|OT| Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice | OT | Borne of Souls

Saruhashi

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WHAT THE FUCK!

his health keeps resetting! i gave him a deathblow and managed to get a bit of his health down. i ran around the rocks and he has 2 bars back!? also when i sneak up behind him for the deathblow all the other enemies activate and then stupid NPC thinks it's a good idea to focus on them and get himself killed. i'm done.

i honestly would love to see the developers play this game because it's fucking beyond me on how they think this is a fair fight.

But plenty of people have beaten him and have beaten him early in the game.

You can get an initial deathblow on him but you have to sacrifice the NPC.
Or you can go hardcore and kill his minions and both health bars.

So, talk to the NPC and he'll go storming in.
When this happens you want to circle round and attack the minions from the rear and kill them all.
Juzo will defeat that NPC but you will run away for a minute.
Get out of there and hide for a bit then go into the wooden corridors that lead you behind Juzo now that he's up on his feet.
Sneak up. Deathblow.
Now facing him is easy. You are in a big wide space and he can't reach you if you are sprinting around.
Get in and hit him and then get out.
When he takes a swig of his drink or applies poison to his sword you can get free hits.
Firecrackers can also stun him for free hits.

The truth is that their are MULTIPLE ways to beat the boss though and you are faster and have your gadgets and items.
So it's a perfectly fair fight.
Just have patience and be willing to try things and fail.

Reading a lot of comments, not just here, it feels like people play games up until they find one overpowered technique and then just blast through the remainder to get to the end and a lot of the blowback on Dark Souls, Bloodborne etc seems to come from folks just running in and expecting to beat up the boss and move on as quickly as possible.

In reality there is a very limited moveset and the boss has a limited set of moves also.
The way to beat them is always in there somewhere you just need to take a moment and think about it.
This big slow moving guy who telegraphs all of his attacks.
Just stay out of reach and then dash/jump in for a hit when he shows an opening.
 

ael85

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Oooowww, man, hahaha. This game is hard, drunk or not.

Shuriken and others arm's tool can be refuel with an iten affordable at the Idol (bonfire). You can avoid enemy but this game is about you become really good at playing, or you'll never pass through any boss. Try to learn with every enemy. After you adquire some good skills of your own, you can think about avoid some soldiers and stuff.

The master advice is: BECOME GOOD IN PARRY !!!

I actually believe that it's useless to practice most enemies and the best course of action is to learn actual bosses (meaning to grind the actual enemy you can't beat). When you learn the moveset and get the timing down the challenge is over.
 

Jae Mara

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Having a great time with the game, just beat Genichiro. Still think Juzu was probably the trickiest fight so far. The whole design of leaving a bunch of ads to deal with was terrible. All these games fail miserably when they ask you to deal with more than two at the time, As you aggro an entire area and then de-aggro after taken a few down is painfully monotonous. Doesnt take skill just needless busy work. The stealth in the game seems more of an after thought as the stealth fails in most sections of the game, for instance you cant clear out majority areas just by stealth and if all you can do is to take 1 or 2 people down you can easily do that through standard battle in which case save some time and run into situations, its far more effective.

Level design overall is top notch and cant wait to dig deeper into the world. I have many paths open to me and not knowing whats ahead is pretty exciting.

Definitely the best combat From Software has ever created and certainly one of the more consistently functioning ones, hitboxes, backstab reading etc still ropey but better. I think Nioh still trumps in it combat and possibly difficulty hard to say so far but Sekiro wipes the floor with it in all other aspects. Hope Nioh 2 can deliver what it failed to in the first game, think it is also coming out this year so could be a great year for these type of games.
 
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blly155

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finally beat the bastard juzo. i don't feel any accomplishment or anything. glad he's dead. fucking bastard.

now trying to do the lady butterfly. i can dodge most of her attacks no problem but not doing much damage to her. she reminds of me of lady maria boss fight in bloodborne.
 
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ael85

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Just a tip for all the ones struggling.

