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[Moray]

nobody is doubting that there is no accountability for the most part on the web, which leads to plenty of douchebaggery. What we are doubting is how that is somehow destructive to society as a whole, and, on a smaller scale, can hurt the perception and sales of a videogame.

Think about how much internet and such has affected our society... compare the amount of time people spend on GAF or Facebook to the (supposed) amount time people spent socializing in more personal ways earlier in the century. We're becoming plugged in, Matrix or Wall-E style. The lack of accountability in the plugged-in world is changing the way we communicate.

 

[Fidget]

I'm sorry Denis, but I have to call BS on your post being some grand social experiment.
This smacked entirely of a large philosophical smoke screen to obfuscate your moment of weakness and frustration which resulted in a foolish post which you simply can't man up and admit to.

However, if it -was- a social experiment, then shame on you for risking the credibility and sales of your game (and thus the reputation and potential pay of those working on the title) for your own little experiment and personal gratification.

 

[neojubei]

Garnett am the new mangod.

"I bet you 50 bucks we don't see the second game in the trilogy" :lol

Dude just is totally honest and totally awesome. And I can't not love someone who hums Aerosmith on a podcast.

GARNETT, STAND AND BE RECOGNIZED

Yea I agree Garnett was pretty awesome in this podcast.

 

[Moray]

I'm sorry Denis, but I have to call BS on your post being some grand social experiment.
This smacked entirely of a large philosophical smoke screen to obfuscate your moment of weakness and frustration which resulted in a foolish post which you simply can't man up and admit to.

However, if it -was- a social experiment, then shame on you for risking the credibility and sales of your game (and thus the reputation and potential pay of those working on the title) for your own little experiment and personal gratification.

I do think it's a bit of a coverup, but an interesting discussion nonetheless.

And would you really say "shame on you" to Dennis Dyack in person? I think you're proving his points.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Yea I agree Garnett was pretty awesome in this podcast.

i just wish they would have brought that stuff up (and kept John around to discuss his impressions of the ACTUAL FUCKING GAME) w/ Denis there instead of treating him with kid gloves (cept for Garnett) and letting him filibuster with shit nobody understood.

 

[Operations]

We're becoming plugged in, Matrix or Wall-E style. The lack of accountability in the plugged-in world is changing the way we communicate.

Maybe so, but certainly does not change how a game is received, critically-wise. Quality is still the most determinant factor, and GAF nor any other Internet body have more weight than that. If the game is really good, Dyack has nothing to fear, his game will speak even louder than him.

 

[GameGamer]

"The guy next to me is wearing a baseball cap indoors! And backwards!"

 

[Kittonwy]

LMAO.

 

[Fidget]

I do think it's a bit of a coverup, but an interesting discussion nonetheless.

And would you really say "shame on you" to Dennis Dyack in person? I think you're proving his points.

Absolutely, because my comment isn't an insult its a point of contention which basically calls him out on his actions.

And you are correct it is an interesting discussion and it does have some good points but it seems like its mostly all constructed as a soap box for him to rant about his unhappiness about this forum.

 

[behem0th x]

I agree with you. I guess my point is not necessarily placing the blame on Gaf (cause I love Gaf)- I wouldnt change Gaf for a second... my post is just saying Gaf is what it is, and it is influential to people that are influential to the industry- true alot of people who buy games dont know about Neogaf, but they may have read an article about a game from someone who frequents neogaf or asked game purchasing advice from a Gamestop employee that trolls Neogaf or knows someone who knows someone who read how shitty the game was on the internet....

also, Dyack seems to be making a game for hardcore gamers (epic loots, skill trees are not buzz words in the casual industry) and I think the mindset of gamers on sites like neogaf are gonna make or break this game in particular.

Then would it make sense to come to this site to try all this holier than though stuff while being a hypocrite on several points, insulting people, and then when it's all said and done go on a podcast and try and pretend that he came to this site for other reasons than to feed his ego? social experiment my ass, it's him trying to reclaim superiority over us sheep on a bigger level. He's going for the 'Dyack owns Gaf!' but somehow still missed that.

Trying to look down on the people as a self imposed mangod, that will ultimately decide whether your company does ports for the next 10 years or whether you get to do a sequel or a new IP, is not the way to get people interested in the game... especially a game that is in such a hit/miss genre to begin with.

btw., people that downplay anonymity on the internet always point to the negatives and don't point to the positive points. i think people are more truthful with what they say... if they just happen to be a deuche, then you'll definitely feel more of that but that is only pointing to a small percentage which you recall as opposed to tons of other people that are civil that people gloss over. people think just because people type stuff on the internet that they wouldn't say it in real-life, well... i've got news for you, they would say it, you just wouldn't hear it unless you were there or with their group of friends that they say it to... not being confrontational is not the same as not having a valid opinion.

