Did they get Toys R Us back again? They used to track them, and then they lost them somewhere around 2007/08 around the same time that they added Amazon to their tracking. But I never heard anything about them picking Toys R Us back up again. Maybe I just missed the news?
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NPD May 2012 Sales Results [Up4: Max Payne 3, Dragon's Dogma, Ghost Recon]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Did they get Toys R Us back again? They used to track them, and then they lost them somewhere around 2007/08 around the same time that they added Amazon to their tracking. But I never heard anything about them picking Toys R Us back up again. Maybe I just missed the news?
Petrae
Member
This was the first time that I'd seen such a list as part of the snapshot report, so I'm honestly unsure of the history. My assumption is that the list was released due to the addition of Wal-Mart.
Petrae
Member
I saw nothing on the snapshot data, so it wasn't Top 10 for individual SKUs or for combined sales. Perhaps others with more expanded data can point us in the right direction.
CadetMahoney
Member
If someone told me midway this gen 360 would overtake wii by the time the nextbox comes out I would laugh at them. Now it looks possible/probable.
dsmoke1986
Member
Still decent numbers...I am on the fence with regards to buying one...Just worried it will be a dead system in 2 years.
Oh dear, if Sony really is relying on SW as their strategy this year/holiday to push Vita then that line is gonna stay well below 2m before it reachs the end of that chart.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'm still puzzled as to why people say the 3DS isn't selling well.
Clear
Member
Mujun said:
I find it disappointing, for DD as a title in itself, but also as an indicator of the overall state of the market.
You may well disagree with me, but my issues with the state of gaming as a whole are long-standing and consistent.
There's far, far, too much value placed on visual presentation in the media and fandom, and not enough on the qualities that I believe are genuinely valuable. Graphics are always going to age, but quality gameplay and clever ideas stand up far better in the long-run.
"Graphics whores" have been around gaming from day 1, but in the past this was always considered a bad thing - because its shallow and the absolute definition of philistinism.
In my view what's happened over the past few years is a reversal of this trend, hell, sites like DF and LoT are basically dedicated to extolling the virtues of (in many instances) razor-thin improvements in visual quality.
Sorry to be cynical, but in my opinion this has all happened because the enthusiast press has cottoned on to the fact that you can make a buck quicker by pandering to a largely unsophisticated (young) audience's existing prejudices than by challenging their value system. Think about this the next time you read a review where a game is criticized for not going about doing something the exact same way as the top franchise in its genre.
They service popular trends, and rarely stand against a prevailing market leader, more often defending it against upcoming alternatives - leading to an increasingly polarized situation where only established winners stand a chance in the market.
It's beacause it could do better than this, even much better. With NSMB2, though, it's very possible to see a new monthly trend for the console.
The problem you detail might also be a byproduct of gaming becoming more mainstream. When the average gamer was someone who'd grown up gaming (10+ years ago) then gameplay was key. Long time gamers played games that were almost nothing but their gameplay. I don't think that is the case now. Those gamers still exist but there is also a big chunk of gamers who need for their games to look at least as good as they play.
I'm not actually sure that DD's problem is its graphics. I think it is a bit rough around the edges (not to say that it isn't really fun and deep) and maybe a bit too Japanese to really do killer sales in the West.
Clear
Member
mujun said:
Probably going to sound like an old curmudgeon for saying this, but, the way so much of the mainstream media is about pandering to their audience's worst instincts (reality TV) and being as dumbed-down and anodyne so to reach the widest demographic has a lot to answer for.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
How in the world do you know this? It's already ahead of the pace set by DS and we're now in a world where smartphones and tablets are fully integrated and taking consumer time/money.
Mr. B Natural
Member
If you look at the graph, it's kinda obvious.
The system had a 100 dollar price cut, already shot out its mario kart and another mario game platformer (thus the explosion in the graph). It did all of that and all it's doing is keeping up. The 3DS is not selling well when considering context. Worse, there's only one line in that graph that is already showing signs of flatlining after only 1 year of the system's existence, and it's the dark brown one.
Vita setting new
negative
To be fair 3DS didn't fared much better the first few months (releasing in march + lack of hype hampered the two).
