Look for Creamsugar's posts. Also Eurogamer's KI @ 83K thing.
I believe the > 50K thing was a guesstimate, though we'd hope it wasn't below that kind of level.
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April 2012 NPD Sales Results [Up3: Best selling game sold less than 236K, Kid Icarus]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Look for Creamsugar's posts. Also Eurogamer's KI @ 83K thing.
I believe the > 50K thing was a guesstimate, though we'd hope it wasn't below that kind of level.
opticalmace
Member
Wow, what a shit month.
chickdigger802
Banned
Lol. The only thing I know about Easter is the candy goods at retail
And it's on Sunday.
Sohter.Nura
Member
The generation fatigue really has kicked in. I don't think everybody is panicking *yet*, but everybody is giving a really close look to the cycle right now.
The worse part is that most companies are in a catch-22. They can try to keep extending the life cycle for this gen and some might win while other lose, or they can try to jump the gun on next-gen and get there first, but with insane costs and a lot of risk.
not a good time to be a developer / publisher.
The worse part is that most companies are in a catch-22. They can try to keep extending the life cycle for this gen and some might win while other lose, or they can try to jump the gun on next-gen and get there first, but with insane costs and a lot of risk.
not a good time to be a developer / publisher.XBLA sales were dreadful before Trials, Fez and Minecraft.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
But we have new hardware right now, with the 3DS and Vita. They aren't lighting up the sales charts, even with the 3DS price drop. The "problem" with the North American retail market extends beyond IP and hardware gimmicks. Ignoring the elephant in the room (digital sales) is no longer an option for a realistic depiction of the market. And yes, that includes iOS/Android. There are 2 million gamers who paid $50 for CoD subscriptions, there are another million locked in KOTOR, there are hundreds of thousands who bought Journey, Minecraft, and Trials in the past 6 weeks. The console market is fundamentally and irreversibly changed from 2005.
ah, forgot that he didn't have DS in there at first and added it later.
Oh I agree, it probably sold around 4 million WW. Also I was under the impression that NPD does count bundles?
You guys keep asking about Xenoblade's sales in the USA. Xenoblade is a traditional JRPG, not named "Final Fantasy", on a system which has had very, very few non-casual non-Nintendo IP games sell in any number worth mentioning.
I'm incredibly tired of seeing this question come up because the answer is *common sense*. Of course it bombed. Nintendo KNEW it was going to bomb, hence not wasting resources rolling it out to the supply chain at large.
As far as the need for new consoles? Yes, they're needed, but what I haven't heard is a good explanation as to why. Relying on NPDs as a base to justify this change in the USA is COMPLETELY disingenuous, because as someone pointed out, Angry Birds Space was the top selling game in April. Sitting here and debating why Xbox game A, which sold 2% of the total sales of Angry Birds, vs. PS3 game B, which sold 1.5% of Angry Birds, is completely missing the forest from the trees.
This misguided rationale is why Sony, in yet another grand display of ineptitude, put out a handheld system targeted at a market that no longer exists. Lacking Nintendo's IPs and iOS's low price and selection of games, they stick this albatross out there for the hardest of hardcore gamers. And even so; for guys like us that pay attention to sales, it's not lost on us that the size of that market is not going to inspire widespread development. So given that, why would we want to buy this device either? The Vita has zero market, zero games, zero future.
The real shock is going to come when the next Xbox and next Playstation consoles drop, and it becomes apparent that the Vita was simply a warning sign of things to come. Sony and Microsoft's console introductions are going to mirror the godawful ultracasual Nintendo conference from 2008 or so, and then the GAF blindfolds will come off. The market is shifting to the casuals by a degree nobody saw, even after the Wii's year one. People console themselves with sales numbers put out by games like CoD, which if you think about it isn't that far removed from Angry Birds when it comes to casual accessibility.
I'm incredibly tired of seeing this question come up because the answer is *common sense*. Of course it bombed. Nintendo KNEW it was going to bomb, hence not wasting resources rolling it out to the supply chain at large.
As far as the need for new consoles? Yes, they're needed, but what I haven't heard is a good explanation as to why. Relying on NPDs as a base to justify this change in the USA is COMPLETELY disingenuous, because as someone pointed out, Angry Birds Space was the top selling game in April. Sitting here and debating why Xbox game A, which sold 2% of the total sales of Angry Birds, vs. PS3 game B, which sold 1.5% of Angry Birds, is completely missing the forest from the trees.
This misguided rationale is why Sony, in yet another grand display of ineptitude, put out a handheld system targeted at a market that no longer exists. Lacking Nintendo's IPs and iOS's low price and selection of games, they stick this albatross out there for the hardest of hardcore gamers. And even so; for guys like us that pay attention to sales, it's not lost on us that the size of that market is not going to inspire widespread development. So given that, why would we want to buy this device either? The Vita has zero market, zero games, zero future.
