23 Game Studios according to their own site
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MasterCornholio
Member
I thought the CMA was already aware of the deal when they made that decision. I remember the 10 year deal with Nintendo was being talked about for a really long time.
DrFigs
Member
It kind of just sounds like you agree that xbox is doing what they need to do right now to win people back. Down to having exclusives and smaller AA games. It's just kind of weird since you also wrote that they need to do a lot more work - but it's not clear what more you think they can be doing that they're not already doing.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
It would be difficult.
Look at what Sony is doing with their studios and IP. They're about to hit the next level. Microsoft hasn't even obtained where sony was in the late 2000s. They're nearly 20 years behind in studio maturity. That's not something you can just flip the switch on.
I'd still say Nintendo makes the best 1st party games but Sony is closer to catching Nintendo than Microsoft is of catching Sony.
We're going to see how their maturity allows them to do more varied games though, it could blow up in their face as they pivot towards this GaaS trend.
Think about competing with Naughty Dog in 2009. You have to put out a game as good as Uncharted 2. Now think about competing with Naughty Dog in between 2013-2016 while they're producing the last of us and Uncharted 4 pretty much at the same time. NOW think about competing with Naughty Dog in 2022 to 2024 where they're almost certainly working on a major MP game, a major new IP, put out a remake of one of their most popular titles, and porting that to PC, and could at some point be bringing in TLOU3 and working with a sister studio on an Uncharted game... AND having just helped produce Uncharted Movie and TLOU TV show....
There is not a single studio that Microsoft has right now that can do all of this.
Meanwhile, you look at Insomniac who just did Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart, Miles Morales and are going to put out Spider-Man 2 and Wolverine... That's insane production. Miles, Spider-Man 2, and Wolverine... that's a minimum of 30 million units sold, but more likely in the range of 45 million units. That's from ONE studio... And who knows if they're working on something like Sunset Overdrive for PS5 and PC or a remaster of the Resistance series or a reboot...
This is all new in Sony's history and it took studio expansion and maturity to get there. Is there any major studio working on AAA games for Microsoft seeing crazy growth right now? You look at iD Software, MachineGames, and Bethesda and they're all flat or negative on linkedin.
DarkMage619
Member
Apparently they didn't need one Gabe Newell trusts Microsoft to honor their word.
Gabe Newell trusts Microsoft after Call of Duty commitment to Steam, even if the FTC doesn't
Maybe Microsoft can call on him as a character witness.
dotesports.com
No one can point to even one deal MS violated in the gaming space despite the narrative pushed by some.
You continue to bring this up yet ignore that the FTC can overrule any decision the administrative court comes up with. Pretty easy to have a 100% win record when you control the final outcome. Now tell us their win record in federal court where they CAN'T overrule the outcome. Here is a start:
Meta acquisition of Within reportedly approved by court in loss for FTC
The FTC sued to block Meta's acquisition of Within in July, arguing Meta was using the deal "to buy its way to the top," rather than compete on its own merits.
www.cnbc.com
The CMA only recently got the formal responses to their findings. It doesn't matter what was talked about in the media if it wasn't formally submitted.
MasterCornholio
Member
The 10 year deal is considered a behavioral remedy correct?
MasterCornholio
Member
Iam trump supporter.
Also thank you for explaining why US invade British.
OK can't say I'm surprised that your gone. Anyways when you come back please refrain from saying things like that.
Topher
Member
I'm ignoring nothing. That was an entirely separate point. Hoeg is discussing the three different structural remedies proposed by the CMA. Yes, Hoeg makes a point that the third item, divesting Blizzard, doesn't make sense as Blizzard hasn't been a point of contention. That is an entirely different argument than when he is talking about point two, divestiture of Activision, where he falsely claims it isn't feasible since "Activision Blizzard King is in the Call of Duty business".
reinking
Member
NM. I figured it out like a big boy.
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demigod
Member
Closing down Lionhead was a huge mistake. Letting Amazon buy Double Helix was another.
freefornow
Member
From Linkedin:
Rick's practice is focused on the areas of general corporate formation, governance, and finance with particular emphasis on entrepreneurship, venture capital, and mergers and acquisitions. He has worked extensively with start-up and mid-stage enterprises, including those in the life science, software, and technology fields.
Well, he knows more than me about mergers and aquisitions.
EDIT: aaand, 5 pages late!