Doubt Vita can achieve the same 3DS erection next holiday though.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
One thing about this discussion involving Dragon's Dogma:
Two 'break out' titles that haven't suffered from rough presentation and being 'too Japanese' have been Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. Aside from actually getting good sales, these games also got generally great acceptance and even recognition of what was good about them from western press.
The thing is, both of those games came with effectively a giant warning sticker on them: "THESE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HARD AND WEIRD. THE STUFF YOU NORMALLY THINK IS BAD IS REALLY THE GOOD BITS."
After reading so many Dragon's Dogma reviews, I came away feeling that the western writers were approaching the game entirely the wrong way due to having the wrong expectations. To be fair, some of this might have been Capcom's own fault. Whether by accident or design, Dragon's Dogma seems (to me) to have been hyped up as a "Skyrim Killer". The game that "proves Japanese companies can beat Bethesda! It's on now!"
But DD has much more in common, in terms of its design sensibilities, storytelling, and basic play experience with a Souls game than a sandbox western RPG like Fallout 3 or The Elder Scrolls. It does borrow a number of things from games like that, but the final product doesn't try to imitate them as much as the reputation that preceded it suggested.
Result: the subtext in a lot of reviews for the game read like "what? THey thought THIS would be better than SKYRIM? LOL! Everything is all wrong!"
It made me think about what might have happened had Namco Bandai gotten the wrong idea in their head to market Dark Souls as a direct competitor to Skyrim last fall - both in critical reception and expectations from the public.
Note that this is not necessarily about the final number given to Dragon's Dogma in scores; it does have rough edges, there are things to criticize within the game. But the image painted by a lot of the press was that the game was mediocre or outright bad because it failed to be just like Skyrim. Which is entirely the wrong way to present it.
Two 'break out' titles that haven't suffered from rough presentation and being 'too Japanese' have been Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. Aside from actually getting good sales, these games also got generally great acceptance and even recognition of what was good about them from western press.
The thing is, both of those games came with effectively a giant warning sticker on them: "THESE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HARD AND WEIRD. THE STUFF YOU NORMALLY THINK IS BAD IS REALLY THE GOOD BITS."
After reading so many Dragon's Dogma reviews, I came away feeling that the western writers were approaching the game entirely the wrong way due to having the wrong expectations. To be fair, some of this might have been Capcom's own fault. Whether by accident or design, Dragon's Dogma seems (to me) to have been hyped up as a "Skyrim Killer". The game that "proves Japanese companies can beat Bethesda! It's on now!"
But DD has much more in common, in terms of its design sensibilities, storytelling, and basic play experience with a Souls game than a sandbox western RPG like Fallout 3 or The Elder Scrolls. It does borrow a number of things from games like that, but the final product doesn't try to imitate them as much as the reputation that preceded it suggested.
Result: the subtext in a lot of reviews for the game read like "what? THey thought THIS would be better than SKYRIM? LOL! Everything is all wrong!"
It made me think about what might have happened had Namco Bandai gotten the wrong idea in their head to market Dark Souls as a direct competitor to Skyrim last fall - both in critical reception and expectations from the public.
Note that this is not necessarily about the final number given to Dragon's Dogma in scores; it does have rough edges, there are things to criticize within the game. But the image painted by a lot of the press was that the game was mediocre or outright bad because it failed to be just like Skyrim. Which is entirely the wrong way to present it.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Dead Space (2008)
Dead Space 2
Dead Space 3 (soon to be, 2013)
Dead Space Extraction (Wii + PS3)
Dead Space Ignition
Dead Space iOS
That will be 6 titles in a short amount of time, I'm just saying
Some aren't full franchise titles but they should be mentioned
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Are you completely ignoring the fact that the DS had already had two holiday seasons by now?
Plus, I'm not sure I follow your "flatlining" statement. It and PSP are at the same slope. It and DS are also at the same slope.
DS at this point was cheaper and had "already shot out its mario kart and another mario game platformer".
mugurumakensei
Member
And been through two holiday seasons.
electroplankton
Banned
And had a lower price since the beginning.
