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[Mononoke]

I think you need to consider why they are fretting about it.


Is it because of their own issues with female protagonists, or is it because of realistic concerns of gamers issues with female protagonists? While either way it's sad, where we should put the blame differs greatly based on the answer to the above.

If it's the latter, it's hard to fault Sony execs. They have to make decisions based on sales expectations. They are a publicly traded company.

Yeah, that is what I was trying to get at. The situation can be sad, but it might not be a bad reflection on Sony, if market research has shown this (and continued to show this). It could be an issue with society. *shrugs*

When these games cost so much to invest in, and it's such an insane risk, then yeah, you need to be scared as a company, if you are seeing some very troubling signs. Now, I would be down on Sony if they: didn't give this game a full marketing budget they would for a game with a male lead (thus not giving it a chance). If they were taking steps to create a self-fulfilling prophecy and not giving it a chance, and then turning around and going SEE -- female leads don't sell well. Then yeah, I would be pissed at Sony.

 

[Soren01]

I prefer a male protagonist.

 

[StoopKid]

To be fair

There is a precedent that games with female protagonists tend to not sell alot.

Remember Me, Mirrors Edge, Beyond, Beyond Good and Evil, Heavenly Sword, Wet, etc.

I'm excited for the game, but I understand that funding a game like this to be a AAA title is..risque.

Whats the last game with a female protagonists to put up big numbers?

 

[Orochinagis]

A wild world without water?

I mean the other tribes have some sort of tribe marking or being dirt due being hunting so often, their clotches looks worn out so you can tell they are living in a dangerous enviroment.

The protagonist looks weird despite her genre, clotches clean, visible face, not real indication of her being working or struggle, looks like she would be a Lara croft being getting dirt and mud as the story progress.

 

[Auctopus]

Nothing wrong with a female lead.

I'm getting tired of the industry acting like female characters are some taboo thing.

They're not but they're a business and if they don't think something's going to sell, they're less likely to go with it.

Focus testing as a business practice, not a creative one.

 

[Setsuna]

Yeah but Heavenly Sword bombed...

Still they're ignoring the Tomb Raider franchise...

Bombed so hard they turned the story into a movie and allowed a spiritual successor to be developed

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Whats the last game with a female protagonists to put up big numbers?

I wanna say the Tomb Raider remake. I'm not super sure though, I don't really follow sales. Tomb Raider has always been an exception though.

 

[Dice//]

I would prefer a male protagonist.

I would prefer a female protagonist.

I wanna say the Tomb Raider remake. I'm not super sure though, I don't really follow sales.

I don't mean to look at it "this way" but a shame Remember Me didn't perform better. I absolutely adored the dark-skinned female lead. Very different from what's usually offered.
But yeah I'd say Tomb Raider is up there... I guess FF13 too but the game is sort of marred by its peculiar plot and character direction.

 

[Jigorath]

Well whatever, I love the character design so I'm happy they went with her.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

Sad world this is a discussion. What is there to discuss?

 

[Soren01]

I would prefer a female protagonist.

Then this game is for you

 

[Deleted member 10571]

I for one am happy with this decision. The videogame world needs more actually cool and interesting female protagonists. Can't imagine anyone honestly arguing against this though lol

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Being a good game is vastly more likely to translate into sales than whether the main character has an X or Y chromosome or not.

Marketing has no control over that though.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I don't mean to look at it "this way" but a shame Remember Me didn't perform better. I absolutely adored the dark-skinned female lead. Very different from what's usually offered.
But yeah I'd say Tomb Raider is up there... I guess FF13 too but the game is sort of marred by its peculiar plot and character direction.

Oh yeah, the Final Fantasy 13 games as well I suppose. I would argue that it's also an exception, but Lightning seems to be a pretty popular character.

 

[Dice//]

I for one am happy with this decision. The videogame world needs more actually cool and interesting female protagonists. Can't imagine anyone honestly arguing against this though lol

You'd be surprised then. =/

 

[kirblar]

I need numbers. And again, why are female lead products more likely to bomb?

They are more likely to bomb because they have female protagonists. Tons of comics bomb and are 6-12 issues and done- but it's been such a massive pattern over the years that drawing any other conclusion is ignoring the obvious.

