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Remnant: From The Ashes |OT| Bit Challenging? Then It's Souls-Like!

Karak

Member
Whats the content like in this? My friends and I are on the fence. We watched Angry Joe's stream yesterday and they completed the story in roughly five hours. However, I saw other streamers playing some dungeon things that look separate from the story? They all looked kinda samey though. Is there enough here to justify $40?
Did they take that vod down? They have over 21 hours on it and even their start was insanely high level stuff from playing prior and leveling up. And even that was with tons of just skipping all narrative content without letting it play. It looks like their starting video for the game isn't even up.
 
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Life

Member
Well, this tree boss finally pissed me off. I don't mind the challenge but the camera angles and lack of locking is frustrating, especially when it shoots those things at you. Gotta keep manually looking up and down while shooting pests on the ground too.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
Well, this tree boss finally pissed me off. I don't mind the challenge but the camera angles and lack of locking is frustrating, especially when it shoots those things at you. Gotta keep manually looking up and down while shooting pests on the ground too.

Here's what I did: the armor that decreases stamina usage, a dozen ammo consumables and then laps around the perimeter of the arena with a long range weapon. Fuck the adds, the boss will them. I have no idea how you do this boss as a close range dude.

Game is growing on me, but it needs a balance pass or something. I'm being hard on the game, but it has potential. The second world, for example, has you in a desert fighting through these ape men things that build African looking cities in the sand. It's very Dark Tower: a duster, a rifle and a strange world.
 
Finished the campaign last night at around 15 hours. The final boss was surprisingly mechanics-heavy. I'd love to see more bosses like that in the future content updates, though I wonder how often campaigns will drop. Hopefully they're free DLC.

I also read that there's going to be a free Adventure mode in a few weeks so that's something to look forward to in the near future.

But for now I'm going to reroll campaign on the hardest difficulty and see how much changes.

That's all bullshit and I'm not going to waste my time telling you why because you're playing the same game so you know it's bullshit
Sure dude.
All I'm going to say is that your posts remind me of when Demons Souls first came out and people whined that it was a 'bad game' because of x y z. And then as they played more and got better they realized how misinformed their previous posts were, because those posts were born from frustration.
 
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Lanrutcon

Member
Finished the campaign last night at around 15 hours. The final boss was surprisingly mechanics-heavy. I'd love to see more bosses like that in the future content updates, though I wonder how often campaigns will drop. Hopefully they're free DLC.

I also read that there's going to be a free Adventure mode in a few weeks so that's something to look forward to in the near future.

But for now I'm going to reroll campaign on the hardest difficulty and see how much changes.


Sure dude.
All I'm going to say is that your posts remind me of when Demons Souls first came out and people whined that it was a 'bad game' because of x y z. And then as they played more and got better they realized how misinformed their previous posts were, because those posts were born from frustration.

Updated thoughts:

- The upgrade system seems kinda broken, since you're capped at +5 increments until you advance a "chapter". I sat with +5 gear forever until I hit the next chapter and suddenly reforged gear shows up. So no, you can't just upgrade your shit. The game needs to let you upgrade your shit. There's an artificial limit and I'm assuming chapter 2 won't let me progress passed +10. Normally this would be fine, but the game scales with your gear. Upgading is incredibly shallow once you realise they only let you creep forward at a limited pace.

- The infinite enemy thing during bosses is completely unnecessary and totally not balanced for solo play. I thought it was necessary for ammo, but you can just buy ammo containers for practically nothing. There's no reason you should be getting swarmed by the same number of adds in solo as in a 4 player game. The adds need to scale to player count.

- The enemy teleport thing is not up for debate: it's stupid. I'm not sure if it's just lazy design or an actual development limitation that they had to work with (ie. for some reason placing enemies in the world beforehand was too resource intensive or something). When 4 enemies spawn literally steps behind you and kill you with a burst of ranged fire before you can even turn around, I call foul.

- Trait system unlocks are weirdly paced, and in no way aligns to the difficulty spikes in the game. Hiding the player's abilities from them is a very strange choice, and I'm not sure it adds anything but confusion. It certainly damages the initial experience when players go "why do I have 10 trait points and nothing but 3 virtualy useless traits to spend it on?". They should unlock more traits at the start, if only to ease people in. The game opens up once you get some options, and I don't think new players are going to see that.

- The low ammo counts for the player inventory makes no sense. Either the game is a horde shooter or its not. Either give the player realistic ammo counts or stop with the waves of enemies. 37 repeater rounds max, but I can carry 20 boxes of full ammo. They could strike a better balance between those two extremes. Hotkeying ammo boxes is almost mandatory and really just busywork. Ideally you should be able to upgrade the amount of ammo you carry via traits.

- Enemy ranged fire needs to have friendly fire. Getting shot through enemies is only fine when your game doesn't feature guns as a prominent weapon type. This might seem like a non-issue, but it happens disturbingly often especially with the larger melee monsters. Enemy melee hits have friendly fire (which I like), ranged fire needs the same.

- The actual enemy types confuse the hell out of me. The end of chapter 1 guys were lethal, the chapter 2 guys are comic relief. Is this the scaling acting up or will every chapter start with pushover enemies? Difficulty seems to be a drunk lightning bolt instead of a curve.

