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Visual wise this generation has been a disappointment, which is I have unrealistically high expectations for Spider-Man 2 graphically

It's as if people forget that there was (still is, really) a global pandemic that caused a lot of game dev to halt while wfh logistics were sorted out. That certainly didn't help things.

But I think this year and the next we will start to see more current gen software which takes advantage of the newer hardware.
 

hyperbertha

Member
PC games all have minimum specs well below 2070 developers need to account for. Sony can solely develop for the PS5 and get way more out of it than pretty much any PC port. I can't think of many PC games that hold a candle to The Last of US 2 or Horizon Forbidden West when it comes to graphics quality, both of which were developed on the PS4
Not anymore. Sony games are developed with pc in mind going forward.
 

hyperbertha

Member
I would say that TLOU2 and Forbidden West gameplay is fun, satisfying and complex by any reasonable standard. On top of that, it has fantastic audio-visual fidelity.
If you don't care about graphics, fine, but let's not start a back and forth about personally enjoyment of this game or that, especially when it just comes down to vibes.
Forbidden west has trash repetitive gameplay. What you on about?
 
Used to be until two years ago. Now they are all multi-platform games.

Part of the reason Sony do not do day 1 releases on PC alongside PS5 is the multiplatform targets. PS5 to PC requires more dev effort than Xbox and PC, it's often outsourced well into or after the PS console game dev cycle. MS/Xbox have a more streamlined development framework with regard to multiplat.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
I'm wondering.... have all the talented/ambitious/creative/visionary folks simply left the industry?

I'd say no. I think it is more an issue of cost and fears about the level of return. You have some developers (Nintendo and Sony first-party) that have marketing machines so strong that a certain level of success is almost guaranteed, but everyone else is struggling to get returns on the kind of games that would benefit from a big graphical jump. We are experiencing the block busterization of gaming, and it is having the same negative effects it did in film. You have your huge victories, but overall a larger portion of the overall pie is getting taken by a few titles every year. With everything else fighting for the rest, which leads to almost everything released having a "disappointing" result in the minds of the devs/publishers. The more that happens the more scared devs/publishers get about the future returns, wash, rinse, repeat.
 

Kikorin

Member
Unpopular opinion: x360/PS3 era has been the last gen where we've seen a generational leap. Sure, then we had insane improvement on lot of graphically aspects, but the "template" for games we are still playing today has been created that gen.

When we played something like Dead Rising or Gears of War on 360 was clear them would have never worked on PS2/GC/Xbox, now you can see games of this gen ported on Switch with playable results.

I don't think we can expect these kind of leaps ever again, but at this point average graphics is so good that I hope resources are used for other things like physics and interaction.
 

Celcius

°Temp. member
Has the OP not played Gran Turismo 7?
Though, with so many cross gen games, the PS5 does feel more like a PS4 Pro Pro at this point.
The biggest improvement of this gen seems to be the nvme ssd imho.
 
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I thought we were off to a decent start with Demon Souls (probably could be done on a PS4) and Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart (ray tracing, fur, clarity, tech), but the more games I see the more I am disappointed. I am talking pure visuals here. We arent even getting locked framerates lol. Horzon looked great as well, but I feel like I am still waiting for that next generation leap. Spider-Man 2 I think (hope) will be that game. Isnt releasing on PS4, will have raytracing, studio that has already produced a decent looking PS5 game, and the best selling first party game from PS4 guaranteeing an unreal budget/man power. Are my expectations too high? Man I don't even care if Spiderman 2 is 30fps only. Show me something.

Maybe ray tracing is a pain to implement and its eating resources? Certainly kills overhead on the PC without upscaling. Man I'll even take cartoony games. DokeV looks amazing but will no doubt be downgraded on consoles.
Spider-Man 2 will almost certainly be the best looking game of the generation so far and will 100% have all the same modes Spider-Man PS5 has (30fps w/RT + 40fps w/RT + 60fps w/RT with the dynamic resolution scaling to hit whatever fidelity mode is needed).

In technical terms Insomniac are the current gold standard.
 
shit! i just realize that, yes....i could see one of the latest Avatar movies could be the first feature length blockbuster movie to be in VR.

is the next logical step for James Cameron to rape-minds
I feel like it'd have to be VR-only though. Movies in VR can't do the constant action movie jump cuts without disorienting, so the cameras would need to be static for the most part, which would be boring to watch on a flat screen.

Or, if you gotta have a VR and flat-screen version, you're basically making two different movies
 

SHA

Member
Could you make a list before judging this console generation ? , haven't started yet and hogwarts doesn't count.
 

SF Kosmo

The Trigglypuff
Even beyond the usual diminishing returns that comes with each new generation of added fidelity, the slow transition to this gen from cross gen means we aren't going to get that holy shit moment the way we did in previous generations.

