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Official Game Developer's Conference 2007 Summary Thread

E

ezekial45

Banned
First day was great. I swung by North Hall and said hello to Ghost. The game is looking cool btw. I got the chance to talk with Cory Barlog. Really cool guy, he even gave me the GoW2 demo (which i didn't have). :D The highlight of the day was meeting Peter Molyneux! The guy is really wise.

Btw, it's a bitch walking back and forth between North and West center.
 
F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Bumpkin said:
"The Wii is a piece of shit." Right.
Click to expand...
Well from a hardware geek's perspective it might as well be.

Though I'm surprised he didn't blast the development software in his rant - that's far more deserving of criticism then the hw itself IMO.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
element said:
Amirox, I am writing on all the sessions I am going to. They aren't great writing by any means, but it is something.

http://shinyidol.spaces.live.com/
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm really interested in these sesssions, to be honest, they're compelling stuff. I'm sure you will help fill in many blanks, so I appreciate the new resource and writings :)
 
M

mysticstylez

Banned
Onix said:
You shouldn't go by what was shown - it was a tech demo.


The same thing was done with Motorstorm at last years GDC.
Click to expand...



Understood, but in the span of almost 2 years (since the infamous E3 trailer), there are impressions that the game is nowhere near that trailer. Impressions that reveal that the game is nowhere close to being done.


That isn't great news at all. Then again people are getting pumped up for a sequel to a game that was a below average FPS with many problems. I don't get the hype anyway.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
i think some people are annoyed at the language. But of course, in the process of being annoyed at that, they forget this was a RANT panel specifically for such types of flowing thoughts. It's not supposed to be eloquent: you're supposed to get something off your shoulders. This was on his mind right now, he's taken Microsoft and Sony to task in the past in similar rants.

The fact that he is right is beside the point, not that the Nintendo legionaries (^^^) would admit it. He's completely right: Nintendo made a piece of shit system (in the terms this guy was discussing), that is completely crippled in terms of delivering the type of next-gen A.I., physics and more that this guy wanted, and so do many others. They may have delivered something that is still fun to a lot of people, but in the process they cut off so much potential it's unreal. And people ignore it, because it's their camp.
 
K

Krowley

Member
I thought the rant was amusing..

Good news is that it sounds like he's working on a wii game... I mean how else could he get so frustrated with the technical limitations?

Wii spore hopefully.

edit// but he's totally wrong about one thing... Very few developers have made more artistic masterpieces than nintendo and very few developers have contributed more to the concept of games as art.
 
Z

ziran

Member
Amir0x said:
i think some people are annoyed at the language. But of course, in the process of being annoyed at that, they forget this was a RANT panel specifically for such types of flowing thoughts. It's not supposed to be eloquent: you're supposed to get something off your shoulders. This was on his mind right now, he's taken Microsoft and Sony to task in the past in similar rants.

The fact that he is right is beside the point, not that the Nintendo legionaries (^^^) would admit it. He's completely right: Nintendo made a piece of shit system (in the terms this guy was discussing), that is completely crippled in terms of delivering the type of next-gen A.I., physics and more that this guy wanted, and so do many others. They may have delivered something that is still fun to a lot of people, but in the process they cut off so much potential it's unreal. And people ignore it, because it's their camp.
Click to expand...
I don't think he's talking shit because I'm exclusively in Nintendo's camp, I did think the GC was pretty crap after all, I think he's talking shit, and ignore it, because what Nintendo's been doing over the last couple of years has been exactly what I want from videogames and Wii is fast becoming my favourite system ever.

This guy is doing the usual bitching and moaning which countless NeoGAF'ers have done countless times. He also doesn't seem to grasp the fact Nintendo planned DS and Wii precisely and if you don't like what they're doing you're not their target audience. If anybody wants what this guy wants there are already 3 platforms out there specifically and exclusively for you, 360, PS3 and PC. If he wants additional motion controls I'm sure they'll be added to everything if Wii continues its amazing sales.