It's growing on me, as I said, but it needs work. I can almost promise you that the general opinion on this game will be "potentially good, but obviously flawed".
 
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Karak

Member
Updated thoughts:


- Enemy ranged fire needs to have friendly fire. Getting shot through enemies is only fine when your game doesn't feature guns as a prominent weapon type. This might seem like a non-issue, but it happens disturbingly often especially with the larger melee monsters. Enemy melee hits have friendly fire (which I like), ranged fire needs the same.
It must only be SOME enemies ranged. Bosses can for sure hit their people as the dragon hits his adds with his breath ball many times, knife throwers hit each other constantly. And I am seeing shots hit the back and stop at almost all the enemies just testing it right now. I wonder if some have it and some dont or something. Edit also in their streams they showed friendly range fire a number of times and the player actually discussed it.
 
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Lanrutcon

Member
It must only be SOME enemies ranged. Bosses can for sure hit their people as the dragon hits his adds with his breath ball many times, knife throwers hit each other constantly. And I am seeing shots hit the back and stop at almost all the enemies just testing it right now. I wonder if some have it and some dont or something. Edit also in their streams they showed friendly range fire a number of times and the player actually discussed it.

Yeah, agreed. Mainly it happens when I'm engaged with a large melee enemy and I'm waiting for the tell to dodge a swing. I'm watching...watching..then bam, a couple of projectiles clip through him and tag me. So annoying when it knocks you out of an animation.
 

Life

Member
Here's what I did: the armor that decreases stamina usage, a dozen ammo consumables and then laps around the perimeter of the arena with a long range weapon. Fuck the adds, the boss will them. I have no idea how you do this boss as a close range dude.


I tried this too - had to reload with the sniper rifle so many times . I still failed though. The main reason I'm dying is the camera angle. I don't always see the attacks and if you get hit once, you stagger, and the ground enemies finish you off. That's when I use the close appraoch though.
 
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G-Bus

Member
There's no option to purchase this on PSN. Bit disappointed. Was hoping to pre load and play this tonight.
 

TrainedRage

Banned
Just bought it. Y'all need to leave your tags so we can get some GAF groups crushing these monsters!

Steam ID: fryshakewad

Add me bros.
 
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John Day

Member
I’m reading all impressions, i’d really like to dedicate more time to coop games. But i don’t have any online friends to play with really, i more relly on matchmaking when it comes to multi games.

Gonna get this week 💪🏾
 

Lanrutcon

Member
I tried this too - had to reload with the sniper rifle so many times . I still failed though. The main reason I'm dying is the camera angle. I don't always see the attacks and if you get hit once, you stagger, and the ground enemies finish you off. That's when I use the close appraoch though.

This game could use some better audio for indications that the boss is doing "something". I'm playing with a m&K btw. So I can flick my mouse back every now and then and see if the boss is going to shockwave me or go into bombardment phase.

I spent last night on world 2. World 2 is absolutely not balanced for a solo player. When it's 3 quick dudes from the front, 3 quick dudes from the back, an explodey dude from wherever and a huge dude firing at you all at the same time....

The game's like, a 7.5 or 8 in coop and a goddamn 6 in solo, with every boss fight being an unpleasant slog.
 

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
 

Life

Member
This game could use some better audio for indications that the boss is doing "something". I'm playing with a m&K btw. So I can flick my mouse back every now and then and see if the boss is going to shockwave me or go into bombardment phase.

I spent last night on world 2. World 2 is absolutely not balanced for a solo player. When it's 3 quick dudes from the front, 3 quick dudes from the back, an explodey dude from wherever and a huge dude firing at you all at the same time....

The game's like, a 7.5 or 8 in coop and a goddamn 6 in solo, with every boss fight being an unpleasant slog.

Thanks for that update. I thought about using mouse and keyboard for the lack of lock-on. Sounds like the game was made only with Co-op in mind. If the number of enemies/boss health is the same as it is with co-op, then that's kinda plain stupid.

I think I'll call it quits.
 
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Lanrutcon

Member
Thanks for that update. I thought about using mouse and keyboard for the lack of lock-on. Sounds like the game was made only with Co-op in mind. If the number of enemies/boss health is the same as it is with co-op, then that's kinda plain stupid.

I think I'll call it quits.

So I'm 100% sure enemies are tougher with more players, but the number of enemies (and the fact they spawn out of thin air) is the problem. When you're alone you cannot control adds AND damage the boss AND keep an eye on environmental bullshit AND make sure something didn't just spawn right behind you. Something has to give, then you die and everything respawns. The fact that enemies have less health in solo doesn't make up for the fact that you only have 1 life. In coop you can just pick people up. It's essential.
 
I've been playing in the last couple of days, I like it so far.

There are things which need to be addressed, as some of you already mentioned, but it's damn fun and I like the aesthetics.

How's performance for you guys on pc? Seems stupidly demanding for what it is (had to lower details to high from ultra to get past 100fps on my 7700k and Titan X at 1440p, while cpu utilization was really low).
 
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tragic

Developer
This is not a good game.

The main problem stems from the conceptual shift from melee to ranged gameplay. They put guns into Souls-like gameplay and immediately realised that causes problems, which they couldn't solve.

