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[Plinko]

How far is vita off the radar? I speak to people who owned PSP’s but they have no idea about the vita at all. I know many would of moved on from handheld gaming to smartphones/tablets but I can still talk to them about the 3DS and they always ask me what certain games are like on the 3DS or what the XL is like but nobody ever mentions the vita.

I really struggle to see how the fortunes of the vita will turn around. In every region it’s in trouble and those predictions by many which thought at $250.00 the vita would cause major problems for Nintendo look like crazy man talk right now.

I guess people were right when they said the 3DS at $250 was too expensive for consumers and a handheld (regardless of the greater specs) at the same price would also be too expensive.

Sony misread the market badly and must of thought that the 3DS price problems didn’t effect a potential vita customer.

In this economy, people are showing that price means the most when it comes to gaming, especially in the handheld arena.

I predict it translates over into the console arena as well.

Vita is high-tech for a handheld and people flat out don't care outside of GAF.

 

[grimshawish]

It didn't have to hurt, on the contry a few more first party titles could have made Ninty a lot of profit.

MS managed to get the 360 up yoy with just bundles, Ninty on the other hand cut the price in May and it did very little. If they had followed MS strategy they could have had significantly better bundles over the holiday ($99 wii's everywhere not just Walmart) when HW sells much better.

Well your right that bundles/price cut could have been done to stimulate demand. I do think Nintendo did their best to keep things going; but they needed to back the 3DS then the WiiU. Its a difficult situation for them; personally I think WiiU should have come out last holiday; its a year late.

 

[DEADEVIL]

Microsoft will be lucky to sell 2 million consoles for this holiday quarter.

Nah, it'll be far from luck they sold almost half of that on Black Friday week last year. They did 1.7 Million in November last year alone.

Even if they don't match it the 360 will still have a huge holiday.

 

[bud23]

The Vita is the best handled ever, imo, I hope it picks up in the future, maybe LBP will help it next month.

Probably it is in capacity terms,but not in software terms(yet).

Imo, the vita need a big hit like GTA (for western territories) or Monster hunter(for Japan).
If you look to best selling games for PSP, GTA(LCS and VCS) and monster hunter are at the top 4.Imo, these games would increase vita´s sales.

 

[shinra-bansho]

In this economy, people are showing that price means the most when it comes to gaming, especially in the handheld arena.

I predict it translates over into the console arena as well.

Vita is high-tech for a handheld and people flat out don't care outside of GAF.

I really don't see how the economy is to blame for either handheld or home console current lackluster sales. For the latter it's generational fatigue. For the former the market that allowed it to soar have migrated.

 

[Snowden's Secret]

Here's a quick anecdote about KH3D:

I went to a Gamestop to preorder it back in June when I saw advertising reminding me NSMB2 was releasing like two weeks later, and pre-ordered that instead. I'll get KH3D eventually, but I needed Mario in my veins/everyone in my family can and has played NSMB2 whereas KH would selfishly be me only.

So my question is: did NSMB2 help or hurt KH3D? Hurt by taking the air out of the room, like in my situation, or help, by getting people in the door to buy 3DS software?

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Time for that revised forecast, Sony.

 

[DEADEVIL]

Maybe he meant worldwide... No console is selling that much in the US q4...

Absolutely, but last year 4th quarter MS did close to 4 million in NPD alone. In the last two years they shipped 6 million+ and last year they shipped 8 million plus.

Which is why is lowballed and said they have a chance to sell upwards of 6 million.

Again, selling 50-75K in a slow month is nothing compared to the 4th quarter numbers that are gained.

 

[Tobor]

How far is vita off the radar? I speak to people who owned PSP’s but they have no idea about the vita at all. I know many would of moved on from handheld gaming to smartphones/tablets but I can still talk to them about the 3DS and they always ask me what certain games are like on the 3DS or what the XL is like but nobody ever mentions the vita.

I really struggle to see how the fortunes of the vita will turn around. In every region it’s in trouble and those predictions by many which thought at $250.00 the vita would cause major problems for Nintendo look like crazy man talk right now.

I guess people were right when they said the 3DS at $250 was too expensive for consumers and a handheld (regardless of the greater specs) at the same price would also be too expensive.