We do have games like Ratchet and Clank and Cyberpunk where you know you're playing something that couldn't really be done (well) on last gen. I have no doubt Spider-Man 2 will be one of those games. But there isn't going to be this clear "turning the page" moment.
 
Expectations should be based on what you see with your eyeballs. Hopes and wishes are something else.

Spider Man 2 will be awesome, but I'm expecting a similar jump to what we saw from Ratchet PS4 to Ratchet PS5.
 

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
OP:

bc853641-a70f-4359-9e44-6f13328699f1_text.gif
 
I feel like it'd have to be VR-only though. Movies in VR can't do the constant action movie jump cuts without disorienting, so the cameras would need to be static for the most part, which would be boring to watch on a flat screen.

Or, if you gotta have a VR and flat-screen version, you're basically making two different movies
avatar is already a fully 3D movie anyway
 
I pity those players who cannot simply enjoy games for what they are but for what they *could* be. They constantly make up scenarios where older or less powerful consoles are "robbing" gamers of some theoretical (or straight made up) visual treat and disguise their existential dissatisfaction under a thin veneer of scorn, which has sadly crept into every discussion online now. Pretty much every board is now full of whiny people whose expectations after purchasing a new console or the latest GPU are frankly bizarre and outlandish. I suspect they trust benchmarks or screenshots rather than using their eyes and judge the overall experience.
All the while the true answer lies in enlightened graphical design; "mandatory" RTX and 4k are not synonymous with appealing visuals and this will still hold true even when much more powerful hardware will be available, ten or twenty years from now.
To be a graphics whore is to live in eternal frustration chasing some platonic ideal of perfection. It's actually a great thing that this generation has seen an upsurge of 60fps games, gen6 onwards has been really painful to play due to the philosophy of maxing visuals over playability and fluidity.
 
What sucks is - not ONE game has released with the UE5 Nanite tech displayed years ago
You and everyone who liked your post need to understand better how game development works, and why suddenly switching your AAA game you’ve been developing on UE 4 since 2017/2018 to UE 5 and flipping on all of the switches, would be an absolutely horrible idea.
 
I suspect they trust benchmarks or screenshots rather than using their eyes and judge the overall experience.
It's one of the main things I've noticed is people are pretty much incapable of actually looking at something with their actual eyeballs and deciding for themselves what they are seeing. I mean that literally, which is why its so crazy. Then the game comes out and is exactly how it looked if you just looked at what was there instead of what you were told, and then they act surprised.
 

phant0m

Member
resolution really helps fidelity and we've been stuck for a long time. i've had a 1440p monitor for 10 years now, the only recent difference is higher refresh rates

consoles still can't push 4k without dropping frame rate or lower graphical flourishes.

in the 2000s we went from like 800x600 -> 1024x768 -> 1280x720 -> 1440x900 -> 1680x1050 -> 1920x1080

in the decade+ since we've gotten 1440p and 4K, and often still only make those pixel counts thanks to reconstruction or DLSS
 
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You know the Hellblade 2 gameplay looks next-gen when instead of giving credit to Ninja Theory, all people did here was try to rationalize why it looks that way.
"It's on rails".."it's so linear".."it's a vertical slice".."it's fake" "its one big cutscene" "its just QTE" etc.
All while simultaneously calling it 'downgraded' (whilst too good to be true?) from the announcement video...which the gameplay video literally has the same or better assets from.

Contrast that to when Ratchet & Clank Rift Aparts gameplay was shown..and people here went gaga over the obvious canned/on rails sections marketed as "jumping between dimensions in real time only possible using the PS5 SSD."
Nobody even questioned it...all disbelief was suspended until people started running the game with poverty SSD's..lol.
Outta sight outta mind, though.

This forum gives me a good laugh sometimes.
 

KXVXII9X

Member
I'm sorry but soooooo sick of whining about graphics in every fucking GAF thread and then you guys whine about why AAA games take so long to make.
I notice we have similar taste in games where it seems like the art direction and gameplay is the standout that pure graphical fidelity. Games like 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim, Hi-Fi Rush, Astral Chain, DecaPolice, Sifu, Guilty Gear Strive, most Nintendo first party titles, Ori and the Will of the Wisps all look beautiful while not chasing photorealism. I don't think the AA space or low-end AAA space gets enough credit. I think these games are smarter where they spend their resources. It was sad in the latest Nintendo Direct how much some of the games shown were discarded because they weren't realistic enough.
 

SNG32

Member
You got to look at how long it takes to make these games now with high visuals and also the budget. This is why PC has been considered with Sony and Microsoft because at the end of the day what’s the point of developing games with high graphics when the sales don’t match the budget. That’s why we get games like last of us towards the end of the gen so there is a bigger user base to cover the cost.
 
