• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Rain World - Hunt prey, evade predators, survive as a Slugcat (March 28th, PS4/PC)

Status
Not open for further replies.
M

More_Badass

Member
Granjinha said:
oh man i found something really cool and weird and i think it's from the narrative? really wanted to ask a dev what TO DO NOW OMG

but ok gonna go back and do something that i probably shouldn't...
Click to expand...
They seem pretty approachable on Twitter. Chris Priestman asked them for a tip a few days ago
 
L

lvl99 Pixel

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
It's nature, baby. Cute things die horrifically, suck it up.
Click to expand...

its a videogame aka art, ie. entirely for gratification. its not the discovery channel.
dont need any more reminders about fucked up shit happening in reality, had more than enough of that and seeing a therapist for it.

If someones not into that you need to respect it, like i respect why people would enjoy it too.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
Altairax15 said:
its a videogame aka art, ie. entirely for gratification. its not the discovery channel.
dont need any more reminders about fucked up shit happening in reality, had more than enough of that and seeing a therapist for it.

If someones not into that you need to respect it, like i respect why people would enjoy it too.
Click to expand...

ummmmmm, that comment was in jest. Pls don't hurt me

On the other hand you did ask to play as the kid from Inside instead, as if that's better somehow [face_confused.jif]

Either way, I don't think it's a mistake that the cute little woefully underpowered slugcat protagonist left to fend for itself in a world of aggressive predators dies in unflinching fashion. The sound design, the animations, the slugcat's design juxtaposed with the way it's treated, etc. all point to "unease" as a major component of Rain World's atmosphere. I don't "enjoy" watching it get killed, you're not supposed to.

And funny you mention the discovery channel. I'm confident nature docs are an integral part of what drives the gameplay loop and AI design in this game.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
ummmmmm, that comment was in jest. Pls don't hurt me

On the other hand you did ask to play as the kid from Inside instead, as if that's better somehow [face_confused.jif]

Either way, I don't think it's a mistake that the cute little woefully underpowered slugcat protagonist left to fend for itself in a world of aggressive predators dies in unflinching fashion. The sound design, the animations, the slugcat's design juxtaposed with the way it's treated, etc. all point to "unease" as a major component of Rain World's atmosphere. I don't "enjoy" watching it get killed, you're not supposed to.

And funny you mention the discovery channel. I'm confident nature docs are an integral part of what drives the AI in this game.
Click to expand...
It's interesting that the predator-prey visuals have such a brutal natural vibe because he was going for a more stylized cartoony vibe, but the physics and animations and AI kind of molded the game to how it is now.

Funnily enough, the slugcat design was just placeholder. It never was the plan to keep it as the main character
I'm usually hesitant to talk about art stuff (if it can be said with words, why the art?) but I guess I should explain what's going on here. I'm not making a horror game, but I'm trying to portray a world that is very harsh, and where survival has to be fought for. There is a twist though, that instead of realistic harshness I want it to be harsh, but in a slightly twisted, cartoony way.

Weird little creatures that you don't really know what's going on in their heads fit the game medium, because things will inevitably move a little jerky, behave a little uncanny. Better to play with this than fight against it.

Rain World is not a horror game, there won't be excessive amounts of blood or violence for the sake of it. I will however do my best to convey a very different world, where strange creatures live and hunt, and if aspects of this are creepy, I'll go with that.
Click to expand...
That was from way back in 2012
 
L

lvl99 Pixel

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
On the other hand you did ask to play as the kid from Inside instead, as if that's better somehow [face_confused.jif]
Click to expand...

yeah, i dont have a kid thats died in a traumatic way or maybe that wouldnt be better...
The game looks really neat though, and less fucked up than Snowflakes Chance which was definitely designed with that kind of appeal. Many games I cant play any more because of these kinds of themes, but thats entirely on me.

doomguy killing hordes of demons because they killed his bunny though, doomguy is my spirit animal

More_Badass said:
It's interesting that the predator-prey visuals have such a brutal natural vibe because he was going for a more stylized cartoony vibe, but the physics and animations and AI kind of molded the game to how it is now.