The real shock is going to come when the next Xbox and next Playstation consoles drop, and it becomes apparent that the Vita was simply a warning sign of things to come. Sony and Microsoft's console introductions are going to mirror the godawful ultracasual Nintendo conference from 2008 or so, and then the GAF blindfolds will come off. The market is shifting to the casuals by a degree nobody saw, even after the Wii's year one. People console themselves with sales numbers put out by games like CoD, which if you think about it isn't that far removed from Angry Birds when it comes to casual accessibility.
It tracks them as hardware and the software sales bundled are not added to the respective software total.
The information is available and you can add the numbers at your description, such as what Nintendo has been doing recently with Super Mario 3D Land.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
This is a Nintendo IP, though. And I don't think you can really narrow the definition very much without getting into some circuitous definition mess where you say "The only games that sell are the games that sell" in a roundabout sort of way.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Well, the PS3 saw its first price cut at the first E3 after it launched.
They count software if sold with hardware but not hardware sold with software.
nincompoop
Banned
So is it actually confirmed that the NPD didn't track Xenoblade, or was Eurogamer talking out of their ass? Maybe creamsugar could give us some insight?
Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned that because it was retailer-exclusive, NPD won't release the data (i.e. they can't give a private firm's confidential numbers out, and because Xenoblade was Gamestop only it would violate the terms of their data collection).
Or something along those lines. Can't remember who
Mr. B Natural
Member
It's not an established Nintendo IP and that was clearly the point he was trying to make. Very few people, unless you followed the game (for some strange reason) knew it was an Nintendo IP, either. And there's nothing really round-about about saying it's an "jrpg that isn't final fantasy, of course it wasn't going to sell." Can't really get more specific and laser focused than that.
EternalGamer
Banned
Well, no danger in CD Projeckt forgetting where their bread is buttered. I'd be surprised to see their next game on consoles after this.
Mr. B Natural
Member
Wow, quite a few folks are saying that the low numbers aren't surprising, but as a small business video game store owner, I'm blown away! We had a killer month of April.
You think long term, where everything was berries and cream, nintendo was unstoppable, games and hardware were selling at a record pace, and even Sony was rebounding. Yeah, it should be surprising to anyone that is honest with themselves.
And by "long term" I'm referring to 2 years ago...if that.
Father_Brain
Banned
In light of Sony's current financial state, until/unless Vita's software lineup improves dramatically for the better, the people who should most want a Vita price drop are those who want 3DS to be the only dedicated handheld on the market.
I used poor phrasing. It's technically Nintendo IP, but from a marketplace standpoint, it's irrelevant. How many famous Nintendo characters are in Xenoblade?
Nintendo is in a spot where Disney has been for decades. Their characters have been locked in since the 80s, so if they want games that blow the doors off, they have to feature those characters. Of course there are exceptions, but not many. Young and old kids want Donkey Kong, they want Mario, they want Zelda. Nobody is asking for Xenoblade.
That's why Sony is in a tough spot. Microsoft's brilliance was paying the money to acquire and market their Master Chief and Marcus Fenix. They wanted that hardcore gamer market, guys who wanted something with a harder edge than Mario, so they successfully created mascots for that market. Now how viable that market still is is up for debate, but there it is.
Sony is sunk because the PS3, and now Vita have no "signature" games. They have to attempt, yet again, to come up with games and characters that differentiate their systems from the competition. The PS3 this gen has become a third party console, with the first party games almost entirely marginalized, and that is not a great place to exist in the market. The fact that Uncharted is Sony's best, to the point where that was their big title they used to launch Vita and it still landed with a thud, has to be disheartening for them.
Cygnus X-1
Member
The industry is not healthy, for sure. Especially the handheld gaming is collapsing. Damned these smartphones.
I know you have a strong point when you blame smartphones for the Fall of handheld gaming but I really think the blame has to be put on 3DS and Vita, iOS only came to exacerbate things but the 3DS and Vita are quite frankly very poor products.
the DS and PSP blew tha GBA, the only other handhled worth looking at at that point in time, out of the water. You really had to own a DS and PSP because it was several leagues ahead of their time, specially PSP.
what are 3DS and Vita doing? Nothing, they are costly, boring extensions of their predecesors, that's not how you keep the industry healthy.
The company to make the most money this next gen is going to be the one who can crack the code of appealing to all markets, and give people the ability to play the same game from anywhere.
I suspect Blizzard's Project Titan is going to be such a game. I can play the "full" game on my PC, but also make progression on my phone, tablet, web browser at work when I have a few minutes to kill. Give people the ability to tune into the same game from wherever they are, and you will make a *lot* of money.
This is why CoD clones fail, and WoW clones fail. People don't want ENTIRELY new experiences, but they have to differentiate themselves enough to give consumers a reason to ditch the old games they're familiar with.
I don't know if it's collapsing but it's not as it once was. I'm sure we'll see very strong numbers in the months leading up to the holidays.
I think May will be the start of a better rest of the year.
Isn't 3DS is tracking ahead of DS though, in both hardware and software?
nincompoop
Banned
That's what it sold in ioi's magical fantasy land.
That's what Eurogamer said, but it sounds like bullshit to me.
AbsurdG3nius
Member
Given that they usually denote exact dates (last month's NPD covered 2/26 - 3/31), are these numbers just for April (4/1 - 4/30), or do they extend all the way until 5/5?
Granted, nothing really hit last week (Sniper Elite v2?), but I'm still curious about the number of days attributed to this report.
Anyone know?
Granted, nothing really hit last week (Sniper Elite v2?), but I'm still curious about the number of days attributed to this report.
Anyone know?
So far yes. As far as the 3DS concerned the US performance seems like a software problem (also a "people are still buying DSes" problem). You have the two Mario games but apparantly it's going to need to mature its library quite a bit more before it starts reaching its peak.
We'll have to see what NSMB, Pokemon, and whatever is on Nintendo's fall schedule do.
Well, right now 3DS is 1 million ahead of DS's first 14 months. And DS had 2 Holiday seasons ( both November and December ) in its first 14 months. So, that's not bad at all, but it needs to improve in the next months. Fortunately, there are big games coming, especially NSMB2, which comes out soon. And US is always slow in adopting new hardwares, that's a known fact.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Bad Vita numbers, needs a strong e3 to have much hope going forward in America and Europe.
I thought it was one million behind.
Hopefully KH3D and PM3D give the 3DS a boost. Not very confident about it being successful though unless Nintendo makes some super appealing casual software for it and they may feel that iOS would be able to too easily replicate any casual game they could make.
I thought it was one million behind.
Hopefully KH3D and PM3D give the 3DS a boost. Not very confident about it being successful though unless Nintendo makes some super appealing casual software for it and they may feel that iOS would be able to too easily replicate any casual game they could make.
To update my earlier post.
So it's
PSP < 50K? < Vita < DS < Wii < 100K? < 3DS < 150k < PS3 < 200k < 360
So Kid Icarus probably sold under 100K, but no less than the Vita which is somewhere above 50K.
Kid Icarus at 83K means Vita is between 50-83K
So it's
PSP < 50K? < Vita < DS < Wii < 100K? < 3DS < 150k < PS3 < 200k < 360
Kid Icarus at 83K means Vita is between 50-83K
Father_Brain
Banned
NOA has enough announced-but-undated titles on the way (Animal Crossing, LM2, Paper Mario, Layton 5, DQM3D, likely Fire Emblem and MH3G) that I'm reasonably confident that they'll be able to sustain a steadier flow of 3DS software beginning in the latter half of the year, with KH3D in July followed by NSMB2 a few weeks later.
May and especially June are probably going to be pretty rough, though.
May and especially June are probably going to be pretty rough, though.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
And I don't think KH3D will be tracked in the July NPD since it's releasing on the 31st so July could be poor as well.
August sales should be pretty great though.
April NPD was April 1-28 (4 weeks).
specialguy
Banned
Wii would have also sold between 66k-116k going by Wii+PS3=266k and PS3=150k-200k.
And then the apparent Wii <100k thing plus vita under 83k thing...we can narrow to 83k-100k, which narrows ps3 to...never mind i'm confused somebody else try
Anyways Wii <100k is shockingly bad too, even though all the attention is going to Vita's shockingly bad.
I have Wii at 172k for April 11, so maybe as much as ~50% decline.
The thing for Wii is all hardware is dropping so drastically, 360 is having a harder time catching it. I've been expecting 360 to pick up 200k/month average (2m) on Wii life to date in the ten months Jan-12/Oct 12, but with absolute numbers this low it's tough.
And then the apparent Wii <100k thing plus vita under 83k thing...we can narrow to 83k-100k, which narrows ps3 to...never mind i'm confused somebody else try
Anyways Wii <100k is shockingly bad too, even though all the attention is going to Vita's shockingly bad.
I have Wii at 172k for April 11, so maybe as much as ~50% decline.
The thing for Wii is all hardware is dropping so drastically, 360 is having a harder time catching it. I've been expecting 360 to pick up 200k/month average (2m) on Wii life to date in the ten months Jan-12/Oct 12, but with absolute numbers this low it's tough.
Complistic
Member
happy to see tw2 on there.
schwabdizzle
Banned
Prototype 2 #1? People must be desperate to get a new game.
AbsurdG3nius
Member
Thanks.
May has Midnight Purple and Mario Tennis Open. I think they'll do something for the platform. Nothing big, but probably they'll have an effect. More the new SKU than MTO, maybe.
June...eh, that could be a not good month.
I thought NSMB2 would be released around the holiday months or year-end. Is the new?
a Master Ninja
Member
It's not, think about it for a minute. Retailers only agree to share their sales data as long as what is released is totaled with every other retailer. They want to protect the sensitive data of how many copies they actually sold relative to their competitors.
Since Xenoblade was only sold from Gamestop, releasing those sales numbers would be a direct violation of NPD's agreement with them.
Indeed, I am. I mean, we still don't have a release date for Luigi's Mansion but we know NSMB2 release month.
ok i knew the vita numbers were bad but really i didn't expect any of this...
that's brutal...