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[animlboogy]

GAF was better than the Kotaku and Joystiq comments, but... that's not exactly setting a high bar. And it wasn't THAT much better at first, although it did turn around by the end.

Of course I'm appreciative for people like you and RagingSpaniard and Feep defending us, but through the day I was getting linked to the thread by devs all day seething with rage at that thread and not any of the other sources. So I think that thread in particular touched a nerve because they, like me, expected better from GAF.

Well, now that the funding was a success, and most people seem to view that initial reaction with shame, I hope openness about budgets continues. I'm not a dev, just the kind of person who likes to be informed on that level for all my interests... So yeah, that thread was an eye opener as to how ignorant people can be. It's almost like you guys took a bullet, and we hopefully won't see that kind of ignorance next time around.

 

[educator]

When will employees working in public relations learn NOT to use twitter for personal use, or any use of that matter? I hope Adam gets fired for his actions, I just can't see Microsoft letting this go.

Like I thought, they sacked him. It's not only about him being an asshole on Twitter, it's about a grown man in public relations making personal statements about a very sensitive topic in an open forum.

One more time, when will these people learn NOT to use Twitter? How hard can it be to just keep your fingers off the keyboard and stop tweeting 'bout stuff that's obviously not very smart to even remotely hint at.

 

[Ravidrath]

What are the main negative reactions to this news?

"what about people who don't have internet?"

"I don't like forced DRM."


Do you think MS hasn't thought about either of these over the last 2, 3 possibly 4 years of developing this? Do you think now there's a top man at MS going "oh shit we forgot about people without an internet connection, call it off guys!!" And do I need to talk about MS and DRM?

I think Orth's comparison to an AppleTV is telling, actually.

I've been hearing a lot of rumblings that gaming is basically being back-burnered in Durango, and TV, movies, and other forms of entertainment are the primary focus. And, yeah, those applications would require an internet connection to be useful and people won't complain about that.

So if that's the case, Microsoft has even less reason to be concerned with the opinions of gamers.

Well, now that the funding was a success, and most people seem to view that initial reaction with shame, I hope openness about budgets continues. I'm not a dev, just the kind of person who likes to be informed on that level for all my interests... So yeah, that thread was an eye opener as to how ignorant people can be. It's almost like you guys took a bullet, and we hopefully won't see that kind of ignorance next time around.

We're lucky that people turned around - we expected that reaction outside of our core fans, but it was much deeper and more poisonous than we ever expected. The early "reporting" by Joystiq the night before we launched certainly didn't help set a good tone, either.

...But, yeah, in the end it turned out well for us. And hopefully people learned stuff and it'll be good the next time around.

I've seen a few articles since our campaign started saying that we had just about the perfect funding campaign, in large part because we actually told people how we were using the money, which is always a vague thing with Kickstarters and the like. But it was a big risk to be the first to do that.

 

[ekim]

Just woke up, checked GAF, guy got possibly fired, grab coffee... I'm sorry for him.

 

[Rulp]

This situation is cute as can be.

 

[travisbickle]

Well that's one way to spin it. Then there's the fact that half the internet was up in arms at the mere whiff of always online, but nevermind that.

Spin what? I don't know for sure if they will require online or not? But if they did, the idea they will stop with it because the internet said it's bad, as if they believe MS hasn't thought about the negative reaction, is unrealistic.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

See, your inability to grasp my point strikes me just like how I think their inability to grasp your point would be.

And you're just doing it based on a feeling, and they're doing it based on years of investment and focus group testing.




GAF was better than the Kotaku and Joystiq comments, but... that's not exactly setting a high bar. And it wasn't THAT much better at first, although it did turn around by the end.

Of course I'm appreciative for people like you and RagingSpaniard and Feep defending us, but through the day I was getting linked to the thread by devs all day seething with rage at that thread and not any of the other sources. So I think that thread in particular touched a nerve because they, like me, expected better from GAF.

Well i will try talk to my friend and hope he can talk to Don and Phil about all these PR disaster,i mean actually i know that Metro UI designer+investor of Tequila Works guy who call Kotaku and some gaf members are "idiot" because he think Adam just casual talk with his friend at that time(http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52733061&postcount=2021),but everything is changed now,and his position in Microsoft should higher than Adam so i will try to show him "look all these threads and internet rage and retailers respond" and hope him can do something

What are the main negative reactions to this news?

"what about people who don't have internet?"

"I don't like forced DRM."


Do you think MS hasn't thought about either of these over the last 2, 3 possibly 4 years of developing this? Do you think now there's a top man at MS going "oh shit we forgot about people without an internet connection, call it off guys!!" And do I need to talk about MS and DRM?

I think they may forget about there are people can always online but still don't like this "feature" and if MS choose to do it,they won't buy it,require online won't just simply kick out "i can't online" group.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Microsoft think they have as much brand power as Apple. They are in for a rude awakening. Heck even Apple has had its blips. There comes a point when people will see the bullshit you are serving and simply reply fuck you (at least thats what I hope).

I remember when there was news about gold live members having ads on their dashboard. Microsoft fed them the argument that they used gold subscriptions to pay for online servers and such but here they are with ads that should more than pay for any extra cost of live servers.

 

[jorma]

That's his point. You, one person on the internet, thinks it's a bad idea. There are obviously benefits to this system that's why it has been suggested and, according to rumour, developed to an advanced stage now...do you think you could persuade enough people within MS that were part of the process that developed an "always online" console so that they would change course and remove that function?

But none of those "benefits" are friendly to the consumer. Not a single potential upside to the consumer has been named (that i know of) in over 10.000 posts, but plenty of downsides.

They are all publisher benefits, and since i'm not a publisher, well surely i'm going to object to them? It's not rocket science - i could have figured that out with a high school education alone, don't need 20 years in the industry to know it's a bad thing FOR ME.

 

[Messofanego]

If by 'hype' you meant something like this then yeah:

We need more GIFs for abandoning hype trains.

 

[unbias]

I think Orth's comparison to an AppleTV is telling, actually.

I've been hearing a lot of rumblings that gaming is basically being back-burnered in Durango, and TV, movies, and other forms of entertainment are the primary focus. And, yeah, those applications would require an internet connection to be useful and people won't complain about that.

So if that's the case, Microsoft has even less reason to be concerned with the opinions of gamers.




We're lucky that people turned around - we expected that reaction outside of our core fans, but it was much deeper and more poisonous than we ever expected. The early "reporting" by Joystiq the night before we launched certainly didn't help set a good tone, either.

...But, yeah, in the end it turned out well for us. And hopefully people learned stuff and it'll be good the next time around.

I've seen a few articles since our campaign started saying that we had just about the perfect funding campaign, in large part because we actually told people how we were using the money, which is always a vague thing with Kickstarters and the like. But it was a big risk to be the first to do that.

I would bet that the only reason they feel comfortable doing this, is because they assume an install base that will come directly from the 360. Quite a stupid idea, considering console history.

 

[Trent Strong]

I think Orth's comparison to an AppleTV is telling, actually.

I've been hearing a lot of rumblings that gaming is basically being back-burnered in Durango, and TV, movies, and other forms of entertainment are the primary focus. And, yeah, those applications would require an internet connection to be useful and people won't complain about that.

So if that's the case, Microsoft has even less reason to be concerned with the opinions of gamers.

But why would someone buy a $400 Durango to watch stuff like Netflix and Hulu or to rent movies, when they can buy a $100 Apple TV or Roku that does all those things?

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

I think Orth's comparison to an AppleTV is telling, actually.

I've been hearing a lot of rumblings that gaming is basically being back-burnered in Durango, and TV, movies, and other forms of entertainment are the primary focus. And, yeah, those applications would require an internet connection to be useful and people won't complain about that.

So if that's the case, Microsoft has even less reason to be concerned with the opinions of gamers.

They created 10+ game studios for next gen since 2010 so i don't think they will simply ignore gamers

 

[Fistwell]

Spin what? I don't know for sure if they will require online or not, but if they did the idea they will stop with it because the internet said it's bad, as if they believe MS hasn't thought about the negative reaction, is unrealistic.

Spin what? Not sure if serious. The situation and series of events that have occurred? And of course the internet was going to say "it's bad," you're shoulder slamming a door that's wide open. The point is there's a significant difference between MS officially announcing nextbox is online and the internet "says it's bad," and the internet auto-combusting at the mere mention of possible always online by a nobody that happens to be working at microsoft. If you can't grasp the difference I can't help you there.

That being said, I don't believe for one second that MS is gonna change plans over this.

 

[tafer]

They sold 76M Xbox 360s.

The think they "won" this generation, even though they sold fewer consoles than Nintendo or Sony.

There are maybe a few hundred thousand people at most that will see or care about this news story now, and most of them will forget by the time the system is out.

GAF is part of a vocal minority, nothing more. And even if we do end up being "right" and it does prove to be bad for business, they have plenty of data and work they've already paid for to justify their current position, and plenty of money to try and rectify it.

Windows 8 or even the recent Office fiasco are some of the biggest and most recent examples of a MS that tries and fails to force something to their customers. And you can bet that they had studies that confirmed that they were going to get away with their awful plans.

