• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Tim Sweeney: Epic Games Store is making the industry better but “gamers don't see that”

Bullet Club

Member
Epic Games Store is making the industry better but “gamers don't see that”

CEO Tim Sweeney addresses backlash against exclusivity deals, promises human curation to block “shock controversy games” like Rape Day

It must have been satisfying for Epic Games to see the PC sales figures for Metro Exodus.

The post-apocalyptic shooter was arguably the first major new release for the Epic Games Store, and certainly the first high-profile exclusive. The company proudly declared during its GDC keynote that Metro Exodus sold more than 2.5 times the amount its predecessor Metro Last Light did through Steam.

As we observed earlier this week, there are limits to how much this tells us about how well the store has been established, but at the very least it proves Epic is doing something right. In fact, CEO Tim Sweeney tells us the game performed, "way beyond our expectations."

"A critical challenge from the beginning has been looking at projects on Steam and asking how we can achieve those levels of success on our store," he says. "Metro Exodus far exceeded even Steam projections in sales, and this really proves that it's about the games, not about the stores."

But for some in the PC gaming community, it is very much about the stores. Metro Exodus' exclusivity deal provoked the ire of devoted Steam fans, who have complained and even resorted to the usual tactic of review bombing the previous Metro games on Valve's store.

It's not the only example, either. Snapshot Games was also criticised for making its upcoming strategy game Phoenix Point temporarily exclusive to the Epic Games Store.

When asked for his take on these reactions, Sweeney reiterated the aim of the Epic Games Store is, "breaking the 70/30 stranglehold that's pervaded the industry for more than a decade," and that its methods in doing so were never going to please everyone.

"Changing the way that games are sold is a big disruption to everybody," he says. "I understand that -- I've personally unsubscribed from Netflix twice as their selections of movies changed. But this is a necessary step forward for the games industry if we want to enable developers to invest in building better games, and if we want the savings to ultimately be passed on to gamers in the form of better prices.

"Ultimately, this is about making the industry a better place, starting with the terms available for developers. I understand gamers don't see that. They don't see the hardship of making a payroll and seeing the store suck out 30% of the revenue from it. It can be jarring to see the industry is changing in ways that are typically invisible to us as gamers."

Epic isn't about to hold back on those exclusivity deals. At this week's keynote alone, it announced an expanded partnership with Ubisoft (although it's been left to the Assassin's Creed publisher to share details), plus exclusives from Take-Two label Private Division and the rights to the PC debut of Quantic Dream's PlayStation titles.

It's worth noting these exclusives aren't technically exclusive any more, with Epic partnering with Humble Bundle to enable all games to be sold on the Humble Store as well. Sweeney says Epic is also open to, "working with other highly reputable stores to enable more options as well," although this is unlikely to instantly quell the frustration that has been growing among certain Steam users over the past few months.

The CEO adds: "It's important for game developers to hold strong and sometimes be willing to go through criticism as we do things that are necessary for the industry."

With such strong support from developers and publishers after the first three months, Epic Games is confident it can win over more partners -- even those, like Electronic Arts, who are trying to establish their own stores.

"The key for them is they want a direct relationship with their customers and a fair share of the revenue from their games," Sweeney says. "They build their own ecosystems because they felt they weren't getting the deal they deserved on Steam.

"The world deserves lots of stores. It's all very healthy for the industry to see lots of competition on lots of different fronts. Just look at all the gamers who installed Origins for the first time to play Apex Legends, all the Korean gamers who probably installed Steam for the first time to play PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds. Great games drive stores."

It turns out free games also drive stores, as Epic announced its first free offering -- Unknown Worlds' Subnautica -- was downloaded more than 4.5 million times during the two-week promotion, and Monomi Park's Slime Rancher is currently on track to beat it.

"The free games have been a huge success, much bigger than expected," says Sweeney. "We've gone around working with game developers and paid them for the opportunity to release their games for free for two weeks. That's brought in a huge number of new gamers.

"The wonderful thing is we're bringing in new gamers to the Epic Games Store more economically than we would if we paid Facebook or Google for ads. Instead of ads, free games are driving the store forward."

Sweeney is keen to get as many titles onto the Epic Games Store as possible, but this ambition is still tempered by the desire to offer a high-quality catalogue. Given the recent controversy over visual novel Rape Day and Valve's slow response, the Epic CEO is quick to assure such a title will never appear on his store.