- The player will just shoot everything and forget melee. Uh oh! We better restrict ammo...
- ...but then how do we handle boss fights? Uh oh! Better give every boss infinitely respawning minions...
- ...but then the player will just find some corner and bunker up! Uh oh! Better make enemies spawn out of thin air from behind the player...
- ...but then everything just gets shotgunned! Uh oh! Better make melee enemies that are immune to bullets until they swing at the player...

So you end up with an arena based third-person shooter with limited ammo, Souls level of damage, Souls level animation lengths, teleporting enemies and boss fights were you are literally rushed by infinite enemies. Imagine fighting the Capra demon with 12 instantly respawning dogs. And the Capra demon has a machine gun.

Don't get me started on the hitboxes.

Actually, adds are there for many reasons. 1) to have a way to infinitely spawn ammo (people might run out of money and not be able to afford ammo boxes, then be stuck), 2) to have an additional way to let you build mod power, 3) to be an "ad" (aka additional distraction) - without them, every boss would be a cakewalk. If you look at any boss fight in Destiny 2 up to Osirus (when I quit), every single boss that I can remember spawned adds... both in Leviathan and in any of the Strikes. In most cases, it's what made their fights hard as well.

I'm not saying that the ratio is perfect, I'm just giving reasons as to why they exist.

Also, we don't mind if you shoot everything and never melee. Totally fine with us. That was never really a design consideration. You can absolutely use it if you want, but we don't force you to.

Not sure what you are referring to in regards to enemies being immune to bullets when they are swinging. I can't think of any boss that is designed to work that way.


tragic tragic please patch the game and remove the infinite spawning adds. It makes the game broken and not challenging

I'm not sure what this means. It's not challenging? If we removed the adds, it would be less than challenging. What would we be patching? Honest question!


Updated thoughts:

- The upgrade system seems kinda broken, since you're capped at +5 increments until you advance a "chapter". I sat with +5 gear forever until I hit the next chapter and suddenly reforged gear shows up. So no, you can't just upgrade your shit. The game needs to let you upgrade your shit. There's an artificial limit and I'm assuming chapter 2 won't let me progress passed +10. Normally this would be fine, but the game scales with your gear. Upgading is incredibly shallow once you realise they only let you creep forward at a limited pace.

That isn't correct. You are not capped at +5 increments until you advance a chapter/biome. Once your gear is an average (all 6 slots) of +4 it will trickle (very low percentage) upgrade material for the next tier. When you get +5, it will drop more frequently. When you get into the next area of which the minimum level is "of the next tier" it will also show up. It's so you can get it early if you maintain all your gear, but also if you get to the next zone. It compels you to upgrade all of your chosen gear by giving you tons of the materials needed to do so and holding off on the resources for the next tier until you've raised the average level up enough.


- The infinite enemy thing during bosses is completely unnecessary and totally not balanced for solo play. I thought it was necessary for ammo, but you can just buy ammo containers for practically nothing. There's no reason you should be getting swarmed by the same number of adds in solo as in a 4 player game. The adds need to scale to player count.

See my original reply up top... but yes, they are necessary. That being said, the rate/ratio (and add selection) could always use some fine-tuning. Also, you do not get swarmed by the same amount of adds in 1p compared to 3p.

- The enemy teleport thing is not up for debate: it's stupid. I'm not sure if it's just lazy design or an actual development limitation that they had to work with (ie. for some reason placing enemies in the world beforehand was too resource intensive or something). When 4 enemies spawn literally steps behind you and kill you with a burst of ranged fire before you can even turn around, I call foul.

I'd like to see video evidence of this. Our dynamic system will typically not generate enemies on tiles you have already "cleared" when making forward progress. I'd have to see an example to confirm what is happening.

- Trait system unlocks are weirdly paced, and in no way aligns to the difficulty spikes in the game. Hiding the player's abilities from them is a very strange choice, and I'm not sure it adds anything but confusion. It certainly damages the initial experience when players go "why do I have 10 trait points and nothing but 3 virtualy useless traits to spend it on?". They should unlock more traits at the start, if only to ease people in. The game opens up once you get some options, and I don't think new players are going to see that.

You really think extra health and stamina are virtually useless (2/3 starting traits)? Besides raw DPS upgrades, they are the most useful traits in the game. What about mod power generation (Cultist). Also one of the best traits in the game outside of raw DPS as the game leans heavy on mod usage.

- The low ammo counts for the player inventory makes no sense. Either the game is a horde shooter or its not. Either give the player realistic ammo counts or stop with the waves of enemies. 37 repeater rounds max, but I can carry 20 boxes of full ammo. They could strike a better balance between those two extremes. Hotkeying ammo boxes is almost mandatory and really just busywork. Ideally you should be able to upgrade the amount of ammo you carry via traits.

Low ammo count but you can buy (very cheaply) ammo boxes that reload both weapons to the max faster than most reloads actually do. Adds also drop ammo. You have to think of it as a "sharpening stone" in MH. It's basically free, but it takes time, and it slows you down. Hotkeying sharpening stone is also busywork.

- Enemy ranged fire needs to have friendly fire. Getting shot through enemies is only fine when your game doesn't feature guns as a prominent weapon type. This might seem like a non-issue, but it happens disturbingly often especially with the larger melee monsters. Enemy melee hits have friendly fire (which I like), ranged fire needs the same.

