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Microsoft Studios' creative director has some choice words about always-online

Haunted

Haunted

Member
I dunno about US employment laws, but it's not too far fetched to think that MS could demote/fire Orth for unintentionally leaking the always online news and causing some real harm to MS' planned marketing push for Durango.

That said, I see no need for us to shoot the (unintentional) messenger, even if he was being kind of a dick about it.
 
G

grimshawish

Banned
Shame hes fired but honestly...we've heard a lot of odd things about this guy and hes not exactly well positioned for the job. It just means someone more reasonable and deserving of the job gets the position.

Still very very telling that this is who MS considers a 'Creative Director' though.
He obviously was not right for a role with the responsibilities and insight it offered; do hope he finds his feet though.

---------

However, it is sad that this guy is out of work yet Gies continues to be subsidised by Polygon/Microsoft for doing not very much whatsoever except shilling.
 
R

Reiko

Banned
EatChildren said:
I firmly believe no company should dictate employment and judge performance based on the behavior of someone's personal life. But this assumes the personal life does not cross streams with the business. Twitter and other social networking services, made entirely public on the most advanced communication network in human existence, are death traps in the hands of people who do not appreciate nor understand the damage they can do. You cannot advertise your position within a company, then argue for your company, in a condescending and rude manner, and expect no repercussions. As soon as you start speaking as a face of a company, you are the face of that company, and will be judged by the company accordingly.

Unfortunate if he lost his job, irrespective of what he said. But he really should have known better.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
S

saunderez

Member
Haunted said:
I dunno about US employment laws, but it's not too far fetched to think that MS could demote/fire Orth for unintentionally leaking the always online news and causing some real harm to MS' planned marketing push for Durango.

That said, I see no need for us to shoot the (unintentional) messenger, even if he was being kind of a dick about it.
Click to expand...
If his Twitter account didn't brag that he was a Creative Director at Microsoft Game Studios then I'm sure it could've been deflected as his personal opinion. But he had to put that there so as far as I'm concerned he was speaking for the company without their authorisation. I don't have my employer on my Twitter, I am not authorised to speak for them, they have PR for that purpose.
 
I

itsgreen

Member
T

test_account

XP-39C²
spirity said:
Here's the thing about this. If I was to read that MSFT intended to run with always online, then they 180'd due to the negative public response, I still don't think I'd want to get a Durango. Just simply knowing that thats what they wanted to do aggravates me. I'm still ticked off about Diablo 3 and SimCity. It might be a bit corny to say this, but if I was to get a Durango I'd feel like I was letting myself down. I know, gamers are sheep, they're fickle, etc etc. Well, I'm not. And I won't allow myself to be like that. My money is essentially a vote, and I'm going to vote with it.

At least, thats how I feel right now, and I don't see that changing. I made a mistake with Diablo 3 and that was entirely on me. But I've stubbornly refused to buy SimCity even though it appeals to me. I don't wish to blow my own trumpet, but I'm proud of that.
Click to expand...
I see what you mean. I guess that we will never know 100% for sure if Microsoft intended to include always online requirement for the games in the first place, if these rumors are false.
 
T

trixx

Member
If this ends up being true then the Xbox lost. My internet disconnects from time to time and even if I had perfect internet I still wouldn't support this. Halo, gow, pgr and the other likely exclusives really isn't that good for me to go out and get this.
 
I

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
EatChildren said:
I firmly believe no company should dictate employment and judge performance based on the behavior of someone's personal life. But this assumes the personal life does not cross streams with the business. Twitter and other social networking services, made entirely public on the most advanced communication network in human existence, are death traps in the hands of people who do not appreciate nor understand the damage they can do. You cannot advertise your position within a company, then argue for your company, in a condescending and rude manner, and expect no repercussions. As soon as you start speaking as a face of a company, you are the face of that company, and will be judged by the company accordingly.

Unfortunate if he lost his job, irrespective of what he said. But he really should have known better.
Click to expand...

I purposely have these kind of "troll" conversations with my friends in private messages on facebook, not on walls or whatever other public means. Even if I'm directly responding to something in their status, I will always use a private message. Too much is out there, best to be like a ghost.
 
P

pargonta

Member
grimshawish said:
Shame hes fired but honestly...we've heard a lot of odd things about this guy and hes not exactly well positioned for the job. It just means someone more reasonable and deserving of the job gets the position.

Still very very telling that this is who MS considers a 'Creative Director' though.
He obviously was not right for a role with the responsibilities and insight it offered; do hope he finds his feet though.

---------

However, it is sad that this guy is out of work yet Gies continues to be subsidised by Polygon/Microsoft for doing not very much whatsoever except shilling.
Click to expand...

all i'm seeing are if statements in here... i don't think he has been fired yet.
 