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hyperbertha

Member
I notice we have similar taste in games where it seems like the art direction and gameplay is the standout that pure graphical fidelity. Games like 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim, Hi-Fi Rush, Astral Chain, DecaPolice, Sifu, Guilty Gear Strive, most Nintendo first party titles, Ori and the Will of the Wisps all look beautiful while not chasing photorealism. I don't think the AA space or low-end AAA space gets enough credit. I think these games are smarter where they spend their resources. It was sad in the latest Nintendo Direct how much some of the games shown were discarded because they weren't realistic enough.
I'm okay with a game looking like gravity rush or fire emblem. The art style is beautiful, but when a game tries to emulate realism, but ends up looking ugly doing it, like forespoken, then i start getting angry. I mean this is 2023. Why do ps5 games still have basic issues like ambient occlusion, horrible lighting, lack of self shadowing, low polycount characters models etc while in gameplay? Its absolutely a legitimate point to get frustrated about.
 

hyperbertha

Member
i had no idea people think spiderman 2 is going to be some visual masterpiece..
Agreed. All they've shown so far is an in-engine trailer that looks worse than most in-engine trailers. Compare hellblade 2 in-engine vs in-game. I don't understand how people get fooled still in 2023 about this stuff. Insomniac is a decent developer. They ARE NOT Crytek.
 

ckaneo

Member
You know the Hellblade 2 gameplay looks next-gen when instead of giving credit to Ninja Theory, all people did here was try to rationalize why it looks that way.
"It's on rails".."it's so linear".."it's a vertical slice".."it's fake" "its one big cutscene" "its just QTE" etc.
All while simultaneously calling it 'downgraded' (whilst too good to be true?) from the announcement video...which the gameplay video literally has the same or better assets from.

Contrast that to when Ratchet & Clank Rift Aparts gameplay was shown..and people here went gaga over the obvious canned/on rails sections marketed as "jumping between dimensions in real time only possible using the PS5 SSD."
Nobody even questioned it...all disbelief was suspended until people started running the game with poverty SSD's..lol.
Outta sight outta mind, though.

This forum gives me a good laugh sometimes.
Actually, I think you are right. HellBlade does certainly look next gen.

And Ratchet and Clank SSD stuff was meh.

I just trust Spiderman to release this year or early next year. I dont know anything about Hellblade coming out
 

Paulxo87

Member
They already showed you what Spiderman 2 looks like. The trailer is what you can expect - It was real time in engine footage that they showed over a year ago. Also - the little playstation teaser commercial with 3 seconds of footage that just came out the other week... that was in engine too
 

Woggleman

Member
ND are not going to blow their load on a remake of a ten year old game that is meant to capitalize on a TV series. They did a great job but they were working with ten year old material. Their first proper new game will impress.

I understand why games were cross gen for the past few years because of supply issues regarding the PS5 and Series X but now it is time to cut the cord and really let these new consoles sing.
 
I’ve been really impressed actually. The push to more 60 fps games is great and has added new life into old games with patches which is great. I look at something like hogwarts and it looks incredible to me, and pretty much locked at 60 fps.

The stuff in psvr2 looks incredible too

I guess I just have different expectations than some folks. Pretty good time in gaming imo. Not everything is perfect but I think it is ok.
 

Kataploom

Member
Nope. You should be demanding both. There’s no reason a game can’t look amazing and play just as good. Certain devs know how to provide both. Others completely ignore one for the other.

It’s time we start being louder when we don’t get both.
What if one only care about an appealing art direction considering graphics tech is good enough? I don't care that much about realistic graphics, they look too uncanny valley-y to me now that they are very realistic "but not quite yet".

The problem OP is facing is the diminishing return of the industry by pursuing more for the sake of more, just too appeal to those that feel the need of constant short term stimulus or impressions in order to enjoy something... That is: Budget and human resources.

The tech is there, but it's gotten unsustainable even for biggest publishers to keep pushing for more and more of everything due how much all of that cost.
 

Represent.

Banned
And yet so called high tech graphics didn’t help me enjoy games like TLOU 2 or Horizon, meanwhile I enjoyed the crap out of games like Sekiro, Elden Ring and other FROM games even without the “high tech graphics”.
You dont think you would have enjoyed Sekiro even more had it looked like a next gen title? It would objectively heighten the experience.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
You dont think you would have enjoyed Sekiro even more had it looked like a next gen title? It would objectively heighten the experience.
By "next gen" you mean make it more realistic, I would say no thanks.

In fact I was not at all fan of what Bluepoint did with enemy/boss designs in Demons Souls visuals. I take FROM's visual design over so called "next gen" any day.
 
Performance and interactivity over graphics. I'd rather have an interactive world with plenty of simulations and physics happening rather than a static world for the sake of pushing visuals.
I’d honestly be fine with this - but where is it? If anything shit seems less interactive, less physics sim stuff as well
 
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