I think it's time for this guy to grow up and move on.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
ziran said:
I don't think he's talking shit because I'm exclusively in Nintendo's camp, I did think the GC was pretty crap after all, I think he's talking shit, and ignore it, because what Nintendo's been doing over the last couple of years has been exactly what I want from videogames and Wii is already my favourite system ever.
Click to expand...

What you want from videogames, and what he wants from videogame are not independent. Nintendo gimped the machine, which could have been so much more for a fact, and that will never be for this generation due to their low standards. They said 'we want this innovative controller, and we'll sell consumers a repackaged Gamecube to make more money.' You could have that controller, and decent power as well. It didn't even have to be quite 360 level, but their hilarious lack of ambition and their fans bumbling devotion to their recent strategies is both pathetic and missing in point.

Because you can have both. But we don't.

And that is precisely where the rant comes from. And that's what this is, a rant. Grown adults are allowed to rant about stupid decisions - that has nothing to do with growing up or acknowledging the industry went a certain way or that games aren't all about you. I buy games for myself, and no one else, and so do you, and so does everyone. They will always be speaking from their specific perspective on what they want out of games. I think this is illustrated perfectly by the fact that Wii, with its hilariously skeletal lineup, is ALREADY your favorite system. Different strokes for different folks. Really different folks.

But that changes nothing, because you could have still had that and Nintendo could have still given the extra power so that we can combine the wiimote technology with the sort of amazing physics, A.I. and other aspects that do contribute and impact gameplay dramatically. Stuff like we just saw with Little Big Planet, an impossibility on Wii. And how ****ing sad is that. All because of a decision Nintendo made, and that their legions swallow wholesale because they just want something different.

Will Wii sell 100 million consoles? Yes. Will Nintendo's decision dramatically impact the games we get on that dominant system? Abso-****ing-lutely. Is that worth ranting about? If you consider "games" your hobby... yup.

ziran said:
This guy is doing the usual bitching and moaning which countless NeoGAF'ers have done countless times. He also doesn't seem to grasp the fact Nintendo planned DS and Wii precisely and if you don't like what they're doing you're not their target audience. If anybody wants what this guy wants there are already 3 platforms out there specifically and exclusively for you, 360, PS3 and PC. If he wants additional motion controls I'm sure they'll be added to everything if Wii continues its amazing sales.

Time to grow up and move on imo.
Click to expand...

You, for all your limp-balled implications, forget the important context here. Wii is about to become the undisputed leader in the market. This is going to impact the games, and what gets developed. And because of Nintendo's decisions, the impact this is going to have on the type of games that get delivered over the next few years is going to be catastrophic. Not to mention that he is developing Spore, which is almost certainly getting a Wii counterpart, so his frustrations with the systems come from a far more legitimate position than you or I will ever have. And don't forget, he ranted on Microsoft and Sony for missing the OTHER part of the equation before. It's not an "either/or" situation, which is what these companies have made it. It's a terrible lack of 'bringing to task' among the fans that is sickening and sad.

PS3 and 360 are an alternative. And thank God there's still two systems out there that do deliver the good shit, at least in part. But delivering the goods and delivering the market success are two different things. And as the market makes the shift to Wii, less and less of those "goods" will fall on PS3 and 360. And what we will get is countless titles that are held back by that aspect of Wii. And while it may be 'pushed forward' in the eyes of some by the controller, there's still the other half that is still a generation behind in several areas that are critical to gameplay. And that will always be an issue, regardless of what you want.
 
D

DreamMachine

Member
Is there going to be more MS, stuff I was at least expecting to see videos of mass effect, too human and forza..

but yet all there is is a few pictures..

Highly dissapointed if nothing else appears..

anyone know anything?
 
Z

ziran

Member
Amir0x said:
What you want from videogames, and what he wants from videogame are not independent. Nintendo gimped the machine, which could have been so much more for a fact, and that will never be for this generation due to their low standards. They said 'we want this innovative controller, and we'll sell consumers a repackaged Gamecube to make more money.' You could have that controller, and decent power as well. It didn't even have to be quite 360 level, but their hilarious lack of ambition and their fans bumbling devotion to their recent strategies is both pathetic and missing in point.

