New Streets of Rage 4 screenshots. Looks like signature Streets of Rage.

dirthead

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This is absolutely ridiculous. This is meant to be a brawler in streets, not a volley ball game. Seeing a fat guy flying around the screen in just plain stupid. It is a boring, repetitive mechanic that makes enemy AI totally useless. Might as well just put the guys there waiting for you to launch them and juggle them to death. Is this Streets of Rage or Tekken Force ?


Pretty much just answered. It is ridiculous, makes the AI useless, is boring and repetitive. In Guardian Heroes the enemies go flying way too easily and way to high, it is honestly a pain having to wait until they fall down again to put some damage. Because when they are flying, they take ridiculously low damage. As well as not being able to recover in any way. So, so stupid.

Do Yakuza games have juggle ? I don't think that you can send enemies flying across the street. It would feel completely stupid, but here in a 2D game, it is supposed to be okay ? Juggle was never a part of SoR and it is fine this way. It will only make moment to moment gameplay boring and needlessly long. A BTA is about managing your way as you are attacked from all sides, you need to think which attack you can launch on which enemy in order to avoid being hit, if you can send everyone flying across the screen, you pretty much kill the core mechanic of the game.

Thanks. I see where you're coming from, but I completely disagree.

You could say ground combos make the enemy AI useless because they stunlock enemies. It's a pretty weak argument IMO.

In terms of it being volleyball, that boils down to a realism argument, and every beat 'em up is absurd in that context. Characters can jump 20 feet in the air, one person can literally beat up an army, etc. Don't think it's a compelling argument.

Here's the thing: beat 'em ups are essentially nothing more than video stress balls that you can squeeze to blow off some steam. They were originally designed to just suck quarters, and it's pretty much impossible to make them challenging without allowing the computer to cheat. They have to have bad AI but be able to cheat, because if they actually good good AI, they'd be impossible to beat because they'd just intelligently gang up on you. This is why a lot of people argue that the whole genre sucks conceptually, because this is just the reality.

Beat 'em ups boil down to one simple thing: is the 5 second loop of kicking the shit out of someone enjoyable to control for 30 to 40 minutes? If yes, it's good, if no, it's not. It's also why these games live and die by the cooperative multiplayer and why people seem to think Konami's X-Men and TMNT are masterpieces even though the gameplay in them is trash and they're basically button mashers. Playing almost anything with 4+ players is fun. It's like pizza and sex; even when it's bad it's good. And for the record, the gameplay in SOR2 is garbage. The game's normals are so easily abused that you can essentially stunlock anyone, the AI's terrible, waiting for enemies that get knocked off screen is boring, etc. The only reason we're having this conversation is because SOR1 and SOR2 had good music. It's literally the entire franchise. The series is literally nothing without the music. Even if people don't admit it, the games would be worthless without it. People's response to SOR3 pretty much illustrates this. When music in a SOR game blows, mysteriously the rest of the game isn't so charming anymore.

That's why it's going to be a complete joke if this new one doesn't have a good soundtrack.

Also, if you know how to play Guardian Heroes, you're not waiting for anything. Every character can pretty much fly if you know how to control them. You're not waiting for people to fall. You're catching them in air BEFORE they fall.

You do more waiting in SOR2 than Guardian Heroes. In Guardian Heroes, enemies can't get knocked off the camera, so they're always in the view port. In SOR2 enemies can just fall off the camera, so you spend half the time playing waiting for them to walk back on the screen. It's a much slower paced game than GH.
 
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cireza

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You could say ground combos make the enemy AI useless because they stunlock enemies.
With juggles, they are what I hate the most in BTA and Fighting games. If fighting is about knowing which attack should be used at which moment, with small attacks landing fast, and big ones doing lots of damage but being slow, having combos and juggles in a nonsense. If whatever small attack can lead to an uninterrupted combo that allows enormous damage or instant kill, then something is wrong. No sense of risk vs reward whatsoever.

Don't think it's a compelling argument.
It still looks absolutely stupid.