Sony misread the market badly and must of thought that the 3DS price problems didn’t effect a potential vita customer.

Completely off the radar. The core gamers aren't buying it, the general public doesn't know it exists, and retail is pretending it doesn't exist.

When is the last time you saw a Vita ad? Launch? That's the last time I saw one.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

It's justice.
BBS from a story pov is the best KH ever, it should have sold at least the same copies of 358/2 Days

You likely missed it, but 180k was only for one KH3D sku. All total BBS and DDD sold about the same their first month, and the latter is undoubtedly going to sport better legs (BBS topped out at 340k ltd).

For comparison 358/2d did only 201k it's first NPD, but went on to do over 900k ltd.

 

[DEADEVIL]

Well your right that bundles/price cut could have been done to stimulate demand. I do think Nintendo did their best to keep things going; but they needed to back the 3DS then the WiiU. Its a difficult situation for them; personally I think WiiU should have come out last holiday; its a year late.

Now THIS is where I agree and it's one of the reasons Pachter was absolutely right with his famous prediction that put him on the map.

Had WiiU released last year or even the year prior it would have made a killing.

Ultimately, it still may do well but hindsight is 20/20. No doubt an upgraded Wii regardless of specs BEFORE Kinect and Move would have destroyed retail worldwide.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Completely off the radar. The core gamers aren't buying it, the general public doesn't know it exists, and retail is pretending it doesn't exist.

Indeed.

The one audience Sony misguidedly marketed the PSVita at (18-25, PS3 owner) are not buying it. One wonders how Sony expect sales to pick up.

 

[BassForever]

Here's a quick anecdote about KH3D:

I went to a Gamestop to preorder it back in June when I saw advertising reminding me NSMB2 was releasing like two weeks later, and pre-ordered that instead. I'll get KH3D eventually, but I needed Mario in my veins/everyone in my family can and has played NSMB2 whereas KH would selfishly be me only.

So my question is: did NSMB2 help or hurt KH3D? Hurt by taking the air out of the room, like in my situation, or help, by getting people in the door to buy 3DS software?

Considering KH3D sales were fairly close to KHBbS sales I'd say that most of the hardcore niche audience who buys all the KH games just for the ongoing plot bought the game and the mass audience that bought KH1/2 don't really know about its existence or don't have a 3DS to play it. It also didn't really release near NSMB2 3 weeks is quiet a bit of time.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

A few months ago I got ripped for saying 3DS was pretty much done in NA in this thread, well 170k sales which is ~25% less than last year. The Vita is already 6 feet under, probably approaching the Earth's core by now. Handheld market is done in NA, just a matter of time.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I don't think Sony will kill the Vita off just yet. It might be doing horrendous numbers, but they still have a few 'tricks' up their sleeves. However, I think we can all agree that Vita needs:

1. Price Drop
2. More games! They need to get ports of all these 3DS titles going forward and in the past. (Kingdom Hearts 3DS should have been dual platform day 1)
3. More Remote Play opportunities

What it really needs is Android support that allows apps/emulators to run at the metal. If you could have that OLED/buttons and have the CPU/GPU fully exploited, it'd do more for sales than anything Sony could possibly release.

 

[Joseph Flemming]

You likely missed it, but 180k was only for one KH3D sku. All total BBS and DDD sold about the same their first month, and the latter is undoubtedly going to sport better legs (BBS topped out at 340k ltd).

]For comparison 358/2d did only 201k it's first NPD, but went on to do over 900k ltd.

Yea, I think everyone misses that point, or they want to. I love how many people are going to have to eat crow after the holidays. I also think people are going to be a little surprised by the digital numbers for NSMB2.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Considering KH3D sales were fairly close to KHBbS sales I'd say that most of the hardcore niche audience who buys all the KH games just for the ongoing plot bought the game and the mass audience that bought KH1/2 don't really know about its existence or don't have a 3DS to play it. It also didn't really release near NSMB2 3 weeks is quiet a bit of time.

It really hinges on how much massmarket audience 3DS can gather. That's why the GBA and DS games legged it to around a million sold and the PSP game stalled out after only another 100k or so.

KH3D actually did way better than I expected upfront. I was Anihawking it and anticipating a sub-100k debut, but it really does seem like series fans came out for it despite the platform switch.

