Redstarwater
Neophyte
Things can be objectively bad. Like all the useless steam features.
I’m still blown away the mod worshop was described as a feature. It’s a detriment.
UPDATE?????????
UPDATE PLEASE!!???
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Tim Sweeney: Epic Games Store is making the industry better but “gamers don't see that”
- Thread starter Bullet Club
- Start date
Things can be objectively bad. Like all the useless steam features.
I’m still blown away the mod worshop was described as a feature. It’s a detriment.
UPDATE?????????
UPDATE PLEASE!!???
DynamiteCop!
Banned
No you're just not making any compelling point against things which are objectively good and most try to model their stores and systems after, and they all originated from Steam.
Threeshotgamer
Banned
The Mod Workshop has completely transformed some games and given them a much longer lifespan. But not just that it allows a sort of creative community to grow around some games like Planet Coaster. The creations that are posted into the workshop for that game are beyond amazing and it's cool that the creators of those things have a easily accessed avenue to share them right inside the platform that launches the game with full support in the game so others can easily download and try out those said creations. Just because you don't use a feature doesn't make it not a feature that a large majority use.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
I honestly wouldn't bother, he said something about Valve not innovating anything in decade and I made a reply with a lot of innovations Valve has added for quality of life and any one of them he just shot down.
It's not worth your time.
Like when going from big game boxes with big game manuals with backstory to DVD cases and the manuals in PDF form back in the day
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Paid exclusives on PC launchers. So innovative! Much pioneering!
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
There are also questions since Epic is largely backed by Tencent which is a Chinese mega-corp. That bundled with shady stuff their client does, like capture your Steam data if you have Steam installed on the same PC.
Racer!
Member
Ok, so its also a privacy issue.
Because If it was just about exclusives, I dont see how that would be different than any store/business model in history. Creators are free to sell their creations how and where they see fit, in a way that generates most profit.
The reason Steam hasnt done it, is because they have basically had a monopoly.
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
But how exactly are you generating more profit by artificially limiting your audience?
Windows PC is one platform, this isn't a console situation where some porting and costly work needs to be done to bring it somewhere else, it's unified. Arbitrarily holding your product back doesn't make any sense.
Racer!
Member
Thats the creators business. The market is supposed to take care of that. If they arent making the most profit, if they make bad business decisions, that means they could have made more profit. But its still their call.
So? The game still runs on every PC out there doesnt it?
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Yes but you're hamstrung into software platforms, their features or lack of them and policies.
Some are MUCH better than others.
Racer!
Member
Yes you are. Thats why we vote with our wallets. I just dont see how its any different from how any store is supposed to work.
UltimateUnknown
Member
As someone who doesn't play on PC very often, what exactly is the problem with the Epic store? I mean it's not like you have to pay any money to download the client to play their games, unlike consoles.
As someone from the outside looking in, I can see why devs would like to get their games on Epic rather than Steam as they get a bigger cut of the sales. But from what I can see the main issue is that the Epic store is lacking in features that Steam has. So if they fixed that, would the issues people have with games being on the Epic store go away? If so it seems like it would be easier for Epic to just shut up and get those features running rather than chatting all this BS. Or is this a case of some kind of loyalty people have with Steam like console players have with their respective platforms (though with PC it makes far less sense as the clients are all free anyway)?
As someone from the outside looking in, I can see why devs would like to get their games on Epic rather than Steam as they get a bigger cut of the sales. But from what I can see the main issue is that the Epic store is lacking in features that Steam has. So if they fixed that, would the issues people have with games being on the Epic store go away? If so it seems like it would be easier for Epic to just shut up and get those features running rather than chatting all this BS. Or is this a case of some kind of loyalty people have with Steam like console players have with their respective platforms (though with PC it makes far less sense as the clients are all free anyway)?
The Bloody-Nine
Member
People just like to have all of their games on the one launcher. Steam in this case. That's what it comes down to for most.
Racer!
Member
Yeah thats what I figured as well. Looking at sales numbers, its probably just a very vocal minority though.
RyuCookingSomeRice
Member
What sales numbers? Epic provided numbers that not even 5% of their userbase had downloaded the free games they give out. I highly doubt that the Epic userbase is buying games.
Racer!
Member
Dont know how relevant the numbers are. If they dont sell games, we`ll know soon enough.
lukilladog
Member
Metro exodus publisher said the exclusivity didn´t affect them, soon after that they suddenly moved to the windows store 
Racer!
Member
Metro exodus publisher said the exclusivity didn´t affect them, soon after that they suddenly moved to the windows store
After the deal expired? If so, thats not strange.
Nope, deal should still be on.
Racer!
Member
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lukilladog
Member
"Metro Exodus will return to Steam and on other store fronts after 14th February 2020. "
Ps.- I wonder how much it costed to Koch media to buy the contract with Epic
...Ps2.- Probably Sweeney gave it to them for free as long as they didn´t release on Steam
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The Bloody-Nine
Member
Nevermind.
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Racer!
Member
Letting creators keep more revenue is a good thing, no?
Tesseract
Banned
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Racer!
Member
more revenue in devs's pockets IS good, no argument there
Care to elaborate on those concerns?