Beat 'em ups boil down to one simple thing: is the 5 second loop of kicking the shit out of someone enjoyable to control for 30 to 40 minutes? If yes, it's good, if no, it's not. It's also why these games live and die by the cooperative multiplayer and why people seem to think Konami's X-Men and TMNT are masterpieces even though the gameplay in them is trash and they're basically button mashers. Playing almost anything with 4+ players is fun. It's like pizza and sex; even when it's bad it's good. And for the record, the gameplay in SOR2 is garbage. The game's normals are so easily abused that you can essentially stunlock anyone, the AI's terrible, waiting for enemies that get knocked off screen is boring, etc. The only reason we're having this conversation is because SOR1 and SOR2 had good music. It's literally the entire franchise. The series is literally nothing without the music. Even if people don't admit it, the games would be worthless without it. People's response to SOR3 pretty much illustrates this. When music in a SOR game blows, mysteriously the rest of the game isn't so charming anymore.
I disagree a lot with what you say here. Arcade BTA were meant for you to put coins. TMNT and X-Men have floaty gameplay, exagerated frames of invincibility for the enemies and awful hit-boxes. However, as far as home consoles go, BTA were much more refined gameplay wise, with tight gameplay, precise controls, much better hit-boxes and more elaborated AI. They can offer a good challenge as well as being very fun, even when playing alone. This includes the 3 Streets of Rage games (the third one had some great new attacks and possibilities and is just as good as the two others), Golden Axe 3 (which also has a great variety of attacks as well as branching paths) or Final Fight CD. TMNT on SNES/MD had much tighter gameplay than in the arcade, especially on MegaDrive. Too bad this game is so easy. TMNT3 on NES is also a very good BTA, very challenging.

Also, if you know how to play Guardian Heroes, you're not waiting for anything. Every character can pretty much fly if you know how to control them. You're not waiting for people to fall. You're catching them in air BEFORE they fall.
As I already said, you are going to wait because in the air you don't do meaningful damage.

You do more waiting in SOR2 than Guardian Heroes. In Guardian Heroes, enemies can't get knocked off the camera, so they're always in the view port. In SOR2 enemies can just fall off the camera, so you spend half the time playing waiting for them to walk back on the screen. It's a much slower paced game than GH.
I don't see the problem here. Not every game needs to be absurdly fast. SoR3 is much faster by the way.
 
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molasar

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Why does everyone seem to hate juggling?

Guardian Heroes is one of the most beloved games in this genre and had juggling. Seriously, what the hell?
I like juggling as long as it is somehow limited that you can not drain life bar of the enemy completely on your own with it first go.
Though my number one beat'em up game is still Capcom's AvP with its mechanics, broken or not.


 

dirthead

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As I already said, you are going to wait because in the air you don't do meaningful damage.

You actually want to juggle enemies in the air because it's how you farm experience and get absurdly overpowered, which lets you do even more damage and move even faster.
 

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I’d just like to state for the record that Bare Knuckle 3 was my favorite in the series. Sega of America wreckd SoR3 with the gender-neutral colors, removal of cut scenes and the considerably harder difficulty. True, this was considered necessary as rentals were eating into sales (especially when cartridge games were creeping obove $70), but the flow of the game was ruined.

BK3 is much faster and more fluid, it’s quicker on its feet and the villains but up a much better fight. Scenes like the bulldozer attack adds some variety and there are some really impressive stage designs, including the night club. I never cared much for Dr. Zan, but at least he was different, and it was fun to play as the kangaroo.

If Sega had any brains, they would patch BK3 so that SoR3 was fully restored. Fat chance of that happening. Oh, well.
 
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olimariOA

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This needs what a lot of modern digital anime needs.
TEXTURE.

These things tend to look cleaner than what we are used to with pixel art and hand drawn animation.
Some sketch lines and some film grain would go a long way to improving the overall look.
 

dirthead

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This needs what a lot of modern digital anime needs.
TEXTURE.

These things tend to look cleaner than what we are used to with pixel art and hand drawn animation.
Some sketch lines and some film grain would go a long way to improving the overall look.

That's because it costs money to animate detailed cartoons. There's a reason that they're mostly just thick lines and solid colors.
 
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Nice clean look. But the characters all have a stubby look to them. Looks like Axel ate a truckload of steroids and Blaze got thunder thighs. The fat guy enemy looks spot on.
 
