• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NPD November 2011 Sales Results [Update 7: Skyrim, CoD Wii, PC Retail Sales Up 57%]

guek

Banned
Really it won the generation? Doesn't look like it. Sold the most, made the most money? Cool for Nintendo. Does it look like Wii is a gateway drug to 360 and PS3 and not exactly Wii U? Looks like it to me. I don't see much confidence in the Nintendo corner going in next generation.

How in the world can you make such a definitive statement about a future that has yet to transpire?

Could it be that you'd rather current Wii owners migrated to the current HD twins instead of the wii's successor? Now why in the world might you prefer that? Hmm...
 
I'm thinking by the end of the year we may get an announcement from Microsoft saying they have overtaken the Wii as the top seller of software in the US.

If they don't do it by the end of the year then I would say the latest time would be E3. Can picture the smirk on Mattrick's face as he makes that announcement.
 
I just don't understand why gamers feel so threatened by Nintendo. It's pretty amusing.

Of all the gaming companies they are the ones that have to fight the most to survive from one generation to the next. It's like they personally offend some people just by existing and refusing to go down.
 
Iwata is human and makes mistakes. He assumed that the 3DS would carry with the DS's momentum, and it didn't. It probably would have missed the target even if it had launched at the current price.

Yup, he messed up. But I don't think his prediction was bad, I think he dropped the ball on managing Nintendo's software output. Where were the games targeted at non-gamers? Where was NSMB2? My problem with Nintendo right now is that they've veered away from what made them successful in 2006/2007. At that time, their focus was on the "blue ocean" - bringing in people who weren't playing video games. That's a huge market with a massive potential for growth, hence the outrageous sales of the DS and Wii. But in the last few years, they cut off software support for the Wii, killing it prematurely (non-gamers don't care if the tech is old), and they've veered towards the "red ocean" - customers that are already part of the market. The results of that strategy speak for themselves. Nintendo isn't crashing right now, but they can only be successful in such a competitive market when they focus on growing the market. They're not going to win by fighting for a share of Microsoft or Sony's market.

And sorry. I just hate that "it's selling well but that doesn't matter because they cut the price!" argument. I think it's a poor argument,

I think the 3DS is selling well, but that it is not selling at the pace Nintendo hardware should be selling. They crafted an unbelievably successful strategy at the beginning of this gen and there's no excuse for not following through on it. As for the price cut, it merely shows that the demand curve for the 3DS is radically different than what Nintendo anticipated. Nintendo thought they could move 16 million units at a premium price. At half that price, it should be dominating. Does that mean that sales are bad? No. It means that sales are underperforming.

To use an example from a different medium, Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album is the best selling album of all time. Every album he released after that sold millions, but they all underperformed relative to Thriller. We might conclude that that is inevitable considering Thriller's record breaking sales, but the facts still stand. In Nintendo's case, I think they could have maintained the sales momentum they had at with the DS and Wii, so I'm critical of their performance.

just like you think that it outselling the DS's first year in 8 months is a poor argument. (And I disagree with that, since if you add more context to that, mainly that it did it without a December and, as a result, is on-track to nearly double the DS's first year.)

There are a couple of problems with looking at DS's first year. The first, and most important is that Nintendo did not have what we now consider the DS/Wii software strategy in place. Nintendogs and Brain Age weren't ready at launch (the latter took time to find its audience), and NSMB did not come out until 2006. The DS was also competing with the GBA, which was massively popular, and the PSP, which had a strong launch. Nintendo marketed the DS as a "third piller", not as the successor to the handheld line. On top of all that, the DS was also a rushed, mediocre piece of hardware when it launched. There's no reason that the 3DS would have any trouble matching the DS's first year sales.

Getting back to my first point, Nintendo consoles that launched with a winning software strategy had no trouble selling well. The Wii exploded out of the gate selling to the same type of customer the DS sold to. I'm not saying we should compare home console sales directly to handheld sales, but if we look at momentum, there's no reason why a new Nintendo console aught to have a sluggish launch. Nintendo simply did not bring the games the expanded audience wanted, and now they are struggling to recover.

The 3DS's issue has always been games first. Nintendo cut the price because demand was too low and games can't pop out of thin air. That doesn't negate the fact that it's selling well. The games and price cut came too late to save it from falling short of the target. It's that simple.

I agree.
 

Derrick01

Banned
I just don't understand why gamers feel so threatened by Nintendo. It's pretty amusing.

Of all the gaming companies they are the ones that have to fight the most to survive from one generation to the next. It's like they personally offend some people just by existing and refusing to go down.

