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Halo 5: Guardians |OT2| All Hail The Conquering Hero

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JackHerer

Member
Why is BTB matchmaking so bad anyway? It's noticeably worse than all other modes and ends up being a major source of quitting. Is it a population issue?

I guess I should just stop playing it at this point. It's a disgrace what they did to BTB. They held it back from launch to promote and funnel resources to Warzone and then give us an extremely half assed version to quiet us.

In past Halo games I've generally spent half my time in BTB and the rest 4v4. Right now my only other option for that kind of larger player count experience is Warzone which is a very poor substitution IMO. It should have been in addition to BTB and not a replacement. I guess I'm beating a dead horse here though... Just disappointed really.

I love the core gameplay to death and I know they will try to fix some of the issues and in 6 months or a year from now I'm sure it will be a much more enjoyable and repeatable game as a whole, but they really dropped the ball on this launch content-wise. I don't know why they thought it was a good idea to cut and hold back all these features that have been in pretty much all previous titles and which fans have come to expect.
 

Monocle

Member
Kotaku shits on 343 for their campaigns and story telling and they're totally right.
I was ready to wave off that article as another shallow dismissal of Halo 5's campaign, but it actually makes some great points about the heroic theme of Bungie's Halos, and 343's awful retcon of Dr. Halsey. That war criminal angle was downright offensive to me after Nylund's great books where she's portrayed as a complex person as opposed to a one-dimensional child abuser who everybody despises.

That said, I found Halsey's characterization in Halo 5's campaign to be much better than in Halo 4 and Karen Traviss's books, with only minor traces of the earlier character assassination. I know Frankie's said the negative portrayal of Halsey came from the perspectives of her rivals and enemies, but let's be honest, her personality and inner life were objectively distorted. Her nurturing and morally conflicted aspects were practically written out of existence around the time 343 took over, even as she was emotionally and physically tormented as though the very universe had it out for her. At least Halo 5 highlights her significance in Halo's world and shows that she still cares about John, without roughing her up all the time.

I can't agree with the article's critiques of Halo 5's gameplay, beyond the overuse of the Warden and his crazy melee attacks. From a gameplay perspective, Halo 5's campaign is definitely among the series' best, and the game's basic mechanics and visual design are greatly improved from Halo 4.

Loving them games where 3 Br bursts is enough to kill me. Damn it feels good.....
Maybe it's my horrendous connection playing tricks on me, but I could swear that I die twice as fast as I can kill other players in Warzone. I'm trying to teach myself to love getting dickstomped, but it's hard going.
 

DocSeuss

Member
I was ready to wave off that article as another shallow dismissal of Halo 5's campaign, but it actually makes some great points about the heroic theme of Bungie's Halos, and 343's awful retcon of Dr. Halsey. That war criminal angle was downright offensive to me after Nylund's great books where she's portrayed as a complex person as opposed to a one-dimensional child abuser who everybody despises.

That said, I found Halsey's characterization in Halo 5's campaign to be much better than in Halo 4 and Karen Traviss's books, with only minor traces of the earlier character assassination. I know Frankie's said the negative portrayal of Halsey came from the perspectives of her rivals and enemies, but let's be honest, her personality and inner life were objectively distorted. Her nurturing and morally conflicted aspects were practically written out of existence around the time 343 took over, even as she was emotionally and physically tormented as though the very universe had it out for her. At least Halo 5 highlights her significance in Halo's world and shows that she still cares about John, without roughing her up all the time.

I can't agree with the article's critiques of Halo 5's gameplay, beyond the overuse of the Warden and his crazy melee attacks. From a gameplay perspective, Halo 5's campaign is definitely among the series' best, and the game's basic mechanics and visual design are greatly improved from Halo 4.


Maybe it's my horrendous connection playing tricks on me, but I could swear that I die twice as fast as I can kill other players in Warzone. I'm trying to teach myself to love getting dickstomped, but it's hard going.

Thanks, I worked pretty hard on that piece, 'cause it's a series I care about a lot. But, I mean, deep analysis stuff is basically the gig I have right now at Kotaku, so I try to keep all my stuff up to snuff.

With the gameplay stuff... I could have done an entire piece, so I kept it as objective as I could: the amount of hits I'm doing should be downing enemies the way they used to, but they don't. The enemies seem to be taking more damage, while I seem to be taking less. The amount of one-shot kills I took in that game was ridiculous compared to, uh... every other Halo. I liked it better when the only one-shots came from guys with swords who were very easy to see and prioritize, y'know? But, like... I could go forever on this angle.
 

Cranster

Banned
Thanks, I worked pretty hard on that piece, 'cause it's a series I care about a lot. But, I mean, deep analysis stuff is basically the gig I have right now at Kotaku, so I try to keep all my stuff up to snuff.

With the gameplay stuff... I could have done an entire piece, so I kept it as objective as I could: the amount of hits I'm doing should be downing enemies the way they used to, but they don't. The enemies seem to be taking more damage, while I seem to be taking less. The amount of one-shot kills I took in that game was ridiculous compared to, uh... every other Halo. I liked it better when the only one-shots came from guys with swords who were very easy to see and prioritize, y'know? But, like... I could go forever on this angle.
Those difficulty mechanics have been in place since atleast Halo 2 though, so that's not really a fair complaint to make against Halo 5.

Like seriously, let's not forget...
latest
 
If anyone is interested, this was a good CTF game I had on Basin tonight. I'm in Gold right now, so maybe it's the competition, but I was able to get 3 flag caps without dying within 5 minutes. There were a couple of interesting moments. You know, real dramatic like.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Class A Ninja/video/12929995


Edit: It gets really nuts around 3:10. The announcer isn't done talking about the second capture until I'm about halfway to grabbing the flag for the third time.
 

Madness

Member
I just don't get the ranking systems. I mean what's even the point of the divisions if you're going to put everyone from onyx to gold together? I'm talking about the emblems. Or maybe people were placed too high and just can't drop down and need to be re-ranked etc.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Those difficulty mechanics have been in place since atleast Halo 2 though, so that's not really a fair complaint to make against Halo 5.

Like seriously, let's not forget...
latest

I was playing yesterday and they could two-hit you on Heroic, not one-hit. They were pretty annoying, which is why they were less annoying in future Halo games.

Bungie was afraid to embrace the lore? That's because it wasn't their lore. Why does no one understand that? They didn't want Nylund to write Fall of Reach, they didn't even want Ensemble working on Halo Wars. They made Halo CE, it was successful and then Microsoft brutally pursued them to make Halo 2 which they barely got out of the door. Halo 3 was the culmination of that trilogy, the finishing of the fight, and many would argue was one of their better campaigns. And then, they gave us a self contained story with ODST and their own version of Reach that tied into the start of CE. They weren't there to satisfy lore whores who loved the extended fiction, they got so tired of Halo, they went onto make Destiny.

The positive that 343 has is that everything is now in house. They have a franchise team. They are created solely to make Halo. Those who get tired can quit and move on and others can come. Now you'd think this is a positive but it's actually hampered the primary medium for Halo, the games. Read these books to know just who the hell the people on your fireteam are, read this comic to find out what happened at the end of the last game, listen to this podcast so you know where certain characters are etc.

But this has had a negative effect on the games. That's two games now where the campaign story particularly has been largely panned by the gamers and the reviewers at large. If you cannot tell if effectively in game, rethink your current plan of utilizing miniseries and books and shows and podcasts to get the ENTIRE story out. The focus is the games. What good is it to Microsoft if they get a million podcast listens for Hunt the Truth but 600k physical (non bundle) retail sales at launch? Sometimes the best intentions don't make for a fun game.

As an outsider, it seems as if they don't understand that the single most important thing you do is make those Big Main Event Works completely standalone. Like, you do the Star Wars movies, and nobody has to read the books or the comics or whatever. They get the movies. There are some huge Star Wars comics going on right now, but you can absolutely watch the films without them.

The Major Works have to stand alone. Expanded universe stuff has to exist outside it. And, more importantly, as demonstrated by Star Wars, the expanded universe stuff has to twist and change to fit what happens in the movies. The movies never, ever, ever, ever rely on any expanded universe stuff. You have seven movies (Trilogy 1, Trilogy 2, and iirc, that Clone Wars movie) that relate to each other and only each other, and everything else builds on that, not vice versa.

The Major Works are your foundation, and everything comes from that, not the other way around, but 343i seems to try to build its main games on the 'foundation' of the expanded universe that 90% of all Halo customers don't actually care about. It can't penetrate the cultural consciousness if it's complex! That's why Disney killed Star Wars EU.

Also, the vast majority of the money that Star Wars made wasn't in the novels and whatnot, it was in the toys. Seriously, like... 95% of Star Wars merchandising is toys. Halo can't do toys nearly as well because it's military sci-fi, not sci-fantasy, so it has this entire military aesthetic and you can't go all cartoon and make a ton of cool, diverse toys based off of it.

Star Wars' popularity is also in the way they heavily encourage a lot of stuff like Robot Chicken Star Wars Special. Nobody before or since with a media franchise has allowed the same kind of fan work level that Lucasarts did, which helped ingrain Star Wars into the cultural consciousness.

Good read. I agree with a fair amount of it. For me, it comes down to one core thought: In Bungie's Halo games, I felt like I had an impact on the outcome, whereas in 343i's Halo games, I feel like the story is happening even if I wasn't playing.

Because Halo 4 was a time after Halo: Reach. While Reach sold a lot, people wanted a real Spartan, not some gimped Spartan. Quite a few of the hardcore fans that I know were pretty soured by the Reach gameplay experience and wanted to go back to the simplicity of MC and the way he played. It also helps push sales when you can throw your franchise's mascot on the cover.

Definitely.

Well, yeah, that's totally right. I get that. If I was making a new Halo, I'd go with a Spartan II. I'd probably start by rereading the Cole Protocol, of all things, because Gray Team was pretty cool, and I'd probably with that concept as a template and work from there. Locke should have been the series' Boba Fett, not "a stoic, boring army dude whose only task is to stop the guy everyone likes from doing what he wants." Dude needed a personality and didn't have one.

Anyways, if I were doing a Halo game, I'd be all "yes, yes, let's do more Flood stuff," and everyone would hate me for it. If I were trying to make a profitable Halo game, I'd work on a series that relates to the operations of a team that works like Gray Team and borrows its level design from mini-sandboxes like The Silent Cartographer and 'event levels' like The Ark. Or, with total control and a giant budget, I'd go with a game where a small group of Spartans has their own space ship and flies around the galaxy on individual missions that could be selected in order, like some weird Mass Effect Meets Halo Hybrid.
 

Cranster

Banned
I was playing yesterday and they could two-hit you on Heroic, not one-hit. They were pretty annoying, which is why they were less annoying in future Halo games.
They were one hit kills on Legendary though. Even on Heroic though Halo 2 is one of the more brutal campaigns with Halo: Reach being a close second. I found Halo 5 to be easier than Halo 2 on heroic in most cases with the exception of the final two Warden fights with Blue Team.
 

DocSeuss

Member
They were one hit kills on Legendary though. Even on Heroic though Halo 2 is one of the more brutal campaigns with Halo: Reach being a close second. I found Halo 5 to be easier than Halo 2 on heroic in most cases with the exception of the final two Warden fights with Blue Team.

Halo Reach on Heroic is literally the difficulty I want to play the entire Halo series at.

Because that's the writing assignment.

I'm paying you to be a consultant on this game and what we have is going to involve Chief.

What you described sounds cool but I want a compelling game involving the dude who moves units.

In that case, I'd have gone with a first game that's more or less about Chief exploring this ancient alien world, Cortana starting to go ramptant, and Chief trying to repair here with Forerunner AI, and ultimately discovering an ancient alien prisoner that's neither Flood nor Forerunner, before sending out a distress call to the rest of humanity. I'd also reveal that, dun dun dun, Chief was not the only one on that ship he was on, but a contingent of marines in cryo, because seriously, the game would suck without Chief.

Anywho, second game would be the big meetup, bad AI stuffs, and then shenanigans with this 'new' alien race, I'd figure out they were the vanguard for a post-Flood invasion of the galaxy, and then I'd go from there.

But seriously, being chained to that ending feels all wrong to me. Could just easily slap on a different spartan in the exact same set of armor, since they all look the same, and nobody would care. Pull an Assassin's Creed. Chief my Altair, this new person my Ezio.

Man, now I just want Ezio in power armor.
 

Leyasu

Banned
Stopped playing anything ranked (except BTB occasionally) because of it. Kept getting shot through walls (already provided a screenshot), which is even more noticeable if you thrust arround corners. It seriously feels like your hitbox stays in place for a whole second, after it decides to move with you. That was actually quite a ride with Shotty Snipes that one weekend. Should have made a montage. I also get this shit all the time in Warzone, but don't care since no ranks. One day, the delay/lag was so bad, that I shot somebody (with a BR) 3 times from behind and 3 times when he turned arround. All my shots connected, but he still gave me a perfect, because I'm appareantly shooting nerf gun bullets. After I watched that in Theater, I was done for the night. I really don't mind losing against better players when I'm getting outplayed (probably comes from my experience in the several sport tournaments I took part and obviously from other games), but when lag/delay gives people advantages that's something I don't want to deal with, because it's rather frustrating.

Pointless to capture stuff like this, because Theater isn't even displaying stuff correctly half the time and there is no way I'll make use of the GameDVR feature mid game, when I play a ranked game, because I donn't have a Kinect to yell at and I want to focus on the current game. Maybe I'll make use of my Capture Card again soon.

You can think of this what you want, but I've seen plenty of people complaining about this stuff on Twitter, Waypoint, Reddit and even Twitch. I don't think this is a very huge issue, but some people are affected and it ruins their experience. I mean, even Frankie said the automated Server Selection is something they are still tweaking (iirc), so they are acknowledging at least this issue.

Nice post Akai. And seeing as you are part of the haloGAF aristocracy, no one will even question your post....
 

Monocle

Member
Thanks, I worked pretty hard on that piece, 'cause it's a series I care about a lot. But, I mean, deep analysis stuff is basically the gig I have right now at Kotaku, so I try to keep all my stuff up to snuff.
Sure thing. I like how the voice of a Halo fan comes through in your articles. I've been following the series since the original game. It's rare to find media coverage that really resonates with my own experiences and engages subjects that a casual Halo player probably wouldn't have heard of.

With the gameplay stuff... I could have done an entire piece, so I kept it as objective as I could: the amount of hits I'm doing should be downing enemies the way they used to, but they don't. The enemies seem to be taking more damage, while I seem to be taking less. The amount of one-shot kills I took in that game was ridiculous compared to, uh... every other Halo. I liked it better when the only one-shots came from guys with swords who were very easy to see and prioritize, y'know? But, like... I could go forever on this angle.
I played Halo 5's campaign on Heroic my first time through, and quite honestly the Warden was the only enemy that felt unfair. I was so happy when the Promethean enemies, which I hated in Halo 4, turned out to be much less annoying and bullet spongey in Halo 5. To me, the gameplay improvements were significant and immediately apparent. The game feels right. The enemies are, for the most part, challenging but manageable on Heroic.

I wrote more or less live impressions of my initial playthrough, if you're interested to see how I reacted to the campaign as a Halo fan who was prepared to give up on the series if Halo 5 didn't right most of Halo 4's mistakes. I was surprised to find that Halo 5 hugely surpassed my expectations, and actually addressed all of my major complaints about Halo 4's campaign.
 

Random17

Member
That is why Reach is so great.
Auh... No. HaloGAF scapegoating lore fans for 343i's mistakes is the silliest thing I've seen in years.

Halo 5 has even fewer references to the EU than Halo 4 and is worse. Explain?

Frankly Bungie's best stories were CE and 2, which did less to ignore the EU compared to the other games.
 

Sordid

Member
Isnt that true for most MP [Shooter] games? And every previously released Halo? where dedicated servers were not even a thing?

I don't play much CoD so this gen most of my shooter time has been given to Titanfall and Battlefield which let you specifically choose EU servers and they're all dedicated. I was expecting a similar experience from Halo 5 (especially when 343 said before release you could choose your data center like Titanfall which they unfortunately went back on before launch).

If you take into account the old Halo games I'm pretty sure HaloGAF threads way back when were rife with requests for dedi's to be implemented too so it's not like connection complaints are new to Halo or GAF. Having dedi's is great but when you get matched into servers thousands of miles away the benefits start to disappear.
 

pieface

Member
To anyone having issues getting past the loading screen, I had a similar problem and this is how I fixed it.

Removing my kinect.

Something is bodged in the latest dash update which makes my xbox go slow a turgid with the Kinect plugged in (my second Xbox is fine, weird!). Unplugging the kinect (or turning it off) made things go much faster and Halo would load correctly.

Don't know if this will be the same issue you have but it certainly worked for me.
 

Trup1aya

Member
I just don't get the ranking systems. I mean what's even the point of the divisions if you're going to put everyone from onyx to gold together? I'm talking about the emblems. Or maybe people were placed too high and just can't drop down and need to be re-ranked etc.

You'd you only played against people of equal rank, how would you ever improve?

All of the old halo's would mix up the rankings as well...
 
If you found Halo 5 to be more difficult than previous games in the series you were probably not exploring levels much. That's all I can really think of, even Legendary was completely manageable once I appreciated that most encounters have quite a few ways to approach them, including skipping them completely. Halo 5 is probably the most enjoyable Legendary experience since CE for me (I'd have to replay 3 to really say for sure though, cause I mainly just remember what a nightmare Cortana was). Even the friendly AI are very useful once you begin using them more as revival machines that can destroy single targets when marked than as a genuine "fireteam"... Giving them power weapons allows them to be very effective against knights for example. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I don't think it's realistic to expect them to be human-like in their behaviour without scripting them through encounters which just isn't what Halo is about (I do wish they could sort out the glitch where they refuse to revive you). Halo 3 marines which people like to mention are just as bad if not worse, and are actually more heavily scripted in the encounters they are "expected" to take part in.

I like Reach and just recently replayed it on Heroic, but it's a bit silly to complain about bullet sponge soldiers when the Reach elites can take what feels like an entire DMR clip to their shields. Sure you can counter that with the noob combo, but it doesn't allow for as much experimentation with the weapon sandbox as the other games IMO. Halo 3 is still the best in this regard.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Sure thing. I like how the voice of a Halo fan comes through in your articles. I've been following the series since the original game. It's rare to find media coverage that really resonates with my own experiences and engages subjects that a casual Halo player probably wouldn't have heard of.

I played Halo 5's campaign on Heroic my first time through, and quite honestly the Warden was the only enemy that felt unfair. I was so happy when the Promethean enemies, which I hated in Halo 4, turned out to be much less annoying and bullet spongey in Halo 5. To me, the gameplay improvements were significant and immediately apparent. The game feels right. The enemies are, for the most part, challenging but manageable on Heroic.

I wrote more or less live impressions of my initial playthrough, if you're interested to see how I reacted to the campaign as a Halo fan who was prepared to give up on the series if Halo 5 didn't right most of Halo 4's mistakes. I was surprised to find that Halo 5 hugely surpassed my expectations, and actually addressed all of my major complaints about Halo 4's campaign.

In my ideal world, if anyone from 343 reads it, they go "yes, totally." In a more realistic world, I'm hoping I never did anything that felt unfair or gotcha to 343. I had a bit that was like "hey, I don't own the series, and they do, so for me, I'll just stop buying Halo games and we go our separate ways," but it got cut.

Like, I really fucking love four of the first five games, and I'm starting to understand some things about Halo 2, and I would kill for the opportunity to make Halo in the future, but I also vehemently disagree with the direction it's taking. I just hope I didn't come across as disrespectful or malicious in anything I did. I don't wanna sound like an RPGCodex guy. I don't particularly like the "kotaku shits on..." post for that reason. I wasn't trying to shit on 343, it's just something I care a lot about and wanted to explain my point of view about.

Your impressions are strange. So many mirror my own, and yet... not.

Auh... No. HaloGAF scapegoating lore fans for 343i's mistakes is the silliest thing I've seen in years.

Halo 5 has even fewer references to the EU than Halo 4 and is worse. Explain?

Frankly Bungie's best stories were CE and 2, which did less to ignore the EU compared to the other games.

Oh, I'm a weird fart who hates EUs in pretty much all fiction. Don't take my ribbing on that front too much. The serious stuff I had to say about Halo 5 and the EU is stuff I put into a 3200 word article for Kotaku.

