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[Hoo-doo]

Unfortunately the vast majority of people will buy the next XBOX regardless of whether it has DRM or not, purely because it is the next XBOX.

Sony thought the same thing with the PS3, just saying.
I know things have changed in terms of accounts, achievements and purchased games, but I don't believe console loyalty exists on the scale that you think it does.

 

[metareferential]

Unfortunately the vast majority of people will buy the next XBOX regardless of whether it has DRM or not, purely because it is the next XBOX.

Which is how things go, regardless of a product's quality.

And we are all making this bigger than it really is. An always-online DRM could be used to block certain features. It doesn't mean it will effectively stop you from playing off-line singleplayer games.

If it's going to prevent you from playing offline, it's going to be a bad thing for Microsoft. Not failure-big, though.

 

[statham]

I think the console is meant to always be online, like no true off button. If for some reason your internet is down the games will still play but most features won't.
Tom gave the same kinda yes and no answer.

Tom Warren ‏@tomwarren 6 Apr

Do I think the next Xbox will require you to be online to play games? No. Do I think it will always be online? Yes. Big difference.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

I'll be the first to say that neoGAF is a definite minority. Reddit though? Idk, a lot of gamers seem to stumble through that quagmire and I like to hope that they leave with at least a little knowledge stuck to them.

The ramifications of places like Reddit spreading the news depends pretty much entirely on how MS markets the system, if they pump hundreds of millions into the marketing and make it clear that 'this is the place to play Call of Duty' then the DRM debacle is nothing but a fart in the wind.

 

[a Master Ninja]

I'm so glad Sony avoided always-online for the PS4 then, otherwise next gen would've been wholly shit before it even started.

...we...we do know this with 100% certainty...right?

 

[kirby_fox]

All they need to do is get Activision to put up exclusive CoD DLC or a timed exclusive release on Durango and throw enough money at third parties in the first year, combined with the 'I play XBOX because my friends do' mentality that XBL created with the 360 and they've already one upped Sony at launch. It's horribly cynical but I think it can happen.

Even with all of that, are consumers going to be miffed about not being able to play a game if their Internet goes down? All it takes is that one friend to be annoyed about it and say they're going to another system because of that feature to turn a crowd of friends off to the Xbox.

Thus the question we need asked: is an average Xbox 360 user going to be OK with a console that requires an always online connection? I'd love to have Yahoo post an article about it so we can see average consumer reaction in the comment section...ya know, between the blaming of a political party for Microsoft doing it and comments on a completely different non-related topic.

 

[ultim8p00]

I love how almost no one in this thread is reading the article, especially the part that says they will work offline.

I'm so glad Sony avoided always-online for the PS4 then, otherwise next gen would've been wholly shit before it even started.

Actually, we don't know that. And if anything I'd assume they didn't, with one of their core tenets being "social" and all that. At the very least it isn't required to play games, but I bet you it's optimized for always-online.

 

[stktt]

I think the console is meant to always be online, like no true off button. If for some reason your internet is down the games will still play but most features won't.
Tom gave the same kinda yes and no answer.

The comparisons to Windows would make much more sense. That's what I always assumed the "always on" aspect would entail.

 

[Acquiescence]

...we...we do know this with 100% certainty...right?

It's been confirmed, but they could always change their mind I suppose. Wouldn't put it past Sony.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Sony thought the same thing with the PS3, just saying.
I know things have changed in terms of accounts, achievements and purchased games, but I don't believe console loyalty exists on the scale that you think it does.

$599

Online DRM is much easier to hide. Stick 'Internet required' in tiny writing at the bottom of the commercial, the commercial which shows the latest Call of Duty coming to Durango with exclusive DLC - it's not a problem.

And it's not 'console loyalty', it's brand awareness.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I really don't understand why Microsoft would do this... at every turn it has been hard to believe that they would do something so hubristic. Why would they turn their backs on the people who made them successful?

Uncle Neogaf: “Will, it’s alright to be angry at the Next Xbox.”

Will: “Hey, why should I be mad? I’m saying, at least he gave hardcores some lip service this time. I just wish I hadn’t wasted my money buying this stupid present.”