If you are having trouble fighting the enemy. lock on the boss or mini boss or whatever and hold the run button and start running around them at mid range to see everything they do and when you can chip in a slice and run away. This way you can actually beat them or at least learn the timings you would need to parry every attack.
 

ael85

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I thought the same at first but once you unlock the tool upgrades they cost a lot of money :(

For money at the beggining of the game
After beating the Horse boss at the bonfire idol that is unlocked there you sprint, kill the shooting dude, hook up, go full speed around the tree backstab the midget, then lock on the left midget, backstab it then use axe on the only other midget left to break helmet and finish him. Jump the wall and idol rest. Rinse and repeat money and levels in no time. (also crafting materials)
 

DonyDevitt

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I actually believe that it's useless to practice most enemies and the best course of action is to learn actual bosses (meaning to grind the actual enemy you can't beat). When you learn the moveset and get the timing down the challenge is over.

Well, not if it's your beggining. You have to deal with parry and timing and the best way to be good with this is practing and the game design is made thinking in this. If you just jump to the boss wihout any other fight before, you gonna die WAY MUCH MORE.
 

blly155

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i think i'm gonna leave lady butterfly and come back later. i feel like i'm not even started the game because i've spent so many hours in this hirata estate memory.

purple ninja + lady butterfly. you win...for now. i'll come back stronger to whoop some ass.
 

DonyDevitt

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Just a tip for all the ones struggling.

If you are having trouble fighting the enemy. lock on the boss or mini boss or whatever and hold the run button and start running around them at mid range to see everything they do and when you can chip in a slice and run away. This way you can actually beat them or at least learn the timings you would need to parry every attack.

This is a good advice. Unfortunely, when the boss is in a close range place, you don't have to much choice than die. Just killed the modafoca Lone Shadow yesterday. Not a big deal, but the place was so tiny and the soul's camera as hiting on me like the worse enemy of entiry souls series.
 

Skyr

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This is a good advice. Unfortunely, when the boss is in a close range place, you don't have to much choice than die. Just killed the modafoca Lone Shadow yesterday. Not a big deal, but the place was so tiny and the soul's camera as hiting on me like the worse enemy of entiry souls series.

The camera is my worst enemy at times. When guardian ape had me cornered the camera got all fucked up and I lost lock on which resulted in me getting stuck and finished off.
 
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ael85

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The camera is my worst enemy at times. When guardian ape had me cornered the camera got all fucked up and I lost lock on which resulted in me getting stuck and finished off.

Been there, also sliding instead of running because of taking a sharp turn got me killed many times at that fight.
 
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Mega Man

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Love the game. I'm at
Father Owl fight
, was too tired to try.

Sadly I believe the longevity of the title will be way shorter than the other games because of the lack of multiplayer. I miss the multiplayer if only for PVP.
Wasn't an element of PvP added to DS3 via DLC? Could be something similar here...
 

voidenberg

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Are you talking about the Ninja on the well? (Where you start on the beggining of the game)
Is that still the start os the game? Damn. It's the one you can drop from above him.
Yeah, i know. Someone will say it's easy. I should keep trying and git gud. But i'm not in the mood.

And fuck that camera. And fuck this dragon rot thing. It's probably not a big deal and I bet you can ignore it for the most part.
But it's like adding salt to the wound.

I know it's a good game but it's not the right game for me right now. I might come back and try again at a later date.
 

Fbh

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Still seeing a lot of people saying they beat previous Souls games and are struggling here.

From my point of view the biggest difference that took me quite some time to get used to is that in the Souls games you are often encouraged to go for a more defensive play style (at least against the stronger enemies): Stay away, defend, evade and wait for an opening to get 1-3 hits in before backing away again.
In Sekiro you are encouraged to stay on the offensive. Continue hitting the enemy, stay on their face, block and deflect when needed and then go right back to attacking. If the enemy backs away in the souls game it would be time to breathe and get ready for them to come at you, here you don't give them any time to breath and go right at them with your preferred gap closing skill (the one you can unlock fro the Shuriken is my favourite).

Exemplified by my unimpressive (and slighlty lucky) but ultimately effective win against Genichiro;
What actually got me killed here was backing away in a bad moment (and my inability to read his low sweep attack multiple times)
 
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#Phonepunk#

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If you are having trouble fighting the enemy. lock on the boss or mini boss or whatever and hold the run button and start running around them at mid range to see everything they do and when you can chip in a slice and run away. This way you can actually beat them or at least learn the timings you would need to parry every attack.

yeah this is really good advice. it's as if your sword is your shield here. you can hold that block and then just tap the button when they attack to get the deflect. on top of that, your posture heals quickly when you hold down block, so that's another reason to do that anyways.

lol not that any of this is helping me defeat Lady Butterfly.
 

Azula

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Random thoughts:

This game exposes how much of a crutch the "call for help" option is in Dark Souls, Bloodborne and also Nioh.
There are bosses here I would have probably just said "fuck it" and asked for help but since I can't do that I was forced to learn the game and do it myself.

More then that, what a crutch stats are. I never used help from other players, and I beat the Souls games and Bloodborne. Not having the ability to grind and increase your stats, means you truly have to master the combat. I have a feeling there are gonna be a ton of players who simply can’t progress in this game, because no amount of unlocked moves, will give you a leg up like increased stats gave you.

Definitely a rude awakening. I also beat Nioh btw. And I can’t even get past a single mini boss in Sekiro.
 
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Having beaten Demon Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne in that order, I feel like this game is much harder than those games.

but this is a very good game so far. Im at Lady B and at the castle so I can continue in two different directions.

im loving it so far but yikes it is hard.
 

Shifty.

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The games press is exposing its own balls super hard thanks to this game:

Eurogamer - In games, there is cheese and there is cheese
PC Gamer - I am never going to finish Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

 

Helios

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I just got trapped in the doorway on the
second monk fight
without any way to escape and with the camera going crazy like usual. I want to throw my controller at whoever designed these boss arenas. They always seem to have something to get you or the camera stuck on.
 
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voidenberg

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Well, i loved every soulsborne game so far. But last night i raged so hard i uninstalled the game.


Now i'm at work thinking about how i'm going to download it again when i get home....
 
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Skyr

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Well, i loved every soulsborne game so far. But last night i raged so hard i uninstalled the game.


Now i'm at work thinking about how i'm going to download it again when i get home....

I should prolly upload a pic of my destroyed controler so people here can feel better about themselves :messenger_grinning:
 
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Saruhashi

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I kind of hate that they both mention the Chained Orge.
It's not a difficult battle in principle. You learn the arena and his moves and he can't touch you.
Problem is that you are really fighting your own impulse to get greedy and go for one more hit.

I also don't like the "I don't want to get good, and that's OK" attitude.
People are entitled to like or dislike whatever they want but this desperate need to justify it is so lame.

Can you imagine tell these folks you like to run marathons or something and they give you that smug "pah, I don't have time for nonsense like that".

For sure the game requires patience and practice and the need to think things over after failure but it's still only a 40 to 50 hour experience.

Also hate this: "Dark Souls games are hard and people who deny it are either arrogant or lying."
Fuck this guy.

I can say for sure that on 2nd and 3rd playthroughs of these games I can get through them WAY more easily that my 1st playthrough. To the point where some bosses that gave me serious trouble first time round could be taken care of in one go.

Shit, how many times could you be stuck on a part of a game and look it up online and instantly you are like a god fighting the same boss that wrecked you 50 times.

The difficulty always seems to be in the unexpected surprises and figuring out how some things are done for the first time.

This is where a game like the new Assassin's Creed games will give you all the tools you need early on and then that's basically it.
The odd curveball here and there but generally once you've wasted the first few enemies you can now waste every enemy.
Even Horizon consists of scanning the enemy and shooting the glowy bits then going in for the kill.

FROM games have always felt more like you learn something and master it and then you get to move on to something else and the enemies and environments really move with you.

It's literally part of the game design that these games bosses will have "phases" so that even when you master a boss enough to chop them down to half health you are going to get even more surprises in the next phase.

It's sad to see these lads kind of turn their nose up at that and say "I don't want to learn" or "I don't want to get good".

I just think that if you can work a controller then you can beat these games.
Just like anyone who can run can end up running a marathon if they work on it.

I suppose it depends on how you view games or how you want your games.
The feeling I get is that some people legitimately just want an interactive story.
 
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robo_qwop

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The second tip re farming items and gold is extremely helpful.
Same for tip 1 (spoiler, though, for temple area).

 

Kamina

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WHAT THE FUCK!

his health keeps resetting! i gave him a deathblow and managed to get a bit of his health down. i ran around the rocks and he has 2 bars back!? also when i sneak up behind him for the deathblow all the other enemies activate and then stupid NPC thinks it's a good idea to focus on them and get himself killed. i'm done.

i honestly would love to see the developers play this game because it's fucking beyond me on how they think this is a fair fight.
You mean that drink with the large sword?
Sneak along the left and pick off the first enemy with a deathblow, then run back through the left and take care of the NPCs that follow you. Once all NPCs are gone talk to the NPC and take on the boss, or sneak onto the boss and finish him in a battle. Only close in to attack when he drinks his sake and back away after max 3 hits.
 

robo_qwop

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You mean that drink with the large sword?
Sneak along the left and pick off the first enemy with a deathblow, then run back through the left and take care of the NPCs that follow you. Once all NPCs are gone talk to the NPC and take on the boss, or sneak onto the boss and finish him in a battle. Only close in to attack when he drinks his sake and back away after max 3 hits.

Also, hit him witth oil > flame prosthetic > 3-4 free hits plus he's still ignited.
 

V4skunk

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What? Did you even play the game?

The battle mechanics are lightyears apart. In souls you just turtle and slowly grind down each enemy and boss. slowly. very slowly.
In bb you were encouraged to re-attack quickly to regain lost health.

Here you have to keep pressure up constantly in order to get a proper deathblow hit in. Play like ds and the foe will quickly regain his posture and all your effort was wasted.


The only similarity with DS/BB is that you have to learn the mechanics to know how to counter them.
Just like in Manic Miner from the late 1980s.

You are trolling.

The core gameplay mechanics are exactly the same as the previous Soulsborne games.
The only real difference is no online and no level up system.
You call me a troll? Just lol.
 

AV

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The core gameplay mechanics are exactly the same as the previous Soulsborne games.
The only real difference is no online and no level up system.
You call me a troll? Just lol.

Exactly the same, except a completely new stealth system, there's no stamina, skill trees instead of stat distribution, the XP system which works completely differently to the souls/echoes system, the parry system is totally different, the new dragonrot and unseen aid systems, etc.

Not sure what game you're playing. Sounds like you're just posturing.
 

ArchaeEnkidu

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The second tip re farming items and gold is extremely helpful.
Same for tip 1 (spoiler, though, for temple area).


I really wish I kept the balloons. I always sold them as I rarely ever used 'em.

Also, once you reach the Scultper's Statue that brings you to the "Gun Fort", it is one of the best ways to grind for Sen. I personally prefer it over the others in the later game. It is quick.
 
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kingbean

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I got a steam refund. It's just not clicking with me right now. I haven't been able to even finish DMC5 yet. Just playing slow ass RPGS is more my speed at this current time.

Dunno if I'll get back into it though.
 

wzy

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Yes, I made a mistake. Sorry.
I'm not here to argue what constitutes a boss here.

In any case he's rock hard compared to the actual horse boss guy who is easy.

Oh, I don't care what counts as a boss or anything. He qualifies as far as I'm concerned, I just wasn't sure if you were talking about the Ogre or something else.

What I wanted to say was just that I don't think you're supposed to fight him when you first see him. In that area there are a few warnings that you should come back when you have some fire.

Sometimes the Dark Souls branding works against the overall experience. People assume the game is supposed to be ridiculously hard, so its not always obvious when to back off and go do something else in the game world. FromSoft really likes to give silver bullets to players--some item or ability or combination of both that dramatically brings down the difficulty of a given encounter or area. It's part of their whole Zelda/Castlevania design sensibility. The right tool for the job can trivialize certain encounters. Maybe I'm darksplaining and you realize this already--sorry--but I guess I didn't think the Ogre was that hard when I went back the second time.
 