I have a column up today on the latest results. I don't think there's anything earth-shattering, but perhaps y'all would still want to take a look.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...e_for_shortterm_US_game_retail_turnaround.php
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...e_for_shortterm_US_game_retail_turnaround.php
I have a column up today on the latest results. I don't think there's anything earth-shattering, but perhaps y'all would still want to take a look.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...e_for_shortterm_US_game_retail_turnaround.php
Great work man, could you let me know what rough PS2 figures you have?
Rounded would be 110K and 40K. You will have to take those as my estimates, as they are not and cannot be official.
Late PS1 into PS2 era, so 1999-2005. This was the time of the true ascendance of consoles, and a huge portion of the losses this generation have come from the slow erosion of that console dominance as PCs have flourished again, iOS has taken off, DS/PSP created by far the biggest handheld generation of all time, and so forth.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I think it's fair to say that 3D Land isn't going to have the same legs and impact as NSMB. Nintendo could establish a higher baseline for 3DS with NSMB2, PMSS, and KH3D coming out, but it's headed to some pretty disappointing numbers in America and Europe compared to its predecessor since Nintendo doesn't seem to be making any casual stuff for the platform.
Horsemama1956
Member
It never was dead or dying, just shrinking. It was harder for some to get games with a shrinking retail space, but most that built their own systems locally could buy games from those shops. Valve obviously capitalized on that though, and here we are.
Atleast in the late 90's early 2000's we got proper console ports, instead of most of the shit they released before where it was barely the same game. Emulation became huge at that time as well so many people were playing games they missed on consoles/arcade(albeit for free).
People were also glued to only a few titles back then(UT, Quake, Counter-Strike, Starcraft/Warcraft, etc) so anything that did make retail was ignored for the most part. People still do that now, but it's so easy to find cheap games now people can work more stuff into their playlists.
Having Glide, D3D and OpenGL didn't help either.
Of course it won't, it's not a 2D Mario.
I have a column up today on the latest results. I don't think there's anything earth-shattering, but perhaps y'all would still want to take a look.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...e_for_shortterm_US_game_retail_turnaround.php
Nice column
You have hardware estimates for this month?
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
jvm, did you ever verify if DS sold > 100k?
Graphics Horse
Member
I think he was talking about Mario 64 DS, as NSMB wasn't out yet in the months on that graph.
BishopLamont
Banned
lol, no.
There's still a massive gap between them, and its not like the Wii drops and the 360 is remaining static, its also dropping.
kingkaiser
Member
It's kinda funny that in this era the possibly best PC games ever were released. Games like:
Thief: The Dark Project - 1999
System Shock 2 1999
Planescape: Torment 1999
Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun - 1999
Deus EX 2000
Baldurs Gate 2 2000
Diablo 2 2000
Max Payne 2001
Morrowind 2002
Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast - 2002
If you delve into it, yes it is probable/possible. 360 will still have a decent/substantial holiday remember, Wii will be all but dead.
I don't really fault gamers or game reviewers for not giving DD more attention. Dragon's Dogma has a giant world full of nothing and it makes you run around it constantly. There are also few enemies to populate the world. I do like the battle system and job classes, the pawn system is fun even if it diminishes any semblance of "character", and i'm okay with the loot even though it's not very special. Kind of reminds me of demon's souls in the sense that getting "more powerful" weapons is fun.
On the downside again though is the story, much like Demon's/Dark Souls there's a thin overall story and then some chunks here and there, but nothing special. DD needed a lot better world design with more unique environments and architecture
The only thing that bugs me is a game like Skyrim gets so much hype and love when it's even more generic, has a terrible story, has terrible combat, etc etc etc. In THAT regard, DD deserves to sell more because a crappier game did so well.
On the downside again though is the story, much like Demon's/Dark Souls there's a thin overall story and then some chunks here and there, but nothing special. DD needed a lot better world design with more unique environments and architecture
The only thing that bugs me is a game like Skyrim gets so much hype and love when it's even more generic, has a terrible story, has terrible combat, etc etc etc. In THAT regard, DD deserves to sell more because a crappier game did so well.
BishopLamont
Banned
You think the holiday will close the gap? Whats 360's best holiday and do you think it'll do anything close to it? The Wii-U is launching in a few months and its still doing near half of 360's monthly rate, you're not going to close any gap by nibbling at a snails pace. The 360 is not the PS2, its not gonna keep doing big numbers for years on end, and thats what it needs to close the gap.