W

Warrior at Heart

Neo Member
DLC Escalation:

  • 2006: Horse Armor rears its ugly head. Lots of people laugh...lots of people buy it too. Thus begins the saga of DLC.
  • 2007: Beautiful Katamari contains on-disc DLC. EA charge for tutorial videos previously free.
  • 2008-2010: It starts to become obvious content is held back to be released as day 1 DLC. Games become less filled with content and far more filled with purchasable DLC. Outcry does little to stem the tide amidst all the people who do purchase it.
  • 2011-Present: Escalates further: i.e. Dead Space 3s design seems to revolve around strongly encouraging players to purchase DLC.

Always-online DRM Escalation:

  • 2013: Rumour that Durango requires always online to play games or even do anything. Kinect required too. If true, once released people will reluctantly #dealwithit.
  • 2014: Microsoft implements update that uses kinect to detect who is in the room. The more people it detects, the more it'll charge for a movie rental or game. If kinect detects no-one, because it is covered, it outright refuses to do anything.
  • 2015: Escalation: User data compiled will be used to increase subscription charges for those who often have more than one person using a single Durango, detected through Kinect.
  • 2016: Escalation: ????
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
Q7yQnPY.jpg
 
S

Socky

Member
fabricated backlash said:
No, bans would be issued for online play only, they'd still want you exposed to all the advertisement and buyable content.
Click to expand...

Probably, but the point is they could effectively brick your console for however long they like, should they wish to. If they can decide offline customers aren't worth having they can equally decide ban-able customers aren't worth having either. I'm less concerned here about those who deserve a ban than those who are mistakenly handed a ban, as has happened before. It's a small point compared to the main ones discussed here, but still worth bringing up I think.
 
F

fabricated backlash

Member
Can Crusher said:
Honestly, there has to be user error. I've never met anybody who went through more than 2 or 3 rrods.

15? Is the console inside the oven or something?
Click to expand...
15 seems excessive, but even 2 or 3 is unacceptable. The 360 was a POS in terms of hardware reliability, and even if MS doesn't go online only, I'd never get their next console at launch, or several years in and several price cuts after. I've been burned too much by the 360 to go spending money on a MS product anytime soon.
 
semiconscious

semiconscious

Member
GoofsterStud said:
Is this the proper recap:

Guy gets fired "for what he said"
Microsoft doesn't deny their stance
(basically hidden contracts with developers have been made and their is now way out without legal impact)

In conclusion, Microsoft wanted to Lie about the impact and hide it as much as they could... Letting people discover it after the initial purchase. To mitigate day one sales...
Click to expand...

this. & it's mainly all because they initially opted to delay this announcement a little too long for their own good...

whatever 'strategy', or timetable, ms had in place in regards to their console release announcement has proven to be disastrous. & to adamantly continue to stick to their original plan, no matter what, rather than being flexible & willing/able to adapt owing to unforeseen circumstances, is either a sign of hubris, or an indication of corporate paralysis...

or both...
 
D

Dennis

Banned
Warrior at Heart said:
DLC Escalation:

  • 2006: Horse Armor rears its ugly head. Lots of people laugh...lots of people buy it too. Thus begins the saga of DLC.
  • 2007: Beautiful Katamari contains on-disc DLC. EA charge for tutorial videos previously free.
  • 2008-2010: It starts to become obvious content is held back to be released as day 1 DLC. Games become less filled with content and far more filled with purchasable DLC. Outcry does little to stem the tide amidst all the people who do purchase it.
  • 2011-Present: Escalates further: i.e. Dead Space 3s design seems to revolve around strongly encouraging players to purchase DLC.

Always-online DRM Escalation:

  • 2013: Rumour that Durango requires always online to play games or even do anything. Kinect required too. If true, once released people will reluctantly #dealwithit.
  • 2014: Microsoft implements update that uses kinect to detect who is in the room. The more people it detects, the more it'll charge for a movie rental or game. If kinect detects no-one, because it is covered, it outright refuses to do anything.
  • 2015: Escalation: User data compiled will be used to increase subscription charges for those who often have more than one person using a single Durango, detected through Kinect.
  • 2016: Escalation: ????
Click to expand...

 
R

Reiko

Banned
Warrior at Heart said:
DLC Escalation:

  • 2006: Horse Armor rears its ugly head. Lots of people laugh...lots of people buy it too. Thus begins the saga of DLC.
  • 2007: Beautiful Katamari contains on-disc DLC. EA charge for tutorial videos previously free.
  • 2008-2010: It starts to become obvious content is held back to be released as day 1 DLC. Games become less filled with content and far more filled with purchasable DLC. Outcry does little to stem the tide amidst all the people who do purchase it.
  • 2011-Present: Escalates further: i.e. Dead Space 3s design seems to revolve around strongly encouraging players to purchase DLC.