Funnily enough, the slugcat design was just placeholder. It never was the plan to keep it as the main character

That was from way back in 2012
Click to expand...

so its like Five nights at Freddys where the characters looked creepy so they just ran with it
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
More_Badass said:
It's interesting that the predator-prey visuals have such a brutal natural vibe because he was going for a more stylized cartoony vibe, but the physics and animations and AI kind of molded the game to how it is now.

Funnily enough, the slugcat design was just placeholder. It never was the plan to keep it as the main character

That was from way back in 2012
Click to expand...

Yeah I think once you make the decision to go with weighty procedural animations, aggressive predator designs, and the kind of presentation + sound design I've seen so far, the only "stylized cartoony vibe" you're capturing at that point is trippy dark animation from like the 70s or something.

Altairax15 said:
yeah, i dont have a kid thats died in a traumatic way or maybe that wouldnt be better...
The game looks really neat though, and less fucked up than Snowflakes Chance which was definitely designed with that kind of appeal. Many games I cant play any more because of these kinds of themes, but thats entirely on me.

doomguy killing hordes of demons because they killed his bunny though, doomguy is my spirit animal
Click to expand...

Heh. I mean, I get it, but I don't see Rain World as some kind of gratuitously violent thing. It moves like a real time predator/prey scenario from a nature documentary, and like those, the point isn't to revel in the kill, but accept that nature just is. The difference here that we're directly in control of an animal that's fairly low on the power level chart, so we connect to it more despite the game's world being completely indifferent to what's happening, as it should be.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
The difference here that we're directly in control of an animal that's fairly low on the power level chart, so we connect to it more despite the game's world being completely indifferent to what's happening, as it should be.
Click to expand...
Quite literally. The world acts independently of you. And when you die, the game doesn't fade to black; instead it follows your killer as it travels across screens to a den or gets into fights or gets killed itself.

I'm glad they kept that from the alpha. Some of the coolest stuff happens after you die and you just get to observe the world in action.
FakeSimplisticIndianhare.gif
Click to expand...
Not dead here, but you get the idea. Captured that from an old alpha
 
L

lvl99 Pixel

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
Heh. I mean, I get it, but I don't see Rain World as some kind of gratuitously violent kind of thing. It moves like a real time predator/prey scenario from a nature documentary, and like those, the point isn't to revel in the kill, but accept that nature just is. The difference here that we're directly in control of an animal that's fairly low on the power level chart, so we connect to it more despite the game's world being completely indifferent to what's happening, as it should be.
Click to expand...

its entirely fictional, and I have the choice to not play something that makes me feel bad ;)
I didnt say it was gratuitous, quite the contrary. "just accept nature" doesn't really make sense when its a sentient slug cat carrying a spear around like a person. Its entirely fiction for the purpose of enjoyment, which is completely subjective. Not really any point arguing.

I only brought it up because it otherwise looks fascinating to me.
For the record Ori and the Blind Forest is one of my favorite games, but they made the decision to just have you turn into light and respawn.
 
N

Net_Wrecker

Member
Altairax15 said:
its entirely fictional, and I have the choice to not play something that makes me feel bad ;)
I didnt say it was gratuitous, quite the contrary. "just accept nature" doesn't really make sense when its a sentient slug cat carrying a spear around like a person. Its entirely fiction for the purpose of enjoyment, which is completely subjective. Not really any point arguing.

I only brought it up because it otherwise looks fascinating to me.
For the record Ori and the Blind Forest is one of my favorite games, but they made the decision to just have you turn into light and respawn.
Click to expand...

That's fine. If it makes you uncomfortable, I understand.

And yeah, Ori is the other side of the coin. Very different internal worldview and presentation, and I get being more into that. Like More_Badass posted above, the fact that Rain World doesn't flinch from what's happening inherently gives this a different vibe to other games of this type. This is where the cinematic platformer DNA comes through, showing you the consequences in order to ground the world. At the same time, I like that it doesn't seem to play up the kills/deaths either. These things simply happen because that's what happens in this weird industrial animal ecosystem.
 
B

bosseye

Member
Looks amazing. I'm absolutely buying this on PS4 whenever it drops. Love the aesthetic, the animation, the things I've heard about the AI, everything.