Not to mention that even at this point the non officially announced console is earning "enemies" while its direct competition seems to be loved by everyone.

If we add anti-consumer and potentially problematic practices to the formula... we have problems.

 

[slider]

...so i don't think they will simply ignore gamers

Yeah I agree. It will go hand in hand with their other efforts and that's a good thing. I just hope they maintain the gaming effort throughout the lifetime of the Durango.

 

[Hoo-doo]

They created 10+ game studios for next gen since 2010 so i don't think they will simply ignore gamers

How many of these studios are set to actually crank out games aimed to the core though? Guess we'll find out later this generation.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

How many of these studios are set to actually crank out games aimed to the core though? Guess we'll find out later this generation.

I think...half at least
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511206&page=28

 

[cripterion]

OP, include these earlier tweets, too:

Wow... this douche needs to be slapped silly!

 

[Hoo-doo]

I think...half at least
http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511206&page=28

What is that page supposed to tell me? Is there a list somewhere at least?

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Maybe one of them can take Rare's place in providing the cute kinect games and such. Maybe that's why MS now has the OK to make a Killer Instinct game.

 

[akira28]

it would be so cool if Durango turns out to be online-only and gets cracked on day 1

hahah oh right, I forgot people did that. hahah that would be amusing indeed.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

What is that page supposed to tell me? Is there a list somewhere at least?

Yes i remember there a list,but i forget which page.

 

[Mascot]

Wow, this thread is still going strong. Approaching a million views, too. I wonder how many of those are from MS executives?

 

[Oblivion]

Two things:

1. This guy is was the creative director for Microsoft Game Studios. Not exactly an entry level position, I'd imagine. Call it a guess, but I'd say that this dude's pretty well off. There's no need for anyone to shed any tears on his behalf.

2. Did the "Sweet Billy" stuff have any effect spreading this story quicker than it would have?

 

[madmackem]

But why would someone buy a $400 Durango to watch stuff like Netflix and Hulu or to rent movies, when they can buy a $100 Apple TV or Roku that does all those things?

Thats the thing that always gets me, you can do all that shit now and for free on ps3, with these new consoles coming those prices will drop even more. Why would you buy a new console to stream content you can on a million other things that cost alot less money. I really worry if msft puts too many eggs in this entertainment box because i dont see the pull for the average consumer.

 

[ciridesu]

Maybe there's a twist where xbox live is now for the offline mode

 

[BigDug13]

Thats the thing that always gets me, you can do all that shit now and for free on ps3, with these new consoles coming those prices will drop even more. Why would you buy a new console to stream content you can on a million other things that cost alot less money. I really worry if msft puts too many eggs in this entertainment box because i dont see the pull for the average consumer.

Not to mention TV's, bluray players, these are devices that are also starting to be able to do this stuff themselves. A new TV can already stream Netflix and Hulu with nothing attached.

Was Microsoft's own rental service via Xbox such a big success that their hubris can take over and take a dump on their customer base?

 

[itsgreen]

If Always-Online isn't true, then why fire the guy? Why not just issue a simple denial and apologize for his tone?

Because he put the company he works for in a very public way in a bad light?
Because he caused at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars of bad PR?

I do feel sorry for him and I do feel he shouldn't have been fired. (Because) this was probably the worst day in his life. That said, I can totally understand that you as a company have no other choice to fire him if he causes this much damage to you. And it also fucks up their plans.

 

[madmackem]

Not to mention TV's, bluray players, these are devices that are also starting to be able to do this stuff themselves. A new TV can already stream Netflix and Hulu with nothing attached.

Was Microsoft's own rental service via Xbox such a big success that they're hubris can take over and take a dump on their customer base?

Yep even if they do go this cable box why would people see that as a selling point if they already have a cable box. Its all very strange and i hope that the direction they are going in isnt the one we all feel they are.

 

[Harlock]

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

He got fired forreal? Shinobi.jpg

 

[IHaveIce]

I don't disagree! But they keep using them as justification for every single thing they do, and seem quite happy to keep doing that despite evidence to the contrary.

And their data that they paid for, however bad it will seem in hindsight, will always be perceived as more actionable than the inchoate feelings of internet people.

Oh yes now I got you. Of course you are right.


Also what many seem to misunderstand ( or maybe I am the one misunderstanding it all) is the real issue with always on, for me it isn't if I have to be online it is what happens if I'm not avle to connect caused by issues of microsoft.

Or a server breakdown or even a server attack and longer downtime (PSN) I wouldn't be able to do anything with the device in a time that could be without a given timer but I didn't do anything wrong or with nothing is wrong with my connection.