If you found Halo 5 to be more difficult than previous games in the series you were probably not exploring levels much. That's all I can really think of, even Legendary was completely manageable once I appreciated that most encounters have quite a few ways to approach them, including skipping them completely. Halo 5 is probably the most enjoyable Legendary experience since CE for me (I'd have to replay 3 to really say for sure though, cause I mainly just remember what a nightmare Cortana was). Even the friendly AI are very useful once you begin using them more as revival machines that can destroy single targets when marked than as a genuine "fireteam"... Giving them power weapons allows them to be very effective against knights for example. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I don't think it's realistic to expect them to be human-like in their behaviour without scripting them through encounters which just isn't what Halo is about (I do wish they could sort out the glitch where they refuse to revive you). Halo 3 marines which people like to mention are just as bad if not worse, and are actually more heavily scripted in the encounters they are "expected" to take part in.

I like Reach and just recently replayed it on Heroic, but it's a bit silly to complain about bullet sponge soldiers when the Reach elites can take what feels like an entire DMR clip to their shields. Sure you can counter that with the noob combo, but it doesn't allow for as much experimentation with the weapon sandbox as the other games IMO. Halo 3 is still the best in this regard.

I can see your argument for Halo 3 for sure. Elites definitely were the most spongey enemies in the game.

My issues with the difficulty largely come down to hits that enemies appear to be able to take (again, an entire squad should NOT fail to kill an elite, period, when I order them to), coupled with the hits I take. In no universe should a soldier down me with a single punch on heroic, much less take half an AR clip and some shotgun to the face. That was the most egregious case. It's not so much about how hard or easy it feels to me, or whether I'm exploring the maps properly (I am, trust me; it's how I play), but in terms of like "I feel like with this many trigger pulls, that guy would be dead in other Halo games."

A friend pointed out this MAY have been due to some of these encounters being done in co-op, but, at the same time, we'd just been playing co-op Legendary Halo CE, and it wasn't nearly as frustrating.
 
My issues with the difficulty largely come down to hits that enemies appear to be able to take (again, an entire squad should NOT fail to kill an elite, period, when I order them to), coupled with the hits I take. In no universe should a soldier down me with a single punch on heroic, much less take half an AR clip and some shotgun to the face. That was the most egregious case. It's not so much about how hard or easy it feels to me, or whether I'm exploring the maps properly (I am, trust me; it's how I play), but in terms of like "I feel like with this many trigger pulls, that guy would be dead in other Halo games."

A friend pointed out this MAY have been due to some of these encounters being done in co-op, but, at the same time, we'd just been playing co-op Legendary Halo CE, and it wasn't nearly as frustrating.

Fair enough. Again though, Reach has exactly the same issue in the squad levels, and in my experience targeting an elite in 5 usually ends up with him dead in a couple of seconds unless he's far away.

One thing I have noticed is that enemies in 5 notice and react to the player much faster than in previous games which makes it more difficult to play aggressively. This isn't helped by everything being balanced around being able to be revived and that doesn't work if you're already surrounded by enemies. You really need to use flanking routes and spartan abilities if you want to shotgun elites in the face on Heroic and it's pretty much suicidal on solo Legendary. It's a different style of gameplay but the sandbox works well for it so I don't mind.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I was playing yesterday and they could two-hit you on Heroic, not one-hit. They were pretty annoying, which is why they were less annoying in future Halo games.

Promethean snipers are far more obvious than H2 Jackals, though. It's not a totally reductive choice. Haven't died to them at all my second play through on heroic.

Fair enough. Again though, Reach has exactly the same issue in the squad levels, and in my experience targeting an elite in 5 usually ends up with him dead in a couple of seconds unless he's far away.

One thing I have noticed is that enemies in 5 notice and react to the player much faster than in previous games which makes it more difficult to play aggressively. This isn't helped by everything being balanced around being able to be revived and that doesn't work if you're already surrounded by enemies. You really need to use flanking routes and spartan abilities if you want to shotgun elites in the face on Heroic and it's pretty much suicidal on solo Legendary. It's a different style of gameplay but the sandbox works well for it so I don't mind.

Yeah in Reach the Shotgun and CQC were utterly useless because you were asking to be drop-kicked in the face. Better to sit back and kill everything with a DMR, which was just boring to me.

In comparison, while you can't rumble as heavily with the Prometheans, a lot more weapons are a lot more effective at various ranges.