I wonder what Caldwell's issues with the controls are? Checkpointing is easy to get wrong too, so hopefully it's not too irritating.
 
P

Pachimari

Member
More_Badass said:
Quite literally. The world acts independently of you. And when you die, the game doesn't fade to black; instead it follows your killer as it travels across screens to a den or gets into fights or gets killed itself.

I'm glad they kept that from the alpha. Some of the coolest stuff happens after you die and you just get to observe the world in action.

Not dead here, but you get the idea. Captured that from an old alpha
Click to expand...

But when you die, besides observing, are we supposed to quit and start a new game then?

Also what are we gonna do with the pups? Will we have to guard them and feed them?
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
Altairax15 said:
its a videogame aka art, ie. entirely for gratification. its not the discovery channel.
dont need any more reminders about fucked up shit happening in reality, had more than enough of that and seeing a therapist for it.

If someones not into that you need to respect it, like i respect why people would enjoy it too.
Click to expand...

You picked the wrong game for fluffy animals lol. You're gonna die in this game, there's no denying that. It's a cinematic platformer. I'm glad there are games that show the brutality of the animal world.

rockFight.gif


I'm guessing you've never played Tokyo Jungle? :p

4787.gif


Stay away from this game if you can't handle it.
 
C

Crispy75

Member
bosseye said:
Checkpointing is easy to get wrong too, so hopefully it's not too irritating.
Click to expand...

When you die you go back to the start of that day's hunt, in your shelter. That can mean quite a lot of lost progress. I've seen some exasperated youtube/twitch streamers.
 
S

Subway Diet

Member
Been keeping an eye on this game for years.
It looks great, for sure, but I can't help but wonder if plays well. All that weird, procedural animation with so many things to interact with? It worries me in the way a lot of those intentionally frustrating physics-based comedy games do.

Seems like I'll be keeping a keen eye on the reviews as well.
 
F

FelipeMGM

Member
Crispy75 said:
When you die you go back to the start of that day's hunt, in your shelter. That can mean quite a lot of lost progress. I've seen some exasperated youtube/twitch streamers.
Click to expand...

yes, and you can only hibernate in a shelter if you collected enough food to spend the night
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Crispy75 said:
When you die you go back to the start of that day's hunt, in your shelter. That can mean quite a lot of lost progress. I've seen some exasperated youtube/twitch streamers.
Click to expand...
Seems about 10 to 20 minutes, depending if you die by animal or by the rain. I had commented about that concern in the devlog, mainly because it seemed kind of frustrating that the game didn't save after you cross into a new region. To be fair, they tend to have shelters pretty close to region entrances.
 
M

More_Badass

Member
spannicus said:
Thats the worse thing about being a vita owner. Games get announced, then you dont hear anything about them for years. Lol smh
Click to expand...
When it was announced, Vita was still pretty thriving. Similar situation to Wii U version being cancelled in favor of Switch

But they didn't just forget the Vita version. The entire reason they expanded the game's screensize to 16:9 was so it would look nice on Vita widescreen
So the solution we came up with is that basically we're designing everything around a few key 16:9 and 4:3 resolutions simultaneously as to accommodate things like the PS Vita
Click to expand...
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Pachimari said:
But when you die, besides observing, are we supposed to quit and start a new game then?

Also what are we gonna do with the pups? Will we have to guard them and feed them?
Click to expand...
You reload at your last shelter.

And yeah, that was the idea with pups, at least when the devs were discussing them. But they're not helpless, and they're AI-driven like everything else.
Old pup trailer
UoNVRtX.gif

As you can see the green one is quick to grab a spear and kill me. The others are just trying to flee. You may also notice that the green pup doesn't throw the spear until there are no siblings between it and its target - me.

...The pups have different personalities, and the green one is the violent, heroic and brave. When you find them he is holding a spear, and guarding the others.
Click to expand...

===

Crispy75 said:
Although he also seems to be finding it too hard (controls and checkpoints)

Do we know when the embargo lifts?
Click to expand...
Embargo lifts the 27th

Here were his other tweets
i like:
-the world
-the art
-the creatures

i don't like:
-the controls
-the checkpoint system
-the giant underwater creature
Click to expand...
i hope you like bad checkpointing and slightly annoying controls! (It's still p gud)
Click to expand...
 