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olimariOA

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Even just some optional post effects would be great.
-film grain
-scanlines

This is quick and dirty, but this appeals to me much more.


And GIF
 

olimariOA

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That's because it costs money to animate detailed cartoons. There's a reason that they're mostly just thick lines and solid colors.

Post effects like film grain are essentially free.
There are also tools to make those clean black lines look sketchy at no extra cost to time.

I think it's just a shift in what younger people like in their animation. I know many young people who LOVE the clean digital look.
 

cireza

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You actually want to juggle enemies in the air because it's how you farm experience and get absurdly overpowered, which lets you do even more damage and move even faster.
Farming experience in a BTA. You see, there is already a problem here. Juggling enemies for hours is not how I wish to spend my time playing a BTA.

By the way, in Guardian Heroes you gain the most experience by using all your spells.

olimariOA olimariOA : why make everything blurry when we can have sharp visuals ?
 
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dirthead

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Farming experience in a BTA. You see, there is already a problem here. Juggling enemies for hours is not how I wish to spend my time playing a BTA.

By the way, in Guardian Heroes you gain the most experience by using all your spells.

It doesn't take hours. You need to do combos to replenish mana to use spells.
 

MayauMiao

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Looks so much better in motion though, anyone in doubt should check out gameplay footage, that feels so right even if stills can look off given the art style decision isn't really in the same spirit (that would be like comparing old pixel art masterpiece fighting games like Garou: Mark of the Wolves and Street Fighter III 3rd Impact to a game like Skullgirls or something I guess, they each do what they do real well).

They should get rid of the jacket for Axel and Blaze.
 

dirthead

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They should get rid of the jacket for Axel and Blaze.

Good insight. They've got crap silhouettes and bad color identification. In all good beat 'em ups, the heroes and bad guys have unique identifiable silhouettes. In this game, they all kind of blur together. The art design in this game isn't very good.
 
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Thiagosc777

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Action games have evolved since the Final Fight days in the early 90s. Who is this for? People with nostalgia for Streets of Rage or new players? I wish they modernized the gameplay and created a modern version of it. I really don't feel like playing games that just copy something that existed before.
 
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Al3x1s

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Action games have evolved since the Final Fight days in the early 90s. Who is this for? People with nostalgia for Streets of Rage or new players? I wish they modernized the gameplay and created a modern version of it. I really don't feel like playing games that just copy something that existed before.
Looks like a sequel to me, if it ends up good or bad remains to be seen but that's what it looks like. What games do you feel are real successors to the likes of SOR gameplay wise? Musou games? Bayonetta? Devil May Cry? They're all different to me, nothing beats a good beat 'em up, the genre died rather than evolve, it was in top shape at that era anyway. That's like saying shmups live through 3D combat flight sims or something. They don't (thankfully we get more good shmups than beat em ups these days still at least).
 
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Thiagosc777

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Looks like a sequel to me, if it ends up good or bad remains to be seen but that's what it looks like. What games do you feel are real successors to the likes of SOR gameplay wise? Musou games? Bayonetta? Devil May Cry? They're all different to me, nothing beats a good beat 'em up, the genre died rather than evolve, it was in top shape at that era anyway. That's like saying shmups live through 3D combat flight sims or something. They don't (thankfully we get more good shmups than beat em ups these days still at least).

Devil May Cry was an evolution in 3D of these 2D fighting games. But they should create a new Streets of Rage in 3D with new gameplay, but still true to what the series was about. As it is, it looks like a copy of Streets of Rage 3 with cartoony graphics.
 

silentstorm

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Fight'N Rage
Exactly what came to mind, really love that game and genuinely think it's better than many classics in the genre(though i still prefer some games).

Good for people who want a beat'em up while they wait for Streets Of Rage 4 and want something new that isn't Castle Crashers.

There is also Full Metal Furies, from the guys behind Rogue Legacy, which really did seem to go unnoticed due to lack of promotion, but the battles in that game tend to feel more slow and there are a lot of puzzles...sure the puzzles are optional but they unlock stuff and give more story so one ends up wanting to make them turning the game into a Beat'Em Up/Puzzle Game ala The Witness?