 

[Moray]

Maybe so, but certainly does not change how a game is received, critically-wise. Quality is still the most determinant factor, and GAF nor any other Internet body have more weight than that. If the game is really good, Dyack has nothing to fear, his game will speak even louder than him.

Well I will personally admit to being very much influenced by peoples' opinions on games, especially on GAF. If the general consensus on GAF is that a game sucks I'll be less likely to check it out. But what he's saying is that stinks because the groupthink/lack of accountability/viral marketing/fanboyism can really make false information about a game seem true and ultimately affect our purchasing decisions. This is contrary to the old way of renting games you were interested in or reading about them in objective, edited magazines or word-of-mouth from friends you know in real life. Message boards are starting to take that stuff away.

 

[neojubei]

i just wish they would have brought that stuff up (and kept John around to discuss his impressions of the ACTUAL FUCKING GAME) w/ Denis there instead of treating him with kid gloves (cept for Garnett) and letting him filibuster with shit nobody understood.

They should have kept John and brought in Shawn Elliot. I am usually not a big fan of Shawn, but reading a lot of his blogs, especially the Dyack one I can see why people want him on 1up yours, he would call out Dyack and Shane on their crap.

Is it me or does Shane flip flop a lot, he agrees with Dyack about metacritic but in the last podcast asks Phil why he bought Operation Darkness because the metacritic score was low. Then Shane talks about the "hive metalitiy of gaming forums" but were does Shane gets his opinion of games from gamers from? yup, message boards.

I honestly think Shane's glowing preview in EGM a while ago was probably influenced by Dyack than the actual game Shane played.

 

[Snowden]

Is it me or does Shane flip flop a lot

just a bit

 

[Twig]

And would you really say "shame on you" to Dennis Dyack in person?

Why wouldn't he?

Seriously, give me one good reason. I personally wouldn't have any problem saying that to him in person. He's made some serious judgment issues and needs to recognize that fact.

Ironically, this is one case where he needs to take what he sees on the internet seriously. Because it's so, so true.

 

[Moray]

Why wouldn't he?

Seriously, give me one good reason. I personally wouldn't have any problem saying that to him in person. He's made some serious judgment issues and needs to recognize that fact.

Ironically, this is one case where he needs to take what he sees on the internet seriously. Because it's so, so true.

"Shame on you" is what my Grandma said to me when my parents busted me looking at porn. I just don't see anyone saying that in an in-person debate that's ultimately about video games .

 

[HiroProtagonist]

They should have kept John and brought in Shawn Elliot. I am usually not a big fan of Shawn, but reading a lot of his blogs, especially the Dyack one I can see why people want him on 1up yours, he would call out Dyack and Shane on their crap.

Is it me or does Shane flip flop a lot, he agrees with Dyack about metacritic but in the last podcast asks Phil why he bought Operation Darkness because the metacritic score was low. Then Shane talks about the "hive metalitiy of gaming forums" but were does Shane gets his opinion of games from gamers from? yup, message boards.

I honestly think Shane's glowing preview in EGM a while ago was probably influenced by Dyack than the actual game Shane played.

I read and enjoyed Shawns blog post, but I can't imagine him being anymore effective in the moment than Garnett. Shawn wasn't there to be ambushed by the crazy rantings, he had the benefit of time to suss over the mile-a-minute jabberings after the fact. I'm not saying he wouldn't of helped, but I think the potential is being overstated.

I don't even really know what to think about Shane obvious disgust with GAF. Like Garnett mentioned, the 'industry obsessed' portion of the gaming public may be diminishing in importance to developers, but we are still the ones who subscribe to EGM, listen to gaming podcasts, and read 1up. Denis has the luxury of alienating us, but does Shane? He probably doesn't care, and is looking to land a job with SK like Luke did with Bungie. To that end, I wish him the very best of luck.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I read and enjoyed Shawns blog post, but I can't imagine him being anymore effective in the moment than Garnett. Shawn wasn't there to be ambushed by the crazy rantings, he had the benefit of time to suss over the mile-a-minute jabberings after the fact. I'm not saying he wouldn't of helped, but I think the potential is being overstated.

I don't even really know what to think about Shane obvious disgust with GAF. Like Garnett mentioned, the 'industry obsessed' portion of the gaming public may be diminishing in importance to developers, but we are still the ones who subscribe to EGM, listen to gaming podcasts, and read 1up. Denis has the luxury of alienating us, but does Shane? He probably doesn't care, and is looking to land a job with SK like Luke did with Bungie. To that end, I wish him the very best of luck.