The Ai is usually very good at quickly taking down targets, but they have to not be heavily engaged and if you point them at something far away, they'll get ripped to shreds. On Legendary you have to baby them a bit but given power weapons and judicial use of commands they can wreck what comes your way. Probably best to think about them as respawnable Marine AI than Spartans, really, and treat them as such.

As for the story criticisms, I can't take anything seriously when the main thrust of your argument is "I liked it when I was a Big Damn Hero and now the world is all shades of grey." There's certainly arguments to be made against 343's storytelling, but that you have to consider that Master Chief is the product of a monstrous military experiment isn't one of them. That Halsey can be the savior of the human race while doing some nasty shit (which Nylund never really called her out on, moreso than 343 has pinned everything on her) is more akin to The Way The World Works.

You want to play Star Wars, where good guys are good and bad guys are bad. Got it.
 

jem0208

Member
DocSuess, you wrote a technically solid article, but I disagree with damn near everything and mostly for one reason:

You have based your entire vision of Halo and what it's supposed to be on this notion of HEROISM. It's almost as if you fell for the ONI propaganda that surrounds Spartans, that they're super powerful and save their fellow soldiers in a pinch and that Halo theme with the pulsating drums in the background makes us feel like we're doing God's work.

But if there's anything that Halo represents, beyond the fact that EVERYTHING WAS THE FLOOD, it's that humans are and have always been their own worst enemies. You said that you couldn't stand that John-117 had been made a walking war crime or that Dr. Halsey made a mad scientist, but ... are you serious?

You're talking about a woman who scoped out 75 six-year old children (through vaccination of all things), kidnapped them, replaced them in their families with flash clones DOOMED TO DIE. Let me repeat that for you. Kidnapped kids, replaced them with doomed mirror children. Augmented beyond human capacity, causing 30 to die (STILL KIDS HERE) and 12 to be crippled and washed out.

You don't want to think of John-117 as a walking war crime? Boo hoo. That's too bad. He is. Every single Spartan II was a war crime. No amount of whitewashing will change that. You're wearing rose-tinted glasses. Bungie never truly addressed the moral issues surrounding the Spartan II project and 343i, though still not where they need to be narrative-wise, have shown a greater degree of respect to the fact than I ever really anticipated.

You don't think that Cortana's motivations make sense? Fine. But let's not forget that AIs have always had the bigger picture in mind and have never hesitated to take things into their own hands if given the power to. See Mendicant Bias for more. I'm not saying she's right, or that the execution around her return and her plan are flawless, but they work, in the grand scheme of things.

I've stated in this very thread and others that I think there was issues with the narrative and character development in Halo 5, so I don't need to do that again right now. But Bungie's Halo trilogy dismissed the Master Chief's humanity and the sticky, unethical moral ramifications of the Spartan II program almost completely. You don't like 343's Halo? There are many that don't.

But to act as if the ugly background of the central characters doesn't count just because it doesn't make you feel "MASTER CHIEF, HECK YEAH" is damn near disingenuous. What it says is that you don't love the actual story of Halo, you just love a certain feeling you associated with earlier games and are not happy that feeling has dispersed since the propaganda has ended.
+1

The complaints essentially seemed to boil down to "I don't get to be a hero anymore? This sucks" which is one of the worse complaints I've seen about 343's stories.

I could have done a whole section on how and why the level design took a nosedive in 4 and 5.
Whut?

H5's level design is easily some of the best in the series. The on foot combat spaces are so well designed. Large, very vertical and varied. The design of the on foot spaces in combination with the use of the Spartan abilities allowed for some very creative approaches to encounters. I will admit

Combat was far faster paced, dashing in and out of cover, less bullet spongey enemies (I don't know what you were talking about in your article...), far more room for movement etc.

Honestly though, the entire section of the article discussing H5's gameplay is baffling to me.

In Bungie’s Halo games running around punching aliens in the face made me feel like a champion. I don’t feel like that in 343’s games. I feel like I’m supposed to play it like Battlefield or Call of Duty, relying on cover and standing still
This couldn't be further from my experience. The vast majority of my time in 5 was far more up close and personal than the previous games. Sprint, thrusters and the level design meant that I could jump into the middle of a group of enemies, take a few of them out and get out of there. It was more fast paced and dynamic than any other Halo. I was constantly strafing and dodging around enemies, climbing up high and ground pounding a group of grunts, gettingI up close and taking elites out with melee. I very rarely felt the need to go and hide behind cover and it never felt like I was playing CoD or BF.