I'm worried what would happen if they ever figure out that whole 3rd party issue. I mean their system could be the strongest in power but if everyone flocked to a system with 1st party games I don't want and a poor online system (or worse, one run by EA *gulp*) gaming would suck.
 

kswiston

Member
Of all the gaming companies they are the ones that have to fight the most to survive from one generation to the next.

It's not hard to survive when you publish most of the best selling games in every generation, almost never sell anything at a loss, and have over 2/3rds of the handheld market. Sony and Microsoft are bigger companies, but they are more likely to pull out of the gaming market than Nintendo in the near future.
 

Jomjom

Banned
I just don't understand why gamers feel so threatened by Nintendo. It's pretty amusing.

Of all the gaming companies they are the ones that have to fight the most to survive from one generation to the next. It's like they personally offend some people just by existing and refusing to go down.

They've never NOT made profit for any console. How are they the ones that have to fight the most to survive? MS almost backed out of the gaming business after the original Xbox. Sony is in that same position now with the PS3. Even the 360 was losing money for a long time.

Also Sony better hope this exclusive that Keighley is teasing is a system seller. Being outsold by almost a million by the direct competition in one month is bad news for the PS3. Sony's slowly but surely losing the Euro market and Japan seems to be slowly ditching home consoles.

Microsoft... just wow! It's hard to imagine the next Xbox doing anything but steamrolling all of the competition. I don't see MS making the mistakes Sony did transitioning from the PS2 to the PS3.
 

P90

Member
Just looking at hardware numbers, I think all three manufacturers have to be pretty happy with November sales when taken in full context: life cycle of the home consoles, iOS and Android eating away at portable market, etc.
 

Acheron

Banned
Posted earlier, but worth repeating:

Haven't we seen enough NPDs to know that twice as long on the market doesn't mean anywhere near twice the sales? Games that get 3 days of sales in an NPD period for their first month MAY get close to their first month sales again in the entirety of their second month. The only exception (for non-casual HD sequels) is if the second month happens to be a December.

Arkham City only had 10-11 days in last month's NPD when it sold ~1.5M. This month, even though it had 28 days plus Black Friday, it didn't even do half of that number.

Can we stop with the "x days" crap. Core titles are extremely front-loaded. If the first five days aren't good, the next 15 certainly will be far worse.
 
It's not hard to survive when you publish most of the best selling games in every generation, almost never sell anything at a loss, and have over 2/3rds of the handheld market. Sony and Microsoft are bigger companies, but they are more likely to pull out of the gaming market than Nintendo in the near future.


They've never NOT made profit for any console. How are they the ones that have to fight the most to survive? MS almost backed out of the gaming business after the original Xbox. Sony is in that same position now with the PS3. Even the 360 was losing money for a long time.

I think there was a slight missing of the point here. The idea is that gaming is all Nintendo has, so they scrap and claw for their success. Sony and Microsoft could fail at gaming and just go back to their core businesses.

His point being that since Nintendo has everything to lose, comparatively speaking, they work harder for your entertainment and should be respected instead of ridiculed.
 

Levyne

Banned
Can we stop with the "x days" crap. Core titles are extremely front-loaded. If the first five days aren't good, the next 15 certainly will be far worse.

So...you're agreeing with the guy you're quoting? (Unless I'm terribly misreading something.)

But yeah, Nintendo titles tend to have much better legs than many others (at least Mario/Mario Kart)
 

Jomjom

Banned
I think there was a slight missing of the point here. The idea is that gaming is all Nintendo has, so they scrap and claw for their success. Sony and Microsoft could fail at gaming and just go back to their core business.

His point being that since Nintendo has everything to lose, comparatively speaking, they work harder for your entertainment and should be respected instead of ridiculed.

I think your point is true for MS as their core business will always thrive. But this is not true at all of Sony. Their core business could be said to be gaming because most if not all of their other sectors are hemorrhaging extremely badly. The Sony of the past was THE electronics company, but that is no longer true in the public mind. There's a reason Howard Stringer is about to commit corporate sepukku.
 

jman2050

Member
I think your point is true for MS as their core business will always thrive. But this is not true at all of Sony. Their core business could be said to gaming because most if not all of their other sectors are hemorrhaging extremely badly. The Sony of the past was THE electronics company, but that is no longer true in the public mind. There's a reason Howard Stringer is about to commit corporate sepukku.

Sony is an interesting case because, as far as I can tell, they really don't have much wiggle room to risk anything. Not after the PS3 disaster + the money lost in all their other divisions.