 

[Mpl90]

A few months ago I got ripped for saying 3DS was pretty much done in NA in this thread, well 170k sales which is ~25% less than last year. The Vita is already 6 feet under, probably approaching the Earth's core by now. Handheld market is done in NA, just a matter of time.

Stop before you appear too dumb.

 

[DEADEVIL]

UK is a smaller market. I dont remember if it has sold over 200k there, but it is at least over 100k. The 2nd week drop was also only 15%, which is vert uncommon.

Either way Sleeping Dogs came out the 17th of August and did 100+ in the both the US and the States. No one has exact numbers and even the difference on VG is pretty small, so I don't get all of the it was a Huge hit in the UK and it was a flop in the US in comparison.

They sold about the same, but it simply did a little better in the UK.

 

[Plinko]

I really don't see how the economy is to blame for either handheld or home console current lackluster sales. For the latter it's generational fatigue. For the former the market that allowed it to soar have migrated.

Source? Because we have hard facts that show us purchasing power has dropped sharply because of skyrocketing food, energy, and medical costs. That is a lot of extra money spent toward necessities now.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Yea, I think everyone misses that point, or they want to. I love how many people are going to have to eat crow after the holidays. I also think people are going to be a little surprised by the digital numbers for NSMB2.

Yeah, handheld games (or at least Nintendo handheld games) with wide appeal tend to sport insane legs. Anihawk's Sonic Generations example is a perfect one, bombed with just 20k it's first NPD, now it's over 250k and consistently a top 10 seller for the platform. There's plenty of other examples of leggy 3DS games too, even 3rd party stuff (LEGO, Skylanders, SSF4, Monkey Ball, Ubishovelware, etc).

I'm expecting modest NSMB2 digital sales, but it's going to at least beat Japan's paltry 5%. Even 10% would put it on par with NSMB1 (in less time).

 

[fluffydelusions]

Time for that revised forecast, Sony.

Wasn't it 8 million by march...they are also counting PSP, PS3, PS2 sales right?

 

[yon61]

Wasn't it 8 million by march...they are also counting PSP, PS3, PS2 sales right?

8 million Vitas alone, revised down from 10 million.

 

[Plinko]

A few months ago I got ripped for saying 3DS was pretty much done in NA in this thread, well 170k sales which is ~25% less than last year. The Vita is already 6 feet under, probably approaching the Earth's core by now. Handheld market is done in NA, just a matter of time.

LOL what is this? 170k in August, a holiday season ahead, likely another price drop within 2 years and an expected mainline Pokemon game eventually. 3DS is "done," ladies and gentlemen.

Again, people need to stop expecting DS numbers. Those days are gone.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Stop before you appear too dumb.

What do 3DS and PS3 look like launch aligned? I wonder if Heavy was proclaiming there'd be no PS4 back in 2007/2008?

 

[fluffydelusions]

8 million Vitas alone, revised down from 10 million.

That is just crazy talk

 

[Mpl90]

Yeah, handheld games (or at least Nintendo handheld games) with wide appeal tend to sport insane legs. Anihawk's Sonic Generations example is a perfect one, bombed with just 20k it's first NPD, now it's over 250k and consistently a top 10 seller for the platform. There's plenty of other examples of leggy 3DS games too, even 3rd party stuff (LEGO, Skylanders, SSF4, Monkey Ball, Ubishovelware, etc).

I'm expecting modest NSMB2 digital sales, but it's going to at least beat Japan's paltry 5%. Even 10% would put it on par with NSMB1 (in less time).

Yeah, not expecting such big numbers from digital sales. I hope we'll get soon some datas about it aside from Japan.

 

[Canis lupus]

What do 3DS and PS3 look like launch aligned? I wonder if Heavy was proclaiming there'd be no PS4 back in 2007/2008?

I think a lot of people were saying similar things back then for the ps3.

 

[BassForever]

What do 3DS and PS3 look like launch aligned? I wonder if Heavy was proclaiming there'd be no PS4 back in 2007/2008?

Not really a fair comparison, smart tvs haven't really done to console game sales what smart phones/tablets have done to handheld. It will be interesting to see if in 5-6 years if you have TVs that can download gaming like apps if people will even want to buy traditional consoles.

 

[The Elite]

I usually take a quick look at these threads and never comment.

Black Ops in the Top 10?

Interesting to see. Definitely the better game and the leading COD franchise.

 

[Card Boy]

Yeah proof that MW3 sucks is all I'm getting from the thread.

 

[Cheech]

I honestly thought Sony would have dropped the Vita price once that Madden bundle appeared. What in the hell are they waiting for? Amazon just announced an amazing array of hardware yesterday, and Apple's turn at bat is coming right up.

Are they really that stupid to not see who they are actually competing with?

 

[Opiate]

I honestly thought Sony would have dropped the Vita price once that Madden bundle appeared. What in the hell are they waiting for? Amazon just announced an amazing array of hardware yesterday, and Apple's turn at bat is coming right up.

Are they really that stupid to not see who they are actually competing with?

Do you think price drops are purely a function of sales momentum? In that case, why not drop the price to 0 dollars immediately?

 

[Laguna]

Do you think price drops are purely a function of sales momentum? In that case, why not drop the price to 0 dollars immediately?

Great idea. I would buy 10 immediately and 20 the next week.

 

[pixelbox]

Isn't the Vita the most expensive gaming device right now?

 

[fluffydelusions]

Isn't the Vita the most expensive gaming device right now?

The most expensive model is on par with the most expensive 360 sku...so it's a tie it seems BUT then you have to factor in the memory card so most expensive seems accurate.

 

[Shantom]

Either way Sleeping Dogs came out the 17th of August and did 100+ in the both the US and the States. No one has exact numbers and even the difference on VG is pretty small, so I don't get all of the it was a Huge hit in the UK and it was a flop in the US in comparison.

They sold about the same, but it simply did a little better in the UK.

Erm, you are aware that the US has five times the population of the UK? The US sales being only marginally better show that the game has either underperformed in America or overperformed in the UK.

 

[Joseph Flemming]

Do you think price drops are purely a function of sales momentum? In that case, why not drop the price to 0 dollars immediately?

I'll chime in, I don't think price drops alone is enough, but it couldn't hurt. I was a early adopter of the Vita beacuse I'm a collector of hardeware. I do believe that Sony needs to better differentiate their platform and Eco system. Why should someone purchase into a dedicated platform? What content can you get only on the Vita? Now we may know those answers, but does the average consumer? As others have stated in this thread, the marketing for the Vita is almost non existent. My friends didn't know the Vita was out until I showed them mine. Where I live in North Jersey all of the retail stores stuff the Vita in the corner.

I think it would be wise at this point for them to drop the price, and relaunch this thing. IMHO.

 

[Ken Masters]

this gen needs to end

 

[Cheech]

Do you think price drops are purely a function of sales momentum? In that case, why not drop the price to 0 dollars immediately?

My point is, Sony is going to get buried by Amazon and Apple once that window closes. I'm not sure if you're from the US or not, but the Kindle Fire here is ridiculously popular with the crowd that Sony is trying to sell the Vita to.

At the current price point, Vita is simply not competitive. I'm suggesting they need to get a fully functional package out there with game for less than 200, and it needed to happen last month. The fact that the Madden bundle doesn't even include a memory card is shameful.

If Sony doesn't care enough to drop the price and get some compelling content on it, I don't know what else there is to say except "catch you in the bargain bin".

 

[fluffydelusions]

My point is, Sony is going to get buried by Amazon and Apple once that window closes. I'm not sure if you're from the US or not, but the Kindle Fire here is ridiculously popular with the crowd that Sony is trying to sell the Vita to.

At the current price point, Vita is simply not competitive. I'm suggesting they need to get a fully functional package out there with game for less than 200, and it needed to happen last month. The fact that the Madden bundle doesn't even include a memory card is shameful.

If Sony doesn't care enough to drop the price and get some compelling content on it, I don't know what else there is to say except "catch you in the bargain bin".

The Fire is even cheaper now at $159 and the Fire HD 7" is only $200 and the 10" is the same price as the Vita and that has full on HD 1080p display!

 

[patapuf]

crying for pricedrops is one thing, but one has to consider:

how many more sales will aprice drop bring?
and will those sales offset the loss sony will take on the vitas?.
Will people that only buy the vita at those reduced prices even buy enough software ?