Enemies should be taking damage and getting staggered from other enemies. Quite often Root Axes will hit other Root and stagger them. I've also seen bosses set their own minions on fire. Would need an example of this not happening so I could take a look.

- The actual enemy types confuse the hell out of me. The end of chapter 1 guys were lethal, the chapter 2 guys are comic relief. Is this the scaling acting up or will every chapter start with pushover enemies? Difficulty seems to be a drunk lightning bolt instead of a curve.

You sure you just didn't get better at the game?

It's growing on me, as I said, but it needs work. I can almost promise you that the general opinion on this game will be "potentially good, but obviously flawed".

I agree with you about "obviously flawed" (lots of things to address). The good news is, Steam was 94% earlier. It won't stay there obviously - we have a lot of bugs and some other stuff we really want to take care of - but it's been received pretty well, which is great. That being said, we are definitely aware of the general opinions regarding many elements of the game and are thinking about potential solutions in areas we think we can improve. It's definitely a learning experience, we don't have all the answers, just a foundation we want to build on.

I spent last night on world 2. World 2 is absolutely not balanced for a solo player. When it's 3 quick dudes from the front, 3 quick dudes from the back, an explodey dude from wherever and a huge dude firing at you all at the same time....

The game's like, a 7.5 or 8 in coop and a goddamn 6 in solo, with every boss fight being an unpleasant slog.

The game was balanced on solo (both normal and hard) first, before any tuning was done for multiplayer. Solo does not have revive, which makes it a much more daunting experience. Solo and MP are like two different games in some regards which makes it (for some people) an exciting proposition. It's like the Souls in solo vs mp... not the same thing (not even close difficulty-wise).

Thanks for that update. I thought about using mouse and keyboard for the lack of lock-on. Sounds like the game was made only with Co-op in mind. If the number of enemies/boss health is the same as it is with co-op, then that's kinda plain stupid.

I think I'll call it quits.

It was made with both solo and coop in mind (see above). The number of enemy spawns and the hp/dmg of enemies in coop is nowhere even remotely close in coop vs solo.
 
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Mista

Banned
I'm not sure what this means. It's not challenging? If we removed the adds, it would be less than challenging. What would we be patching? Honest question!
To be honest and please don’t feel offended because I don’t mean it at all. But it’s almost bizarre and impossible to do it alone. It’s more than challenging, the adds shouldn’t just respawn every minute or so. The player needs a window there so it can face the boss. All I’m doing is hit the boss for a little time and all my effort goes to the adds
 

Arozay

Member
I've been playing solo on hard, the bosses have been the only balanced part and somewhat impressive thing so far. Most of the difficulty comes from add spam and tight ammo though. I'm into the third area.

The levels do feel a bit rng, different mobs every time, teleporting bois and getting swarmed by the entire zone at the entrance due to weird aggro system. Melee is only good as a finisher and ammo is un-necessarily tight. Elite melee mobs just come down to running away and/or exploiting terrain.

Loot wise system is weird, chests are just a material-fest so its more of a chore, there are no drops aka scrap and iron collecting simulator. I was rocking the starter stuff forever because exploring was a pain when watching the ammo count.

Don't get me started on the burning status...

On the plus side the game LOOKS good.
 

peter42O

Member
I played Remnant for just under 6 hours and couldn't get past the first world. Died at least 30+ times on normal. My wish list for changes with a future patch (ps4) -

1. When health is low, there's blood on the screen. I hate this. It's so annoying. Wish an on/off option could be added in the settings so I could turn it off.

2. No regenerating health for bosses. Was fighting the world boss Grinder and he kept regenerating health while spawning those enemies that explode with poison to where I kept getting infected and coughing. And thus dying repeatedly. Hoping a patch can eliminate the regenerating health.

3. Melee combat assigned to R2 when not holding down L2. Wish the melee combat could be assigned to the square button, picking up items to triangle and switching weapons to R2.
 
tragic tragic I convinced a friend to pick up the game but I'm already trait level 100+. Is there a system in place that would sync my level down to his or do I have to start a new character? I imagine it's the latter but I just want to be sure.
 

tragic

Developer
I played Remnant for just under 6 hours and couldn't get past the first world. Died at least 30+ times on normal. My wish list for changes with a future patch (ps4) -

1. When health is low, there's blood on the screen. I hate this. It's so annoying. Wish an on/off option could be added in the settings so I could turn it off.

2. No regenerating health for bosses. Was fighting the world boss Grinder and he kept regenerating health while spawning those enemies that explode with poison to where I kept getting infected and coughing. And thus dying repeatedly. Hoping a patch can eliminate the regenerating health.

3. Melee combat assigned to R2 when not holding down L2. Wish the melee combat could be assigned to the square button, picking up items to triangle and switching weapons to R2.

1) We might be able to reduce that a bit. I'll ask about it tomorrow.

2) That is just luck of the draw. Usually not too bad if you stay on top of the boss or use DOT effects (like Hotshot Mod).

3) I don't think the controls will change all too much. We are pretty happy with how they turned out. That being said, we may offer some alternatives someday!

tragic tragic I convinced a friend to pick up the game but I'm already trait level 100+. Is there a system in place that would sync my level down to his or do I have to start a new character? I imagine it's the latter but I just want to be sure.

We are working on this. Right now there's no additional scaling (to bring you closer together). We are talking about some potential options, however. I'll keep you posted!
 