Always-online DRM Escalation:

  • 2013: Rumour that Durango requires always online to play games or even do anything. Kinect required too. If true, once released people will reluctantly #dealwithit.
  • 2014: Microsoft implements update that uses kinect to detect who is in the room. The more people it detects, the more it'll charge for a movie rental or game. If kinect detects no-one, because it is covered, it outright refuses to do anything.
  • 2015: Escalation: User data compiled will be used to increase subscription charges for those who often have more than one person using a single Durango, detected through Kinect.
  • 2016: Escalation: ????
Click to expand...


Video Game Apocalypse = Total Internet meltdown
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
Warrior at Heart said:
DLC Escalation:

  • 2006: Horse Armor rears its ugly head. Lots of people laugh...lots of people buy it too. Thus begins the saga of DLC.
  • 2007: Beautiful Katamari contains on-disc DLC. EA charge for tutorial videos previously free.
  • 2008-2010: It starts to become obvious content is held back to be released as day 1 DLC. Games become less filled with content and far more filled with purchasable DLC. Outcry does little to stem the tide amidst all the people who do purchase it.
  • 2011-Present: Escalates further: i.e. Dead Space 3s design seems to revolve around strongly encouraging players to purchase DLC.

Always-online DRM Escalation:

  • 2013: Rumour that Durango requires always online to play games or even do anything. Kinect required too. If true, once released people will reluctantly #dealwithit.
  • 2014: Microsoft implements update that uses kinect to detect who is in the room. The more people it detects, the more it'll charge for a movie rental or game. If kinect detects no-one, because it is covered, it outright refuses to do anything.
  • 2015: Escalation: User data compiled will be used to increase subscription charges for those who often have more than one person using a single Durango, detected through Kinect.
  • 2016: Escalation: ????
Click to expand...

This is what I've have been thinking about with these cameras. I have a feeling they may use it to identify marketing related information MS can use to make money off of. Average house hold number, average female that watch movies on Xbox D, average female that knows how to use the voice command to use the xbox store, average female that plays the new female focus tested Halo.

You can't hide, you can't play with kinect unplugged, maybe you can cover the lenses though. MS is watching. PS4 is rumored to work without the PS eye though.
 
C

Can Crusher

Banned
fabricated backlash said:
15 seems excessive, but even 2 or 3 is unacceptable. The 360 was a POS in terms of hardware reliability, and even if MS doesn't go online only, I'd never get their next console at launch, or several years in and several price cuts after. I've been burned too much by the 360 to go spending money on a MS product anytime soon.
Click to expand...

The guy even has a slim in there, weren't those supposed to solve the problem?

And yeah of course it's unacceptable, I always thought you needed bad luck to get a console crap on you once and worse luck to crap on you 2. But it being common it's ridiculous.

My fat 60gb, which people say has the biggest chance of crapping out, of all the PS3 hardware is still kicking strong and she has traveled to hot and cold places. PS2 BC, gotta love it.
 
R

Reiko

Banned
Ploid 3.0 said:
This is what I've have been thinking about with these cameras. I have a feeling they may use it to identify marketing related information MS can use to make money off of. Average house hold number, average female that watch movies on Xbox D, average female that knows how to use the voice command to use the xbox store, average female that plays the new female focus tested Halo.
Click to expand...

But... It's an invasion of privacy.
 
F

fabricated backlash

Member
Socky said:
Probably, but the point is they could effectively brick your console for however long they like, should they wish to. If they can decide offline customers aren't worth having they can equally decide ban-able customers aren't worth having either. I'm less concerned here about those who deserve a ban than those who are mistakenly handed a ban, as has happened before. It's a small point compared to the main ones discussed here, but still worth bringing up I think.
Click to expand...
See that just asumes MS is an evil entity doing things out of spite. An offline customer isn't worth having, but keeping a customer in their marketplace is worth it. XBL is already built around keeping you exposed to as much advertisement and content as possible. With an online only console, they bring this model to it's next logical evolution.
 
E

Endo Punk

Member
Let me just get this straight, Im still confused about this "always online" thing. Say it's true does that mean I have to be signed up to XBL in order to play single player games, and if I don't sign in to my account I wont be able to play games that are meant to be enjoyed without online connection like for example Ground Zeros??

If that is the case how can anyone think it's a good idea to have an always online system!?
 
C

Coolwhip

Banned
Ploid 3.0 said:
This is what I've have been thinking about with these cameras. I have a feeling they may use it to identify marketing related information MS can use to make money off of. Average house hold number, average female that watch movies on Xbox D, average female that knows how to use the voice command to use the xbox store, average female that plays the new female focus tested Halo.