Don't know if people will care about that even if the puzzles are optional.

As for the art style, i don't mind it really.
Action games have evolved since the Final Fight days in the early 90s. Who is this for? People with nostalgia for Streets of Rage or new players? I wish they modernized the gameplay and created a modern version of it. I really don't feel like playing games that just copy something that existed before.
People who like beat'em up games as they still exist?

Same reason why indie developers bring back old genres or still do something like platformers and metroidvanias with 2D graphics, they just really like the genre and want to make a new game in it, and are catering to an audience that also wants to play those but don't want to replay an old game for the 1000th time and want something new while still being familiar.

Sure, i could play Final Fight for the 100th time, same goes for Knights Of The Round...or i could play a new game with new music, characters, moves and things to experience for the first time again with Fight N'Rage.

True, a lot of times the games don't compare to the classics or may look lazy...but at times they still feel better than a lot of old games and you do get the developers that actually care, put a good deal of effort, have good art styles or use the self-imposed limitations to make a game with a good art style and design that is still really fun to play.

I mean, Shovel Knight is 8-Bit and it still looks great, Fight N'Rage also doesn't look too bad, Hollow Knight looks great and etc.

And you get those cases of really damn good games that can stand up to the classics, like, i really freaking love ZeroRanger, a recent Shmup(think Gradius) where the developer wanted to make a game revolving around a limited palette:

Which they use for great effect in terms of art design and look much better in motion, and make a fun and fast game that isn't just another bullet hell shooter.

The game just excels in every way particularly the music and doesn't fail to add some quality of life features and twists you don't see in some classic games of the genre, hell, the limited palette even serves to give this game it's own distinctive look and tone.

And honestly, not everyone got tired of the old genres or don't think a game has to constantly innovate to be worth playing, and even the most innovative games tend to copy things that came before, some people just like to play games they find interesting or fun.

And a lot of people find Streets Of Rage interesting and fun, hell, the games are so awesome i have met people who can't stand beat'em ups but still really love Streets Of Rage, so there is a reason for developers to bring back the series, and since people like the old games, may as well do that, though i guess they could do something like a Yakuza kind of game focusing only on fighting.

Probably doesn't help that many 3D beat'em ups just aren't that good or attempts at making them 3D failed horribly, Final Fight:Streetwise is wildly hated and pratically considered the worst game in the franchise and it's the 3D beat'em up game, i feel like they are being wise by playing it safe.
 
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Al3x1s

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Devil May Cry was an evolution in 3D of these 2D fighting games.
Nah, it wasn't. I don't know if that was the intention but the feeling is totally different.

If I had to name 3D successors to beat 'em ups that would be games like SpikeOut. Few are making those still and they're different enough to co-exist like 2D and 3D Zeldas co exist if studios want to do any. Still, I was so damn sad we didn't get a Dreamcast port of this game in the end, I would have loved to have it in my home back in the day, it looked like the coolest shit ever to me, haha. It's a beautiful thing.

And then Yakuza took many of its elements but Yakuza is also a different type of game, I'd totally play a SpikeOut sequel that didn't have any of the Yakuza fluff and was designed around that constant flow of combat with no breaks or RPG stuff just as I totally play new Yakuza games and enjoy them for what they are too. I suppose Die Hard Arcade/Dynamite Cop are another 3D take on beat 'em ups and they even remain far more faithful to the 2D format but with 3D graphics. I'd love a new Die Hard Arcade and a new Dynamite Cop, even if they're actually the same series I also think they're different to each other.

But they should create a new Streets of Rage in 3D with new gameplay, but still true to what the series was about. As it is, it looks like a copy of Streets of Rage 3 with cartoony graphics.
I like 2D, 2D games should still exist, both hand drawn and pixel art, SD and HD, based on whatever resources and talent the given team has to employ.

This looks true to the series, hopefully it's good and remains good throughout the adventure with nice enemy variety, fighting styles, bosses, stages and so on, all new and unlike replaying SoR1-3 yet again.
 