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reinking
Member
With the Zenimax/Bethesda deal they added a large number of quality IPs to their portfolio. Why would I not think MS has capable studios? They have a fantastic stable of studios.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
laynelane
Member
I think gullible might be applicable too. The 'appeal to authority' fallacy has been in full-swing for a while now.
mansoor1980
Member
facts
gothmog
Member
Buying more publishers isn't going to fix that. Writing large checks in most cases will cause you to acquire a hollowed out version of that company. The ones with incentive now have retirement level money. The ones that don't are typically upset they didn't get a piece and will leave for greener pastures. You can offer retention incentives but all that does is delay things.
The thing that might work is offering incentives to actual third parties to deliver quality exclusives. Sony does this where they hire a company to do something with the understanding that they might be acquired if they produce a hit. It keeps the management intact to drive the game forward. It introduces the team to the concept of working closely with the acquiring company.
The problem is I don't think Xbox is very healthy as a parent company. They have plenty of talking heads and technologists, but seem to lack middle management that have the technical and logistic experience to "get shit done".
IFireflyl
Member
You cry a lot. Hope you got your TV fixed.
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Edmund
Member
It's sad that this video is 2 days old and only has 5.9k views. People don't want to listen to the truth.
Mibu no ookami
Member
They need to buy themselves time that they don't have.
Very different situation from Sony.
They need games yesterday. They need to be able to have studios essentially wipe their books clean and start fresh without tech debt. You can't do that in the middle of developing games.
Sony for the most part doesn't take on tech debt, because they don't have to.
DarkMage619
Member
Yes. Any remedy that doesn't require MS to break up the asset it is acquiring is behavioral.
ToadMan
Member
They were and specifically commented on that 10 year deal in the PF document already - 7.264 below. But if you read from page 143 onwards the CMA talk about all of this.
In summary, the CMA don’t like these deals because over time the ability to enforce them diminishes.
Oh and they throw shade on MS’s ability to deliver an equivalent experience on Switch here for good measure.
Bear in mind this document predates the MS response from last week.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
With the Zenimax/Bethesda deal they added a large number of quality IPs to their portfolio. Why would I not think MS has capable studios? They have a fantastic stable of studios.
This looks like an impressive list until you realize half the studios haven't done anything of commercial note and another quarter of them are pretty average.
You can tell microsoft doesn't believe in these studios because almost all of them are flat lined in terms of growth or negative. I think the coalition is one of the only ones that isn't flat, but we have to keep an eye on whether that changes in coming months.
If you look at Sony, depending which studio, they're pretty aggressively hiring, with the exception of santa monica and firesprite who just published games.
The circle jerk in here is insane. Rational thought is very rare in deed. They will insult, mock, bully, dogpile anyone that doesn't think like them. All because they can't stand the thought of Playstation having some real competition.
ToadMan
Member
I’m not ignoring it - that is exactly my point. MS will lose in the administrative court process if it gets that far.
Tell me, what is the relevance of the verdict in this case to the MS-ABK acquisition?
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
Not liking the deal and wanting it to fail is not analogous to "can't standing the thought of playstation having some real competition".
Many of us want a more competitive Microsoft by improving their first party output naturally with the studios they already have and fixing whatever issues cause them to get delayed or of lesser quality, rather than buying out the biggest publisher in the business in a completely unnecessary move that does nothing to progress gaming forward.
X-Wing
Member
Mibu no ookami
Member
They were and specifically commented on that 10 year deal in the PF document already - 7.264 below. But if you read from page 143 onwards the CMA talk about all of this.
In summary, the CMA don’t like these deals because over time the ability to enforce them diminishes.
Oh and throw shade on MS’s ability to deliver an equivalent experience on Switch here for good measure.
Bear in mind this document predates the MS response from last week.
The same is true of the Nvidia deal. The blatant mistruth of this bringing CoD to 150 million new users is laughable, which is why I was surprised that the EU (rumored) to have bought into it.
ToadMan
Member
Yeah seemed ok.
Jez Corden’s response was … interesting.
Apparently this Reforge guy was banned from Twitch about 2 years ago - I guess around the same time as Dr Disrespect and coincidentally when the Angry Joe stuff was blowing up, for alleged sexual harassment.
Does that make his opinion on this less relevant? Presumably Jez Corden thinks so since he raised that topic, and why Jez didn’t think to actually talk to the points raised in the video?
Well you can make up your own mind
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Mibu no ookami
Member
Their studios have a mountain of tech debt and their contractor policies make things even more difficult. You combine this with the need for system-selling games toot sweet...? It's a bad combination of games growing in scope but missing sprint objectives, which undoubtedly causes delays. Inject contractors coming and going as per Microsoft policy and now all of a sudden you've lost the expertise and manpower to address a sprint later in the dev cycle, which means everything gets thrown off.