S

Sarcasm

Member
Crispy75 said:
Up down left right, jump, grab, throw.

There are "special moves" much like Mario 64, eg. Wall jump. Crouch then jump to do a long leap. Run, change direction and jump to do a backflip. And so on.
Click to expand...

So..that is annoying?


Also yea checkpoints can be bad, how are they in this?
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Sarcasm said:
So..that is annoying?


Also yea checkpoints can be bad, how are they in this?
Click to expand...
I haven't played the final game yet, but I'm going to make a dreaded Dark Souls analogy here. From what I've seen and played of earlier builds, the idea here is the same mindset that devs in Dark Souls want you to have, that "is it better to press on or play it safe and return to a bonfire?" thought process. Risk versus reward, while here also encouraging you to not be reckless and to learn the rules of the world.
Granjinha said:
yeah i agree, it's really fair once you understand the rules. What i love is how much stuff there is to discover. I'm 20 hours in and still finding out about things that i could do or use right at the beggining :p
Click to expand...
FelipeMGM said:
yeah I have, and its really tough. But not in any unfair way though, you know how you screw up when you die.

My first couple of hours were really brutal, like basically making no progress at all until I undestood better the rules of the world. Now Im more into it, but I still dont get a lot of stuff and Im dying a lot lol
Click to expand...
The frustrating part is losing progress because the game only saves in shelters. However cycles seem to be relatively short, like around 20 minutes, so you aren't exactly losing a ton of progress. And that's if the rain gets you. If it's a creature, you'd lose even less.

The risk also lies in the food system. You only need four pieces of food to be safe, but can collect seven. Collecting extra food means you need to find less during the next cycle, plus you can bring food into a shelter. So the risk of gathering more food lets you explore more freely next cycle.
 
F

FelipeMGM

Member
More_Badass said:
I haven't played the final game yet, but I'm going to make a dreaded Dark Souls analogy here. From what I've seen and played of earlier builds, the idea here is the same mindset that devs in Dark Souls want you to have, that "is it better to press on or play it safe and return to a bonfire?" thought process. Risk versus reward, while here also encouraging you to not be reckless and to learn the rules of the world.

The frustrating part is losing progress because the game only saves in shelters. However cycles seem to be relatively short, like around 20 minutes, so you aren't exactly losing a ton of progress. And that's if the rain gets you. If it's a creature, you'd lose even less.

The risk also lies in the food system. You only need four pieces of food to be safe, but can collect seven. Collecting extra food means you need to find less during the next cycle, plus you can bring food into a shelter. So the risk of gathering more food lets you explore more freely next cycle.
Click to expand...

That Dark Souls analogy is so true, and I even have a bit like that on my review

The frustrating part of losing progress is that sometimes there is little you can do to avoid death. It happened to me twice to get out of a tunnel and bam be eaten right away. But thats also a remider of how incredibly alive and aware this world is.

And that also means that you might be in a run with the mindset to advance areas, but then you lose your survivor rank and you have to rebuild that all over again

As I said before, its brutal but still fair and addictive
 
G

Granjinha

Member
yeah the survivor rank thing is kinda annoying some times but at the same time it just makes the stakes so much higher and the runs where you want to advance in the zones so TENSE

i love it
 
M

More_Badass

Member
Interview with James (level/sound designer)
http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/523273/Rain+World+procedural+in+scope,+but+hand-done/
"It's way too large. You know how in procedurally generated games, like in Minecraft or something like that, you really get that sense of exploration where you're moving, you're uncovering things and it feels really immersive, you really get wrapped up in that sense of exploration. I love that, but I hate how 'grey goo' it is with the procedural landscapes and terrain, where there's just nothing interesting. There's no peaks and valleys, there's no hand-crafted sense."

So I had the bright idea of doing something that was procedural in scope, but hand-done. So this game has over 1,600 rooms, all done by me, all hand-pixeled, all of it, every square done by me, and that took a long time. I think we really achieved that sense, and I'm proud of it, but I was cursing my past self often for making me suffer through all of this"
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom