Andronicus
Banned
pretty much. it should never have gone as far as it did.ElyrionX said:
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Dyack: "NeoGAF...I would say is probably the worst forum." Response.
- Thread starter EviLore
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Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
But who's to blame here?
I'm sorry but if you can't take criticism you shouldn't go on a rampage because you are so insecure and out of touch with reality. Fact is, coming from a majority of sources is that too human is too mediocre. Having experienced the game via a demo MANY others can attest to that fact, now now we all know we cant really judge something only based on a demo but the reviews ARE coming out and the games mediocrity seems to be an undeniable reality. The guy needs to get a grip, over analyzing/trying to put down an anonymous mostly ON target hardcore gaming community isnt the correct thing to do, real professionals dont throw a hiss fit because XxforumposterxX said something about how awful they felt their game was. What you do is you step back and see if there IS A PROBLEM and then you try to correct it or alleviate it, after that you return to the community and communicate to them the effort.
Mr.Dyack just got too close and got burned, it was his doing, professionals dont go to the extremes defending whats un-defendable and expect to walk out credited.
His latest statement seems to prove how out of touch he is. GAF and the rest of the passionate/hardcore gaming community appreciates the effort of SK and the entire team responsible for a the game, what Mr.Dyack has done was just the incorrect approach to things when it comes to mingling with the "community".
I'm sorry but if you can't take criticism you shouldn't go on a rampage because you are so insecure and out of touch with reality. Fact is, coming from a majority of sources is that too human is too mediocre. Having experienced the game via a demo MANY others can attest to that fact, now now we all know we cant really judge something only based on a demo but the reviews ARE coming out and the games mediocrity seems to be an undeniable reality. The guy needs to get a grip, over analyzing/trying to put down an anonymous mostly ON target hardcore gaming community isnt the correct thing to do, real professionals dont throw a hiss fit because XxforumposterxX said something about how awful they felt their game was. What you do is you step back and see if there IS A PROBLEM and then you try to correct it or alleviate it, after that you return to the community and communicate to them the effort.
Mr.Dyack just got too close and got burned, it was his doing, professionals dont go to the extremes defending whats un-defendable and expect to walk out credited.
His latest statement seems to prove how out of touch he is. GAF and the rest of the passionate/hardcore gaming community appreciates the effort of SK and the entire team responsible for a the game, what Mr.Dyack has done was just the incorrect approach to things when it comes to mingling with the "community".
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
Apharmd Battler said:
Of course it will have an impact on the sales. No doubt about it in my mind, that this game has been marketed for the hardcore and if this community doesn't go buy it in flocks and tell their friends about it, it will have an affect. How big? That's a question that can't be answered.
I know it's cool to dismiss the importance of GAF, but these reactions towards Too Human are being mirrored all over the place. All you have to do is take a look over at Kotaku and see how people are commenting on Too Human stories. This negative reaction is NOT specific to this community and that goes to show you that the impact from all of these little communities spread across the Internet are going to add up.
We're all connected at some level, it takes a special type of hardcore person to post on ANY site... it's a special type of engagement.
besada said:
The whole dennis dyack podcast is the equivalent of top-10 lists. Its good entertainment - like good tv. If that is all you are saying then yes I agree. Did they fail at journalists, or did you take the entertainment out of context? Are you not entertained? Did you not listen? Would you rathered they not air this crazy ass podcast when it was finished, or was it the way you think they handled the interview itself the problem.
It made for some funny threads, and some heartbreak.. but it wasn't their decision. It was a surprise attack by Dennis. If you think that makes them failures as journalists then so be it, but don't make it out like the guys from 1up post here only because its about money.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
:lol :lol @ their outrage over how long the thread is. It's not the same people over and over talking about the same thing over and over, guys.:lol For example, this very post.Baker said:
BravoSuperStar
Member
Flavius said:
Yeah I see what you are saying, but this isn't the only reason I dislike that site. Like I said i've never liked it and found it strange GAF has such an obsession with it. Now that its clear their agenda is to the almighty dollar and promotion of their site at the expense of journalist integrity I don't see any reason why I shouldn't speak my mind about my feelings. Feel free to disagree.
besada said:
Because the podcasts are simply filled with commercial interruptions, right?
Give me a fucking break.
What you seem to lack is an understanding that 1up, it's parent corporation, and the people who work for 1up are all separate entities. To paint them all with such a broad stroke is pretty insulting.
Businesses do not have ethics. Hopefully, at least some of the folks in charge do. It's a hell of a jump to suggest that because all corporations strive for profit that everyone who works for those corporations do whatever it takes to make a buck.
InterMoniker
Member
Yup I realized that some time ago.besada said:
And obviously the more controversial the article the more hits and bitchy flame wars... which lead more people to the site.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
1. awesome OP.
2. awesome Jaffe.
3. awesome thread.
This whole thing is what happens when you have a semi-obscure public figure that takes what a niche hardcore audience has to say personally. He probably values our opinion, as does Jaffe, because he too is a fan of games and if he wasn't making them he might still be here.
But at some point he has to start acting like a professional and focusing on what matters. Every single member of neogaf could promise to never by Too Human and SK would be out 10k-20k copies. Assuming that time and money eventually make a better product (a huge assumption i admit), he won't miss us.
A shame really. He needs our approval for personal reasons more than business reasons. In the grand scheme of things, neogaf is irrelevant, especially for any pub that wants to sell more than 20k copies of a game. The shame is not that you have one person that has a passion for his work and a crowd of anonymous wonks calling out opinions without any accountability, but the fact that he cares about what they say.
2. awesome Jaffe.
3. awesome thread.
This whole thing is what happens when you have a semi-obscure public figure that takes what a niche hardcore audience has to say personally. He probably values our opinion, as does Jaffe, because he too is a fan of games and if he wasn't making them he might still be here.
But at some point he has to start acting like a professional and focusing on what matters. Every single member of neogaf could promise to never by Too Human and SK would be out 10k-20k copies. Assuming that time and money eventually make a better product (a huge assumption i admit), he won't miss us.
A shame really. He needs our approval for personal reasons more than business reasons. In the grand scheme of things, neogaf is irrelevant, especially for any pub that wants to sell more than 20k copies of a game. The shame is not that you have one person that has a passion for his work and a crowd of anonymous wonks calling out opinions without any accountability, but the fact that he cares about what they say.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Chiggs said:
Yes, the poor souls that had nothing to do with this fiasco wouldn't appreciate a certain figurehead/leader tarnishing their blood/sweat/tears (the image I guess, lol as if it can get any worse) like a giant out of control baby.
You do feel sorry for them right? I'm sure some of them do care of what goes on, the backlash wouldn't be great for their careers if god forbid sales are abysmal right?
I posted my thoughts earlier today at my normal outlet. But I boiled it down to this:
Dyack needs a PR mouthpiece controlling him because he doesn't know how to gauge the identity of the audience he's trying to communicate with. In that way, he's basically a a hulking, dumb ogre with a target painted on his back. He doesn't understand what NeoGAF is good for and what it's bad for and completely misused his position in the industry. To that end, he failed hard. Will he learn from his mistakes? Probably not. He chased after the wrong thing in the wrong way with the wrong intentions. The first two would indicate a mistake, but now that he's revealed the third (his intentions), I realize there was no mistake. He, like many other developers, tends to just be a goddamn moron when he's allowed to talk without a choke-chain on his neck.
You see this a lot more often with the MMORPG sector of gaming, but here it's just... well... it's fucking pitiful.
Edit: If you really want to read the whole thing, I called it "In Defense of NeoGAF: An Open Letter to Denis Dyack," located here.
Dyack needs a PR mouthpiece controlling him because he doesn't know how to gauge the identity of the audience he's trying to communicate with. In that way, he's basically a a hulking, dumb ogre with a target painted on his back. He doesn't understand what NeoGAF is good for and what it's bad for and completely misused his position in the industry. To that end, he failed hard. Will he learn from his mistakes? Probably not. He chased after the wrong thing in the wrong way with the wrong intentions. The first two would indicate a mistake, but now that he's revealed the third (his intentions), I realize there was no mistake. He, like many other developers, tends to just be a goddamn moron when he's allowed to talk without a choke-chain on his neck.
You see this a lot more often with the MMORPG sector of gaming, but here it's just... well... it's fucking pitiful.
Edit: If you really want to read the whole thing, I called it "In Defense of NeoGAF: An Open Letter to Denis Dyack," located here.
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
SpeedingUptoStop said:
Kargion said:
Oh Kargion, if you only knew... 16 pages? We're just warming up...
Plus, that's just one thread.
AGAINST has the game!
I guess though dude has been asking for it. Trying to move the blame for his shitty product into a mass forum conspiracy to troll his crappy game of unlimited shititude to cover for his inadequacies as a game developer who has made nothing but abject shit that only the most devoted Gamecube tard could like was too far. The sin of your gimmicky Eternal Darkness and its slaughter of Lovecraft and legitimate influenced works is not one I personally take lightly, sir!
So here, now, the reality that many of us were all completely correct in assessing your game as a pile of shit before its release wasn't so far fetched after all. Your fault came in feeling the need to generalize that EVERYONE felt that way, or that it was any more punished than the normal shitty looking game. Did I mention how shitty Too Human has always looked? Shit!
I guess though dude has been asking for it. Trying to move the blame for his shitty product into a mass forum conspiracy to troll his crappy game of unlimited shititude to cover for his inadequacies as a game developer who has made nothing but abject shit that only the most devoted Gamecube tard could like was too far. The sin of your gimmicky Eternal Darkness and its slaughter of Lovecraft and legitimate influenced works is not one I personally take lightly, sir!
So here, now, the reality that many of us were all completely correct in assessing your game as a pile of shit before its release wasn't so far fetched after all. Your fault came in feeling the need to generalize that EVERYONE felt that way, or that it was any more punished than the normal shitty looking game. Did I mention how shitty Too Human has always looked? Shit!
It's all shits and giggles for us while it's Dyack's actually real life on the line on the other side. I won't defend his positions or what he said of GAF, but of course what we say here bears absolutely no weight to our professional or personal lives while on the other hand it means 10 years of his work and reputation.
After all the pressure from the media, the publisher and from us, hardcore gamers, he put it on himself to live up to everything ever mentioned about the game and decided to face the toughest crowd he could and ultimately he was the one who fell short and failed.
After all the pressure from the media, the publisher and from us, hardcore gamers, he put it on himself to live up to everything ever mentioned about the game and decided to face the toughest crowd he could and ultimately he was the one who fell short and failed.
PantherLotus said:
But GAF is full of evangelizers that go out into the world and promote fun games to their less-hardcore buddies. At least that's the impression I get. Similarly, companies like Microsoft are great at utilizing their 360 evangelizers via Xbox Live as you can see what your buddies are playing and quickly get connected.
If the majority of Gaffers think a game is bad, that word of mouth advertising that so many companies court can quickly backfire.
Dirtbag 504 said:
I think they broke the first rule of an interview, which is to not allow yourself to be used as a PR mouthpiece. That's my only real problem with the interview. When you interview someone, the interviewee is always trying to control the content. The job of a journalist is to not let them. Journalists are the fourth estate, and their role is to act as the people's advocate by keeping newsmakers honest. I think 1up failed at that, and in the process served the community poorly.
Also, if I implied that the only reason they're here is money, I didn't mean to. While there's no question in my mind that someone listened to that interview and grinned at the number of hits it was surely going to spawn, I think the individuals that post here largely do so because they enjoy gaming. I don't think that precludes their use of GAF as a source for news stories, just like it doesn't stop McWhertor from using GAF the same way on Kotaku.
xS1TH L0RDx
Banned
jesus christ, i go to work and come back to see this.
this thread is indeed epic.
but whats with people accusing 1up crew & dyack of podcasting just for site hits & money? perhaps i skipped a page on accident? or do people really just say things *that* outrageous?
this thread is indeed epic.
but whats with people accusing 1up crew & dyack of podcasting just for site hits & money? perhaps i skipped a page on accident? or do people really just say things *that* outrageous?
It took me 30 min to read everything.
Evilore did justice for GAF in reasonable terms. Im just glad that Denis is gone. Not just because he went apeshit after criticisms, but for being hardheaded and expecting too much from his game he spoiled too much.
Well hopefully this thread doesn't escalate to something else.
true that.
Evilore did justice for GAF in reasonable terms. Im just glad that Denis is gone. Not just because he went apeshit after criticisms, but for being hardheaded and expecting too much from his game he spoiled too much.
Well hopefully this thread doesn't escalate to something else.
GAF vs. Too Human forum ugh..
sp0rsk said:
true that.
GhaleonQ
Member
besada said:
While they can't be completely exonerated for what could have have been 1 1/2 hours of rewriting history, there's a time for Meet The Press and there's a time for C-SPAN. Khrushchev going on about American imperialism and banging his shoe on the podium didn't need commentary, and this was the gaming equivalent.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
eXxy said:
You're right, never assume anything is a moneymaker when it comes to 1up.
As for Evilore, well done.
wmat said:
Something tells me that, short of a guy with a shovel willing to smack the shit out of him across the back of his head, that person does not exist.
Did anyone else listen to his PR handler during the last 1up Yours? It reminded me of that one old episode of Married...with Children when Peg won the personal trainer and the buff guy went in to shape her up only to get fat and join her on the couch watching soap operas and eating bonbons.
Clearly, Denis had already infected her with his insanity.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Flavius said:
Holy crap, I felt exactly the same. I just didn't know how to verbalize it. That was beautiful!
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
Zeliard said:
Don't forget the socialist/industrialist club he was asked to join.
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
Amir0x said:
AND...this thread reached a new low.
BishopLamont
Banned
Jesus Christ the people who think they are "above all this childish stuff" really needs to step back and just relax a little. This dude had it coming. He made a promise that he didn't deliver on, all the while slandering a whole community. I didn't follow this controversy from the beginning, but just reading his posts on GAF and reading those links in the OP is enough for me to see how much of a douchebag this guy is. Justice served and let this be a lesson to anyone whole thinks they are immune to do whatever the fuck they want on GAF.
besada said:
Well in that case we are mostly in agreement. I have a harder time swallowing the PR mouthpiece part, but I won't say you are necessarily wrong about that. I guess the reason I have trouble with it is because the closing statement, was Garnet's total disagreement, and frustration with the whole interview. I thought Shane sounded sheepish, but 1up isn't just shane, its the whole cast.
drakesfortune
Directions: Pull String For Uninformed Rant
The worst part of this whole thing is the Gaf VS 1up aspect. I love Gaf. I love 1up. Please be friends.
I agree 1up could have done more to come back at Denis when he was on the show, but I also understand why they didn't. If I had a podcast there would be nothing better for it than to have both a controversy and a developer come in and say outlandish, crazy, and entertaining things about the controversy. Honestly, that Dyack bit and this whole thing has probably been best for 1up. They were a bit of an intermediary, and they got the big interview we all wanted to hear. I'm glad they both gave him that time, and aired it, because it was extremely entertaining. I think Shane was too cuddly with Dyack, but Garnett made up for it by questioning Dyack on some key points, and also with this video:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168552
I agree 1up could have done more to come back at Denis when he was on the show, but I also understand why they didn't. If I had a podcast there would be nothing better for it than to have both a controversy and a developer come in and say outlandish, crazy, and entertaining things about the controversy. Honestly, that Dyack bit and this whole thing has probably been best for 1up. They were a bit of an intermediary, and they got the big interview we all wanted to hear. I'm glad they both gave him that time, and aired it, because it was extremely entertaining. I think Shane was too cuddly with Dyack, but Garnett made up for it by questioning Dyack on some key points, and also with this video:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168552
ToastyFrog
Inexplicable Treasure Hate
Doug, I'm touched that you still think about me, ever after all these years! It's funny, but we mentioned you while recording Retronauts yesterday. It's kismet -- as though we're cosmically connected, somehow.Drinky Crow said:
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Both GAF and Dyack just seem childish as hell.
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