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Mista

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Vaati is great when it comes to this I enjoy his content. I know it’s posted in the thread but I’ll post it again too because it’s very essential

 
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It really baffles how someone who plays game for a living can suck so much at it.
They don't, though. They write stupid shit and tenuously link it to games for a living. The actual playing of games is way down the list for a lot of them.
 
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Golgo 13

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Close - speedruns.com lists Skyrim beaten in 25 minutes. https://www.speedrun.com/skyrim



Let's assume speed runners are the top 1% of players. If they can complete a game like Dark Souls, 100% in under 4 hours - then it is beyond possible for the average person to simply *beat the game* if they had four times that amount. Sekiro is a shorter game than Dark Souls.
I totally agree that the game can be beaten in 15 hours by Speedrunners, but that’s not going to be the average persons playtime’. Obviously it’s going to depend a lot on how lucky you get with the order you do things in, too. Fighting Genchiro with a 1 attack power is going to make the fight much harder (and longer) than if you went in with the recommended 2 or 3.

Same thing with a ton of the early/mid game bosses.
I agree. It feels mechanical. Like I'm playing the entire game on the extreme dificulty setting. Too needy. Like I'm dating the prom queen.
Good thing is. I like playing games on that setting, bad thing is, it prevents me from getting into the game on any level apart from 'high alert'.

This is one title that absolutely needs a lower difficulty setting, not becuase it's that difficult but because it's a combat game, not a souls RPG.

It needs to reward combat, but doesn't as you pointed out. This is a big design flaw. Without the RPG'ing / exploration or atmosphere this mechanic doesn't really work.
That From disgregarded easing you into the combat, the main portion of the game, is part of the problem. It holds your hand for hours explaining mechanics that are obvious and pretty much inconsequential, but leaves you floudering when it comes to the actual gameplay.

It's a good game. A solid 8/10 for me which may rise if it gets better, but right now my main criticisms are that it's fairly unoriginal and lacks soul (no pun intended).
The game feels compromised, sort of like like Souls has been forced into a more standard level design template, then they just whacked a couple of extreme bosses on top to toughen it up / make it stand out. Most of the game just plays like a western title on a harder difficulty setting and this is a shame.

Having said this. I witnessed Platiunum Games get compromised working for Activision and I feared that this would happen with From as well.
From have fared a lot better, and this has mostly worked out, but I hope this is their last collboration with a western publisher.
Like you’re dating the prom queen.. lol
 

Zaro

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The dark souls one melee homing attacks ruin me. Currently choking on an easy boss.

The Owl, it's a combination of bullshit, me choking, and the camera. I can full parry the first phase and then I'll choke to something I dodge 100% of the time before.

Also health bars are just a suggestion when you constantly get one/two shot, the main reason I've died more in this than Souls. The death mechanic punishment is pointless, should only punish you if you choose to res instead of the % gambling stuff, and shinobi tools are forgettable half the time.
 
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Danjin44

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It needs to reward combat, but doesn't as you pointed out. This is a big design flaw. Without the RPG'ing / exploration or atmosphere this mechanic doesn't really work.
That From disgregarded easing you into the combat, the main portion of the game, is part of the problem. It holds your hand for hours explaining mechanics that are obvious and pretty much inconsequential, but leaves you floudering when it comes to the actual gameplay.
I highly disagree with this, the game doesn't need RPG elements to feel rewarding and also the game great level design for exploration.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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i can't imagine getting stuck on the Chained Ogre and sucking so bad that you write an article complaining about it. yeah i struggled with it for a good half hour but pretty sure i killed that guy in the first hour of play. it would terrify me if game dev listened to journalists suck so bad and want the game to be easier.

thank God that From Software has the integrity to be confident in their own work and to just do so, time and time again. all the tools are there, they are all spelled out for you in dialogs and tutorials, it is all fair. if you fail, YOU own that failure. if you give up, YOU have let yourself down, not the game.

anytime i see "it's not fair" or "bad game design" it translates to the complainer saying "I suck and have given up and choose to blame my own lack of patience on others"
 
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o'dium

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With regard to the odd combat, h have to say I agree. On the last butterfly boss for example, I saw countless videos of people slamming one style attack and her having no chance... for me? Nope. Wouldn’t do it. Every time I did it and hurt her, she would instantly block them attack. Nothing I did worked. Same boss, people said try dodging left and attacking once over and over... Nope again. So in the end I beat her the legit way.