Here are the direct market (comic book stores) sales numbers for the past two decades: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

Taking May 2014 as a random sample, of the top 100 you have the following female-led books:

14- Harley Quinn
59- Ms Marvel
71- Batgirl
85- Elektra
88- Black Widow
89- Captain Marvel
93- She-Hulk

I'm not saying this because I want it to be true- I like female led games/titles and think having diversity there is great. But it's clear that there's a sizable % of the male market who prefers male protags to a significant degree, and a publisher's desire to maximize sales will lead to them appeasing the lowest common denominator.

 

[machinecaliber]

I don't think anyone minds internal dialogue, just the amount of it in that short time. I don't think Drake talks that much as in that demo

I don't know the amount of quips and banter alone in that demo. Though your right in that instance it's just more about it being a funny dialogue with Sully so less of a thing there I guess, but get Drake solo though I bet he's just nearly as chatty in spots.

 

[jimforspeed]

To be fair

There is a precedent that games with female protagonists tend to not sell alot.

Remember Me, Mirrors Edge, Beyond, Beyond Good and Evil, Heavenly Sword, Wet, etc.

I'm excited for the game, but I understand that funding a game like this to be a AAA title is..risque.

Yes but the problem is not Sony or GG themselves having concerns, it's the people that with their attitude made them have concerns.

Can't even argue about it no more. What is wrong with the industry? Movies and series have female protagonists doing all kind of shit all the time, and no one makes an issue out of it.

Her design is beatiful, the game is amazingly interesting and we all can have potentially tons of fan with this one. And yet some people won't buy it not because they don't like the concept, art style or story, but because of HER. Unbelievable.

 

[kiguel182]

It's kinda sad that this type of thing has to be focus tested and it's a reason to worry. And some people still had negative comments about it.

Fortunately most reactions seem positive and this is not an issue. Hopefully she is a cool character and can't wait to play the game since it looks amazing.

And, in the end, glad they stuck to their vision. This is, no doubt, a good thing.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think one of the things that hightlights why picking a sole female character is still viewed as risky by companies is how developers with a gender select handle their marketing. Just look at Fallout 4. Which character did they choose to demo the game with? The male character. The same one featured in the reveal trailer. And this happens with basically every single RPG with a gender select option. They always push the male lead in nearly every piece of media available. Trailers, gameplay, commercials etc. Games with only one playable character can't essentially make it look like it has a male lead through marketing like those games.

 

[Black Republican]

If Sony really wanted to nervous, theyd make her a woman....and black

now that will ring alarms

 

[Kinyou]

She didn't really talk that much though? Maybe before the action started but that was all world-building exposition.

It's just the impression I had. And as someone else said, it seemed a little weird when it was during a stealthy bit.

But I also think it's likely that this is because it's a demo and they had to introduce the character, world etc. lots of stuff in very little time.

I think one of the things that hightlights why picking a sole female character is still viewed as risky by companies is how developers with a gender select handle their marketing. Just look at Fallout 4. Which character did they choose to demo the game with? The male character. The same one featured in the reveal trailer. And this happens with basically every single RPG with a gender select option. They always push the male lead in nearly every piece of media available. Trailers, gameplay, commercials etc. Games with only one playable character can't essentially make it look like it has a male lead through marketing like those games.

Dishonored 2 is probably one of the first where this isn't the case.

 

[IAmRandom31]

Did Sony have a female lead within an open world that they could point toward and go " see! It won't effect sales at all ". This is likely a 100 million dollar project or around there and is a huge investment so it is simply smart of them to study and research everything from every angle. If they found in the focus testing they 20% would of preferred a male lead that could of affected sales and turned a profitable game into a non profitable one. No doubt Sony wants this to be HUGE, so they would be dumb not to be nervous about it. We don't live in some dream world where people aren't stupid about trivial things like this. Hell I know plenty of people who will avoid games if they are forced to play a female, unless that female is hyper sexualized and fun to look at like LC or Bayonetta or shit like that.

I'm trying hard to think of a game where it sold a ton with a female lead only but drawing blanks. Tomb Raider sure but it did not gain success early on due to great gameplay.