None of the three companies are backing out of games any time soon, but for worst-case-scenario I'd imagine Sony would be the first to pull the plug.
 

Jomjom

Banned
Sony is an interesting case because, as far as I can tell, they really don't have much wiggle room to risk anything. Not after the PS3 disaster + the money lost in all their other divisions.

None of the three companies are backing out of games any time soon, but for worst-case-scenario I'd imagine Sony would be the first to pull the plug.

Totally agree with everything you said. If nothing changes in the next say 5-10 years, I could see Sony getting bought out or going bankrupt, not just pulling out from gaming. I honestly don't know a single sector where Sony is doing well. The robotic dog sector perhaps?
 

Levyne

Banned
That's not true. People only started realizing what was going on when the DS exploded well into 2005.

Maybe, but with the fact that it could play GBA games...it was hard to convince poor teenage myself that it wasn't going to be the next thing and my GBA wasn't obsolete.
 

Levyne

Banned
Totally agree with everything you said. If nothing changes in the next say 5-10 years, I could see Sony getting bought out or going bankrupt, not just pulling out from gaming. I honestly don't know a single sector where Sony is doing well. The robotic dog sector perhaps?

There was that thread about Sony's insurance/legal division (or something) making tons of money for the company, I don't know the specfics though.
 
Totally agree with everything you said. If nothing changes in the next say 5-10 years, I could see Sony getting bought out or going bankrupt, not just pulling out from gaming. I honestly don't know a single sector where Sony is doing well. The robotic dog sector perhaps?

They've been a life insurance company since 05.
 

jax (old)

Banned
ps3 version for skyrim should be 0. everyone should return their copies from what I read about it.

+

UC3 talk:
02. Gears of War 3 (360)** Microsoft (Corp) - Over 2 Million

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448456

I'd say: comparatively.

no Blackfriday. etc. UC3 = bomba.

pretty disappointing all things considering. GOTY followup; black friday sales... etc. I wonder where/how they went amiss with their marketing. The subway demo? The beta?

Maybe they shouldn't have launched in Novemeber. The 1/11/11 date means they had the full calender month. Gears 3 effectively tripled its sales.
 

Derrick01

Banned
ps3 version for skyrim should be 0. everyone should return their copies from what I read about it.

+

UC3 talk:


pretty disappointing all things considering. GOTY followup; black friday sales... etc. I wonder where/how they went amiss with their marketing. The subway demo? The beta?

Maybe they shouldn't have launched in Novemeber. The 1/11/11 date means they had the full calender month. Gears 3 effectively tripled its sales.

Sooner or later the gaming community is going to have to accept that Uncharted just isn't as big of a franchise as they want it to be. It's not going to sell 2-3 million on day 1 like a Gears or other franchises do. It sells well over time but after price cuts.
 

jman2050

Member
ps3 version for skyrim should be 0. everyone should return their copies from what I read about it.

+

UC3 talk:


pretty disappointing all things considering. GOTY followup; black friday sales... etc. I wonder where/how they went amiss with their marketing. The subway demo? The beta?

Maybe they shouldn't have launched in Novemeber. The 1/11/11 date means they had the full calender month. Gears 3 effectively tripled its sales.

Uncharted has its core fanbase already. It's never going to get much bigger than it already is, marketing be damned.
 

okenny

Banned
Does anyone remember back in early 2010 when the 360 would be beaten by the PS3, Microsoft would always say they were supply constrained. I believe this was around or before the time the slim got introduced. Given it's performance over the last 18 months, is it safe now to say that MS wasn't full of shit?
 

GavinGT

Banned
Does anyone remember back in early 2010 when the 360 would be beaten by the PS3, Microsoft would always say they were supply constrained. I believe this was around or before the time the slim got introduced. Given it's performance over the last 18 months, is it safe now to say that MS wasn't full of shit?

I'm compelled to believe the "supply constrained" line when a company actually has a reason to constrain supply. If they're introducing a new model and they want to get the old stuff off the shelves, sure. But when they say it seemingly just to excuse weak sales numbers, that's when I call bullshit.
 

Goldmund

Member
Does anyone remember back in early 2010 when the 360 would be beaten by the PS3, Microsoft would always say they were supply constrained. I believe this was around or before the time the slim got introduced. Given it's performance over the last 18 months, is it safe now to say that MS wasn't full of shit?
It's never safe to say big companies aren't full of shit.
 

okenny

Banned
I'm compelled to believe the "supply constrained" line when a company actually has a reason to constrain supply. If they're introducing a new model and they want to get the old stuff off the shelves, sure. But when they say it seemingly just to excuse weak sales numbers, that's when I call bullshit.