Because you can have both. But we don't.

And that is precisely where the rant comes from. And that's what this is, a rant. Grown adults are allowed to rant about stupid decisions - that has nothing to do with growing up or acknowledging the industry went a certain way or that games aren't all about you. I buy games for myself, and no one else, and so do you, and so does everyone. They will always be speaking from their specific perspective on what they want out of games. I think this is illustrated perfectly by the fact that Wii, with its hilariously skeletal lineup, is ALREADY your favorite system. Different strokes for different folks. Really different folks.

But that changes nothing, because you could have still had that and Nintendo could have still given the extra power so that we can combine the wiimote technology with the sort of amazing physics, A.I. and other aspects that do contribute and impact gameplay dramatically. Stuff like we just saw with Little Big Planet, an impossibility on Wii. And how ****ing sad is that. All because of a decision Nintendo made, and that their legions swallow wholesale because they just want something different.

Will Wii sell 100 million consoles? Yes. Will Nintendo's decision dramatically impact the games we get on that dominant system? Abso-****ing-lutely. Is that worth ranting about? If you consider "games" your hobby... yup.



You, for all your limp-balled implications, forget the important context here. Wii is about to become the undisputed leader in the market. This is going to impact the games, and what gets developed. And because of Nintendo's decisions, the impact this is going to have on the type of games that get delivered over the next few years is going to be catastrophic. Not to mention that he is developing Spore, which is almost certainly getting a Wii counterpart, so his frustrations with the systems come from a far more legitimate position than you or I will ever have. And don't forget, he ranted on Microsoft and Sony for missing the OTHER part of the equation before. It's not an "either/or" situation, which is what these companies have made it. It's a terrible lack of 'bringing to task' among the fans that is sickening and sad.

PS3 and 360 are an alternative. And thank God there's still two systems out there that do deliver the good shit, at least in part. But delivering the goods and delivering the market success are two different things. And as the market makes the shift to Wii, less and less of those "goods" will fall on PS3 and 360. And what we will get is countless titles that are held back by that aspect of Wii. And while it may be 'pushed forward' in the eyes of some by the controller, there's still the other half that is still a generation behind in several areas that are critical to gameplay. And that will always be an issue, regardless of what you want.
Click to expand...
I understand what you're saying, I was feeling the same way last gen, my tastes were going one way while industry went the other, but from Nintendo's point of view I think it was an either or situation.

Either they go head to head with PS3 and 360, which would've killed their home console business because the market for traditional games has declined to such an extent it cannot sustain 3 consoles, or, they risk a completely new kind of controller which changes videogames but uses a low risk architecture. I don't believe more power with a new controller was even an option. There's no way they'd have so many developers jumping on board with games so early, or be able to develop so much internally, the power part of the equation was crucial to their strategy. So, I don't think it was a stupid decision, development costs are critical this gen.

Also, imo, what this guy wants from a videogame is a part of a small audience. You suggest power will hold Wii back, in absolute technical terms you're right, but realistically I don't think it will because most people see videogames as just a bit of fun. Videogames aren't important enough for the masses to say WOW! at Little Big Adventure because of what it lets you do due to all the real time calculations it's managing. In other words what developers are doing with power has a good chance of going largely unnoticed and will only scratch the itch of a some hardcore gamers.

Personally, I can see the potential for more power, and I'm not excluding it, but I really don't know if it would bother me. I love Wii because it's simple, fun gaming, with enough depth to keep me and family/friends playing for ages. Wii Sports has become one of my favourite games ever, because it's brilliant, and everything I want, I don't think more power or better graphics would've made me enjoy the game any more.

I'm open to the possibility of enjoying a game more because of better graphics and more processing power, but from the stuff I've played on PS3 and 360 I've yet to be convinced.
 
C

Captain Glanton

Banned
Amir0x said:
What you want from videogames, and what he wants from videogame are not independent. Nintendo gimped the machine, which could have been so much more for a fact, and that will never be for this generation due to their low standards. They said 'we want this innovative controller, and we'll sell consumers a repackaged Gamecube to make more money.' You could have that controller, and decent power as well. It didn't even have to be quite 360 level, but their hilarious lack of ambition and their fans bumbling devotion to their recent strategies is both pathetic and missing in point.