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Thiagosc777

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This looks true to the series, hopefully it's good and remains good throughout the adventure with nice enemy variety, fighting styles, bosses, stages and so on, all new and unlike replaying SoR1-3 yet again.

This doesn't look true to the series, it looks like a carbon copy. Ninja Gaiden is an example of a 2D game that successfully transitioned into 3D with an interesting new gameplay and it still kept its style.
 
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Al3x1s

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Nah, it doesn't look like a copy, it looks like a sequel. New story, stages, enemies, graphics, moves, gameplay changes & additions. Hopefully it's good but I don't quite trust DotEmu.

I mean if you're gonna be pedantic then SoR3 is a SoR2 copy with new story, stages, enemies, graphics, moves, gameplay changes & additions, officially sanctioned. That's what sequels are I guess. Battle Circuit is a copy cos that's what other games in a genre are, lol. Yes, we can deconstruct everything in that manner but still I love playing Battle Circuit and SoR, different experiences in a similar style.

Besides, games like this are so few and far between people even appreciate rom hacks, fan games, whatever else that adds new enemies and stages and such too. We want more of the good stuff so we don't have to endlessly replay the same exact thing but bring back the feeling of first playing and then mastering that great thing with the new challenges and content within the same quality and fun framework, whatever form that takes, be it a sequel from the original team, an officially sanctioned sequel from wholly different folks, a fan game (in the case of River City Ransom: Underground fan game and officially sanctioned sequel at once), a rom hack, whatever, if it's good we'll play it and enjoy it. You can simply move on though, that's fine too, I'm not one to tell you what to play and if it should exist at all.

Nothing about 3D Ninja Gaiden keeps the original style to me. Same for the 3D Shinobi games on PS2. 3D Ninja Gaiden is better but being flipping amazing on its own doesn't make it true to the original.

The TakeOver looks great too, not because it's using models to generate the sprites from so it can be considered 3D in some ways but because it's another cool take on that similar framework that I enjoy.

I'm thinking The TakeOver will end up being the better game being a passion project but progress seems slow at times and I won't dismiss SoR4 yet, both could be worth playing for different reasons. And after (if) he's done with The TakeOver I'll still want him to make a sequel to that or a wholly different game with a new story, stages, enemies, graphics, moves, gameplay changes & additions so I don't have to only replay The TakeOver. Beat 'em ups rock and I can't get enough of them (the good ones that are to my liking obviously, haha, I won't play just anything and I even dislike praised series like Final Fight).
 
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Wonko_C

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If modern Ninja Gaiden was released with another name and the main guy wasn't named Ryu Hayabusa no one would think it was related to the old games. Even in Japan they kept the western name instead of calling them Ninja Ryukenden. I like the new NG more than the old ones, but they're nothing alike.
 
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olimariOA

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Farming experience in a BTA. You see, there is already a problem here. Juggling enemies for hours is not how I wish to spend my time playing a BTA.

By the way, in Guardian Heroes you gain the most experience by using all your spells.

olimariOA olimariOA : why make everything blurry when we can have sharp visuals ?

I probably overdid the lens blur on the background, but simulating some kind of depth effect to accentuate the characters would be nice.
The problem with everything being in crisp focus is that scenes tend to look overly busy.
 

ultrazilla

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olimariOA-Excellent mock ups! It's exactly what I was thinking. It was missing some film grain or crt effects/lines.
I would have preferred proper pixel art like the previous entries but if it means we get part 4, I guess it'll do with the cell shaded look.
Hopefully we'll get screen filter options in the final game. Cheers!
 
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SegaShack

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I thought I'd share a few Streets of Rage 2 photos for comparison. These were shot on my Genesis which was connected to a Sony Trinitron via RF cable.

The Genesis looks much better on RF than Composite, but S-video looks quite good if you get your console modded.
I think you should get better shielded or new composite cables. RF is much worse than composite. However if you switch to RGB, Genesis truly shines.
 
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nkarafo

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You know what else they could remove from all these modern fighting, beat em ups, etc?

The freaking explosion effects.

You don't need to see a super nova explosion on somebody's face every time you punch him. It looks tiresome after 1 minute and 30 seconds.

God, i think back in the day hardware limitations was actually a good thing that helped developers to hold themselves a bit and focus on the important stuff.
 