All but dead is a big exaggeration, the Wii is cheap, people will still buy it, its not like the numbers are gonna drop to 0 in the next month. The 360 already plummeted hugely this month, what do you think will happen as we get closer to Durango's release?
If the Wii-U wasn't released this year and Nintendo let this generation go on for another year or two then sure the 360 might have had the chance, but next-gen is already on its way, people are already bored of this generation.
well according to the numbers posted earlier, there is a 5,335,000 difference.
Wii: 39.460M
360: 34.125M
PS3: 21.170m
if we drop wii units sold monthly down to 0 moving forward, that means 360 must sell
444,583 units per month for 12 months
222,291 units per month for 24 months.
160,000 units per month for 33 months,
I guess you're thinking of that last one, where it'll match up around 2015
i think the successor will bite into that quite a bit, and of course the wii will likely continue to sell until nintendo pulls the plug.
walking fiend
Member
StarCraft
WarCraft III
Grim Fandandgo
The Longest Journey
Syberia
Quake 3
Unreal Tournament
etc.
However, what which is in common with these games, is that they are games made almost during transition from PS1 to PS2; in most of PS1 era and Post 2001 for PS2, I would say better games were on consoles.
BishopLamont
Banned
Even posting 160k per month for 33 months is being optimistic, its already doing that now and its not gonna get any better as next-gen nears.
I mean the PS2 enjoyed good sales for years because its the undisputed leader of last-gen, this gen you have the Wii capturing the motion/casual market and being the market leader, while the 360 has only experienced good sales near the end of this generation and it has to share its market with the PS3. So to compare it to the PS2 it has 1/3 the staying power of it. Not to mention the competition from next-gen and the competition from smartphone gaming gaining ground as time goes by, which the PS2 did not have to compete with. The 360 experienced its own "fad" near the end of this generation due to the abysmal support for the Wii and Kinect and its not gonna last long. Launching at a high price also means its sales aren't going to be as frontloaded as the Wii's market-friendly price, changing the usual console's life cycle, but by the time the 360 gets there, next-gen will be in full force. If 360 wanted any chance of surpassing the Wii, it needed that price cut a year or two ago, not doing so gave the Wii too many sales and also gave the PS3 a chance to become a viable competitor, also eating into its pie.
I think Nintendo is making the successor to Brain Age (Demon Training), and that should do pretty well. It doesn't give people a real reason to buy the 3DS instead of just keeping their DS, but it should sell well, and it is a casual game.
Nintendo is really counting on the power of 2D Mario to sell systems right now.
As a side note, not referring to you, but speaking generally - it bothers me when people act like NSMB and 3D Marios are the same series/experience. They're completely different in sales potential, consumer interest, and gameplay.
The best holiday was the last one 3.4m~ Up 200k YoY, Wii was 1.9m~ down 1.7m YoY.
The rate at which it outsells the Wii in the non holiday months doesn't matter, but just to prove a point.
Jan - May 11 - 360 outsold Wii by 440k~
Jan - May 12 - 360 has outsold Wii by 740k~
Despite the slump this year, it's increased the rate it's outselling Wii.
It's also interesting you note it isn't the PS2. It's already doing better than the PS2 in the same timeframe, vastly so.
Wii is in danger of a few sub 50k months coming up. WiiU will cannibalize Wii sales more than 360/PS3, which are far more appealing with games still releasing and effectful price cuts left in them. We've already seen a $99 Wii on BF can't even outsell the PS3 anymore.
Most of the gap will be closed before Durango's release. Fact of the matter is though, 360 is the top selling console month in month out, and the baseline price hasn't been slashed since 08. Since then PS3 has had 2 price cuts, Wii has had 2/3 price cuts? I'm losing count.
Nodody can call into the effect of a 360 price cut, all we've seen is MS create $149 on BF bundles (and them fly off the shelves at a huge rate).
I never go by monthly averages because it just doesn't work like that. MS just need to give a good price cut to the 360 this holiday and it'll cut into Wii sales massively.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Price drop was kind of a game changer. Lined up with a great Holiday software lineup.