To my understanding, there is a privacy issue which is not good of course. Then theres the exclusivity thing, which I dont see a problem with personally.
Tesseract
Banned
just feels slimy to me, devs are propping up a platform that is trying to buy its way to the top
on one hand i see the flaw in my argument, and i want to steel man yours because you're right, exclusivity shouldn't matter if the product is good
but the slime
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Racer!
Member
I see. Something about this thing rubs you the wrong way I guess. You may be right. Havent followed this closely myself.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
BlueLyria
Neo Member
Oh yes Mr. Tim "I'm rolling in fortnite kids and chinese government money" Sweeny, Gamers really enjoy not being able to buy their games on GOG or a key in other websites to activate on their service of choice, I really enjoy my options for buying games on EGS being the EGS and only that, not to mention that there's no regional pricing, so people outside of the United States get fucked with conversion fees, oh and that your store also makes the consumer pays the transaction fees.
A.Romero
Member
Steam has more features and that's a fact.
More money to the devs is great, no doubt.
As consumers we should be able to chose if we are willing to part with some features in order to help the devs.
When EGS pays for exclusives, devs are better off but it takes the choice from consumers. That's a sound business plan but it has 0 to do with making the market better. Tim is a dick for trying to spin it that way or painting Steam as the devil.
More money to the devs is great, no doubt.
As consumers we should be able to chose if we are willing to part with some features in order to help the devs.
When EGS pays for exclusives, devs are better off but it takes the choice from consumers. That's a sound business plan but it has 0 to do with making the market better. Tim is a dick for trying to spin it that way or painting Steam as the devil.
MiguelItUp
Member
Good for developers and publishers, sure. More money in their pockets. Good for consumers and fans? Not so much, at least not yet. I'm surprised they haven't bothered improving the Epic Game Store before landing/announcing more exclusives. Maybe then people would've taken it seriously. At least a little more.
Well people better speak their language (money) and not buy things from their store if they want this to go away. Otherwise people are just spewing empty rants. For an example when Borderlands 3 gets released, DON'T buy it. But we know people will make excuses to justify buying the game and of course other games like Journey, etc.
Steam doesn't control the supply of digital games or their content nor do they have methods in place to prevent other digital storefronts from being successful therefore they are not even "basically a monopoly".
Some people are in a bad habit of labeling successful businesses as a monopoly just because they are extremely successful. Epic is far more attempting monopolistic practices than Valve is by bribing for exclusives.
Yep, I'm a huge Borderlands series fan, but I will be waiting that 6 months and in other games, a year if I have too.
Hopefully Steam sales will still win out in that scenario. I am not even going to let Epic try to bribe me with their weekly free games. They can piss off.
Dirk Benedict
Member
Racer!
Member
Well, a by monopoly I meant extremely high market share, may have been an inaccurate description.
Valve is a creator and the owner of a store front. Can I buy Valve products on Windows store or Epic store, or do they they have methods in place to prevent that? Would they be fine with that? If not, in principal, thats no different.
Threeshotgamer
Banned
But now you are comparing Valve keeping their First party games on their platform to Epic moneyhatting 3rd party games at the very end of their development cycle.
Racer!
Member
Yes. But its a monopolistic practise. It prevents other storefronts from being successful by not being able to offer amazing Valve titles. If Valve was being completely honest about this, they would offer their titles on all stores. After all, the narrative from them is that features and customer satisfaction should be what decides.
Valve is smart as hell though. They know that for gamers this is religion, and portray themselves as saints.
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Kadayi
Banned
Racer!
Steam versus Epic Feature list: -
Even taking out the Jokey pop at Ten Cent, EGS is a pretty woeful gaming client compared to Steam in terms of features. Friendless misanthropes who rarely game on PC might not understand because they don't use any of these features, so in they myopic mind see no need for them, but anyone else who has spent any time using Steam understands how useful they are.
Racer!
Member
Steam versus Epic Feature list: -
Even taking out the Jokey pop at Ten Cent, EGS is a pretty woeful gaming client compared to Steam in terms of features. Friendless misanthropes who rarely game on PC might not understand because they don't use any of these features, so in they myopic mind see no need for them, but anyone else who has spent any time using Steam understands how useful they are.
Steam is probably better feature wise, not arguing there. (I wouldnt know though. Im first and foremost a console gamer)
Threeshotgamer
Banned
So you're argument is that since you can't play valve games on the EGS is what makes them dishonest and a monopoly? Why would Valve put games that they actually paid to develop on other platforms? For me that's the biggest problem with Sweeney trying to claim he's making the industry better is that he isn't putting all this money to develop new games or studios he is just snapping up games weeks or months before they are released. If they truly wanted to advance the industry he would be spending this money on actually developing games or building up studios instead of just writing a check and patting himself on the back.