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cireza

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The problem with everything being in crisp focus is that scenes tend to look overly busy.
When we played on CRT TVs back then everything was perfectly crisp and sharp, and we were fine with it. This is really a matter of personal preferences.

There are other ways to make the characters and enemies more visible, such as using mainly one/two/three colors and their gradients for the entire background, for example.
 
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dirthead

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Action games have evolved since the Final Fight days in the early 90s. Who is this for? People with nostalgia for Streets of Rage or new players? I wish they modernized the gameplay and created a modern version of it. I really don't feel like playing games that just copy something that existed before.

Really, there's nothing you can do in Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Yazuka, Fist of the North Star, Spikeout, or any modern 3D beat 'em up that you couldn't do better in Guardian Heroes. I can say with complete confidence that they haven't gone anywhere since 1996.
 
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Al3x1s

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You know what else they could remove from all these modern fighting, beat em ups, etc?

The freaking explosion effects.

You don't need to see a super nova explosion on somebody's face every time you punch him. It looks tiresome after 1 minute and 30 seconds.

God, i think back in the day hardware limitations was actually a good thing that helped developers to hold themselves a bit and focus on the important stuff.
I think they're just using the special moves constantly in the trailer and normal punches don't do that. Well I'm sure there's gonna be a hit effect but not that crazy. I still like the exaggerated stuff in The TakeOver.

I don't like the hit effects in Tekken (except that blood-like puff in T3) but iirc these days that's customizable, though I dunno if it can be disabled altogether there are proably some more tame visuals.

Still on the other hand virtua fighter which didn't have such flashy stuff looked boring in comparison to some people and didn't manage to regain the crown past the 90s (personally I loved it all).

Everyone loves fireworks and stuff with the climax being the super move induced KOs in SF games and games that take after that style.
 
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dirthead

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I think they're just using the special moves constantly in the trailer and normal punches don't do that. Well I'm sure there's gonna be a hit effect but not that crazy. More like The TakeOver's.

I don't like the hit effects in Tekken (except that blood-like puff in T3) but iirc these days that's customizable, though I dunno if it can be disabled altogether there are proably some more tame visuals.

Still on the other hand virtua fighter which didn't have such flashy stuff looked boring to some people and didn't manage to regain the crown past the 90s (personally I loved it all).

It's one of the things I like better about Final Fight really. Even the Genesis SOR games had that issue. The magical special moves with flames/chi coming out of people's arms never really felt right in the context of a non fantasy beat 'em up especially when the bad guys don't seem to have equivalent powers. It's really obvious how influenced the SOR people were by Street Fighter 2. They were dead set on putting SF2 style moves in a beat 'em up, but I think they kind of overdid it.

I like how comparatively grounded Final Fight is. People just punch kick and throw.
 

silentstorm

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Question, have we gotten any answer on who is making the music yet?

Because music is very important to me in games, but damn me if a soundtrack isn't important to a Streets Of Rage game, that's a series from which one pratically expects a really damn excellent soundtrack.

As for the flash effects...i genuinely never even paid attention to those, to a point where i don't even have an opinion about them, i guess i just look at Streets Of Rage being an universe where you can fight a boxing kangaroo and accept that fighters have some minor chi thing going on.

Either that or they just feel like something of a comic or manga series to designate impact and make the attacks feel more powerful.

...I really don't have any opinion because i literally never cared enough to think about effects in any beat'em up game, don't know what that says about me really.
 

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I think you should get better shielded or new composite cables. RF is much worse than composite. However if you switch to RGB, Genesis truly shines.


On the Sega Genesis, Composite looks absolutely terrible. I would agree with RGB or S-video, which looks the best, but that requires modding and a TV with suitable plugs (my Trinitron only has RF and Composite). That said, RF on a picture tube TV looks fine, at least for Genesis. I don't get why nobody around here seems to grok that. It's really not that bad, honest!
 

molasar

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On the Sega Genesis, Composite looks absolutely terrible. I would agree with RGB or S-video, which looks the best, but that requires modding and a TV with suitable plugs (my Trinitron only has RF and Composite). That said, RF on a picture tube TV looks fine, at least for Genesis. I don't get why nobody around here seems to grok that. It's really not that bad, honest!