Here's a couple of clips I just grabbed of how I'd typically play. This is on Heroic by the way:
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Il MeanBean lI/video/12932909

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Il MeanBean lI/video/12932917

Also this comment right here
The same is true of Halo 5 on Heroic. I once unloaded half a clip from a BR, a shotgun round or two, and a punch into a Forerunner Soldier’s face.
is straight up bullshit. On heroic a soldier is a 5 shot with the BR.

Here is video proof of that: http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Il MeanBean lI/video/12932365

Honestly it sounds like you're playing the game completely wrong, or you're not good enough to play it right. Try dropping the difficulty down to Normal and run around as much as you can, use the verticality and level design to your advantage, get into the middle of enemies and use your thruster. The game is so much fun when you play it properly.


Edit: this isn't to say it's perfect. The Warden fights aren't great, the squad AI sucks and there's not enough vehicle levels. The rest of the gameplay is superb though.
 
That is why Reach is so great.

While I enjoy Reach's campaign for its gamplay and just ignore the butchering of the canon that took place there, you can't go around dismissing 343 for changing details and interpretations of the canon and then praise Reach for the exact same thing.
 

BokehKing

Banned
Bungie gave a massive FU to lore fans with Reach, always remember Reach.
Because they didn't want that lore dictating their game, they wanted their stories to dictate the universe, not the other way around. Couple posts up someone wrote a great post about it.
 
Your impressions are strange. So many mirror my own, and yet... not.

I think that is one of the major difficulties that 343 have in taking over this series, as it means so many different things to so many different people. So you might be absolutely on the page with a few folk about one aspect, but then wildly at odds about another.

When you factor that in, 343 really had a tough deal to take over from Bungie, as Bungie left them a series that has 5 VERY different games (both from Campaign and Multiplayer).
They can't please all the people at the time, not even close. So all they can do is try and make the games and stories that THEY want to do that they think will work.

I'm very encouraged by LOTS of things in Halo 5; as I've said before, I think 343 made a lot of mistakes in Halo 4 and they corrected nearly all of them in Halo 5 IMO; that's great progress, because they are learning. Are tthey still making some mistakes? Ansolutely, but they are still experimenting to see what 'sticks' as well IMO, and it's inevitable that some stuff won't stick.

I think your position is quite an interesting one as you evidently have very strong opinions on how a narrative and story should work, and that colours your view on things. Bungie's style of story/narative execution (ignore the lore, concentrate on the game mostly) seems to suit what you value from the game; it's interesting that you dislike Halo 2 the most as IMO it's EASILY the worst execution of a narative/plot in the whole series (yes including 4 and 5).

On the other side Bungie also have IMO the best narative execution in the series with Halo 3: ODST, which I think was a bit of an experiment for them.

This leads me to where I think 343 made some missteps in handling Halo series. Personally I think they should have done a few experiments first, along the ODST lines.

Halo : ONI with Locke and Osiris, build up those characters, make it epsiodic or something.

Halo : Swords - play as Sangheili commando squads

There is any number of things 343 could have done to experiment with storytelling, character building and gameplay ideas away from the main game series.

Of course, it's unlikely Microsoft would have let this happen, but I think it would have been the best thing.

Halo 5 though is a huge improvement on Halo 4 in terms of gameplay, enemy feedback and design, encounters and missions. The narative execution is still flawed (and indicative to me of late changes / cuts), but it's getting better, and I think the plot has left the Halo universe in a MUCH better state for 343 to move forward with.

I at least am more interested in Halo 6 from a plot perspective than I was with Halo 5.
 
While I enjoy Reach's campaign for its gamplay and just ignore the butchering of the canon that took place there, you can't go around dismissing 343 for changing details and interpretations of the canon and then praise Reach for the exact same thing.

Amen, that's a great point. I hated Reach when it came out, I've warmed a bit to it but it's still hard to playthrough it knowing how much it retcons.
 
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