Kadayi
Banned
But the point is, using Steam you get used to a certain comfort level in term of the features, as a customer. Epic's entire attitude seems to be 'fuck the customer'. They're trying to strong-arm people into using their inferior client through exclusives. When in truth they should have made a more robust feature rich client.
belteshazzar
Member
The more Tim talks, the more I dislike him
somerset
Member
Metro was an *utter disaster* on Epic Store, and 'saved' by moderate console sales. Then again the game, while a vast amount of hard work, was extremely mediocre. It didn't come close to Witcher, Skyrim or GTA (or even Stalker) in quality, being instead more like an interactive movie. But it would have made a ton more money on Steam.
I was on an Epic Store page a day ago, and my first thought was "where is all the info I need about the game?". It is an effing joke- a joke of a joke- a slap in the face of every consumer whose IQ reaches at least double digits. What kind of braindead scum lauds the Epic Store over Steam. I've never seen such a customer pleasing sales service as steam- Steam is a one-in-a-lifetime miracle of a catalogue, the impossibly rare example of Internet tech reaching full potential.
Ah- but the depraved neo-liberal, alt-left, fabian monsters howl their outrage at Steam allowing those that pay the bills to have a say.
Epic exists for one reason only- the sociopatic nature of John Carmack. Id had the massive lead, and Unreal (years before Unreal the game launched) was a pathetic joke- and I talk as probably the *only* person here who ran the first alpha of the engine on the day it was posted. But Carmack *hates* more talented coders than himself, and drove out of iD any coder who showed actual talent. As one of the three owners of iD, Carmack also insisted on a say about biz issues, the direction of game design and the direction of iDs future engines.
So Carmack *ruined* iD's ability to make engines worth using by third parties, and Epic simply stepped in. As a one-man-shop, Carmack could never compete with the sane many-man Epic team, even tho Carmack was vastly better than any of the coders at Epic in the early days.
Epic was an accidental success, simply claiming the established iD throne when Carmack crashed iD's ability to continue wearing the crown.
So Sweeney comes from a bad place in the first instance- and his current success, Fortnite, was actually down to people-can-fly, who left Epic before their code base morphed into the BR megasuccess.
Sweeney doesn't care about the health of the market, or the service given to gamers. He simply wants to be the most successful *cancer* - to infect and destroy for his own glory.
Today, like all evil corporations, he gives 'free sweets' to the 'children' to earn their 'loyalty' and to hurt established businesses attempting to operate on a profit basis. Intel tried the same thing against ARM in the phone and cheap tablet biz- illegally giving away its first decent generation of Atom chips to any company that would use them to build a phone or tablet. Once America enforced its laws against such illegal practices, but since the time of Bush/Clinton/Obama no longer.
But Steam is also a giant, and it is hard to see how Steam has reason to worry long term. Sure, cretins will praise Epic while Epic gives them freebies- but such mouth-breathers always behave thusly. Sweeney relies on moronic idiocy in 'customers', and self serving greed in devs and publishers. These two base qualities will always carry some sway. But long term, sane biz methods win out.
I was on an Epic Store page a day ago, and my first thought was "where is all the info I need about the game?". It is an effing joke- a joke of a joke- a slap in the face of every consumer whose IQ reaches at least double digits. What kind of braindead scum lauds the Epic Store over Steam. I've never seen such a customer pleasing sales service as steam- Steam is a one-in-a-lifetime miracle of a catalogue, the impossibly rare example of Internet tech reaching full potential.
Ah- but the depraved neo-liberal, alt-left, fabian monsters howl their outrage at Steam allowing those that pay the bills to have a say.
Epic exists for one reason only- the sociopatic nature of John Carmack. Id had the massive lead, and Unreal (years before Unreal the game launched) was a pathetic joke- and I talk as probably the *only* person here who ran the first alpha of the engine on the day it was posted. But Carmack *hates* more talented coders than himself, and drove out of iD any coder who showed actual talent. As one of the three owners of iD, Carmack also insisted on a say about biz issues, the direction of game design and the direction of iDs future engines.
So Carmack *ruined* iD's ability to make engines worth using by third parties, and Epic simply stepped in. As a one-man-shop, Carmack could never compete with the sane many-man Epic team, even tho Carmack was vastly better than any of the coders at Epic in the early days.
Epic was an accidental success, simply claiming the established iD throne when Carmack crashed iD's ability to continue wearing the crown.
So Sweeney comes from a bad place in the first instance- and his current success, Fortnite, was actually down to people-can-fly, who left Epic before their code base morphed into the BR megasuccess.
Sweeney doesn't care about the health of the market, or the service given to gamers. He simply wants to be the most successful *cancer* - to infect and destroy for his own glory.
Today, like all evil corporations, he gives 'free sweets' to the 'children' to earn their 'loyalty' and to hurt established businesses attempting to operate on a profit basis. Intel tried the same thing against ARM in the phone and cheap tablet biz- illegally giving away its first decent generation of Atom chips to any company that would use them to build a phone or tablet. Once America enforced its laws against such illegal practices, but since the time of Bush/Clinton/Obama no longer.
But Steam is also a giant, and it is hard to see how Steam has reason to worry long term. Sure, cretins will praise Epic while Epic gives them freebies- but such mouth-breathers always behave thusly. Sweeney relies on moronic idiocy in 'customers', and self serving greed in devs and publishers. These two base qualities will always carry some sway. But long term, sane biz methods win out.