"We are going to maintain a reasonable quality standard for games," he says. "It'll be open to games of all sizes, but not the junky asset flips or shock controversy games that are built just to make noise. PC is an open platform; there are lots of stores, so I don't feel like any particular store has a moral obligation to carry low quality or highly controversial projects."

Does this mean the Epic Games Store will have a greater focus on curation than Valve's marketplace, with more effort placed on monitoring what developers submit?

"Absolutely," Sweeney concludes. "This needs to be a human process that takes quality into account so the customers can trust us to supply good games."

Source: gameindustry.biz
 

Raph64

Member
It's like carbon monoxide. You can't see that either.

Epic Games Store interest in a nutshell :

f7d6d94420d1bd2475e027c277cd3f466e40f670860ae50acd1d4be5011152ab.jpg
 
Last edited:

DanielsM

Banned
What the world needs is more "Platforms"? They say competition is good, well industries that crash are good as well.
 
Last edited:

LordRaptor

Member
Epic are literally rolling the PC sales space back to where it was somewhere around 5-10 years ago.
In 5-10 years time, if their storefront is a success, they'll have all the same fucking problems Steam had then.
Problems with curation, and complaints about bad titles getting in and good titles being rejected.
Problems with discoverability, and it being impossible to find your personal interests organically.
Problems with developers feeling the epic store could be doing more to push their titles over other titles.

Then they either invent a solution literally nobody else has ever managed to come up with, or they start reinventing the wheel they're shitting on Valve for inventing to try and alleviate hose issues.

Like... the past doesn't vanish because it didn't happen to you, and you can't pretend you won;t have those exact same fucking problems following the literal exact course other people did before you.

e:
Like... name me a storefront that hasn't given away free games to lure a userbase.
And that hasn't made attempts at curation, and then been criticised by the makers of successful titles elsewhere that their title was rejected by those curation policies.
And that for all their vaunted curation doesn't have any widely considered trash titles for sale.
 
Last edited:

daveonezero

Member
Does anyone see Gaben just sitting at his big ass 4K monitor knives all around as he is laughing at this bull shit

All he has to do is send one email and Steam can change it’s whole model and undercut Epic.

Epic is being very arrogant and I don’t think they understand that in a digital marketplace it’s not like it’s hard to change how payouts are done.

Not to mention all these comments seem to be for developed and saying gamers (epics actual customers) are stupid and can’t make decisions for themselves. That is never a good strategy. Your customers are probably always smarter than you think

Comparing the last metro game to the new one is laughable too. Could it be its just a better game?
 
Last edited:

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
He's only 50% correct.

He's definitely making things better for "The Industry" i.e. the collection of publishers, IP holders, and millionaires who hold sway over this market.

He's wrong when he says "gamers don't see that". Oh. They do. They see exactly what Epic is doing, which is why they don't like it.
 

renzolama

Member
This game that had 10x more marketing and hype than its predecessor sold 2.5x more than its predecessor! Undeniable proof that the Epic store is the best you guys!
 
Last edited:
He's only 50% correct.

He's definitely making things better for "The Industry" i.e. the collection of publishers, IP holders, and millionaires who hold sway over this market.

He's wrong when he says "gamers don't see that". Oh. They do. They see exactly what Epic is doing, which is why they don't like it.

Exactly. We perfectly see that what is doing for developers is done at a cost for gamers
 

Teslerum

Member
We know whats best for you! Honest!

You are just a complete idiot who doesnt know whats best!

NOW SHOP IN OUR STORE.
 
Last edited:

CeeJay

Member
Tim Sweeney said:
“gamers don't see that”.

Yeah something else I don't choose to see is what's on the rest of your store when I login to claim the free games you're giving me :D

You may think you are increasing your userbase but the minute you stop giving me free games i'm in the wind.
 

Salvatron

Member
I don't really care about it anymore. I've given up. The bums lost, Mr. Lebowski. THE BUMS LOST! I'm already forced to go through uplay for any of their titles regardless of which platform I purchased it through.. eventually we'll be pushed into a Stradia style future where consumers have zero ownership because in the end, none of this is FOR the consumer.. it's all about making us pay to provide the megacorps with our user data for maximum manipulation and profit. Big Data fueling a hyper capitalist AI system that machine learns it's way into monetizing our daily life down to the DNA of our black hearts. We're fucked. It's all downhill from here, boys.
 

halfHedge

Neo Member
You know, his behavior reminds me a bit of that of an abusive husband or father. "Only I know what's best for you and in the end, you will thaaaank me! You ungrateful f**ks!"
They could have pumped all that money in a campaign that makes you WANT to switch to the epic store. With great incentives and a good feeling for "changing the industry". And his constant point of the store being good for developers just reiterates the point, that it is bad for the consumer.
I can just hope that all of the "PC-elitist" and members if the "master race" come out again revolt against this stuff as obnoxiously as they can.
 
