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A Halogaf Community Thread: The Old Becomes New

Naked Lunch

Member
The Pit in Infinite is fun as hell.
Im still not in love with the new dark look but it plays great - like going back home.
Amazing how a shift in map design philosophy beyond Infinite's previous cramped room-fest changes the entire game.
It plays and feel like real Halo on this Pitt remake - and the other 2 forge maps in Matchmaking.
Really impressed.

I wish I could play just Team Slayer or CTF on it though - keep getting crappy Attrition and Oddball.
 
The Pit in Infinite is fun as hell.
Im still not in love with the new dark look but it plays great - like going back home.
Amazing how a shift in map design philosophy beyond Infinite's previous cramped room-fest changes the entire game.
It plays and feel like real Halo on this Pitt remake - and the other 2 forge maps in Matchmaking.
Really impressed.

I wish I could play just Team Slayer or CTF on it though - keep getting crappy Attrition and Oddball.

I'll have to check it out tonight. If the game had map and mode filters, with forced minimum selection numbers for speedy matching, it would immensely improve the replayability, player attraction/retention and session duration times.
 
Chances of seeing Halo Infinite > Tatanka at The Game Awards?

I'm leaning to yes, seems like a solid time to tease it. If it's not shown I'd hazard a guess late next year rather than early next year (if shown).
 
Hats off to the MCC team, they're really outdoing themselves these days. I hope they keep releasing maps and content for years to come.
 

Havoc2049

Member
So yea. Gotta say been playing around with the new update for MCC. Gotta say loving the additions and improvements. For those who may not have known here is the blog post about it. Needless to say playing H4 with both Acrophobia and Bandana Skulls is pretty nice.

https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-mcc-december-2022-update

Hats off to the MCC team, they're really outdoing themselves these days. I hope they keep releasing maps and content for years to come.

The match rejoin feature is a god send. I took advantage of it today and was able to rejoin a match in which I was kicked out at the match loading screen. I was able to rejoin my team and we ended up making a comeback and won the match. No more short temp bans due to being kicked from a game because of technical issues. Woot!

BTW, ended up getting an Extermination medal today. 🏅😎
Spree-extermination.png

 
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Naked Lunch

Member
The match rejoin feature is a god send. I took advantage of it today and was able to rejoin a match in which I was kicked out at the match loading screen. I was able to rejoin my team and we ended up making a comeback and won the match. No more short temp bans due to being kicked from a game because of technical issues. Woot!
Really good news rejoin works that way. Even after all these years - MCC still crashes during startup sometimes.
 
The match rejoin feature is a god send.

BTW, ended up getting an Extermination medal today.
Two barrels empty sir!

These QoL things all getting into a new Halo title and/rolled into Infinite and we will really see Halo hit the big time again, if and when it gets that lightning in a bottle.

I'm still floored Spartan Ops was the last attempt at giving 50% of your audience campaign DLC. Imagine your season pass including alternating updates to traditional Halo multiplayer, story, coop, campaign, battle royale etc. Talk about market separation, I see why Bungie did what they did on console again with Destiny 2.

All the latency and history as well as flavours of Halo side step so much bad blood, leeting playerbase and separate Halo first party to Destiny 2 levels. The resources are better invested akin to Desinty 2 story, raids etc. 343/Xbox are nuts to not have developed a GaaS campaign. Build what you do for multiplater, MTX and sustain for campaign at the studio level. If this got/gets really well supported internally the potential is massive.

This is what I was expecting with the title "Infinite", essentially never ending game content shared across multi and campaign. Instead we got a busted multi early on and zero post launch campaign stuff. Coop is nice but should have been there day one. Now we see campaign shot pushed way back and likely never because funding on Infinite is probably lacklustre internally.
 
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The match rejoin feature is a god send. I took advantage of it today and was able to rejoin a match in which I was kicked out at the match loading screen. I was able to rejoin my team and we ended up making a comeback and won the match. No more short temp bans due to being kicked from a game because of technical issues. Woot!

BTW, ended up getting an Extermination medal today. 🏅😎
Spree-extermination.png


Oh this sounds amazing!! Sad that it took this long to implement such a feature, but I'm actually jealous that i can't play Halo right now.
 

Naked Lunch

Member
I played more Infinite this weekend than I have since launch.
The new maps really really help. Plays and feels much more like the Halo I love. Some rounds I got wrecked - like 5-20 bad. But twice I got a rampage, 20 kills in a row I think. Caught fire in a couple of those.

Just as a more nuanced gameplay observation of Infinite, I will say on the more open maps - I feel like Pistols and Sniper advantage those who use Left Trigger Zoom/aim - in opposition to old school right click to aim. Hip fire BRs are fine because zooming isnt really needed - but unzoomed pistol aiming on controller is all over the place. I just cant change my controls though - no way I can after 20 years of Halo muscle memory.

I heard some (im assuming) new fans of Halo during a round in chat, screaming and complaining about the maps the Pit and Detachment - saying:
"These maps are too open - too long range - too difficult for me!".
Crazy but those are the most Halo maps in the game. That super CQC cramped stuff like Aquarius doesnt fly with me at all.
 
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I played more Infinite this weekend than I have since launch.
The new maps really really help. Plays and feels much more like the Halo I love. Some rounds I got wrecked - like 5-20 bad. But twice I got a rampage, 20 kills in a row I think. Caught fire in a couple of those.

Just as a more nuanced gameplay observation of Infinite, I will say on the more open maps - I feel like Pistols and Sniper advantage those who use Left Trigger Zoom/aim - in opposition to old school right click to aim. Hip fire BRs are fine because zooming isnt really needed - but unzoomed pistol aiming on controller is all over the place. I just cant change my controls though - no way I can after 20 years of Halo muscle memory.

I heard some (im assuming) new fans of Halo during a round in chat, screaming and complaining about the maps the Pit and Detachment - saying:
"These maps are too open - too long range - too difficult for me!".
Crazy but those are the most Halo maps in the game. That super CQC cramped stuff like Aquarius doesnt fly with me at all.

Yes. Quality maps and modes elevate Halo's gameplay. The reverse is true also, poor maps and modes bog down Halo's gameplay.

It's all Halo ever needed. MCC in full working order proves this, as does the current season of Infinite.
 
Motherfucker. COD gets RAIDS before Halo.

343's lack of vision from Halo 5 firefight to Infinite missing crucial campaign and PvE content, at launch and first year sustain, is the major contributing reason for not having sustained numbers and MTX beyond Infinite as it stands. PvP performance good or bad doesn't equate to the 50% of the audience just sitting there crying out for campaign, story, PvE content such as RAIDs, strikes, loot etc.

It's going to be years before we see meaningful campaign or PvE content for Halo. Fuck. Hats off to COD and the team, again.

EDIT: that new map looks great!!! Just the sort of terrain and mix of indoor/outdoor that Halo is perfect for. I'd like to see more of that 343, bring it to Apex levels.
 
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:pie_diana:

.
.
.Edit...
I feel like the forerunner structures on a random biome theme has been done to death by 343... I want more ancient ruins and alien environments. C'mon man.
 
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Naked Lunch

Member
So I found out about this second hand - dont know much about it - but apparently they mistakenly added aim assist to Mouse and Keyboard PC players in the newest Halo update. But they are NOT taking it out ("yet") and are going to collect data on it first.
Like what the actual fuck?!
Now if you would survey these PC players - of course they are going to like the aim assist!

This would explain some of my earlier posts on this very page about some rounds getting completely fucking wrecked and other games not. Well ive been checking these freak players with snipers and never missing any pistol shots from across the map - and who are they? You guessed it - PC players.
1 step forward. 12 steps back.
343 is killing me. Literal death bed.
 
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So I found out about this second hand - dont know much about it - but apparently they mistakenly added aim assist to Mouse and Keyboard PC players in the newest Halo update. But they are NOT taking it out ("yet") and are going to collect data on it first.
Like what the actual fuck?!
Now if you would survey these PC players - of course they are going to like the aim assist!

This would explain some of my earlier posts on this very page about some rounds getting completely fucking wrecked and other games not. Well ive been checking these freak players with snipers and never missing any pistol shots from across the map - and who are they? You guessed it - PC players.
1 step forward. 12 steps back.
343 is killing me. Literal death bed.
That's ridiculous... 343 is insanely notorious for shooting themselves in the foot. I hope they fix this if true. Sorry man...

I was gonna post this upload from Mint Blitz. He said social BTB is in Infinite which would be one of my favs as well. And I think this has been seen before but this damnation map remake looks sick.

 
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Naked Lunch

Member
You know, after seeing what Capcom did to Street Fighter 6, especially after playing it (doesnt even feel like Street Fighter anymore).
And coming from the decade+ of Halo 4, 5, and even Reach...
Infinite probably IS the closest the series will ever get to Halo 3.
The core gameplay does shine on this new map allotment - with lots and lots more in the future.
 
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Motherfucker. COD gets RAIDS before Halo.

343's lack of vision from Halo 5 firefight to Infinite missing crucial campaign and PvE content, at launch and first year sustain, is the major contributing reason for not having sustained numbers and MTX beyond Infinite as it stands. PvP performance good or bad doesn't equate to the 50% of the audience just sitting there crying out for campaign, story, PvE content such as RAIDs, strikes, loot etc.

It's going to be years before we see meaningful campaign or PvE content for Halo. Fuck. Hats off to COD and the team, again.

EDIT: that new map looks great!!! Just the sort of terrain and mix of indoor/outdoor that Halo is perfect for. I'd like to see more of that 343, bring it to Apex levels.
The fact this game still doesn't have a dedicated PVE mode is baffling to me, especially since (according to Brad Sams) they pretty much wanted it to be their version of Destiny. And PVE is Destiny's bread and butter.

Hopefully it gets Firefight eventually - and true Firefight, not the shit from 5 which I frankly thought was abysmal. Spartan Ops I'd be open to but it'd need a massive rework first. Campaign DLC I feel like was probably in the cards at some point but who knows what the status of it is now.
 
The fact this game still doesn't have a dedicated PVE mode is baffling to me, especially since (according to Brad Sams) they pretty much wanted it to be their version of Destiny. And PVE is Destiny's bread and butter.

Hopefully it gets Firefight eventually - and true Firefight, not the shit from 5 which I frankly thought was abysmal. Spartan Ops I'd be open to but it'd need a massive rework first. Campaign DLC I feel like was probably in the cards at some point but who knows what the status of it is now.

Honestly for me...fuck firefight. I want Campaign expansions on the regular, like 1-3 times a year. I want strikes. I want raids/dungeons. I want Halo loot I can use in some multiplayer modes. I want Halo BR. It makes their battle pass offering such better value while ditching all those decades of online PvP bullshit.
 
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Honestly for me...fuck firefight. I want Campaign expansions on the regular, like 1-3 times a year. I want strikes. I want raids/dungeons. I want Halo loot I can use in some multiplayer modes. I want Halo BR. It makes their battle pass offering such better value while ditching all those decades of online PvP bullshit.
That would be cool, I just don't have much faith 343 would pull it all off if I'm being brutally honest. Campaign stuff seems up in the air. Maybe Spartan Ops could be retooled into some sort of Halo version of strikes/raids, since they're already kinda similar, but like I said it would need a lot of retooling.

Loot I assume would be limited to stuff like skins, and that may take away from the shop selection so dunno if they'd be willing to do that.

BR is still coming from what we've heard, although I personally still don't have much interest in it. The game's had a decent amount of PVP support, I want PVE stuff.
 

MadPanda

Member
BTW the game currently has 3 same Light is might challenges related to shock or hardlight weapons. I don't get it, couldn't they be more creative?
 
Frustrating because just like MCC, we'll never know what the game could have been popularity-wise if it had launched in this state.

Regardless, interested in seeing what they have planned for this year. Hope the new management can deliver.
Oh my the excitement and love for Infinite would have been insane if this forge had been available since launch with a proper forge playlist. Look at these creations in one of Mint Blitz's videos. One or two have already been posted by T The Real Napsta but worth seeing again. Game night looks incredible and fun.

 
I have to say as a noob console forge user it's a shit show downloading maps and gametypes separately. It also appears to be quite buggy. I'll download the map and mode from the same owner/creator and when I go to play a custom either the map or mode is missing for me to select those under "My Files".

I had to halt a return to a weekly Halo night as I just couldn't reliably get games up and running easily or quickly. I even spent like 20mins downloading a cache of maps and modes, especially paired ones by the same owner. Why didn't they give users/creators the option to just bundle as one click download and play? This idea of searching, downloading, saving, running a custom, matching maps/modes and glitchy things not loading etc. Fuck all that. This should have been seamless and fast, just add a context wheel menu like Apex Legends > Pinging -
  • wheel slice 1 - Search again random, no filters (default if none selected)
  • wheel slice 2 - Play same again new lobby
  • wheel slice 3 - Play same again with current lobby/team
  • wheel slice 4 - save map
  • wheel slice 5 - save mode
  • wheel slice 6 - save both and link
Now pair this with super clean playlist curation, credit to Green @ Resetera with a slight change for me version below, and a matchmaking composer/filter system and Halo could have launched right into slipspace -

Campaign
  • Solo
  • Co-Op
  • PvE (I know it's missing but on can dream) e.g. strikes, raids, dungeons, firefight?
Multiplayer
  • Social Matchmaking/Composer (no filter default, player/party leader map/modes/party custom filters, minimums for maps and modes required but very flexible.
  • Ranked playlist (filters allowed for regions and party size e.g. doubles vs 4v4 vs BTB).
  • Custom Browser
  • Custom Games
 
I'll be hosting some Infinite customs tonight, in about 12-14 hours or so. Hit my GT up if you want: OzzyPingKing.

Yes another ALT for me, kids keep overrunning the other family GTs.
 
All I hear is but my BR?.....



The sandbox list of keep vs remove is laughable. Oh so you want MLG Halo 2/3 back. Right. Same maps, same sandbox. Fuck me. If you're pro adapt motherfucker.

This clip below is far better than anything Halo or Halo pros have offered in 10 years. I'm not talking about my skills. I'm talking about the map, the teaming, the movement, the cover, the shield/health systems, the weapon specificity and knowing how to play to those strengths etc.



Respawn have refined Apex into what Halo 4 or 5 or Infinite should have been. No rockets, no OHK, clear comms on all things e.g. players, enemies, damage, weapons, characters/abilities, directions, surfaces etc. It's so fucking well balance by comparison to Infinite or anything these upset pros are on about. 343 and these pros again miss the entire boat of what made Halo so good for so long in the original trilogy; 4v4 light slayer and objective games not based in territory boxes or player highlights signalling the whole map. This Apex clip from their latest map and matchmaking absolutely shits on Halo 4/5/Infinite in every way e.g. networking, UI, map design, sandbox, weapons, movement, teamwork, visual/audio clarity, feedback, character designs etc. I could write a fucking thesis on this Apex clip evolving from the FPS genre/industry/Titanfall alone and all the lessons Halo devs and "classic default" players should take from the proven sustain and success of Apex. One could even argue things like Apex Replicators and cargo drops are evolutions in game and real time of Halo REQs and "fairer" streak drops while giving risk vs reward awareness issues.

The pros again are aiming at diminishing returns. The 343 decision makers made repeated moronic choices catering to that hypercompetitive crowd for 50% of their Inifite game, yet again for the third mainline game release after Halo 4 & 5. Pathetic. The gutting of the leadership at 343 was so long overdue, it should have happened before Halo Infinite even left the drawing table. The exodus of pros and player population should have been stemmed with Infinite's release. All that had to do was campaign and sustain every 3-4 months along with condensing the population right down to Battle Royale. You could literally provide game systems where teams could lock out other enemies, have a multiplayer match between set teams and then continue on in the larger map world. Dynamic drop in and out, statis type sections of a map, risk vs reward, team vs team or just stay in the open BR world.

Honestly the lack of creativity to remove this Halo faux dependence on esports is such a waste of time. Halo had its time, that zeitgeist isn't going to be the next Counter Strike. Keep it going but don't put so many resources and game allocation. Had Infinite focused on leaving MCC as the go to and the wonderful sustain there they could have had Infinite at the pinnacle of Battle Royale and launched campaign, multiplayer and Battle Royale all in one map. Imagine an Apex map where you go to a mini-hub to start e.g. destiny shared world, you gather solo or your fireteam and proximity chat/share/trade resources and then head into battle of your choosing. Did that squad head on out and attack random in the open squads? Did they pursue a high value target to use their hard-earned loot in the rest of their BR adventures? Did they run a locked virtual sim against a ranked matched squad in the area (e.g. maps to play on are actually in the open world map)? Did they fall into a Banished trap while on patrol for the next solo/coop campaign waypoint?

It's this sort of creativity and shared experiences that wins audiences in big numbers and keeps them coming back. A completely even playing field isn't going to grow your game over time, it's going to shrink it generally. 343 focusing on competing for that esports FPS crown was/is always a diminishing return and fraught with ebbs and flows of current leader. 343 failed hard to take the Halo universe from all media and bring a well-developed world for online players to share en masse but drill down to their favourites to play. This sort of visionary leadership would have delivered new sustained audiences and mixing of players that Halo divisions so desperately need to coalesce into a seamless GaaS title more than just PvP. Look at Destiny 1/2 and you'll find the presentation layer similar to what I'm on about, you'll also see Bungie having this developer vision/insight over 343 and executing on it. Jason Jones/Bungie read the market gaps really well and following that through to something new from that repackaging. Games like WoW on PC were doing what Destiny does but Bungie brought it FPS/console and cross play etc. Halo missed another boat, it has an audience there in waiting. Fools I tell you.

Imagine playing BR and coming across a no damage zone that is bumper mongooses in action or you spectate a live pro match from an event streaming into a glass arena etc. Join in, have fun, then boom back to running BR. Fortnite had a near roadmap, as did Destiny 1/2 but 343 simply tried to get good at what they perceived as the "best" Halo, esports and some random shit like Warzone or BTB. Apex is the evolution of condensing population pools, driving player recycling and retention while delivering loot players actually want e.g. designs or characters/abilities. Isn't it ironic how pros make a fortune off of Fortnite but then scream at the clouds for their MLG/HCS to curb stomp even further on the masses. Nah, keep that shit in HSC playlist or esports events. Hopefully the new leadership at 343 understand why Bungie never fully embraced MLG to override their game developer decisions or majority game output.

Just an example of how the focal point of 343 for so many game releases was esports for half a game. In 3 releases there was so much there to build out with Azure driving the whole thing, so many ways to capture existing Halo fans with new modes of play to share, we got none of that and still don't. Honestly, in that time 343 could have realised the Bungie publishing platform dream from back in the day and developed a resalable backend system/support for online world building; integrated right into Unreal, if they hadn't of been so silly and gone out on their own with ShitSpace. MS/Xbox don't think big enough with their holistic company and talent/technologies. Christ it even suits their Gamepass/MTX/MAU mantra.

EDIT: Aside from all of the above, fingers crossed Max Hoberman knocks it out of the BR park. I hope he has more than just PvP/BR. I'm really hoping 343 have something with Max or soon aligned for PvE/shared/campaign hitting the wild.
 
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The Maw's Warthog run recreated in Infinite's Forge



Awesome to see. I hate to be a downer but you cannot help but wonder why no bot scripting for enemies or mini campaign forging etc? This Hog run could have been so much more with firefight type controls over enemies. Just merge Forge and Firefight really. I know that's a stupid tech task but as a gamer you look at things the other way round.
 

Havoc2049

Member
Can we get customs going on this one? I'm curious to see how it plays.


Looks decent. I actually think the remake of Sanctuary in Halo 2 Anniversary (H2A) looks way better though and that skybox in H2A Santuary is amazing and adds so much to the look and feel of the map. H2A and Halo 4 had some amazing skyboxes. Honestly, Halo 5 and Infinite seem like a downgrade in that department. I haven't messed around with Infinite forge yet to check out its skyboxes.

*Those weapon and explosion SFX really pack a nice punch!


Edit: Honestly, watching this video makes the map design in H2A feel more next gen than Halo 5 and Infinite.
 
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