You can't hide, you can't play with kinect unplugged, maybe you can cover the lenses though. MS is watching. PS4 is rumored to work without the PS eye though.
Click to expand...

"I have noticed you have been watching porn alone a lot, Michael. May I suggest some nearby escorts? Say Xbox help me to continue"
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
Warrior at Heart said:
DLC Escalation:

  • 2006: Horse Armor rears its ugly head. Lots of people laugh...lots of people buy it too. Thus begins the saga of DLC.
  • 2007: Beautiful Katamari contains on-disc DLC. EA charge for tutorial videos previously free.
  • 2008-2010: It starts to become obvious content is held back to be released as day 1 DLC. Games become less filled with content and far more filled with purchasable DLC. Outcry does little to stem the tide amidst all the people who do purchase it.
  • 2011-Present: Escalates further: i.e. Dead Space 3s design seems to revolve around strongly encouraging players to purchase DLC.

Always-online DRM Escalation:

  • 2013: Rumour that Durango requires always online to play games or even do anything. Kinect required too. If true, once released people will reluctantly #dealwithit.
  • 2014: Microsoft implements update that uses kinect to detect who is in the room. The more people it detects, the more it'll charge for a movie rental or game. If kinect detects no-one, because it is covered, it outright refuses to do anything.
  • 2015: Escalation: User data compiled will be used to increase subscription charges for those who often have more than one person using a single Durango, detected through Kinect.
  • 2016: Escalation: ????
Click to expand...

I posted this yesterday.

I have a friend that works in the industry and he told me months ago that Microsoft's end game is to use the next Xbox as a data compiler. It's just a way for them to read the statistics and figure out how they're going to plaster your gaming space with data fueled ads. Watch your browsing habits, know exactly what you're playing, when you're playing, and for how long, and to see what percentage of time you're using to screw around with apps. It's like a Nielson box, but only for gaming.
Click to expand...

I can't really elaborate, but what you detailed is essentially Microsoft's end game.
 
R

R_thanatos

Member
Endo Punk said:
Let me just get this straight, Im still confused about this "always online" thing. Say it's true does that mean I have to be signed up to XBL in order to play single player games, and if I don't sign in to my account I wont able to play games that are meant to be enjoyed without online connection like for example Ground Zeros??

If that is the case how can anyone think it's a good idea to have an always online system!?
Click to expand...

Nobody does think that it's a good idea . at best you'll get people saying that it won't affect them because they have a perfect online connexion even when they don't realise that they could lose said connexion over any external event.
 
J

jtb

Banned
ThisWreckage said:
I posted this yesterday.



I can't really elaborate, but what you detailed is essentially Microsoft's end game.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with that though? I mean, compiling data is something every big tech company does these days (Netflix, google, Facebook come to mind) and that's a far cry from the anti-consumer always-online. They're probably already doing that.
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
Dennis said:
The end for Microsoft Xbox franchise, why yes.
Click to expand...

This falls in line with their business practices in the past. They want an always online console so they have gobs of statistics at their hands so they can know exactly what to peddle toward you. I wasn't really referring to solely customized ads. If you thought Live ads were ridiculous and intrusive this gen then wait.
 
I

itsgreen

Member
Reiko said:
But... It's an invasion of privacy.
Click to expand...

What I really find troubling is that when Kinect is connected the data is going to an American company, which has to surrender data to the US government, because they like it. Without warrant or anything.

It is a potential webcam for government agencies. And I am by no means a conspiracy theory guy, or anti government person... but that is troubling to me. Especially when it isn't my own government...
 
S

Sinnick

Member
NullPointer said:
We're in complete agreement here.

My take is that they're making their casual pivot while foolishly assuming the gaming audience they garnered will stick with them. If anybody at Microsoft thought the gamer audience was a given for next gen, I hope they see the folly of that now.

They need to raise the bar on the gaming and media fronts.
Click to expand...

Can we really call Microsoft foolish for thinking that? The RROD issue should have relegated the 360 to a distant third place, but it didn't. How many other luxury items can you think of that were straight up defective for a good portion of their life cycle, but still went on to put up respectable sales numbers? The Xbox Live's pricing scheme & consumers' overall tolerance to being nickeled & dimed when it comes to other things also tells Microsoft they can get away with a lot as long as it's introduced to the public properly.

I'm sure someone at Microsoft is like, "OK. They'll continue to buy our console if it's defective, but not if it always connected? o_O"

With that said, I believe Microsoft would love nothing more than to quickly turn Durango into a device that people primarily buy for something other than gaming -- or more specifically AAA gaming. They're just too much work involved in catering to that audience & the companies that serve them.
 
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