Also what happens with savedata at a disconnect?

OF course it is stupid at all to exclude potential buyers just because they aren't online

 

[rObit]

I remember when there was news about gold live members having ads on their dashboard. Microsoft fed them the argument that they used gold subscriptions to pay for online servers and such but here they are with ads that should more than pay for any extra cost of live servers.

Man it's real late here and everything, but I'm pretty sure there are too many percents going on here.

 

[rdrr gnr]

GAF --> Internet --> GAF?

 

[unbias]

GAF --> Internet --> GAF?

Was thinking the same thing.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Man it's real late here and everything, but I'm pretty sure there are too many percents going on here.

Xbox 360 goes to 110%!

 

[Silphonica]

If the next console is always online, I will stand by my word, I'm out.

 

[Ellasman]

Someone explain to me why they want to make it "always online".

 

[unbias]

Someone explain to me why they want to make it "always online".

Content control.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Wow, so it really happened. Kinda feel bad for the guy.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Darn that horse armor. People are too willing to give up the money.

picture-of-durango-xbox-with-gold-horse-armor-photoshoped-on-top-of-it.jpg

 

[itsgreen]

Someone explain to me why they want to make it "always online".

DRM, usage stats

But it does offer them and the consumers added value:
The ability to count on it as a dev/MS
Richer Kinect experience on every box, much like Siri/Google it knows it can phone home to understand what you are saying

That said, it's a fucking stupid idea. Even the best internet connections fail sometimes, and even the best gaming service fails sometimes. Why introduce another crucial variable into the equation when everything was working just fine.

If MS makes it phone-home every month mandatory I'm good, and if they announce that the last firmware they'll release will remove the verification, I'm good.

 

[test_account]

Man, seeing the huge list of the sites who wrote an article on this, i wonder if Microsoft will rethink the decision about having always online on Xbox 720 (if the rumors are true in the first place of course). What reason could Microsoft give to the consumers that shows that always online is a good thing?

 

[pubba]

Come on MS, leak something. Anything to take attention away from this clusterfuck.

Hell, even a controller pic, or an ad mockup.

Feeeeed usssss

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I was part of this thread and was drawn along by it against my better judgement. I naively thought that most people were genuinely concerned with the idea of 'always online' and were genuinely insulted by Adam's comments about a particular section of America, but as this thread grew so did my doubts for its intentions.

I am still interested in the contents of those Tweets and the ramifications of what he said; however, this has now become something more. My life was made a misery at school because of vindictive bullies, so it stings when I see another person on the receiving end of something like this, regardless of whether I respect the man or not.

This has become nothing short of a witch hunt and clearly dozens of posters are now actually 'getting off' on the idea of participating in the downfall of another man. This sickens me to my core and I'm embarrassed at the fact that I trusted my fellow Gaffers.

We're talking about a human being here, not something evil that deserves to be ostracised. I will NOT be part of the bandwagon that finally brings this person down; I will not sit idly by while hundreds of others wait excitedly for the guillotine to drop on someone's career. Yes, he made a mistake but who amongst us hasn't? It's time to leave him alone and let him gather what reputation he has left and salvage some dignity.

If Adam DOE'S eventually lose his job over this, question the morality of feeling oddly satisfied with that outcome. I will feel shame ... I hope some of you do too.

 

[Nibel]

Francis is MAD Xbox 360 ALWAYS ON REQUIREMENT #XBOX

/dead

 

[Mascot]

Lol. I was just putting the finishing touches to a fairly long post for this thread when Windows 7 decided to shut down my laptop totally without warning to install some mandatory updates of intergalactic importance. No chance to save, no five-minute warning. It annoyed the shit out of me, but if I'd have been in the final stages of bidding in an online auction or skyping family overseas I'd have been fucking incandescent with rage. It seems my patience with Microsoft as a corporation keeps getting tested these days, and if half of these Durango rumours are true I'll be ignoring their next-gen console, Forza or no Forza.

 

[Kusano123]

Imagine that happening in the heat of a match.....

Yup always online is pretty bullshit.

 

[Reiko]

Lol. I was just putting the finishing touches to a fairly long post for this thread when Windows 7 decided to shut down my laptop totally without warning to install some mandatory updates of intergalactic importance. No chance to save, no five-minute warning. It annoyed the shit out of me, but if I'd have been in the final stages of bidding in an online auction or skyping family overseas I'd have been fucking incandescent with rage. It seems my patience with Microsoft as a corporation keeps getting tested these days, and if half of these Durango rumours are true I'll be ignoring their next-gen console, Forza or no Forza.

Poor Dan & Turn 10.

This situation is all kinds of fucked at the moment.