Likewise there are other bosses that just seem to ignore everything youve learnt so far. The big guy outside the first hut in the game, the guy with the spear? Fuck your posture, fuck your blocking, and fuck your counter attack... this one was just a big bag of fuck. Not even ashamed to admit I cheesed this guy by using the grapple point next to him over and over and launching myself at him and off the cliff side.

I really do feel the thing missing from this was easier ways to level up health and attack. Beating bosses sure sounds like it’s fun, and it really does give you a reward... but it doesn’t ever feel right. I want to feel like I’m getting more powerful to take these things on, not talking these things on and then getting more powerful. It’s an odd situation, one that many other games do even, but feels better there.

That said, still not bored. Still enjoying it. Pretty much near the end now too.
 

EviLore

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With regard to the odd combat, h have to say I agree. On the last butterfly boss for example, I saw countless videos of people slamming one style attack and her having no chance... for me? Nope. Wouldn’t do it. Every time I did it and hurt her, she would instantly block them attack. Nothing I did worked. Same boss, people said try dodging left and attacking once over and over... Nope again. So in the end I beat her the legit way.

Likewise there are other bosses that just seem to ignore everything youve learnt so far. The big guy outside the first hut in the game, the guy with the spear? Fuck your posture, fuck your blocking, and fuck your counter attack... this one was just a big bag of fuck. Not even ashamed to admit I cheesed this guy by using the grapple point next to him over and over and launching myself at him and off the cliff side.

I really do feel the thing missing from this was easier ways to level up health and attack. Beating bosses sure sounds like it’s fun, and it really does give you a reward... but it doesn’t ever feel right. I want to feel like I’m getting more powerful to take these things on, not talking these things on and then getting more powerful. It’s an odd situation, one that many other games do even, but feels better there.

That said, still not bored. Still enjoying it. Pretty much near the end now too.

The game ignores everything you've learned so far in order to teach you something new. ;b
 

JareBear

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I don't care where (just far)
I highly disagree with this, the game doesn't need RPG elements to feel rewarding and also the game great level design for exploration.

I don't think added RPG elements would have hurt, though.

Again, everyone should have known that wasn't in the game long ago, so I am not complaining. The game's level design is fantastic, as you point out. It's my favorite game this year, for sure, however as I said earlier it does feel, to me, when I play, that it just is missed that little extra element.

You'll disagree with me, as always, and that's fine.

It's easy to say:

Not every game needs multiplayer
Not every game needs loot
Not every game needs open world
Not every game needs RPG elements
etc

But in some cases one, or more, of those things would add to the experience and enhance what is already great. SOMETIMES
 
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Grinchy

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In a cave outside of Whooville.
I'm still early in, but only one thing has genuinely frustrated me so far. The big guy who is chained up who hates fire would be a really cool fight if the hitbox for when he can grab you wasn't so stupid.

Half the time I am properly dodging the grab and then my character model just teleports into his arms. It just feels like a crapshoot on whether it'll be a successful dodge or an unsuccessful one. I noticed even a speedrunner having the same issue with this one specific enemy. Other than that, this game has been really fun so far.
 
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Sygma

Member
Nov 22, 2016
745
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Love the game. I'm at
Father Owl fight
, was too tired to try.

Sadly I believe the longevity of the title will be way shorter than the other games because of the lack of multiplayer. I miss the multiplayer if only for PVP.

yeah but you still got to play it 4 times to see all the endings, not too shabby
 

Mr Nash

square pies = communism
Jun 8, 2004
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How do the controls feel in this game. Watching some streams it seems much more fluid compared to Souls games, which I always found had a methodical clunkiness to them.
 
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