Uncle Neogaf: “I’m sorry, I, you know, Always-Online, Kinect 2.0, no used games, if there was… something that I could do–”

Will: “Hey, you know what? You ain’t got to do nothing, Uncle Neogaf. Hey, you know? Ain’t like I’m still five-years old, you know? Ain’t like I’m going to be sitting up every night, playing Halo, asking my Mom, ‘When’s the next Xbox coming home?’ You know? Who needs Xbox? Hey, he wasn’t there to teach me how to shoot my first headshot, but I learned, didn’t I? Hey I got pretty damned good at it too, didn’t I Uncle Neogaf?”

Uncle Neogaf: “Yeah, you did.”

Will: “Got through my first platformer without him, right? I learned how to drive, I learned how to spend skill points, I learned how to fight without him. I had FIVE great console generations without him! He never even sent me a damn Xbox Live Points card–TO HELL WITH HIM!”

[Pause]

Will: “I didn’t need him them and I don’t need him now.”

Uncle Neogaf: “Will…”

Will: “Nah, you know what Uncle Neogaf? I’m gonna get through Next Gen without him. I’m gonna get in great Driveclub without him. I’m gonna start my own videogame company, and I’m making me a whole bunch of consoles and they will work offline, I’m gonna be a better platform holder than he ever was, and I sure as hell don’t need him for that, ’cause there ain’t a damn thing he could ever teach me about how to love my games!”

[Pause]

Will: “How come he don’t want me, man?”

 

[soul creator]

I think the console is meant to always be online, like no true off button. If for some reason your internet is down the games will still play but most features won't.
Tom gave the same kinda yes and no answer.

The one exception could be in the case of games that aren't authorized to the console. For example, when you try to play an XBLA game on a different Xbox from the one it was originally downloaded to, it defaults to trial mode if you're not online to verify the purchase. That's the worst case "SimCity" scenario, but it only occurs in a specific use case.

I wonder if they're essentially going to make every game (disc or not) behave like an XBLA game.

 

[Sorian]

I love how almost no one in this thread is reading the article, especially the part that says they will work offline.

We already addressed this. In the article he says that but then also says people in rural America or other areas that have [shitty] and metered connections will see a lot of issues. He might as well be saying " yeah, the system can power on without an internet connection, can't do much else though."

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

"If one detractor goes too far, all detractors went too far."

combined with the 'I play XBOX because my friends do' mentality that XBL created with the 360

The big deal here is that was a driving force behind the 360's strength this generation amongst several other factors. It started strong and snowballed from there, providing that large multiplayer pool very well. If this causes a "$599 Giant Enemy Crab" level stumble out the gate, that happenstance won't happen again.

 

[B.O.O.M]

I really don't understand why Microsoft would do this... at every turn it has been hard to believe that they would do something so hubristic. Why would they turn their backs on the people who made them successful?

Uncle Neogaf: “Will, it’s alright to be angry at the Next Xbox.”

Will: “Hey, why should I be mad? I’m saying, at least he gave hardcores some lip service this time. I just wish I hadn’t wasted my money buying this stupid present.”

Uncle Neogaf: “I’m sorry, I, you know, Always-Online, Kinect 2.0, no used games, if there was… something that I could do–”

Will: “Hey, you know what? You ain’t got to do nothing, Uncle Neogaf. Hey, you know? Ain’t like I’m still five-years old, you know? Ain’t like I’m going to be sitting up every night, playing Halo, asking my Mom, ‘When’s the next Xbox coming home?’ You know? Who needs Xbox? Hey, he wasn’t there to teach me how to shoot my first headshot, but I learned, didn’t I? Hey I got pretty damned good at it too, didn’t I Uncle Neogaf?”

Uncle Neogaf: “Yeah, you did.”

Will: “Got through my first platformer without him, right? I learned how to drive, I learned how to spend skill points, I learned how to fight without him. I had FIVE great console generations without him! He never even sent me a damn Xbox Live Points card–TO HELL WITH HIM!”

[Pause]

Will: “I didn’t need him them and I don’t need him now.”

Uncle Neogaf: “Will…”

Will: “Nah, you know what Uncle Neogaf? I’m gonna get through Next Gen without him. I’m gonna get in great Driveclub without him. I’m gonna start my own videogame company, and I’m making me a whole bunch of consoles and they will work offline, I’m gonna be a better platform holder than he ever was, and I sure as hell don’t need him for that, ’cause there ain’t a damn thing he could ever teach me about how to love my games!”

[Pause]

Will: “How come he don’t want me, man?”

hahaha well done

 

[Four_Chamber]

I think the fact that they decided not to counter the unveiling of the PS4 speaks volumes. It wouldn't have been hard to change their time tables so that we could have gotten some concrete info about the system by now but they decided to sit on their hands instead. They are completely to blame for all the rumors currently circulating because they let them fester. At this point, the unveiling needs to be extremely strong to even match up with the PS4 unveiling.

I'm not stupid enough to think that a strong unveiling means much in teh long term of a system but it certainly would help.

Maybe for GAF, but not for the vast majority of consumers who just want to see where the games will be. It's games that sell, and if they show some unique/good games, the console will be in good shape with the "core" (not sure what that group really is anymore though). There is a vocal minority here that wouldn't have bought the Xbox anyway but I think most consumers don't need to have their socks blown off to buy what has been an incredibly successful console.

Remember, the Playstation gaffes (two jobs, next gen starts when we say it does, etc) just led to some initial struggles but the platform still survived. The Xbox will survive and the folks who think it will flop are dreaming. I don't think another company is actually capable of pissing away marketshare like Sony did with the PS3 even if they tried.

 

[Zephyrus]

what are you talking about lol
you dont know shit about what MS will introduce and jump to conclusions. try to use your brain instead of making fluffy insults, you cant tell others what to do.

Thing is, I AM using my brain.

Should Microsoft really go through with this feature and should the consumer support it or "not care" about it, it'll send to others a message.

One that says the consumer is an idiot and buy everything that shines even if it hurts them in the process.

This will tell Sony and Nintendo that it's ok to force this feature on us.
This will tell Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft that it's ok to go even further.

This will only end badly for us, the consumer.

What point do the consumer rights serve, when the consumers themselves say that it's ok to be screwed over?


You're american right?

I might have some easy way to explain this to you.

Imagine that the Nextbox is North Korea. Imagine that Microsoft is Kim Jong Un. Imagine that the Nextbox userbase are the citizens of North Korea.

It's pretty much what you'll get with this feature. You'll be forced to buy what they want you to buy. You have no say in the matter. You'll be constantly watched while you do anything.

 

[coldfoot]

But the apps platform on these systems—which will be replicated on the Windows 8-based next Xbox—assumes a connection.

Wait, so you can't launch apps on Windows Phone or RT/Metro if you're not connected? I don't think that's true.

 

[bidguy]

...we...we do know this with 100% certainty...right?

i believe they said something like, the developers can decide. could be mistaken though

 

[vg260]

I wonder if they're essentially going to make every game (disc or not) behave like an XBLA game.

That's my prediction: Need to be online to download/activate it once, then tied to your console so any account can play it offline without the disc. You need to be online on another console to use it there. Just like how XBLA/GoD games work now.

 

[mavs]

I love how almost no one in this thread is reading the article, especially the part that says they will work offline.

I don't know how you can interpret "require an always-on Internet connection" to mean "will work offline".

More to the point, every time we hear about this "feature" it's phrased as "you will need to be connected to the internet to play a video game." Not "you have to connect the console to the internet, and the games work whenever."

 

[Confidence Man]

I think the console is meant to always be online, like no true off button. If for some reason your internet is down the games will still play but most features won't.
Tom gave the same kinda yes and no answer.

People can say what they think will happen, but the only actual leaks have said that it will require you to be online to play.

I mean why hasn't there been some anonymous dev source that says "don't worry, you can still play your games offline"? Instead we get "your games will shut down after 3 minutes".

 

[todahawk]

The ramifications of places like Reddit spreading the news depends pretty much entirely on how MS markets the system, if they pump hundreds of millions into the marketing and make it clear that 'this is the place to play Call of Duty' then the DRM debacle is nothing but a fart in the wind.

Reddit has a memory like an elephant. If MS is counting on marketing to 'fix everything' then it better be social media marketing and fake users to dispel all the negatives from this mess. I still don't think it will be enough, IMO MS is gonna be hurting this gen as a result of their strategy with 'always online'.

Windows 8 was getting trashed on reddit early (among other places) and it never stopped.
MS can throw some $$$ at the main channels but even my mom heard word of mouth how shitty windows 8 was.

That's my prediction: Need to be online to download/activate it once, then tied to your console so any account can play it offline without the disc. You need to be online on another console to use it there. Just like how XBLA/GoD games work now.

Disagree about activating once and then going offline. I don't see MS doing that. There's way too many benefits for them doing always online.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I really don't understand why Microsoft would do this... at every turn it has been hard to believe that they would do something so hubristic. Why would they turn their backs on the people who made them successful?

Uncle Neogaf: “Will, it’s alright to be angry at the Next Xbox.”

Will: “Hey, why should I be mad? I’m saying, at least he gave hardcores some lip service this time. I just wish I hadn’t wasted my money buying this stupid present.”

Uncle Neogaf: “I’m sorry, I, you know, Always-Online, Kinect 2.0, no used games, if there was… something that I could do–”

Will: “Hey, you know what? You ain’t got to do nothing, Uncle Neogaf. Hey, you know? Ain’t like I’m still five-years old, you know? Ain’t like I’m going to be sitting up every night, playing Halo, asking my Mom, ‘When’s the next Xbox coming home?’ You know? Who needs Xbox? Hey, he wasn’t there to teach me how to shoot my first headshot, but I learned, didn’t I? Hey I got pretty damned good at it too, didn’t I Uncle Neogaf?”

Uncle Neogaf: “Yeah, you did.”

Will: “Got through my first platformer without him, right? I learned how to drive, I learned how to spend skill points, I learned how to fight without him. I had FIVE great console generations without him! He never even sent me a damn Xbox Live Points card–TO HELL WITH HIM!”

[Pause]

Will: “I didn’t need him them and I don’t need him now.”

Uncle Neogaf: “Will…”

Will: “Nah, you know what Uncle Neogaf? I’m gonna get through Next Gen without him. I’m gonna get in great Driveclub without him. I’m gonna start my own videogame company, and I’m making me a whole bunch of consoles and they will work offline, I’m gonna be a better platform holder than he ever was, and I sure as hell don’t need him for that, ’cause there ain’t a damn thing he could ever teach me about how to love my games!”

[Pause]

Will: “How come he don’t want me, man?”

...


*applause*

 

[metareferential]

The one exception could be in the case of games that aren't authorized to the console. For example, when you try to play an XBLA game on a different Xbox from the one it was originally downloaded to, it defaults to trial mode if you're not online to verify the purchase. That's the worst case "SimCity" scenario, but it only occurs in a specific use case.

I wonder if they're essentially going to make every game (disc or not) behave like an XBLA game.

It would prevent games rental, though. Bringing a game to a friend's house won't be an issue, you just bring your account with you.

Lending a game? Why would you want to anyway? lol.

 

[Sorian]

Maybe for GAF, but not for the vast majority of consumers who just want to see where the games will be. It's games that sell, and if they show some unique/good games, the console will be in good shape with the "core" (not sure what that group really is anymore though). There is a vocal minority here that wouldn't have bought the Xbox anyway but I think most consumers don't need to have their socks blown off to buy what has been an incredibly successful console.

Remember, the Playstation gaffes (two jobs, next gen starts when we say it does, etc) just led to some initial struggles but the platform still survived. The Xbox will survive and the folks who think it will flop are dreaming. I don't think another company is actually capable of pissing away marketshare like Sony did with the PS3 even if they tried.

If that is the case then doesn't PS4 win anyway. It seems like Sony is taking the stance that a console is meant for gaming with other things being icing on the cake while Microsoft is taking the stance that a console should do everything in your living room including give blowjobs, oh and game are kind of cool too.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I really don't understand why Microsoft would do this... at every turn it has been hard to believe that they would do something so hubristic. Why would they turn their backs on the people who made them successful?

Uncle Neogaf: “Will, it’s alright to be angry at the Next Xbox.”

Will: “Hey, why should I be mad? I’m saying, at least he gave hardcores some lip service this time. I just wish I hadn’t wasted my money buying this stupid present.”

Uncle Neogaf: “I’m sorry, I, you know, Always-Online, Kinect 2.0, no used games, if there was… something that I could do–”

Will: “Hey, you know what? You ain’t got to do nothing, Uncle Neogaf. Hey, you know? Ain’t like I’m still five-years old, you know? Ain’t like I’m going to be sitting up every night, playing Halo, asking my Mom, ‘When’s the next Xbox coming home?’ You know? Who needs Xbox? Hey, he wasn’t there to teach me how to shoot my first headshot, but I learned, didn’t I? Hey I got pretty damned good at it too, didn’t I Uncle Neogaf?”

Uncle Neogaf: “Yeah, you did.”

Will: “Got through my first platformer without him, right? I learned how to drive, I learned how to spend skill points, I learned how to fight without him. I had FIVE great console generations without him! He never even sent me a damn Xbox Live Points card–TO HELL WITH HIM!”

[Pause]

Will: “I didn’t need him them and I don’t need him now.”

Uncle Neogaf: “Will…”

Will: “Nah, you know what Uncle Neogaf? I’m gonna get through Next Gen without him. I’m gonna get in great Driveclub without him. I’m gonna start my own videogame company, and I’m making me a whole bunch of consoles and they will work offline, I’m gonna be a better platform holder than he ever was, and I sure as hell don’t need him for that, ’cause there ain’t a damn thing he could ever teach me about how to love my games!”

[Pause]

Will: “How come he don’t want me, man?”

Well done, sir.

 

[coldfoot]

That's my prediction: Need to be online to download/activate it once, then tied to your console so any account can play it offline without the disc. You need to be online on another console to use it there. Just like how XBLA/GoD games work now.

That would make sense from a consumer standpoint, but the phrase we keep hearing is "always online".

 

[soul creator]

That's my prediction: Need to be online to download/activate it once, then tied to your console so any account can play it offline without the disc. You need to be online on another console to use it there. Just like how XBLA/GoD games work now.

Yeah, and that does at least provide one small consumer benefit: not having to worry about swapping discs, and being able to redownload your retail games at any time, like on Steam. That'll be their "spin".

 

[Doug Heffernan]

All of your gaming achievements will be instantly tweeted to all of your best buddies and posted to facebook for the total social experience !!!!!

Actually, that's EXACTLY what Sony is gonna do with their next console.

Hell, they even have a damn button dedicated to annoying your Facebook friends.
Terrible...

 

[helium121]

What happens in 10 years when Microsoft decides they want to shutdown the 720's servers? How will you play your games?

 

[ultim8p00]

We already addressed this. In the article he says that but then also says people in rural America or other areas that have [shitty] and metered connections will see a lot of issues. He might as well be saying " yeah, the system can power on without an internet connection, can't do much else though."

What the hell? No it isn't. Not even close.

If anything, it sounds to me like the system will be optimized to assume that you always have an internet connection, but will probably still work offline, though not as well/with less features. This would naturally make people with bad internet unhappy. I don't see him specifically suggesting that "you can't do much else" in anyway. Way to jump to stupid conclusions.

 

[Sorian]

Actually, that's EXACTLY what Sony is gonna do with their next console.

I believe the joke was that the Nextbox would do it automatically without your approval.

 

[coldfoot]

Actually, that's EXACTLY what Sony is gonna do with their next console.
Hell, they even have a damn button dedicated to annoying your Facebook friends.
Terrible...

The PS3 already does that, if you enable it.

 

[abadguy]

That would make sense from a consumer standpoint, but the phrase we keep hearing is "always online".

"Always online" isn't the problem. Its the possibility of "required online" that people don't like.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Reddit has a memory like an elephant. If MS is counting on marketing to 'fix everything' then it better be social media marketing and fake users to dispel all the negatives from this mess. I still don't think it will be enough, IMO MS is gonna be hurting this gen as a result of their strategy with 'always online'.

Windows 8 was getting trashed on reddit early (among other places) and it never stopped.
MS can throw some $$$ at the main channels but even my mom heard word of mouth how shitty windows 8 was.

Yeah, it depends entirely on how MS market it, online DRM (unfortunately) doesn't mean Durango is dead in the water, but the onus is on MS to prove that.

 

[enzo_gt]

That's my prediction: Need to be online to download/activate it once, then tied to your console so any account can play it offline without the disc. You need to be online on another console to use it there. Just like how XBLA/GoD games work now.

I don't think this would be a big deal, or even reported on by multiple sources if it worked literally exactly the same as the 360 does now. There's more to this.

 

[Hindle]

IMO the only real disastrous moves a company can pull with a console is to release at a ridiculous price, with no games, and a piss poor online service. MS will do none of these which is why I think the machine will be fine.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I hope the people who says that they're not supporting this shit by not buying the console will not give in once the Halo's and the Forza's are unveiled. At least the GAFfers.

Dont worry, I dont care about either series. Letting go of Microsoft is as easy as breathing.

 

[statham]

The one exception could be in the case of games that aren't authorized to the console. For example, when you try to play an XBLA game on a different Xbox from the one it was originally downloaded to, it defaults to trial mode if you're not online to verify the purchase. That's the worst case "SimCity" scenario, but it only occurs in a specific use case.

I wonder if they're essentially going to make every game (disc or not) behave like an XBLA game.

as long as they offer the migration tool, that won't be so bad.

 

[Syphon Filter]

It won't be awesome if the always online is true,there is nothing that can convince me .

 

[Cidd]

Actually, that's EXACTLY what Sony is gonna do with their next console.

Hell, they even have a damn button dedicated to annoying your Facebook friends.
Terrible...

Trying too hard there soldier.

 

[abadguy]

Trying too hard there soldier.

But he's stating fact.

 

[Dysun]

What happens in 10 years when Microsoft decides they want to shutdown the 720's servers? How will you play your games?

You get to buy them again on your Xbox4

 

[Sorian]

What the hell? No it isn't. Not even close.

If anything, it sounds to me like the system will be optimized to assume that you always have an internet connection, but will probably still work offline, though not as well/with less features. This would naturally make people with bad internet unhappy. I don't see him specifically suggesting that "you can't do much else" in anyway. Way to jump to stupid conclusions.

Yup, it'll work for all of 3 minutes without an internet connection then kick you from your app because it doesn't like being offline. Sounds fun!

 

[Mandoric]

The ramifications of places like Reddit spreading the news depends pretty much entirely on how MS markets the system, if they pump hundreds of millions into the marketing and make it clear that 'this is the place to play Call of Duty' then the DRM debacle is nothing but a fart in the wind.

Assuming that CoD is as huge next gen as this gen, that there's not already a gap in adoption at launch, and that Activision is interested in marketing cash up front rather than driving EA to extinction on the PS4 shooter market where BF4 can be traded in but Destiny the MMO can't.

That's the point that really needs to be driven home: EA is very loud and vocal about "what devs want", but at the end of the day it's what EA wants. Other publishers have other strategies, which interact with the used market in other ways.

 

[xxracerxx]

What happens in 10 years when Microsoft decides they want to shutdown the 720's servers? How will you play your games?

Biggest issue for me right here. Some people will say it isn't an issue but holy fuck at that mode of thought.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Trying too hard there soldier.

By stating facts as opposed to rumors?

Okay buddie...

 

[Cidd]

But he's stating fact.

because we have to use those features right?

Oh wait I have a choice..

 

[soul creator]

I don't think this would be a big deal, or even reported on by multiple sources if it worked literally exactly the same as the 360 does now. There's more to this.

I think the big deal, and what would separate it from the 360, is that this would also apply to retail disc games, not just downloaded XBLA/GoD games. So it potentially rules out used games (like Steamworks retail disc games)

That also ties into the rumor of not needing the disc to play a retail game after you install it. This also could mean all developers may have to account for this (like defaulting to a trial mode, or something like that), which could be the source of the rumors.