Imo a price drop is not always the best solution.

 

[Opiate]

My point is, Sony is going to get buried by Amazon and Apple once that window closes. I'm not sure if you're from the US or not, but the Kindle Fire here is ridiculously popular with the crowd that Sony is trying to sell the Vita to.

At the current price point, Vita is simply not competitive. I'm suggesting they need to get a fully functional package out there with game for less than 200, and it needed to happen last month. The fact that the Madden bundle doesn't even include a memory card is shameful.

If Sony doesn't care enough to drop the price and get some compelling content on it, I don't know what else there is to say except "catch you in the bargain bin".

I think they care quite a bit, they just can't do anything about it as they have in the past, with hundred dollar price drops on PS2/PS3/etc. Let's say I care a lot about having a ten million dollar home. Why am I not buying it right away?

 

[Canis lupus]

I think they care quite a bit, they just can't do anything about it as they have in the past, with hundred dollar price drops on PS2/PS3/etc. Let's say I care a lot about having a ten million dollar home. Why am I not buying it right away?

Indeed, Sony is also in the market of smartphones and tablets. And a panic Vita pricecut will do more harm than good.

 

[Opiate]

Here's some (deliberately) simple math to elaborate on my point. Whatever the current profit/loss situation for the manufacture, distribution and sale of Vitas is, lets imagine a 50 dollar price drop is enacted worldwide.

Then, let's imagine this 50 dollar price drop allowed them to sell their 10M Vitas they want to sell over the next 12 months. This represents a 500 million dollar loss in revenue compared to their current expectations. If the Vita requires a 100 dollar price drop to reach its expected sales targets -- which is actually possible, given how dramatically it's underperforming at the moment -- this would represent a 1 Billion dollar deficit relative to expected revenues.

That is the problem. Sony is no longer the international corporate juggernaut it once was; these are not easy choices to make. They could "really want" to do it, but 500 million - 1 Billion dollars is a lot of money.

 

[pixelbox]

The most expensive model is on par with the most expensive 360 sku...so it's a tie it seems BUT then you have to factor in the memory card so most expensive seems accurate.

Seems like people are really not receptive to a handheld costing more than a console. From what I hear, people I know want it but it's too damn expensive. But it amazes me that people will pay for a tablet for twice as much.

 

[Curufinwe]

Stop before you appear too dumb.

Too late.

 

[TheOddOne]

Here's some (deliberately) simple math to elaborate on my point. Whatever the current profit/loss situation for the manufacture, distribution and sale of Vitas is, lets imagine a 50 dollar price drop is enacted worldwide.

Then, let's imagine this 50 dollar price drop allowed them to sell their 10M Vitas they want to sell over the next 12 months. This represents a 500 million dollar loss in revenue compared to their current expectations. If the Vita requires a 100 dollar price drop to reach its expected sales targets -- which is actually possible, given how dramatically it's underperforming at the moment -- this would represent a 1 Billion dollar deficit relative to expected revenues.

That is the problem. Sony is no longer the international corporate juggernaut it once was; these are not easy choices to make. They could "really want" to do it, but 500 million - 1 Billion dollars is a lot of money.

Pretty much!

 

[pixelbox]

My point is, Sony is going to get buried by Amazon and Apple once that window closes. I'm not sure if you're from the US or not, but the Kindle Fire here is ridiculously popular with the crowd that Sony is trying to sell the Vita to.

At the current price point, Vita is simply not competitive. I'm suggesting they need to get a fully functional package out there with game for less than 200, and it needed to happen last month. The fact that the Madden bundle doesn't even include a memory card is shameful.

If Sony doesn't care enough to drop the price and get some compelling content on it, I don't know what else there is to say except "catch you in the bargain bin".

That's just a myth vita not having compelling content. It needs a price drop and advertisement.

 

[metalslimer]

The situation for dedicated handhelds is a complete disaster in my opinion. The new kindle fire at 159 is cheaper not only than vita but every 3ds sku. Im not going to say something dumb like 3ds is done in na (sorry heavy) but nintendo is going to be hurting going forward. Please remember their handhelds have always been theur bread and butter.