Karak

Member
Damn, really... wait for a sale. No MTX, dozens and dozens of hours of gameplay, 40$. feelsbadman.
Yep. looking forward to the patches though. Our Playthroughs needed them. Had some good fun despite that though.
 
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tragic

Developer
Yep. looking forward to the patches though. Our Playthroughs needed them. Had some good fun despite that though.

You think the game, even as shipped, is only worth 20$? That's pretty surprising. Then again, I know everyone's tastes and opinions are different, so that's fair I suppose.

Forgot to add, day 1 patch is already out.
 
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G-Bus

Member
Barely played any solo until quitting out and joining a game. Hopefully they patch in a better way to spawn. Had to wait 10 minutes before they hit a checkpoint.

A lot of fun. Took us a few tries to take out the first boss. Pretty straight forward fight just had to use a bit of teamwork for adds and boss aggro.

Hopefully weapon upgrades and loot stays with me. Pretty sure I read that progression doesn't when joining a game.
 

tragic

Developer
Barely played any solo until quitting out and joining a game. Hopefully they patch in a better way to spawn. Had to wait 10 minutes before they hit a checkpoint.

A lot of fun. Took us a few tries to take out the first boss. Pretty straight forward fight just had to use a bit of teamwork for adds and boss aggro.

Hopefully weapon upgrades and loot stays with me. Pretty sure I read that progression doesn't when joining a game.

We are looking into a potential alternative to this current method but with an eye on potential exploits. Will need some additional thought, but we know it can be an issue.
 

EekTheKat

Member
The PS4 (pro) version has quite a clean image quality - looks like a good amount of AA + AF. It's certainly very noticeable for me as I've been playing the PS Plus version of Sniper Elite which had quite a good amount of aliasing all over the place.

Mechanics aside, I think the groundwork is here for something special. I had some struggles early on, but I think I found a pretty steady groove after a few upgrades. This has been one of those games where you look up at the clock and suddenly realize hours had passed by.

Tragic's mechanics posts kind of spoiled things for me in a way though, but it sort of eased me into the game a bit and gave me a good idea of how different the progression is.
 

tragic

Developer
The PS4 (pro) version has quite a clean image quality - looks like a good amount of AA + AF. It's certainly very noticeable for me as I've been playing the PS Plus version of Sniper Elite which had quite a good amount of aliasing all over the place.

Mechanics aside, I think the groundwork is here for something special. I had some struggles early on, but I think I found a pretty steady groove after a few upgrades. This has been one of those games where you look up at the clock and suddenly realize hours had passed by.

Tragic's mechanics posts kind of spoiled things for me in a way though, but it sort of eased me into the game a bit and gave me a good idea of how different the progression is.

Doh, well didn't mean to spoil anything, mechanically. People were asking about how the scaling worked and I wanted to give them factual information (people love info!).
 

G-Bus

Member
We are looking into a potential alternative to this current method but with an eye on potential exploits. Will need some additional thought, but we know it can be an issue.

This is always great to see. Thanks for the response. You guys done good. Hopefully that's reflected in sales.

Looking forward to future content. Got something real good here.
 

tragic

Developer
This is always great to see. Thanks for the response. You guys done good. Hopefully that's reflected in sales.

Looking forward to future content. Got something real good here.

Thanks for the kind words. We are working hard to respond to the community feedback!
 

EekTheKat

Member
Doh, well didn't mean to spoil anything, mechanically. People were asking about how the scaling worked and I wanted to give them factual information (people love info!).

Hah It's cool - in this day and age a bit of clarity often can nudge players in the right direction just enough so that the game clicks.

My last boss fight felt hard, but was manageable through the use of some consumables.
the stagger effect from the Boss's shotgun was a bit annoying though
.
 

peter42O

Member
1) We might be able to reduce that a bit. I'll ask about it tomorrow.

2) That is just luck of the draw. Usually not too bad if you stay on top of the boss or use DOT effects (like Hotshot Mod).

3) I don't think the controls will change all too much. We are pretty happy with how they turned out. That being said, we may offer some alternatives someday!

Thanks for replying to my post. Appreciate it.

1. Thank you for looking into it and possibly reducing it but would LOVE to have an on/off option for that blood on screen effect. I will never understand why developers put that in their games when there's a health bar. For a game like Uncharted, makes sense even though I still dislike it but for games with a health bar, I just don't get it. It doesn't accomplish anything except being a distraction and annoying.

2. What do you mean luck of the draw??? I died on that boss 10+ times. I did however just finally beat him within several shots and made it up to him without dying once which I couldn't believe. This time though, I didn't see him regenerate health at all. Is this random/like you said, luck of the draw? Please explain. Thanks.

3. I'm getting better at the controls because I learned a nice trick. Instead of using the left analog to try to turn my character and melee the enemies, instead I rotate the camera as I realized that the direction of the camera is where my melee attack will be focused on. Would love a customizable button option but overall, not my biggest complaint.
 

tragic

Developer
Thanks for replying to my post. Appreciate it.

1. Thank you for looking into it and possibly reducing it but would LOVE to have an on/off option for that blood on screen effect. I will never understand why developers put that in their games when there's a health bar. For a game like Uncharted, makes sense even though I still dislike it but for games with a health bar, I just don't get it. It doesn't accomplish anything except being a distraction and annoying.

