FRIDAYTON MK II: 5.5 million bears and salmon create unholy allliance to sack SONY HQ

macewank

Member
Really? Is this even a remote possibility, thuway? You're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I don't see Sony upclocking the PS4's GPU at all...there's too many factors involved here (power, cooling, etc).

they did it with the PSP. there's no reason they can't do it with the PS4 as well.
 

strata8

Member
But the PS4s GPU is also better spec'd than a 7850. Add to that the XO is limited by DDR3, the PS4 benefits from high bandwidth GDDR5. But easy, those differences sound plausible tbh.

Well, barely. The PS4 GPU has 2 more CUs than the 7850 (18 vs. 16) and 5% more TFLOPS. The XB1 GPU has 2 more CUs than the 7770 (12 vs. 10) and 3% less TFLOPS. Bandwidth requirements are also inherently lower with less powerful GPUs - it's why the 7970, 7850, and 7770 achieve 288GB/s, 153GB/s, and 72GB/s respectively.

edit: I thought the 7770 had 8 CUs, not 10. My mistake.
 
They aren't, he's saying, if they did.

He's saying he wouldn't be surprised if they did this.

I just don't think it's a possibility.

Removing an OS footprint? Sure, I can see that.

Upclocking by 200MHz? I don't see that as being a possibility. PSP was an exception that I believe was upclocked because they went extremely conservative on the clock rate due to battery times. I think Sony went with the clock rate that they could for launch, and there was no need to be overly conservative about it (unlike the PSP).
 

TheCloser

Banned
Really? Is this even a remote possibility, thuway? You're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I don't see Sony upclocking the PS4's GPU at all...there's too many factors involved here (power, cooling, etc).

Except it was designed to operate at 2.3 tf but downclocked to allow for the system to grow. While it is unlikely, Sony have done this once with the psp. I'm not expecting it but it is plausible.
 

michael92

Banned
All for instant switching between apps.....SO IMPORTANT.

This console gen is going to be a short one IMO. 6 years tops

Indeed, especially when 4K TV's become mainstream, people will want 4K gaming. Hope we won't have a repeat of PS3/360 with sub-4K resolutions though :D
 

Takuya

Banned
He's saying he wouldn't be surprised if they did this.

I just don't think it's a possibility.

Removing an OS footprint? Sure, I can see that.

Upclocking by 200MHz? I don't see that as being a possibility. PSP was an exception that I believe was upclocked because they went extremely conservative on the clock rate due to battery times. I think Sony went with the clock rate that they could for launch, and there was no need to be overly conservative about it (unlike the PSP).

Not with the current form factor of the PS4, they'd need to increase the airflow and the size of the unit to accommodate a bigger fan.
 
Look at the PSN store. 7 years and it's still a clunky, jerky experience. They couldn't even get background installs done. Don't underestimate Sony when it comes to screwing something easy up.

It's a clunky, jerky experience because they didn't allocate enough ram in the first place. This time they did.
 
Not with the current form factor of the PS4, they'd need to increase the airflow and the size of the unit to accommodate a bigger fan.

Except it was designed to operate at 2.3 tf but downclocked to allow for the system to grow. While it is unlikely, Sony have done this once with the psp. I'm not expecting it but it is plausible.

Wait, is this true? It was designed to operate at 2.3 tf?

I wonder why they decide to downclock it to 800 MHz, there has to be some sort of yield/heating issue.

And Sony can't just upclock the PS4 in two years if it bricks launch consoles.
 
Are we living in a world where the Vita OS doesn't exist or something?

A lot of people don't own a Vita, sadly.

I've always said that Vita is a much more rational benchmark of what to expect from the PS4, compared to the PS3... but alas, people love to look at PS3's poor performance and base that.
 

amr

Banned
The title keeps getting funnier and funnier.

The whole thing's a non-issue, a pseudocontroversy, and the mods have hung a giant banner atop the thread mocking people who think this changes anything at all.

Love it.
 

i-Lo

Member
It's amazing to think that next gen we'll have systems whose sequestered ram for future proofing alone is more than twice of what's available in current gen system and half of what's available on WiiU (classification of RAM type notwithstanding) overall and equal to what's reserved for games.

And yet BF4 is 1080p 60fps on both.

Frame rate was confirmed, not the resolution. It'll be 1080p, whether native or upscaled, is unknown.
 

Satchel

Banned
I am not selling anything short. You want me to clarify?

Xbone's 5GB (slower)- 32mb of slightly faster RAM?

Don't confuse speed and bandwidth. They're not the same.

DDR3 is perfect for OS related stuff. Not as much for gaming, but when you're talking 5GB dedicated, its still pretty good.
 

strata8

Member
Wait, is this true? It was designed to operate at 2.3 tf?

I wonder why they decide to downclock it to 800 MHz, there has to be some sort of yield/heating issue.

And Sony can't just upclock the PS4 in two years if it bricks launch consoles.

It's definitely for yields. Same reason the Jaguar cores are clocked at 1.6 GHz even though they go up to 2 GHz in retail.
 