Because you can have both. But we don't.

And that is precisely where the rant comes from. And that's what this is, a rant. Grown adults are allowed to rant about stupid decisions - that has nothing to do with growing up or acknowledging the industry went a certain way or that games aren't all about you. I buy games for myself, and no one else, and so do you, and so does everyone. They will always be speaking from their specific perspective on what they want out of games. I think this is illustrated perfectly by the fact that Wii, with its hilariously skeletal lineup, is ALREADY your favorite system. Different strokes for different folks. Really different folks.

But that changes nothing, because you could have still had that and Nintendo could have still given the extra power so that we can combine the wiimote technology with the sort of amazing physics, A.I. and other aspects that do contribute and impact gameplay dramatically. Stuff like we just saw with Little Big Planet, an impossibility on Wii. And how ****ing sad is that. All because of a decision Nintendo made, and that their legions swallow wholesale because they just want something different.

Will Wii sell 100 million consoles? Yes. Will Nintendo's decision dramatically impact the games we get on that dominant system? Abso-****ing-lutely. Is that worth ranting about? If you consider "games" your hobby... yup.



You, for all your limp-balled implications, forget the important context here. Wii is about to become the undisputed leader in the market. This is going to impact the games, and what gets developed. And because of Nintendo's decisions, the impact this is going to have on the type of games that get delivered over the next few years is going to be catastrophic. Not to mention that he is developing Spore, which is almost certainly getting a Wii counterpart, so his frustrations with the systems come from a far more legitimate position than you or I will ever have. And don't forget, he ranted on Microsoft and Sony for missing the OTHER part of the equation before. It's not an "either/or" situation, which is what these companies have made it. It's a terrible lack of 'bringing to task' among the fans that is sickening and sad.

PS3 and 360 are an alternative. And thank God there's still two systems out there that do deliver the good shit, at least in part. But delivering the goods and delivering the market success are two different things. And as the market makes the shift to Wii, less and less of those "goods" will fall on PS3 and 360. And what we will get is countless titles that are held back by that aspect of Wii. And while it may be 'pushed forward' in the eyes of some by the controller, there's still the other half that is still a generation behind in several areas that are critical to gameplay. And that will always be an issue, regardless of what you want.
Click to expand...

Thank God other people see this. I agree completely. I love that Nintendo is trying to shake up an industry that relies so much on 'same old, prettier paint.' But they're doing it by attracting an audience that doesn't really care about gaming, and if the gaming industry becomes dominated by consumers who only [stress, only] want to play a game like Wii Sports for an hour a week, then that can be a scary scenario for those of us who do like casual games but are also drooling over news for Mass Effect and Heavenly Sword [to pick two random examples of games a lot of us here would love, but non-gamers would turn away from].

Nintendo wants to innovate? That's great. But if/when the Wii becomes the industry standard, with its old-timey CPU and library of Wariowares, I'm very worried that it's going to become harder and harder to get budget approval for the next Mass Effect or Heavenly Sword.
 
A

Acosta

Member
Either they go head to head with PS3 and 360, which would've killed their home console business because the market for traditional games has declined to such an extent it cannot sustain 3 consoles, or, they risk a completely new kind of controller which changes videogames but uses a low risk architecture
Click to expand...

There is no excuse for Nintendo adopting such a low profile system. They could have their "innovative controls" and made a decent system with a proper CPU and a more capable technology, selling it for the same money they are selling Wii now (with less revenue). Amir0x says, this has the potential for being catastrophic because producers can start thinking they don´t really need to put millions for supporting better technology when they can get the same or more money with "fun" and training games.