I'll see about it. Might be an option!

2. What do you mean luck of the draw??? I died on that boss 10+ times. I did however just finally beat him within several shots and made it up to him without dying once which I couldn't believe. This time though, I didn't see him regenerate health at all. Is this random/like you said, luck of the draw? Please explain. Thanks.

I meant that it's luck of the draw that you got that "affix" (regenerator). We make sure to allow you to buy Hotshot from the start of the game (if you don't pick Scrapper to start). Very helpful against regenerator.

3. I'm getting better at the controls because I learned a nice trick. Instead of using the left analog to try to turn my character and melee the enemies, instead I rotate the camera as I realized that the direction of the camera is where my melee attack will be focused on. Would love a customizable button option but overall, not my biggest complaint.

This is classic! Glad you find yourself getting better!
 

Lanrutcon

Member
Hello there, Mr Developer. This is a first for me.

Actually, adds are there for many reasons. 1) to have a way to infinitely spawn ammo (people might run out of money and not be able to afford ammo boxes, then be stuck), 2) to have an additional way to let you build mod power, 3) to be an "ad" (aka additional distraction) - without them, every boss would be a cakewalk. If you look at any boss fight in Destiny 2 up to Osirus (when I quit), every single boss that I can remember spawned adds... both in Leviathan and in any of the Strikes. In most cases, it's what made their fights hard as well.

I have over 60 ammo crates on my character: they cost 200 of the resource you have the most of. You're underestimating how easy it is to stock up on those (vendor -> buy). People can't run out of money, since enemies respawn and money is a common drop. Destiny 2 is a poor example because, again, you run a strike with a team and there you actually need the ammo. You don't have ammo replenishing consumables. I'll agree that removing every add would make (most) of the bosses less interesting, but lessening the fodder's aggression or speed or something would make the experience less frustrating when you're alone. They simply form a wall that eats your shots, and by the time you've reloaded to deal with the boss they're back or almost back again. If you don't deal with them again and again you just die, and there's no-one to get you up again like in mp. When your boss is the least threatening thing in a boss fight there's an issue.

Not sure what you are referring to in regards to enemies being immune to bullets when they are swinging. I can't think of any boss that is designed to work that way.

When they _aren't_ swinging. The pyramid head dual swordsmen, which are actually immune to bullets unless they charge or attack. A less literal example would be those giant guys in the first chapter with the swords. I couldn't figure out where their weak spots are, and they have a ton of HP to boot. They have weakpoints somewhere, right?


That isn't correct. You are not capped at +5 increments until you advance a chapter/biome. Once your gear is an average (all 6 slots) of +4 it will trickle (very low percentage) upgrade material for the next tier. When you get +5, it will drop more frequently. When you get into the next area of which the minimum level is "of the next tier" it will also show up. It's so you can get it early if you maintain all your gear, but also if you get to the next zone. It compels you to upgrade all of your chosen gear by giving you tons of the materials needed to do so and holding off on the resources for the next tier until you've raised the average level up enough.

Ah, now this is never explained in game and seems pretty important information. I kept pushing forward to try and find the next tier of upgrade material, meanwhile there's a system behind the scenes keeping it from me. Consider exposing this information to the player somehow, because upgrading mechanics are too important to obfuscate.

See my original reply up top... but yes, they are necessary. That being said, the rate/ratio (and add selection) could always use some fine-tuning. Also, you do not get swarmed by the same amount of adds in 1p compared to 3p.

Here's a thought: instead of tweaking the ratio of adds, how about tweaking the time it takes for them to come back? Let the player buy time to deal with the boss by swiftly dealing with the adds. In a team you have 3x the firepower, 3x the targets, 3x the abilities, multiple lives, etc. Alone you have...9 rounds in the magazine and a prayer.

I'd like to see video evidence of this. Our dynamic system will typically not generate enemies on tiles you have already "cleared" when making forward progress. I'd have to see an example to confirm what is happening.

I wasn't recording (I don't stream or anything). The scenario was chapter 1 in the section with the empty, multi-floor office blocks. I entered building #2 from building #1 via a walkway between the first floors. I walked into a room which I had cleared from a distance, heard the spawn sound, turned around and 3 or 4 of those automatic-rifle guy were on the ramp leading to the bottom floor, which was about 3 steps behind me. They all burst and I died. There were no sound queues to indicate they were right behind me, me turning was purely in reaction to the generic spawn sound which makes me look around for potential targets. There seems to be a general lack of directional sound queues.

Another example (more reproducible): would be the chapter 2 "alien" dungeons where the things spawn out of the walls. I've constantly had them spawn right behind without making a sound in a fight.

You really think extra health and stamina are virtually useless (2/3 starting traits)? Besides raw DPS upgrades, they are the most useful traits in the game. What about mod power generation (Cultist). Also one of the best traits in the game outside of raw DPS as the game leans heavy on mod usage.

When you're alone the extra health and stamina don't make a difference. There's no-one to kill things while your run or cover you while you try to heal. Taking an extra hit or two doesn't matter when you're being swarmed: it doesn't stop you being staggered, it doesn't stop your animations being interrupted, it doesn't let you aim while your knees are being eaten by a horde of little guys. Plus, the damage on large enemies kills you in 2 or 3 hits anyway. The health upgrade doesn't even give you an extra hit where they're concerned. Raw DPS traits are so much handier when playing alone. I'd trade the health trait for a "increased clip size" or "increased run speed" or "% to ignore stagger" trait in a heartbeat.

Also: consider unlocking more traits for the player at the beginning. When I opened the trait screen for the first time and only saw 3 basic traits I thought "ah, janky budget title, I guess" which is misleading. Maybe put down big question marks where future traits will appear, so the new players know that traits "become a thing" as you progress. Just a thought.

Low ammo count but you can buy (very cheaply) ammo boxes that reload both weapons to the max faster than most reloads actually do. Adds also drop ammo. You have to think of it as a "sharpening stone" in MH. It's basically free, but it takes time, and it slows you down. Hotkeying sharpening stone is also busywork.

So is or isn't the game balanced with the ammo boxes in mind? If it is, then you can lower add counts during bosses since we have ammo items. If it isn't, then you can up our ammo counts. Or you can add a trait for ammo capacity levels. Or a trait for clip sizes. I love my repeater rifle and you would be endorsing that love if you gave it the ability to hold more rounds, sir.

That being said, of all my criticisms of the game, this one is the least relevant. Now I know to just buy ammo crates and forget the ammo system exists.

Enemies should be taking damage and getting staggered from other enemies. Quite often Root Axes will hit other Root and stagger them. I've also seen bosses set their own minions on fire. Would need an example of this not happening so I could take a look.

So those Root Axes (the initial enemies, they throw something at you?) would be my example. I'm of the opinion that they probably should friendly fire, but the hitboxes for the game are kind of...well, spotty. Enemy shots clipping through enemy models. Like I said, I've seen other ranged friendly fire happening, like with the teleporting archers that shoot the explodey arrows and the exploding spear guys. I think you'll be seeing video evidence of the shots going through models at some point as people stream/Let's Play the game.

You sure you just didn't get better at the game?

Probably not. Those tribal guys in the skull helms literally fall over if you shoot them center mass. Then you just shoot them again while they're on the ground. Compare that to the assholes at the end of chapter 1, with their ground explosions, grenades, machine guns,. etc.

I agree with you about "obviously flawed" (lots of things to address). The good news is, Steam was 94% earlier. It won't stay there obviously - we have a lot of bugs and some other stuff we really want to take care of - but it's been received pretty well, which is great. That being said, we are definitely aware of the general opinions regarding many elements of the game and are thinking about potential solutions in areas we think we can improve. It's definitely a learning experience, we don't have all the answers, just a foundation we want to build on.

Dude, game is great. It needs some tuning (imo), but it's a fun romp. Maybe I'm terrible at the game and my criticisms are completely invalid. I'm sure other feedback will either echo some of what I've said, or give you compelling reasons to ignore me. Either way, thanks for posting here. I hope your game performs well.

The game was balanced on solo (both normal and hard) first, before any tuning was done for multiplayer. Solo does not have revive, which makes it a much more daunting experience. Solo and MP are like two different games in some regards which makes it (for some people) an exciting proposition. It's like the Souls in solo vs mp... not the same thing (not even close difficulty-wise).

I don't know what you intended, but as more players play your game I think you'll find that the solo experience you've created is a shitton harder than playing with people. I'm seeing people post on Steam about how easy the game was, and how they beat it in 20 hours...then you realise they did it with 2 other players and it all makes sense.

It was made with both solo and coop in mind (see above). The number of enemy spawns and the hp/dmg of enemies in coop is nowhere even remotely close in coop vs solo.

Got some numbers for me on that? I don't doubt you, I just want to know what the differences are. In solo I'm routinely assaulted by groups of 8+. During boss fights 6+ adds are the norm so far. You're telling me that's been scaled down already.
 
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Protocol7

Member
tragic tragic Really cool you're taking time to answer posts.
I was wondering: any chance your team is planning to add a resolution (4k30) / performance 1080/60 option (something like that) for Pro/X versions?
 
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Tbone3336

Member
Having put in about 12 - 15 hours across the Xbox and PS4 Versions since last weekend solo, and readily admit I am not the best at games like this, I have had a bunch of fun with this game. I can see people getting frustrated at a few mechanics, people did with souls games and even games like cuphead. It took me 30+ attempts at gorefist ( my first fight on my first run) but now that I figured some things out as to how to approach each fight and to look for a few sign as to what type of status effects the boss and adds inflict, I can almost beat him without taking a hit and have a much easier time on other bosses.

The fire mod on the gun is essential in the early game and it refills fast enough that on many boss fights you can almost continually have the boss on fire helping keep any health regen in check. Also, it may take some time, but maxing your upgrades of your guns and armor in each level is critical, as the damage I took was way less after all armor was leveled up during each area. ( I had failed to work on my armor and only concentrated on upgrading weapons during my first few hours then figured out to up my armor as well).

Also, the status effect removal items are easy enough to obtain and are also crucial to staying alive, more so I feel than in a souls game. Once you figure out what a particular boss fight entails, setting your quick-bar with those items is also important to be able to remove the effects during the fight.

Also I mentioned this earlier in a post over the weekend and I have seen it more now, there are down times in each boss fight where you do have time to recover even with the adds coming in. It took me a while to figure that out and identify those times with each fight, and when I calmed down and was not constantly trying to deal damage or blindly running around cause I was in a panic, I found I could bandage or heal or remove status effects and regroup myself.