So which do you think it was?
  • Bullshit
  • Somali Pirates holding Xboxes hostage? (the south winds were strong and unwieldy)
  • Actually supply constrained potentially because of the reason you listed (my memory on Slim announcement versus the months leading up to are sketchy)?
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
Really it won the generation? Doesn't look like it. Sold the most, made the most money? Cool for Nintendo. Does it look like Wii is a gateway drug to 360 and PS3 and not exactly Wii U? Looks like it to me. I don't see much confidence in the Nintendo corner going in next generation.

So the measure of whether you won the current gen or not is whether or not you win the next gen?

Props to the Gamecube for showing the PS2 who's boss last gen, then.
 
Figs in your rectum? Good day sir

I'll take it where I can get it.

I will never understand why it always has to be zero sum to some of you guys. No layers.

It's always Nintendo/Sony/MS are the winners/losers/fucknuggets.

The closest thing to truth I can see coming out of this generation is that Nintendo made more money, sold more consoles, and shit on all that goodwill. MS picked up the slack, and is in a pretty damn good position going forward. Sony is in a completely precarious position going into next gen.

I struggle to see where their position in the market is. And that makes them the one to watch. I can see how Nintendo wants to position themselves, I can see where MS is going to end up.

Sony, the one time owner of both casual and hardcore, relinquished control of both.

I had a point here... oh yeah!

Just stop being fucknuggets okay assholes?
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
I'm really surprised that MS didn't push Halo HD Anniversary at all. As popular as the series is and now that GeOW3 has run its initial course, they don't have another 1st party game to push other than Forza.
Seems like there are enough casual FPS fans that would buy this if they new it existed.
 

GavinGT

Banned
So which do you think it was?
  • Bullshit
  • Somali Pirates holding Xboxes hostage? (the south winds were strong and unwieldy)
  • Actually supply constrained potentially because of the reason you listed (my memory on Slim announcement versus the months leading up to are sketchy)?

They knew that, once they announced the Slim, the perceived value of the Phat models would drop. I'm pretty sure they just wanted to sell all the remaining Phats before announcing the Slim model.

And since Microsoft has a habit of flooding the channels during the holidays to meet their yearly sell-through estimates, they probably had a ton of systems still floating around that they had to burn through. And, naturally, some stores would have piles of remaining systems, while others would be sold out for months. Thus, supply constrained.

I'll admit, that's like 6 months without shipping any new consoles, so maybe I'm off base about the channel stuffing in 2010. But that wouldn't invalidate my earlier point.
 

jman2050

Member
I'll take it where I can get it.

I will never understand why it always has to be zero sum to some of you guys. No layers.

It's always Nintendo/Sony/MS are the winners/losers/fucknuggets.

The closest thing to truth I can see coming out of this generation is that Nintendo made more money, sold more consoles, and shit on all that goodwill. MS picked up the slack, and is in a pretty damn good position going forward. Sony is in a completely precarious position going into next gen.

I struggle to see where their position in the market is. And that makes them the one to watch. I can see how Nintendo wants to position themselves, I can see where MS is going to end up.

Sony, the one time owner of both casual and hardcore, relinquished control of both.

I had a point here... oh yeah!

Just stop being fucknuggets okay assholes?

I think short-term Sony is riding everything on Vita. I definitely don't think that's the right way to go at all, especially since they're apparently trying to take on both Nintendo AND Apple head-on, but who knows, if it succeeds, then their overall position improves substantially.
 
The Wii has had a very interesting life-cycle.

- In 2005, if you told people here that the Wii would become the fastest selling console of all time worldwide, you would have been laughed at.

- In 2008, if you told people here that the Wii would fail to beat the PS2's LTD despite a gigantic lead, you would have been laughed at.

Has any business ever made that kind of come back, and then blown it so spectacularly?

Yes, it's in decline.

- after a longer life cycle than any of their consoles since the NES
- after making more profit than Microsoft or Sony will make this generation combined.

Calling it a "fad" is a joke. Nintendo's plan was for a 5 year lifecycle for the platform. It's been 5 years exactly now, and it still sold 850k. It's successor is coming out in less than a year.

If there were ever to be a "winner" this generation it would clearly be Nintendo.