Shawn seems more likely to call people out on the spot. Look at last weeks 1up Yours where Garnett was talking about the latest Call of Duty and started saying how the pacific theatre was a lot more brutal-Shawn immediately jumped in and started giving him a history lesson leaving Garnett to backtrack his statements.

 

[JimtotheHum]

I disagree... is there any chance Hush Puppies became popular by their own merit? I'd think so, unless you somehow think that everyone that buys Hushpuppies knows anything about that club... I'm pretty sure they bought whatever because they personally liked it. \

The book in particular that Im talking about presupposes that the idea or product is a good one and has merit- it just talks about why some good ideas really take off and others dont-

My personal feeling, just listening and watching the videos and preview is that, Too Human may end up being a mixed bag with plenty of aspects that people will use to praise or rip on the game. Im personally waiting for the 1up, gamespot, and IGN reviews like I always do on games that I am on the fence on.

My posts arent necessary defending the actions of Denis Dyack, the guy has got alot of ideas that, when he speaks, he seems to be all over the place. Some of these ideas I agree with, some I dont. Even the people that seem to hate him, secretly enjoy when he speaks because it makes one hell of a Neogaf thread (ie some of the best gifs and pics ive seen in a while)

 

[LCfiner]

I read and enjoyed Shawns blog post, but I can't imagine him being anymore effective in the moment than Garnett. Shawn wasn't there to be ambushed by the crazy rantings, he had the benefit of time to suss over the mile-a-minute jabberings after the fact. I'm not saying he wouldn't of helped, but I think the potential is being overstated.

I don't even really know what to think about Shane obvious disgust with GAF. Like Garnett mentioned, the 'industry obsessed' portion of the gaming public may be diminishing in importance to developers, but we are still the ones who subscribe to EGM, listen to gaming podcasts, and read 1up. Denis has the luxury of alienating us, but does Shane? He probably doesn't care, and is looking to land a job with SK like Luke did with Bungie. To that end, I wish him the very best of luck.

Honestly, I'm GLAD that Dyack had an open mike with only minimal pushback from Garnett.

It allowed him to dig his hole even deeper. Cutting him off would have denied us his glorious ramblings that we can now pick apart in detail.

 

[just tray]

Doesn't Too Human come out around the same time as Viva Pinata 2?
I would be more worried about explaining to Microsoft why my game will be outsold by a bunch of puppets than talking about NeoGaf takeover conspiracies.

 

[Slavik81]

Am I too late to ask what Denis Dyack's contribution to society is?

And would you really say "shame on you" to Dennis Dyack in person? I think you're proving his points.

Most people wouldn't. They would think it, but would never say it because it's not polite.
Thank god that on the internet the truth is said, polite or not.

 

[Azih]

Your attitude certainly seems to be one that dissenting opinon (in this case, mine) is wrongup.

ONE dissenting opinion? Who the hell said anything about ONE dissenting opinion. There were plenty, PLENTY of people who were excited about Too Human on GAF. That Dyack's incessant moronic blathering is dwindling those numbers is his own damn fault. *THAT* is what I said. ONE dissenting opinion? Are you reduced to putting words in my mouth in an attempt to salvage your point?

If this place was any haven of groupthink then discussions here wouldn't be so damn heated. Your initial assumptions do not hold at all. This place is full of defenders and critics on most every freaking game/topic.

 

[avatar299]

After listening to that I'm going to make a genuine effort to not be an ass online and also to not be judgmental about a game until I get a change to play it. Good discussion.

no you won't

 

[Twig]

"Shame on you" is what my Grandma said to me when my parents busted me looking at porn. I just don't see anyone saying that in an in-person debate that's ultimately about video games .

Well, yeah, I don't think anyone would use those exact words.

But I see no reason why one couldn't say essentially the same thing in different words.

 

[EviLore]

Phew, took a good 4 hours or so to reread the whole thing and take care of business. Final tally:

32 bans
-6 permabans
-61 cumulative months of temporary bans

I strongly suggest refraining from comments like:

Neogaf is a nightmare, a cesspool of immaturity in all forms

the moderation of NeoGAF is at best inconsistent and at worse incredibly hypocritical. Bannings seem to be more based around mood swings than any consistent policies, and many moderators can act as childish as the masses they are supposed to be moderating

neogaf is a haven for mouthbreathing halfwits

if you want to continue posting here.


For those paying attention to this thread for the first time, my "official" response to Denis Dyack's podcast rant is here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11827869&postcount=1021


BishopTL's personal experiences as a game developer (and GAF admin) with regards to how his game was treated here:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11830517&postcount=1375
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11830629&postcount=1393


Mark reacts to what could be considered the end result of his honest preview of Too Human back in the day:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11824791&postcount=319


As for the rest, well, you'll just have to read the 2500 posts yourself.