No matter what this POS says, I ain't buying shit on this fuckin' store even if it's KOTOR 3. Yeah, I'm dead fuckin' serious!
 

BlackTron

Member
Well given Tencent's involvement with Epic, any game exclusive to their storefront is simply one I won't play, even if I was previously interested in it.

There are simply too many good games to play already for me to have to pay for the privilege of installing software on my computer from a shady Chinese company.

Hell, after Halo comes out on Steam I say fuck all anyway. I'm good.
 

Hinedorf

Banned
What fucking idiots we are for not realizing Epic is doing this all for us! How shortsighted we've been just ASSUMING they were in the business of making money.

Even if this were a reality, Epic still has shitty content.
 

johntown

Banned
Not for PC gamers it's not. While is has some benefit for publishers it gives a big middle finger to gamers.

Exclusivity for multi-platform games does not help the industry one bit. All it does is show that some companies care more about a few extra dollars than their fans.

There are costs to doing business and steam is one of them. Before steam there were DVD's and cases that had to be bought. I have no issue with them offering more money to publishers or better deals as that is just competition. I take issue with the exclusively and forcing people to use their platform.
 
I find it odd that they were more than happy to trot out actual numbers for the freebie games but when it comes to Metro they fall back on PR speak. I personally think they are including the Steam pre-orders that went through in that number to make the 2.5X statement.
 

Kadayi

Banned
After the VGAs I thought, ok let's give this thing a shot so downloaded it and installed, but frankly, from a user perspective, it's a piece of shit and even with the updates they carried out, it's still a piece of shit, and based on their Roadmap, it's still going to be a piece of shit in a years time. After the spyware details came out I uninstalled it because frankly even if I'm only firing it up once every couple of weeks to get the latest free game, I'm not interested in having it snooping around my machine poking its nose into places it's not wanted. Maybe down the road, I might give it a re-evaluation, but the truth of the matter is, I'm not so beholden to the new release zeitgeist that I necessarily need to jump on every new game straight away. I'm happy to wait because in large part these days most games require some degree of patching and post-release support and I'd rather wait for that to occur and then grab the game when it comes out eventually on a store I can get behind.

In truth, I think there's a lot of bluster here from Sweeney, but I don't doubt that EGS could well be a viable storefront, but I'm not necessarily convinced at this juncture that it's one I'm personally prepared to put money into from a user perspective as someone who's been using Steam for 15 years and actively uses its features on a regular basis. Also, I find it a little bit off that his hitting Steam for being 'greedy' with the 30% cut (which isn't even accurate these days for all titles) , even though that's been standard across most digital stores, yet even if Valve were tomorrow to match the 12% of EGS, they'd still be at a financial disadvantage because Epic is moneyhatting all of those exclusives with a guaranteed income on top during that year-long deal with their Fortnite money.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
It's the gamers fault now? Not a good look starting to blame your potential customer base.

It's about making Epic Games even richer, first and foremost.

Put a muzzle on this guy, I think he's losing it.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
He's only 50% correct.

He's definitely making things better for "The Industry" i.e. the collection of publishers, IP holders, and millionaires who hold sway over this market.

He's wrong when he says "gamers don't see that". Oh. They do. They see exactly what Epic is doing, which is why they don't like it.

This.
 

Teslerum

Member
It's the gamers fault now? Not a good look starting to blame your potential customer base.

It's about making Epic Games even richer, first and foremost.

Put a muzzle on this guy, I think he's losing it.

He lost it long ago as he also was strongly opposed to the windows store.

I have no doubt in my mind that he thinks he fixed all the problems with the current storefronts. Not made them worse.

Hypocracy at its finest.
 
Last edited:

TheUsual

Member
After the VGAs I thought, ok let's give this thing a shot so downloaded it and installed, but frankly, from a user perspective, it's a piece of shit and even with the updates they carried out, it's still a piece of shit, and based on their Roadmap, it's still going to be a piece of shit in a years time. After the spyware details came out I uninstalled it because frankly even if I'm only firing it up once every couple of weeks to get the latest free game, I'm not interested in having it snooping around my machine poking its nose into places it's not wanted. Maybe down the road, I might give it a re-evaluation, but the truth of the matter is, I'm not so beholden to the new release zeitgeist that I necessarily need to jump on every new game straight away. I'm happy to wait because in large part these days most games require some degree of patching and post-release support and I'd rather wait for that to occur and then grab the game when it comes out eventually on a store I can get behind.