Also, imo, what this guy wants from a videogame is a part of a small audience. You suggest power will hold Wii back, in absolute technical terms you're right, but realistically I don't think it will because most people see videogames as just a bit of fun. Videogames aren't important enough for the masses to say WOW! at Little Big Adventure because of what it lets you do due to all the real time calculations it's managing. In other words what developers are doing with power has a good chance of going largely unnoticed and will only scratch the itch of a some hardcore gamers.
Click to expand...

That is so wrong at so many levels. First, is Little Big Planet. Second, videogames can be much more that mere fun-a-tons and I don´t care how many people want that as videogame. How many people have read classics books or listen to the best classic composers? They are a minority, but they still offer more than Tom Clancy books or Britney Spears music (without disrespect for Clancy or Spears). There are a increasing number of people that demand experiences like Shadow of the Colossus, or who want to create their own stuff (I have heard Myspace and Youtube are popular). There are people who want more of videogames or that could be potentially interested on it, and we need better technology for all that.

If you and your family are having the time of your lives playing Wii Sports, fantastic, I am glad for you and hope you enjoy it. But Wii Sports would be the same in a better machine, while other developers who want to go further could do it. But as it is now, Wii limits a lot what a developer can do.
 
Z

ziran

Member
Gaijin To Ronin said:
There is no excuse for Nintendo adopting such a low profile system. They could have their "innovative controls" and made a decent system with a proper CPU and a more capable technology, selling it for the same money they are selling Wii now (with less revenue). Amir0x says, this has the potential for being catastrophic because producers can start thinking they don´t really need to put millions for supporting better technology when they can get the same or more money with "fun" and training games.



That is so wrong at so many levels. First, is Little Big Planet. Second, videogames can be much more that mere fun-a-tons and I don´t care how many people want that as videogame. How many people have read classics books or listen to the best classic composers? They are a minority, but they still offer more than Tom Clancy books or Britney Spears music (without disrespect for Clancy or Spears). There are a increasing number of people that demand experiences like Shadow of the Colossus, or who want to create their own stuff (I have heard Myspace and Youtube are popular). There are people who want more of videogames or that could be potentially interested on it, and we need better technology for all that.

If you and your family are having the time of your lives playing Wii Sports, fantastic, I am glad for you and hope you enjoy it. But Wii Sports would be the same in a better machine, while other developers who want to go further could do it. But as it is now, Wii limits a lot what a developer can do.
Click to expand...
There is a legitimate reason for Wii's power, development costs, which relates directly to Nintendo's desire for Wii to appeal to new markets and sell more than GC.

You misunderstand. I'm not saying I want to play Wii Sports fun type games all the time, I'm saying Wii's power is enough, and the added benefits more power brings aren't very appealing to me at the moment, and I think many people feel the same way.

This Maxis guy is saying Wii isn't powerful enough to deliver his dream, or live up to his expectations of what he wants to develop, which I understand, but there are systems out there which are up to his standards and if he wants new control schemes I think they'll be coming. Nintendo is under no obligation to appease the hardcore, and there is no correct, absolute view of what a videogame should be or where the industry should be heading.

Ultimately, this is a business, and developers will go where the money is. If they make games people don't like they won't sell well, and vice versa. Similarly, if Wii is what the public wants it will sell well, if it isn't it won't.
 
C

Captain Glanton

Banned
ziran said:
There is a legitimate reason for Wii's power, development costs, which relates directly to Nintendo's desire for Wii to appeal to new markets and sell more than GC.
You misunderstand. I'm not saying I want to play Wii Sports fun type games all the time, I'm saying Wii's power is enough, and the added benefits more power brings aren't very appealing to me at the moment, and I think many people feel the same way.

This Maxis guy is saying Wii isn't powerful enough to deliver his dream, or live up to his expectations of what he wants to develop, which I understand, but there are systems out there which are up to his standards and if he wants new control schemes I think they'll be coming. Nintendo is under no obligation to appease the hardcore, and there is no correct, absolute view of what a videogame should be or where the industry should be heading.

Ultimately, this is a business, and developers will go where the money is. If they make games people don't like they won't sell well, and vice versa. Similarly, if Wii is what the public wants it will sell well, if it isn't it won't.
Click to expand...