 

[Darryl M R]

Are gamers complaining that Horizon's female protagonist is ugly but you guys aren't winning any beauty contests yourself. Geez let's not nitpick this female character and suggest she needs to be slimmer and have a different hairstyle.

 

[danthefan]

I don't give one fig about the gender of the protagonist but the game looks cool so I'll probably buy anyway.

 

[machinecaliber]

Yup.


Though I suspect the most jarring portion was when she was supposed to be stealthy. Whether it is implied to be an internal dialog or actually being verbalized (as it seems many took it) ... it's still a bit odd in those situations either way. At least that much of it?


I still think much of the concern is peoples' previous run-ins with bad overly talky protagonists - poor writing, numerous repeats, poor voice acting, etc.

That explains the argument/position much better, it just seems like it's way too soon and presumptuous for the amount of condemnation it's been getting but can't please everyone I guess.

 

[dubq]

I don't mind female characters. As long as they don't feed feminazi bull crap I'll play the hell out of a female lead game.

Yeesh. Don't let your recent breakup stop you from telling us how you really feel.

 

[AkimbO_Arcana]

Was actually the only AAA announcement I liked/gave a shit about. Loved the character and monster design.

And the idiots shouldn't worry too much. There will be more focus tests and she will look more generic in the final game.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I think we need a gender topic based on this topic: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1065063&highlight=

Some of the responses in here are kinda sad and lack any sort of empathy to the growing market of female players.

On one hand, I get it. I don't watch Sailor Moon cuz the themes, characters, and art style was not appealing to me. I couldn't get into it and that's fine cuz I understood that it was designed for a female audience in mind.

 

[Gastone]

I thought the female character in Horizon was hot! Really cool outfit too. I always play a female protagonist if given the option.

 

[Catdaddy]

I was more surprised at how clean the machines looked, it's like they all came out of the car-wash 5 minutes before the demo.

I read it described as post-post-apocalyptic, like 1000 years after the apocalypse, and nature has taken everything back and something to do with nanotechnology and nature combining.

As for the topic at hand, I’ve always liked having an ass-kicking female protagonist in the game. As for the games where you “make your own protagonist” I mainly create female leads. And it’s not cause they are “hot”, just a choice. I guess there is a segment of folks that will not play a game because the protagonist is a female, not sure why someone would sacrifice playing a game because of the look of the main character. That said, I did quit playing GTA 4 because I didn’t like the Niko – had nothing to do with race, gender, or nationality – he (and cousin) was just annoying and didn’t feel like spending hours playing him.

 

[Alx]

A female character wielding a bow is more of a cliché in recent culture than a risky choice. I'm fine with it, but it may be the only thing in Horizon that is conventional, actually.

 

[Nabbis]

I don't really care if it's male, female or alien. As long as it does not have that psychotic inner monologue that Drake has.

 

[Dice//]

On one hand, I get it. I don't watch Sailor Moon cuz the themes, characters, and art style was not appealing to me. I couldn't get into it and that's fine cuz I understood that it was designed for a female audience in mind.

It depends though. Sailor Moon seems to still have a pretty big male audience (and hell, so does My Little Pony). Vice versa is that even male oriented things don't necessarily mean putting a female is bad.

I think it's more the content of a title likely to turn heads, not whether it stars a certain character of a certain gender.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

i can't play as tits and vagina

got too much testosterone

 

[SSReborn]

I wonder if they looked at how well first light did to help come to a conclusion. I didn't even know the whole "I can't play as a female" thing was an issue until I saw the post from the dude in the other thread.

 

[ninjablade]

they should have went with a male as the main charcater, especially since the game is about tribes and fighting robot dinos. they are gonna lose tons of sales, and the character just isn't anywhere as appealing as the new lara croft.

 

[NahaNago]

If it makes it easier to understand where the publishers are coming from can anyone name a AAA game with a female main character that didn't flop or had better than okay sales outside of lara croft. I honestly can't think of any.

 

[Gsnap]

She seems pretty cool. A little eye-rolly that they felt nervous, but I suppose I can understand with how the current climate is. Well good they committed, and maybe don't be so nervous next time. If horizon bombs it won't be because of the female protagonist.