This is a reason why people have suggested that Microsoft move to Unreal Engine across the board, but that's pretty costly too.
gothmog
Member
It's going to be difficult to fix. This is one of those MCU/DCEU things where DC tried to fast forward success and it is was obvious they're both outclassed and out planned by the competition. Just like WB they had plenty of money to try and force it and why some of the movies had financial success overall it was a flop.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Yeah seemed ok.
Jez Corden’s response was … interesting.
Apparently this Reforge guy was banned from Twitch about 2 years ago - I guess around the same time as Dr Disrespect and coincidentally the t Joe stuff was blowing up, for alleged sexual harassment.
Does that make his opinion on this less relevant? Presumably Jez Corden thinks so since he raised that topic, and why Jez didn’t think to actually talk to the points raised in the video?
Well you can make up your own mind
Ah yes, digging up garbage in the past and not addressing what he's talking about at all.
Glad someone is calling out these guys like Jez for the garbage they spew constantly on twitter, not doing any sort of reporting but being a corporate propagandist.
reinking
Member
...but why should the market have to compensate for XBox previous failings? With that said, I still believe these studios are very capable of producing quality content. It is up to Xbox to manage them so that they are productive.
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Mibu no ookami
Member
I think it's considerably worse than that.
DC has actually made quite a few very financially successful movies. Dark Knight Trilogy, Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, Aqua Man, Joker.
Similar management mistakes, but it's easier to wipe the slate clean with movies. Look at Joker and The Batman... Look at Marvel Phase 4.
Microsoft has to overcome tangible issues with their code bases.
Imagine if Sony tried to immediately integrate Bungie into PlayStation Studios and in doing so said, you've got to use Decima engine...
I mean Bungie needs to figure out their own tech debt, but this isn't the first time they've needed to, but for now they're on the outside of PlayStation Studios and nothing they do negatively impacts these other studios.
Look at Sony Bend, they don't really have an engine of their own and given their geography it makes sense to use Unreal engine for recruiting. It's exactly what CDPR is doing now too. They're trying to wipe away the tech debt that got them in trouble with cyberpunk and recruit their way back to the top, even if it means bringing in international developers.
CDPR can do this because they don't need to sell a console. Do you know who does? Microsoft.
The idea that Bethesda was going to be ready for next gen so quickly despite their size and history... We'll see how they come with Creation Engine 2... but their lack of display for the game should give people pause. You'd think Microsoft would be forcing them to show stuff, but they aren't... because seeing it early would cause backlash just like we saw with Halo Infinite, Gotham Knights, and Suicide Squad.
Mibu no ookami
Member
I never said the market has to compensate for them. I'm saying Microsoft has every incentive to try and bring in more quality content and faster. I don't have faith in their current studios to turn anything around and you can tell that they don't either. They're downsizing across the board or staying flat.. despite being so early into the console cycle, and despite not having released much so far.
Gone
Member
Oh a Sony fanboy telling people what makes a good game, imagine my shock.
Not every game has to be a 3rd person action adventure game with some artificial "deep touching message", and that's why Sony are crying over an FPS game because guess what? It's fun to play.
Sanepar
Member
Yeah i Sony fanboy who has a PC and Xbox Series X lol and not even a playstation. I would by sales people prefer what Sony delivers and yes Sony delivers high quality games for who enjoy sp games.
Microsoft has since 2017 a service they delivery all their games day one and didn't move 1% in their favor. So yes audience is major with Sony.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
what is the source that image?With the Zenimax/Bethesda deal they added a large number of quality IPs to their portfolio. Why would I not think MS has capable studios? They have a fantastic stable of studios.
reinking
Member
Google.
knocksky
Member
Yeah, the Xbox fanboys have gone quiet regarding exclusivity.What happened to the Xbox fans cheering that COD was going exclusive as soon as the deal was announced? They all changed their tune when Phil signaled they need to pretend it won't so they can get this deal through, just like the Zenimax one. Kinda like how they were spouting BS about how Series X was going to blow away PS5 in every DF comparison, by 30% or more, only to change their tune when it didn't happen. It became, "Why do you guys care about these comparisons so much?"
As for your question, we learned about the backroom deal MS was trying to push on Sony, where they take COD away after this gen, while publicly acting like they would never take it away. Of course, the regulators didn't like that, so they tried to make it 10 years. In other words, if MS gets COD, it WILL be taken away from its largest audience, PS gamers. Fortunately, it seems like the CMA isn't quite down for that.
What backroom deal are you referring to? I must have missed that
BrutalTruth_
Member
I have seen 0 people cheer any "exclusivity" with CoD.
Everyone knows you can't make CoD an exclusive, they'd lose so much money, where are your getting your info? Twitter?