If this were true, and, additionally, Nintendo really wanted to help rejuvenate the industry and turn more people into fans of gaming, as they've said, wouldn't they sell it for something closer to cost, instead of more than twice cost?

All three console manufacturers are in this to make profit. But, Nintendo goes about it in the way that I find most troubling, because they put out a corporate image that is the most friendly, anti-exploitative of all three and then they turn around and offer the least gaming bang for your buck. Sony and MS want my bucks too, but at least they don't use cuddly mascots to try and trick me into thinking that they care about my feelings over profit.
 
M

Miguga64

Member
Look, videogames development is an Art.
Is like Music, Movies and Painting.

All this Arts had a breakline where different sides went in different opinion and perspectives.
And example is Classical Music and Contemporary Music. Both Are Great, both are right, but one is evolutive, is new, is the "next classical music".

In painting, the abstract style, and the classic style, many people in the time that abstract paintings came out, said that that was not art.

Here is the same. Maybe the Wii is poor compared to all the Next-Gen Stuff. But it have someting innovative, something differente, evolutive, something that points another place.

Wii isn't limits developers, it is another kind of artistic creative direction and development tool. Only the ones that are in that side will do that, the others, will keep making the same (not saying that is bad)

Sorry for my English, i speak spanish :D
 
S

Srider

Banned
Based on the sessions and speaking to key devs in-person, it seems that no one really cares about the Wii, except for the fanboys who ask every chance they get whether or not *insert game designer name* have future plans for the Wii. This includes Japanese developers.

NDS though, people are taking it seriously as a money making machine.

Also, Inafune of Capcom made a specific point about how he believes games are consumer products, and NOT art; which I agree with completely.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
FoxHimself said:
Amirox, here's a streaming better-than-youtube version of the Mario Galaxy video if you want to update the original post with it: http://www.dagbladet.no/tv/index.html?type=fbig&clipid=7603
Click to expand...

Thanks, added.

Blasphemy said:
Nintendo videos I took from GDC day 2 if you want to add them:

Shigeru Miyamoto Keynote (Nintendo) - http://www.gameklip.com/v/2672/
Brain Age Academy (WII ) - http://www.gameklip.com/v/2675/
Super Paper Mario - http://www.gameklip.com/v/2676/
N64 version of Mii's - http://www.gameklip.com/v/2677/
Wii mote in stages - http://www.gameklip.com/v/2678/
Click to expand...

Took a few of those links, I appreciate it. Updated. :)
 
T

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
Auuughghhh can't move. Last night was way too much.

It's not over yet, a couple of decent sessions tonight with Video Games Live to top it off!
 
I

inpHilltr8r

Member
...and we are done for another year! Some thoughts, and gossip from the last three days:

What is it with Nintendo dudes, and getting their wives to play games?

Chris Hecker talks shit every year, funny to see him finally get called on it.

Valve "dragged kicking and screaming into multi-core". Come to Jesus moment. Games are not inherently serial, that's just the denial talking. They're almost embarrasingly parallel. Loads of other devs seem to get this now.

Lots of people making/wanting to make XBLA/PSN games at the moment. I expect both services to explode over the next year. For all the talk of games getting too big and expensive last year, this is the response. Now all it needs is for you horrible lot to buy them.

Some funny gossip about a certain platform owners 'Home' equivalent that never made it out of prototype.

The brass balls (literally) at the Sony blogger meeting.

The W is not The Fairmont. Too small, too crowded.

300 ****ing rocks on IMAX.

Sony party tickets still rarer than hens teeth (smaller than last year, but better acts).

MS party still not on the same scale. Step up lads, spread some of those billions around. Live a little.

I'm too old for combat drinking...:(

Saw some good stuff at the indie games thing, but it was well hidden this year. Didn't find it until the last day, so didn't get to play as many as I'd like. Castle Crashers looked ace tho'.

Need to let people into the keynotes about an hour before they start, as both were late, and Miiamoto didn't cut to fit, so I missed Molyneaux's puppy.

xna upside down spells bux

LBP was game of the show. Nothing else had as many people frothing.
 
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