 

[Dice//]

If it makes it easier to understand where the publishers are coming from can anyone name a AAA game with a female main character that didn't flop or had better than okay sales outside of lara croft. I honestly can't think of any.

Did they 'flop' because the game were bad or because a 'woman made it bad'?
As far as I can tell it's the latter. The Trip-A games with females leads seem to have met with criticism not pertaining to the character but a gameplay element.

 

[razgriz417]

She seems like an awesome character, fuck those focus groups

 

[mintylurb]

Focus testing did wonders for resistance 2..
Main character could be gaime for all I care but this has dinobots!

 

[tcrunch]

If it makes it easier to understand where the publishers are coming from can anyone name a AAA game with a female main character that didn't flop or had better than okay sales outside of lara croft. I honestly can't think of any.

They don't make many AAA games with female leads, so how would anybody know how well they do?

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think as gamers we should all be proud that our medium is ushering in gender diversity where the likes of Hollywood has even yet to break through over the last 100 years.

The new Supergirl, while it may be a good show in the end, is an embarrassment how they portray a female lead. Game of Thrones being an exception to the norm.

Edit: Added below due to Vita not having the best input interface to post.

I was going to add, while Hollywood attempts this, they have yet to have a Lara Croft like they do an Arnold Schwarzenegger. They will attempt to make a strong female action star, and it is usually a one and done, and she is back to making Comp Romps for her career.

Just shows that society still has a long way to go on how they view a woman lead. And gaming in it's infancy are breaking barriers at a much faster rate comparatively.

 

[NahaNago]

Did they 'flop' because the game were bad or because a 'woman made it bad'?

They don't make many AAA games with female leads, so how would anybody know how well they do?

does it really matter in the end how many there are or if the game is bad. If you see several games with female characters flopping would a company jump at the chance to make another game with a female character.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

stocky.. as in slightly fat or something? seemed thin to me but ok.

i dunno, the overall design just came off as tacky/silly, with the trinkets and fur and the hair and all. not pleasing to my eye, that's all. if there was a movie with a lead character like that i couldn't take it seriously. kind of a tasteless design, IMO.

I wouldn't say slightly fat, if she was I would have called her that. She looks like she's very strong and compact. Not an elegant flower with disproportionate ninja like skill/strength like a lot of current female leads. She actually (physically) seems well designed for her role is society.

 

[Dice//]

I think as gamers we should all be proud that our medium is ushering in gender diveristy where the likes of Hollywood has even yet to break through over the last 100 years.

The new Supergirl, while it may be a good show in the end, is an embarrassment how they portray a female lead. Game of Thrones being an exception to the norm.

Eeeeeh...some-...what?

I dunno, I think this is a bit simplified.
I do agree Hollywood is bad, but gaming still has a few hurdles, especially in the case that this topic actually exists.

 

[TatteredHat]

does it really matter in the end. If you see several games with female characters flopping would a company jump at the chance to make another game with a female character.

Ideally they'd do some actual analysis into whether or not the female leads were the cause of the flop, but yeah. Hopefully Horizon will live up to the hype, it could go either way at this point.

 

[Walpurgis]

If it makes it easier to understand where the publishers are coming from can anyone name a AAA game with a female main character that didn't flop or had better than okay sales outside of lara croft. I honestly can't think of any.

That's probably because you rarely get GOOD games with female protagonists and get crap like Remember Me. Then stupid publishers think "Remember Me sucked because the protagonist was female" when the game was just bad. This is the first time that a huge game that most people will actually want has a female protagonist. It was previously restricted to stuff like Beyond: Two Souls.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Eeeeeh...some-...what?

I dunno, I think this is a bit simplified.
I do agree Hollywood is bad, but gaming still has a few hurdles, especially in the case that this topic actually exists.

I have to add to it... I was typing on the Vita and that thing bugs out sometimes.

I was going to add, while Hollywood attempts this, they have yet to have a Lara Croft like they do an Arnold Schwarzenegger. They will attempt to make a strong female action star, and it is usually a one and done, and she is back to making Comp Romps for her career.

Just shows that society still has a long way to go on how they view a woman lead. And gaming in it's infancy are breaking barriers at a much faster rate comparatively.