Sure, but it's a huge sequel that's been desired for over a decade.
BishopLamont
Banned
Price cut at a time where new software to attract new crowds is not gonna do much for the 360, it'll be a minor bump, compared to say a year or two ago if another price cut was introduced where new software was still coming out. What the Wii does won't matter, its on 360's shoulders to keep up the pace to close the gap, and with the next-gen starting this year, I just don't see the 360 capable of doing that.
You're foolish to think the Wii-U will canabilize Wii's sales more than the 360/PS3's, I think it'll do the exact opposite. Nintendo knows that huge mainstream craze with the Wii doesn't happen often so they'll do all they can do capture the 360/PS3's core audience, just like the 3DS has captured the PSP's core audience since Nintendo can't rely on casual products that appeared on the DS to carry the system. The PSP also experienced a short-term leadership in Japan similiar to the 360's rise and look at the numbers its doing now. Launching early gives Nintendo a great deal of flexibility and I don't see them not taking full advantage of it after what they've done in Japan. Getting multi-platform support from western third parties is easier than you think. E3 has not shown us the full picture, I expect to see huge progression towards third parties in the near future.
Look at how the PS2 dominated last gen, yet third parties started next-gen on the 360 and they've never looked back, that doesn't mean the PS3 lost all the support, but it sure gave the 360 a head-start that eventually made it into a solid competitor in the end. Likewise the Wii-U will be third parties lead foray into the next generation. If Activision is willing to port MW to the Wii, you can bet they'll give the Wii-U multiplatform versions of other games too. Wii-U will be the start of 360's down fall.
I'm not foolish at all, you havn't provided any numbers or historical evidence to back up your argument, it just screams what you want to happen and nothing will change your mind.
Like I already said, MS did a $149 bundle last BF and it had its best ever sales by a huge mile, with no new SW, 860,000 units in a week. Explain?
You talk about Nintendo trying to capture 360/PS3's core audience. I disagree that it can do that to any great number but even so, a person buying a PS3/360 in their 7th/8th year are clearly not 'core buyers' are they. Besides, casuals rule the holidays, and 360 has the momentum.
You can't even use the PS2/360 last gen comparison, WiiU isn't getting new third party games incapable of working on 360/PS3, in fact it's getting year old ports that don't look any better. Exactly how is this going to entice people? MW on WiiU, will do nothing to shift sales ... the online will be inferior and even if the graphics are better, COD isn't fueled by graphics at all.
No core will be buying COD and playing it with that tablet .. if you believe that then let me know now because I'm wasting my time replying to you.
What do you mean no new software? I remember new games coming out in Nov 2011. Big games too I think. I feel like I've misunderstood you.
BishopLamont
Banned
If Nintendo launches the Wii-U at a market friendly price, the casual buyers will choose it over the 360, no not all of them, but enough to put a dent into 360's sales. The holidays does belong to the casuals but at that time of the year its the gifting season where price isn't as much of a factor as the shininess of a new toy, Nintendo first party + third party on one machine is more compelling than a console with just third party.
Numbers have been provided, maybe not by me, but by others, you are the one choosing to dismiss them. I have also provided historical evidence, once again you're either ignoring them or not agreeing and I don't force you to, just as I'm able to disagree yours.
Just as the Wii lost its leadership due to a drop in support, the 360 will also experience a drop in support due to next-gen. Compare the 360's 2011 games to 2012 and you'll see a stark difference, this you can not deny. New software drives consoles much more than its back catalog, otherwise you'd see Wii's sales greater than it is.
The support will only get better, this is not the Wii where its underpowered to the point it cant share multiplats with other consoles. No I don't believe people will be buying the Wii-U solely for COD, but they will for Nintendo's first party and COD is the icing on the cake thats gonna tip them towards it. I'm not even saying the Wii-U will steal all of the 360's sales right out of the gate, but it will have a big effect on it as the months go by.
Its funny you mention BF3, COD was out last year and yes its out this year too, but where's the equivalent of BF3 this year?
I'm assuming he meant no new IP, yeah there were big games last holiday, and there are huge ones this year too.