I remember times when we as kids did not care about a connection method of console to a TV set as long there was not any sound and picture noise. Not to mention a lack of knowledge on a dithering effect.
 
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SegaShack

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On the Sega Genesis, Composite looks absolutely terrible. I would agree with RGB or S-video, which looks the best, but that requires modding and a TV with suitable plugs (my Trinitron only has RF and Composite). That said, RF on a picture tube TV looks fine, at least for Genesis. I don't get why nobody around here seems to grok that. It's really not that bad, honest!
Which Model are you talking about? Or do you mean all?
 
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Klart

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I might have preferred a more classic pixelated look, but the more I see the more I like it. The last moving images look really great. It does look like it plays like classic Streets of Rage & it has that same “I’m a tough MF whose gonna beat up some street punks” vibe.
 
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Still many better ways they could have done Axel. He just looks so...wide.

Meanwhile they got Blaze perfect.
 
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Viliger

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Feb 2, 2015
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I repeat my question again - can I see flash games with sprite and animation quality of this game and Hollow Knight? Kinda getting tired from armchair artists here.
Action games have evolved since the Final Fight days in the early 90s. Who is this for? People with nostalgia for Streets of Rage or new players? I wish they modernized the gameplay and created a modern version of it. I really don't feel like playing games that just copy something that existed before.
This is what happens when someone who has no experience with the genre tries to express their opinion on things he doesn't know about. Go play Fight'n'Rage and SoR Remake, you will see what this genre has to offer.
 

Thiagosc777

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This is what happens when someone who has no experience with the genre tries to express their opinion on things he doesn't know about. Go play Fight'n'Rage and SoR Remake, you will see what this genre has to offer.

Oh, we have an expert! Haha

Hey kid, I am an old man. I was there when Final Fight was new. I played it in the arcades, and all other console games like Streets of Rage. Or even before those existed, Double Dragon, etc. I know exactly what I am talking about.
 

Viliger

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Hey kid, I am an old man. I was there when Final Fight was new. I played it in the arcades, and all other console games like Streets of Rage. Or even before those existed, Double Dragon, etc. I know exactly what I am talking about.
You are judging entire genre on games that has been surpassed. It's like judging character action (that you said is an evolution of beat'em ups btw) as a genre on DMC1. I gave you the list, "old man", you should try it sometime. You can also try DnD games or late Capcom titles, such as Captain Commando and Knights of the Round.
 

Belmonte

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Nov 6, 2018
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Here's the thing: beat 'em ups are essentially nothing more than video stress balls that you can squeeze to blow off some steam. They were originally designed to just suck quarters, and it's pretty much impossible to make them challenging without allowing the computer to cheat. They have to have bad AI but be able to cheat, because if they actually good good AI, they'd be impossible to beat because they'd just intelligently gang up on you. This is why a lot of people argue that the whole genre sucks conceptually, because this is just the reality.

Beat 'em ups boil down to one simple thing: is the 5 second loop of kicking the shit out of someone enjoyable to control for 30 to 40 minutes? If yes, it's good, if no, it's not. It's also why these games live and die by the cooperative multiplayer and why people seem to think Konami's X-Men and TMNT are masterpieces even though the gameplay in them is trash and they're basically button mashers.

To me, if there is a character cheating is the player character. It has the priority in most cases and very low startup and recovery frames.

I agree with you that sucking quarters are what arcade beat em up games were about most of the time, but this is more about arcade games in general than beat em ups. Console ports gave the player a fair number of continues and, in cases were they were made to be played at home, like Streets of Rage, they were entirely fair.

Beat em ups are much more than stress balls. There is a logic behind the gameplay: you need to manage the number of foes to not be overwhelmed, need to priorize dangerous enemies within each situation taking into account their speed, health, range, skills and location, need to master the range of your own attacks to get the advantage. They are not musou games where you can just smash the buttons to win.

I don't mean to say it is your case but I think this "beat em ups are brainless" perception is more about most people playing then with infinite continues, which trivializes the gameplay, then the genre sucking conceptually.
 
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