Good post. The real question is why the hell Nintendo decided on a five year cycle at all. At the beginning of the gen they told us that graphics didn't matter, that customer demand for improved hardware had reached a saturation point, that accessibility would drive success from then on - and they were right. If that's the case, why would they need to upgrade the Wii? With a steady flow of best selling games, Wii could have sold strongly for 7 years or more. We've seen it happen in the past, and it's really ironic that the Xbox 360 might be the only console that accomplishes that goal this gen. Nintendo's expanded audience doesn't need a new console every five years, and neither do core gamers judging by 360 sales this year. Nintendo really blundered by cutting off Wii software development IMO.
 
I think short-term Sony is riding everything on Vita. I definitely don't think that's the right way to go at all, especially since they're apparently trying to take on both Nintendo AND Apple head-on, but who knows, if it succeeds, then their overall position improves substantially.
That is a damn risky gamble... and I don't see it in the systems design. Being truthful it should be really easy to dev for, easy to get costs down quickly, almost a Nintendo GCN era design. I mean that with lots of love.

This is why I'm at a loss. I see the Vita being the "safe" system for them. The one that won't kill them if it fails to take off. The PS3 was a huge risk in hindsight.
 

okenny

Banned
I'll take it where I can get it.

I will never understand why it always has to be zero sum to some of you guys. No layers.

It's always Nintendo/Sony/MS are the winners/losers/fucknuggets.

The closest thing to truth I can see coming out of this generation is that Nintendo made more money, sold more consoles, and shit on all that goodwill. MS picked up the slack, and is in a pretty damn good position going forward. Sony is in a completely precarious position going into next gen.

I struggle to see where their position in the market is. And that makes them the one to watch. I can see how Nintendo wants to position themselves, I can see where MS is going to end up.

Sony, the one time owner of both casual and hardcore, relinquished control of both.

I had a point here... oh yeah!

Just stop being fucknuggets okay assholes?

But neither Sony nor Nintendo has stolen the Christmas money from the mouth of the blind babies of homeless Indie game developers in that RACIST NAZI cast-system ad-driven septic whore hole they call a marketplace.

However I do believe that all three companies are in stable-enough financial positions to make a challenging push for next gen with Sony certainly being in the most vulnerable position.
 

Somnid

Member
I think short-term Sony is riding everything on Vita. I definitely don't think that's the right way to go at all, especially since they're apparently trying to take on both Nintendo AND Apple head-on, but who knows, if it succeeds, then their overall position improves substantially.

If 3DS had to struggle with the market it's unlikely Sony will get a free pass. Due to circumstantial misfortune and lack of real visionary leadership they will be lucky if they survive next-gen without being bought-out.
 

maeda

Member
Good post. The real question is why the hell Nintendo decided on a five year cycle at all. At the beginning of the gen they told us that graphics didn't matter, that customer demand for improved hardware had reached a saturation point, that accessibility would drive success from then on - and they were right. If that's the case, why would they need to upgrade the Wii? With a steady flow of best selling games, Wii could have sold strongly for 7 years or more. We've seen it happen in the past, and it's really ironic that the Xbox 360 might be the only console that accomplishes that goal this gen. Nintendo's expanded audience doesn't need a new console every five years, and neither do core gamers judging by 360 sales this year. Nintendo really blundered by cutting off Wii software development IMO.
Because they need 3rd party. And 3rd party detested and still detest Wii. Nintendo cannot provide a steady steam of software on their own. Wii U is a necessary upgrade.
 

Jomjom

Banned
I think short-term Sony is riding everything on Vita. I definitely don't think that's the right way to go at all, especially since they're apparently trying to take on both Nintendo AND Apple head-on, but who knows, if it succeeds, then their overall position improves substantially.

If Sony is truly riding everything as you say on the Vita, they need to fire their financial advisors right now.

I still will never understand how they didn't spend anything and everything to keep Monster Hunter on the Vita. The Japanese game industry created what, 99.9% of the entire PSP library? I don't know how they expect the Vita to thrive when they aren't even doing everything they can to ensure a healthy userbase in Japan. If the Vita doesn't attract a large userbase in Japan fast, it will die even faster. No Japanese support and for sure no Western support because it's a dedicated gaming handheld and not a phone. Where are they going to get games from, the burgeoning middle eastern game industry?
 

Slurmer

Banned
UC3 talk:


pretty disappointing all things considering. GOTY followup; black friday sales... etc. I wonder where/how they went amiss with their marketing. The subway demo? The beta?

Maybe they shouldn't have launched in Novemeber. The 1/11/11 date means they had the full calender month. Gears 3 effectively tripled its sales.


Your being so surprised by the UC3 numbers confuses me.
 
Top Bottom