I think the game is worth the buy and is refreshing with the gun play compared to similar hack and slash games of this type.
 

EekTheKat

Member
Okay just deviated from my single player run and joined a buddy for a game, and to our surprise the game actually works fairly well on our subpar connections. On a somewhat laggy connection the game felt pretty responsive and we did a boss fight seemingly without having to fight typical latency issues.

Typically when we play these type of games we have to fight lag on top of the actual encounter.

It could be just luck, especially with just two players, but the game just scored pretty big on a first impression on that one.

So big thumbs up from us on that one
 

peter42O

Member
I'll see about it. Might be an option!

Awesome. Would make me so happy and enjoy the game even more. Thank you!!!

I meant that it's luck of the draw that you got that "affix" (regenerator). We make sure to allow you to buy Hotshot from the start of the game (if you don't pick Scrapper to start). Very helpful against regenerator.

Sorry but what is Hotshot? That's a MOD? And what exactly does it do? Thanks.

This is classic! Glad you find yourself getting better!

Yeah, I was constantly getting frustrated with my character not turning and facing the direction I wanted him to and once I learned the camera trick, those little pesky two feet high fat and round sewer enemies with axes in each hand were one hit melee kills for me. Melee has become better and more enjoyable now that im no longer having to fight my character to get him facing and attacking in the direction that I want him to. :)
 

Tbone3336

Member
Sorry but what is Hotshot? That's a MOD? And what exactly does it do? Thanks.

It is a mod that adds fire rounds to your gun with a recharge as you hit enemies. ( it can be bought no matter what archetype you choose)

Hot Shot
How to Get: Can be bought from McCabe for 750 Scrap but only if you have chosen the Scrapper Archetype.
Using the mod as an attachment on your weapon will enable the effect Imbues ammunition with Fire for 30 seconds increasing damage dealt by 20%. Shots also have a chance to set the target on fire, dealing 100 damage over 10 seconds.
 
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peter42O

Member
Here's a complaint that is annoying me -

Can you NOT sell/dismantle weapons and armor? I bought a better shotgun than I what I start with as well as a hunting rifle and long blade for melee attacks. But would like to get something back for the weapons/armor that I won't use anymore of have any interest in. Thanks.

It is a mod that adds fire rounds to your gun with a recharge as you hit enemies. ( it can be bought no matter what archetype you choose)

Hot Shot
How to Get: Can be bought from McCabe for 750 Scrap but only if you have chosen the Scrapper Archetype.
Using the mod as an attachment on your weapon will enable the effect Imbues ammunition with Fire for 30 seconds increasing damage dealt by 20%. Shots also have a chance to set the target on fire, dealing 100 damage over 10 seconds.

I saw it and may get it. I like the healing MOD that I have.
 

tragic

Developer
Hello there, Mr Developer. This is a first for me.

Hi there, Remnant fan! =)

Dude, game is great. It needs some tuning (imo), but it's a fun romp. Maybe I'm terrible at the game and my criticisms are completely invalid. I'm sure other feedback will either echo some of what I've said, or give you compelling reasons to ignore me. Either way, thanks for posting here. I hope your game performs well.

Your criticism are great, actually. You may be terrible at the game or you may be pretty good and getting better. That's up for you to decide! It's also up for us to tune it and tweak it so you feel like you are getting rewarded for getting better - so you can feel the difference in your skill.

I don't know what you intended, but as more players play your game I think you'll find that the solo experience you've created is a shitton harder than playing with people. I'm seeing people post on Steam about how easy the game was, and how they beat it in 20 hours...then you realise they did it with 2 other players and it all makes sense.

Oh, it's definitely really hard (for most). What we find is that many many many people find it very hard... but keep going. This is the experience we wanted to create, but we also don't want you to feel cheated. We will keep working on it!


Got some numbers for me on that? I don't doubt you, I just want to know what the differences are. In solo I'm routinely assaulted by groups of 8+. During boss fights 6+ adds are the norm so far. You're telling me that's been scaled down already.

Definitely no extra enemies as you get stronger. Meaning, Gorefist will spawn the same amount of adds if you are level 2 or level 20. He WILL spawn more in co-op, though.


tragic tragic Really cool you're taking time to answer posts.
I was wondering: any chance your team is planning to add a resolution (4k30) / performance 1080/60 option (something like that) for Pro/X versions?

I'll try to follow-up with the tech team!
 
Started playing this with the wife last night and we were pleasantly surprised. Story is throw away, but once you get into the main game it's fun working together. We'd both be searching for hidden loot when she'd call out a bad guy, I'd start moving over, but get spotted by another. Now we've got an archer firing at us while the melee creatures charged at us. She goes down just as I'm finally getting to her position. While reviving her I notice you have to spend one of your own dragon hearts to get a friend up, I dig that. She gets back up and we work together to clean up the melee mobs and hunt down the archer.

I can see co-op being a pain with randoms, but with one or two dedicated friends, it's a blast.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
Tried playing some more and got to the Hive boss. Then I put off the game, and went to play something else.

There is no way this is balanced for solo play. 90% of the fight is continuously killing the same 4 adds that respawn in seconds.

Let me know when there's a patch for this shit.
 
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