In truth, I think there's a lot of bluster here from Sweeney, but I don't doubt that EGS could well be a viable storefront, but I'm not necessarily convinced at this juncture that it's one I'm personally prepared to put money into from a user perspective as someone who's been using Steam for 15 years and actively uses its features on a regular basis. Also, I find it a little bit off that his hitting Steam for being 'greedy' with the 30% cut (which isn't even accurate these days for all titles) , even though that's been standard across most digital stores, yet even if Valve were tomorrow to match the 12% of EGS, they'd still be at a financial disadvantage because Epic is moneyhatting all of those exclusives with a guaranteed income on top during that year-long deal with their Fortnite money.


Your thoughts definitely echo mine on the future of the store. I do think it will find its place and be viable (whether I like it or not), but it needs a lot of features to make me think about purchasing from it. Cloud saves being number one for me(which I know are part of the road map). Epic is going to ride the their percentage cut until its no longer viable and they'll go quiet and refuse to talk about it. Unless they plan on subsidizing their Unreal engine earnings to cover the store's pay structure (who knows, it may be viable).
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Man please, being honest, I think they rode off of Metro’s momentum and it’s just great to have multiple stores, no reason to pick a ‘side’...
 

BlazinAm

Junior Member
I call bullshit. This man has proven multiple times that he is a lair. Last Light has been on Steam for ages with multiple sales. How has Exodus already sold 2.5 times that?

People have pointed out that the data doesn't include the redux version of these games. I think that the game (last light) came out at the wrong time and the redux was great way to get it out in front of people again.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
He lost it long ago as he also was strongly opposed to the windows store.

I have no doubt in my mind that he thinks he fixed all the problems with the current storefronts. Not made them worse.

Hypocracy at its finest.

I was on board with some of his criticisms then, since it wasn't hard to see that Microsoft wanted to turn Windows into an Apple-like platform, to basically eliminate competition, but that never caught on. But the way he's going about things, he does look like a hypocrite especially when it comes to moneyhatting.

Let games be on all storefronts and let the consumer decide. Not tell them they're wrong for deciding, lol.
 

Barakov

Member
He's really full of himself. Sweeney is just another in a long line of people to piss off potential customers because things aren't going his/Epic's/Tencent's way. Make no mistake Steam has its' own set of issues but I'll definitely pick up games there simply because a good portion of the time they put their customers first.
 
Last edited:

Teslerum

Member
I was on board with some of his criticisms then, since it wasn't hard to see that Microsoft wanted to turn Windows into an Apple-like platform, to basically eliminate competition, but that never caught on. But the way he's going about things, he does look like a hypocrite especially when it comes to moneyhatting.

Let games be on all storefronts and let the consumer decide. Not tell them they're wrong for deciding, lol.

It's funny though that it happens at a time where Microsoft puts HALO on Steam.
 
I believe him, but I don't want to have two libraries / DRM system running on my computer.

I just hope they put enough pressure on Steam to force changes (The main issue being that their 30% sales commission is on the high side).
 

Graciaus

Member
Nice pr talk. Other then the few crazy steam haters it's not good for anyone. Even he doesn't believe the crap spewing out of his mouth.
 

Kadayi

Banned
I just hope they put enough pressure on Steam to force changes (The main issue being that their 30% sales commission is on the high side).

They already did review it (back in December 2018) : -

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks#announcements/detail/1697191267930157838

Starting from October 1, 2018 (i.e. revenues prior to that date are not included), when a game makes over $10 million on Steam, the revenue share for that application will adjust to 75%/25% on earnings beyond $10M. At $50 million, the revenue share will adjust to 80%/20% on earnings beyond $50M. Revenue includes game packages, DLC, in-game sales, and Community Marketplace game fees. Our hope is this change will reward the positive network effects generated by developers of big games, further aligning their interests with Steam and the community.

So 30% on the first $10 Million, 25% on $10-50 Million and 20% on everything past that.


Tims banging that 30% Drum hard, but for the most part, he's not interested in the Developers of games that end up paying that. He wants those AAA titles.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom