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[Village]

What does that have to do with you're light skinned brother? He would also be black, that woman is black as well. She is black because she is of African descent, she is just as black as you, me or members of my family. If I see someone who looks like me why would I not call them black? I'm black, I'm not 100% African-American by any means.

She is whatever she identifies with, that is her choice you do not get to decide that. Your logic epically is flawed when it comes to people of mixed race, like myself. You do not get to decide who identifies with what, just shut up and deal with how they feel about themselves.

 

[TheOGB]

The question isn't what I think she is or what you think she is, it's what she thinks she is. If she doesn't identify as preta and you insist on calling her that, you're gonna make enemies. Same goes for all sorts of places down in the Carribean and South America. It doesn't matter what you think they are, or where they came from. If they tell you they're not black but Dominican, or Puerto Rican, or Cubano, or pardo, or moreno, I suggest letting it be.

THIS. I was just thinking about this last night.

This goes beyond race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, class or any of that shit. You should not decide who or what somebody is or how you'll treat them just by looking at them. You treat them with respect, and by getting to know them you LET THEM TELL YOU who they are and how they want to be treated.

Not necessarily true. Some of the voice sets (e.g. the British voice set, the "black" voice set, and the Latino voice set) react to different situations differently. For example, in SRII, the voice set recorded by the black VA specifically gets after Pierce when he's singing along with a Ne-Yo song.

Huh. I've only played through SR3, so I guess I wouldn't know about that, but what I was saying was a bit more of an 'in an ideal world' thing, with the Saints Row bit inspired by a thread from a while ago

 

[Village]

She does not look black dude.

Look at this

If anything I think this thread shows we have a long way to go as species on ethnic and cultural understanding.

This thread has also taught me that in the videogame world, white and asian chracters can look like anything, but a character isn't black until they're "black"

 

[Daingurse]

She is whatever she identifies with, that is her choice you do not get to decide that. Your logic epically is flawed when it comes to people of mixed race, like myself. You do not get to decide who identifies with what, just shut up and deal with how they feel about themselves.

Nah, I'll call things however I feel like seeing them. Being black is more than just skin tone, but she does fit the qualifiers of a black person. I don't answer to you, so you can really calm that shit down. But I'm done arguing this anyway, nothing here is going to change my viewpoint.

You really wanna go though life being that asshole?

Since I don't really bring up race randomly in conversation, I don't think I'll have any problems. But we're talking about race here and that's what I feel. My opinion on mixed races is it's all fair game. If you're half black/half white, you fit into both groups in my eyes. I don't give a shit what race a person identifies with really, but if you look more like one as opposed to another don't be surprised with people's assumptions. Obama's just as white as he is black, but that really doesn't seem to matter. Black, White, Brown, the shit is all shorthand really.

 

[Village]

Nah, I'll call things however I feel like seeing them. Being black is more than just skin tone and she fits those qualifiers. I don't answer to you, so you can really calm that shit down. But I'm done arguing this anyway, nothing really is going to change my viewpoint.

You really wanna go though life being that asshole?
Gotta friend who is Japanese and white, dude looks strait white, Identifies and preferred to be called Japanese.

You do not get to decide these things.

 

[ymmv]

Eh, my Brother is lighter than her, and he is black. So, skin color don't really matter anymore black people come in a bunch of tones.

Her father is Quincy the fuck Jones. You gotta come harder than just skin color in a race argument.

She's got a white mother, so that makes her mixed. Unless you believe in the one drop rule and the children of mixed marriages - and their children - and their children's children are by necessity black.

 

[staticneuron]

You really wanna go though life being that asshole?
Gotta friend who is Japanese and white, dude looks strait white, Identifies and preferred to be called Japanese.

You do not get to decide these things.

Because race is a society based construct, you can choose to identify yourself as whatever you want, society will never line up with personal choices. They will do it based off of what they see.

It is a habit but almost every human being does it instinctively. They look at a person and then they classify them. Judgmental people let it stop right there. Decent people will allow for perceptions to be changed.

But it is a nice thought though, one I had before then quickly realized that people judge you by looks in some countries and cease to care if your mixed unless you are in a position of power or influence.

Edit: Example, if Obama was a homeless person on a street nobody would be quick to bring up his mixed heritage. He would have been a black homeless person on the street. In interviews herself Rashida Jones acknowledge people thought she was white and in most peoples eyes the topic of her mixed heritage would not be pondered if she wasn't an actress.

 

[Catalix]

She is whatever she identifies with, that is her choice you do not get to decide that. Your logic epically is flawed when it comes to people of mixed race, like myself. You do not get to decide who identifies with what, just shut up and deal with how they feel about themselves.

Self-identification is only part of the equation, though. Eventually society at large gets to label a person as well, by physical appearance alone and without their personal consent.

Sure it sucks sometimes, but realistically, there's no way around it.

edit: basically what staticneuron just said

 

[IvorB]

...

 

[methane47]

THIS. I was just thinking about this last night.

This goes beyond race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, class or any of that shit. You should not decide who or what somebody is or how you'll treat them just by looking at them. You treat them with respect, and by getting to know them you LET THEM TELL YOU who they are and how they want to be treated.

I don't Agree. You can't just make things up and expect them to become truth.
I'm black, I can't one day decide that I'm chinese.

Doesn't matter how Offended I get if I'm considered black, i will STILL be black.

I don't get to CHOOSE my race.

If you have some heritage of Negroid, then you are negroid.
If you are a mix of multiple heritages, they you can claim one, but you exist as all.

I know Tiger woods doesn't want to be black. SORRY tiger, you partially black and hence for simplicity we can consider you as such.

I know Sammy Sosa doesn't want to be black, but SORRY you have black heritigae, it doesnt matter how much you dye your skin, you still are partly black, and hence for simplicity we can consider you as such.

Michael jackson, BLACK doesn't matter what color he felt he is, he still has black heritage and therefore he can be considered as such.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

This is getting ridiculous. Puerto Rican is not a race it is a nationality. When a consensus is tallied the will eventually be asked if they are white or black and then broken down eve further to hispanic and non-hispanic. Puerto Rico is a US territory.



Basically most places recognize it if you have genealogical ties to the specific race.

Since it is a social construct it is different for many nations. For most countries that had institutionalized slavery the term black is used to describe any and everyone not only with a traceable genetic history to Africa (mainly the sub Saharan regions) but also to describe people who have similar facial structures and skin tone. For some countries like Brazil, they recognize mulatto's as a race, where as in America they would be classified as black. In Australia the Aboriginals are considered black. In certain countries they would be recognized as a "native" which would have a different race classification.

So on and so forth. It is perception issue and depending on where you live, your society may simply have a different view on the subject.

Well I guess that's one definition for it. The context I most often see it used is to refer to people with dark skin and recent ancestors that originated from Africa. It's also used to refer to negative behaviour stereotypically associated with dark skinned people and referred to as undesirable or humorous in general.

My issue with the term is really how vague it can be since there isn't a universal definition for it that everyone can look to. Also the way I see it used is often dehumanizing.

And yes, even if you self identify as [insert identity here] you will still be labeled based off of your physical features by the majority of people.

That's partly why my personal definitions for white and black only mentioned skin tone and not place or people of origin. I don't see how it's fair that the origins of dark skinned people are frequently scrutinized while those with lighter skin are not.

 

[IvorB]

Race is a biological categorisation. People do not get to choose what race they are. You belong to a specific racial group and that's that. The only exceptions are people that are descended from parents of differing racial groups who are then mixed race. There's no choice in the matter.

For the topic I can't think of one actual black female protagonist in games which is sad.

 

[methane47]

Race is a biological categorisation. People do not get to choose what race they are. You belong to a specific racial group and that's that. The only exceptions are people that are descended from parents of differing racial groups who are then mixed race. There's no choice in the matter.

For the topic I can't think of one actual black female protagonist in games which is sad.

Assasin's Creed Vita is the one with the most marketting ever probabaly.

 

[IvorB]

Assasin's Creed Vita is the one with the most marketting ever probabaly.

Apparently her father was a white Frenchman and her a mother a black slave so she doesn't count unfortunately.

 

[methane47]

Apparently her father was a white Frenchman and her a mother a black slave so she doesn't count unfortunately.

LOL

ridiculous

 

[TheOGB]

I don't Agree. You can't just make things up and expect them to become truth.
I'm black, I can't one day decide that I'm chinese.

Doesn't matter how Offended I get if I'm considered black, i will STILL be black.

I don't get to CHOOSE my race.

If you have some heritage of Negroid, then you are negroid.
If you are a mix of multiple heritages, they you can claim one, but you exist as all.

Well no, you don't just say "I'm the king of the Netherlands" and it's true, that's not what I'm suggesting. A person should have the ability to define themselves--not make shit up, but say "I'm a 20-year-old heterosexual African-American male" (using myself for an example) and be respected. Also...

It is a habit but almost every human being does it instinctively. They look at a person and then they classify them. Judgmental people let it stop right there. Decent people will allow for perceptions to be changed.

This wasn't directed at me, but I can agree with this. It's okay to have a first impression of somebody, but that shouldn't be the entire basis of how you treat or interact with somebody. That's all I'm saying.

Societal labels are a different thing. But personally, I don't like that being classified as "black" made it okay for one to be treated as less than a human. I kinda didn't finish this thought, but that was on purpose. Basically, I'm not a big fan of race as a classification or whatever.

 

[Conciliator]

Rochelle is a fuckin great character. So much is communicated about her with so little. She's comfortably my favorite Left4Dead character.

You could say she's stereotypical, I guess, but living in a black-heavy area of the American south, I know a lot of people like her so she felt totally realistic. More Rochelles please.

 

[Swordy]

Maybe Seth from Lost Odyssey:

 

[Senor Kami]

I can only think of Sheva. I guess the remember me chick but I buy her being black as much as I buy Miley Cyrus being native american or Whoopi Goldberg being chinese

 

[Orochinagis]

So the OP mean african or being only with black skin?

I only remember sheva from RE5.

 

[bishoptl]

She does not look black dude.

What's the "black" look, then?

 

[Village]

Self-identification is only part of the equation, though. Eventually society at large gets to label a person as well, by physical appearance alone and without their personal consent.

Sure it sucks sometimes, but realistically, there's no way around it.

edit: basically what staticneuron just said

That works the other way around. I think.
T

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Rochelle in L4D2 and Pirannah in JSR ...uh yeah i dont play as many games as i used to...

 

[DonasaurusRex]

If anything I think this thread shows we have a long way to go as species on ethnic and cultural understanding.

This thread has also taught me that in the videogame world, white and asian chracters can look like anything, but a character isn't black until they're "black"

aye

/thread

 

[MWS Natural]

Race is a biological categorisation.

What? Uh...no.

 

[Catalix]

Maybe Seth from Lost Odyssey:

I liked that character a lot. I think she's a pretty good choice for this thread.

She'll probably also get "disqualified" for one reason or another

That works the other way around. I think.
T

Don't really see how, but ok.

 

[TomcatTheLion]

If anything I think this thread shows we have a long way to go as species on ethnic and cultural understanding.

This thread has also taught me that in the videogame world, white and asian chracters can look like anything, but a character isn't black until they're "black"

It almost seems like there are many factors to disqualify someone as black if they aren't really "black".

I liked that character a lot. I think she's a pretty good choice for this thread.

She'll probably also get "disqualified" for one reason or another

Agreed. She's a great contribution to the thread and was a pretty fun character in LO.

Though might be labeled as "not black" since she probably isn't "black" enough.

Lol.

 

[Village]

I liked that character a lot. I think she's a pretty good choice for this thread.

She'll probably also get "disqualified" for one reason or another

Don't really see how, but ok.

You present yourself, if they get incorrect you correct them.

Then they label you accordingly.

 

[DrSlek]

Nilin from Remember Me? Probably Rochelle from L4D2.

 

[fred]

Just thought I'd point out that I don't remember ever seeing a non-stereotypical protagonist in any video game, regardless of their race or gender. But if we had every day, non-good looking, unfit, overweight protagonists with zits to control playing a game...would we actually play them..?

I see enough ugly fuckers when I'm out and about, I certainly don't want to see more of them every time I fire up a console in the comfort of my own home lol.

 

[Village]

Just thought I'd point out that I don't remember ever seeing a non-stereotypical protagonist in any video game, regardless of their race or gender. But if we had every day, non-good looking, unfit, overweight protagonists with zits to control playing a game...would we actually play them..?

I see enough ugly fuckers when I'm out and about, I certainly don't want to see more of them every time I fire up a console in the comfort of my own home lol.

I do not think you are confusing, Idealized forms, with stereotypes.

 

[Catalix]

You present yourself, if they get incorrect you correct them.

Then they label you accordingly.

If you're dealing one-on-one with a reasonable human being, sure. But some people will still stubbornly adhere to their initial way of viewing that person. It's their choice.

And often times we don't even get the opportunity to personally engage people if they somehow "get it wrong". Ultimately, people's perception of who/what you are is kinda out of your hands.

I pretty much get what you meant now though.

 

[ctothej]

Jade from Beyond Good and Evil.

I don't think she's black.

Knew this would be on the first page.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Some people in this thread don't seem to understand that race is more than skin tone either.

Some of these characters getting thrown out could just as easily be Hispanic, Indian, Pacific Islander, Mediterranean, etc just by going off their colors.

I'll have to agree with that. Most people think any small tan means you're black. I myself would be considered black for these people lol.

 

[toastyToast]

People are getting hung up on the word black which is frustrating. For simplicity sake why not dark skinned female protagonists?

Someone has to be a Zulu type spear throwing motherfucker for the consensus to agree they're black

 

[NewGame]

I just want to throw out there that I thought Jade from Beyond Good and Evil was Puerto Rican (On her face appearance) or perhaps even Indonesian (Based on her style and how she meditates). She sort of has strong looking cheek bones and a big set of lips with more of a coffee/olive complexion

As far as being 'black' I thought the topic was referring to much darker, complexions OR specifically African Americans.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

in any "race" thread...

nothing drives me crazier than people equating nationality/religion with race lol

 

[ratcliffja]

That's very damn cool, especially because it is a point n click. I shall keep an eye out. Thank you both for the head's up!

It's my wife's favorite game... apparently. She wants me to point out that it has an interracial relationship too. It's definitely one of the better point and click adventures I've ever played.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I just want to throw out there that I thought Jade from Beyond Good and Evil was Puerto Rican (On her face appearance) or perhaps even Indonesian (Based on her style and how she meditates). She sort of has strong looking cheek bones and a big set of lips with more of a coffee/olive complexion

As far as being 'black' I thought the topic was referring to much darker, complexions OR specifically African Americans.

I believe Jade was meant to be an amalgam of lots of different races.

 

[staticneuron]

Well I guess that's one definition for it. The context I most often see it used is to refer to people with dark skin and recent ancestors that originated from Africa. It's also used to refer to negative behaviour stereotypically associated with dark skinned people and referred to as undesirable or humorous in general.

My issue with the term is really how vague it can be since there isn't a universal definition for it that everyone can look to. Also the way I see it used is often dehumanizing.

And yes, even if you self identify as [insert identity here] you will still be labeled based off of your physical features by the majority of people.

That's partly why my personal definitions for white and black only mentioned skin tone and not place or people of origin. I don't see how it's fair that the origins of dark skinned people are frequently scrutinized while those with lighter skin are not.

Describing people by color of skin/race shouldn't be an issue at all. It helps us further describe a person or group of people.

It became an issue when some cultures started using the races to separate society and create a class based system. Now there are people who are really ashamed to be a race or described in a certain manner because of the historical connotations and negative outlook society has given on some groups.

 

[Forceatowulf]

What is wrong with fran

It's a god damn fantasy bunny character, not a Black person. That's what's wrong.

Just because Fran stands up-right and has brown fur it doesn't make her a Black character. Just like if there was a white furred polar bear in a game, who stood up-right it wouldn't be considered a fucking White person. I mean, are you kidding me right now...

WHY THE FUCK DO I EVEN HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO HUMAN BEINGS

 

[Vodh]

It became an issue when some cultures started using the races to separate society and create a class based system. Now there are people who are really ashamed to be a race or described in a certain manner because of the historical connotations and negative outlook society has given on some groups.

You got it backwards. You're describing the situation as if it's been getting progressively worse in known history when as far as I know, racism was relatively less of an issue only in times when people lived on a flat earth and nobody had a fucking clue there are other races out there.

And I'm no expert, but I was under the impression that it's actually been getting progressively better, not worse. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that's the case at least as far as living memory goes. Not saying we're there and done with the issue, of course. So, yeah, the main thing that influences everyone's lives are other people and the historical legacy, what of it?

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

It's a god damn fantasy bunny character, not a Black person. That's what's wrong.

Just because Fran stands up-right and has brown fur it doesn't make her a Black character. Just like if there was a white furred polar bear in a game, who stood up-right it wouldn't be considered a fucking White person. I mean, are you kidding me right now...

WHY THE FUCK DO I EVEN HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO HUMAN BEINGS

dude... chill

 

[Forceatowulf]

man... chill

I'll chill when people stop comparing Black people to fantasy creatures that have nothing in common but the color of their fur.

I could possibly entertain the thought of letting this stupidity slide if her VA was Black or some shit. I could understand stupid people being a bit confused. But even that is no the case. The only thing "Black" about Fran is that she has a dark brown color. Nothing more.

 

[Daingurse]

dude... chill

He has a point. It's sad that it even needs to be explained, she's not fucking human! lol

 

[Vodh]

I'll chill when people stop comparing Black people to fantasy creatures that have nothing in common but the color of their fur.

Then what are the required characteristics for a non-stereotypical black person except for skin color?

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

People are getting hung up on the word black which is frustrating. For simplicity sake why not dark skinned female protagonists?

Someone has to be a Zulu type spear throwing motherfucker for the consensus to agree they're black

That's something I actually forgot to mention in one of my previous posts.

Using the term dark-skinned would probably garner a lot less negativity. You can just look 6 posts above for an example of the kind of negativity that can be generated when a character is labeled as black (it might be more now).

Describing people by color of skin/race shouldn't be an issue at all. It helps us further describe a person or group of people.

It became an issue when some cultures started using the races to separate society and create a class based system. Now there are people who are really ashamed to be a race or described in a certain manner because of the historical connotations and negative outlook society has given on some groups.

I agree with what you're saying but it's difficult when everyone's playing by different rules.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Then what are the required characteristics for a non-stereotypical black person except for skin color?

Does this represent a white, male protagonist in the context of the OP's question to you?

 

[Forceatowulf]

Then what are the required characteristics for a non-stereotypical black person except for skin color?

I don't even understand this question... try and ask it a different way please.

I do know one required characteristic I have for non-stereotypical Black people though: BEING AN ACTUAL FUCKING HUMAN BEING AND NOT A 7 FOOT TALL MONSTER CREATURE

 

[Vodh]

Does this represent a white, male protagonist in the context of the OP's question to you?

This is a cat, silly. Try asking about Zidane from FF IX.