Finalizer

Member
But the PS4s GPU is also better spec'd than a 7850.

You could say the same for the Xbone's GPU - it's a bit beefier than a stock 7770. (12 CUs vs. a 7770's 10) Also, some 7770s have less VRAM (1 - 2GB), so if the tested card was one with the lesser amount, I could see that having been a bottleneck for those benchmarks.

I suppose it's decent for a very general relative comparison, but the finer points of the graphical capabilities won't really be revealed until we see first-party titles that actually push these systems to their limits (and by that I mean a good while after launch), or if 3rd party games start to take advantage of the PS4's stronger specs (higher resolution, locked at higher FPS, more/better AA), and based on what one of the insiders mentioned, it doesn't sound like they're bothering currently, at least not at the outset.

Still, it's plainly obvious that the PS4 has notably better horsepower either way.
 

nib95

Banned
Well, barely. The PS4 GPU has 2 more CUs than the 7850 (18 vs. 16) and 5% more TFLOPS. The XB1 GPU has 4 more CUs than the 7770 (12 vs. 8) and 3% less TFLOPS. Bandwidth requirements are also inherently lower with less powerful GPUs - it's why the 7970, 7850, and 7770 achieve 288GB/s, 153GB/s, and 72GB/s respectively.

I believe the PS4s GPU has more than just more ROPS compared to the 7850. It also has 130 more stream processes, 8 more texture units, 137GBps more memory bandwidth etc. Oh and lots of unique customisations too.
 

Takuya

Banned
Don't confuse speed and bandwidth. They're not the same.

DDR3 is perfect for OS related stuff. Not as much for gaming, but when you're talking 5GB dedicated, its still pretty good.

This whole RAm thing blew up because of the gaming implications (or lack thereof).
 

i-Lo

Member
I believe the PS4s GPU has more than just more ROPS. It also has 130 more stream processes, 8 more texture units, 137GBps more memory bandwidth etc.

huh?

Also, the biggest change between retail 7850 and what's in PS4 is down 8 ACE and the entire GPU being designed around GPGPU functionality.
 
WAIT! I just realized that this is a different thread from yesterday with over 100 new pages. Yikes.

The fact that this is getting so much attention is hilarious........some of you guys are just too much.
 
One thing pertaining to that "flexible" RAM is that sounds awfully like a shrinking and enlarging OS functionality. So if I am not mistaken the aim is that while not gaming, the OS consumes 3.5GB and on the flip side consumes one GB less while in gaming mode.

Or am I mistaken in that assumption?



I know, I just feel like raging.

Hmm, thats interesting, nice hypothesis. I would actually be happy with "flexible" ram in that case (and the extra 1 gig for the OS transferred to games) since it would be beneficial to the user experience 100% of the time instead of 50% or whatever.
 
It'd be amazing what the next-gen consoles could do if so much of their resources weren't dedicated to everything except videogames.

Maybe they can reduce the needs of the OS as the generation goes on.


They wouldn't be this powerful if they were just for games, they wouldn't be profitable enough to justify the hardware


*pushes over magazine, nay, RAM racks*
 

Satchel

Banned
Sony was trumpeting 8GB GDDR5 and how developers were happy with all that power.

Turns out it's a sham, Sony were being disingenuous and no doubt their OS will be a poor, slow version compared to MS.

Not if they're dedicating up to 2.5GB to it.

This news makes me happy. I want both consoles yo have a snappy OS for the WHOLE generation.
 

strata8

Member
I believe the PS4s GPU has more than just more ROPS. It also has 130 more stream processes, 8 more texture units, 137GBps more memory bandwidth etc.

ROPs are the same (32) between the 7850 and PS4, and the bandwidth difference is 23GB/s, not 137GB/s. The XB1 also has 128 more stream processors (I'm not sure if that's the right name anymore), and 8 more texture units than the 7770. It all scales proportionately with the number of CUs.
 

nib95

Banned
ROPs are the same (32) between the 7850 and PS4, and the bandwidth difference is 23GB/s, not 137GB/s. The XB1 also has 128 more stream processors (I'm not sure if that's the right name anymore), and 8 more texture units than the 7770. It all scales proportionately with the number of CUs.

Sorry meant to say 23GB/s. What's the bandwidth of a 7770's ram compared to the XO?
 

Chobel

Member
You could say the same for the Xbone's GPU - it's a bit beefier than a stock 7770. (12 CUs vs. a 7770's 10) Also, some 7770s have less VRAM (1 - 2GB), so if the tested card was one with the lesser amount, I could see that having been a bottleneck for those benchmarks.

I think 7770 have more VRAM than Xbox1 a lot more, XB1 have only 32MB SDRAM and ddr3 isn't considered VRAM.
 

Chobel

Member
The argument that the 7850 outperforms the 7770 in a PC environment with nearly double the framerate in identical resolutions?

Why haven't we seen this hinted by even one multiplatform developer for these consoles?

Maybe for example PS4 85fps and XBox one 62 fps and because both are locked to 60fps we don't see any difference.
 
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