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EGM/1UP steals the blood and sweat of hardcore gamers?

D

demi

Member
TekunoRobby said:
I think the respect flows both ways, I'm sure if someone robbed from Kikizo and it made the headlines people would still react the same.
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Not really, Kikizo can fuck off for all I care.






























What's Kikizo?
 
M

MarkMacD

Member
f_elz said:
I don't think 1up/EGM copied the sites guide. We shall see.
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Can I ask why everyone refers to it as 1up/EGM? As far as I know EGM didn't have anything to do with this, any more than OPM or OXM for that matter.

As for 1up, don't worry--this will be sorted out and addressed.
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
The Faceless Master said:
it's like you really didn't read the most disputed parts... the crux isn't the moves and abilities etc, it's the in-depth way the system was broken down, and the way the paragraphs were rewritten sentence for sentence... there are a bazillion ways someone could have completely rewritten the text without drawing any suspicion, paragraph for paragraph, sentence for sentence isn't one of them...
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Really? A bazillion? Someone posted one of the more "egregious" examples, I didn't see it late last night when I was punchy as hell, and I don't see it this morning. If that loose a standard were applied to newspapers, we'd have editorial desks sniping at each other left and right and nothing would ever get written.

But 1UP is right in taking it down temporarily until things are verified.
 
G

GitarooMan

Member
Matlock said:
I feel the pattern (note post 74) is good enough for any reasonable person to doubt the lack of some sort of plagiarism.
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Yeah, I definitely see the similarities in writing, just wanted to clarify that difference. Sometimes in things like strategy guides it can be hard to really do things very differently because the content is pretty much all facts. Here though it looks like the writing is very similar, so it's pretty bad. We'll see how it shakes out.
 
T

Tony HoTT

Banned
The Faceless Master said:
it's like you really didn't read the most disputed parts... the crux isn't the moves and abilities etc, it's the in-depth way the system was broken down, and the way the paragraphs were rewritten sentence for sentence... there are a bazillion ways someone could have completely rewritten the text without drawing any suspicion, paragraph for paragraph, sentence for sentence isn't one of them...
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Yeah but dood, you failed to mention the real 9 victims at FX4...
 
M

Monk

Banned
The Faceless Master said:
it's like you really didn't read the most disputed parts... the crux isn't the moves and abilities etc, it's the in-depth way the system was broken down, and the way the paragraphs were rewritten sentence for sentence... there are a bazillion ways someone could have completely rewritten the text without drawing any suspicion, paragraph for paragraph, sentence for sentence isn't one of them...
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Yep this is the point. Waychel has made a good point though. Maybe the guy didn't understand the concept of plagarism in the industry. It isn't like he did a university course on journalism etc. where they teach you this stuff.
 
A

AirBrian

Member
Monk said:
Yep this is the point. Waychel has made a good point though. Maybe the guy didn't understand the concept of plagarism in the industry. It isn't like he did a university course on journalism etc. where they teach you this stuff.
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Plagarism is taught in high-school. Even outside of that, I would think most people understand copying something and taking credit for it is a bad thing.
 
V

Vennt

Unconfirmed Member
Monk said:
Yep this is the point. Waychel has made a good point though. Maybe the guy didn't understand the concept of plagarism in the industry. It isn't like he did a university course on journalism etc. where they teach you this stuff.
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If the 1st reply at Slashdot has any truth to it, I'd say he didn't need to understand anything :p

Slashdot response said:
I interviewed at 1up recently, and when I brought up the subject of game "journalism" the guys just laughed it off. They said, basically, that they're in the business to make money, and that the editorial wall of old-guard journalism doesn't apply.
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:lol
 
M

Monk

Banned
AirBrian said:
Plagarism is taught in high-school. Even outside of that, I would think most people understand copying something and taking credit for it is a bad thing.
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But in high school it is done in a very vague way. What he did if you were in high school wouldnt get to detention for plagarism or anything. In Universities, a direct copy and paste without citation or any other referencing is taboo and can get you kicked out of university.
 
J

Joseph Merrick

Member
The Faceless Master said:
it's like you really didn't read the most disputed parts... the crux isn't the moves and abilities etc, it's the in-depth way the system was broken down, and the way the paragraphs were rewritten sentence for sentence... there are a bazillion ways someone could have completely rewritten the text without drawing any suspicion, paragraph for paragraph, sentence for sentence isn't one of them...
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Heheh. Yeah, his post history in this thread is great. This is what it read like to me; writing out that one line, then being quiet while people explain that that isn't really the issue, and then jumping back in with the same line of thought as in the previous posts again once someone new to the thread make their first comment. Pretty funny.

Hehe. I'm a jerk. In addition, third person reference like this isn't very nice. Heh.
 
A

AirBrian

Member
Monk said:
But in high school it is done in a very vague way. What he did if you were in high school wouldnt get to detention for plagarism or anything. In Universities, a direct copy and paste without citation or any other referencing is taboo and can get you kicked out of university.
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High schools take plagarism very seriously as well, but you're right, not "kicked out" serious. We're getting off-topic though. My point is: just because one is ignorant of the law does not excuse him/her from it.
 
S

Shinobi

Member
SnowWolf said:
Does anybody find this ironic considering EGM/1up has been all gung-ho lately about pointing fingers at other publications' shady business? :lol
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68.jpg








Monk said:
Uh, geez, i looked a couple of examples. It looks like he found the guide checked it for himself and wrote in down in his own words. That isnt plagarism. It isnt even copy and paste with a few words moved around.

But a reference should have been cited though as links to "additional information" imo.


EDIT: *sees paragraph on evasion* Takes back what he said. Fire his ass.
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:lol You can almost vision the figurative 180 there.






Blazyr said:
Despite the respect you all typically accord Che, it seems no one is paying an ounce of attention to him here. Whatever conspiracy theory you may wish to indulge in, the simple fact is that Richard sat there hammering away at this game for hours. Having seen that with my own eyes I take that as much more compelling "evidence" than similarities between forum posts and the guide.
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That's the weakest excuse for evidence I've ever heard.

I could have a thousand people witness seeing me play Gran Turismo 4 for 10 hours, then go home, do a newsgroup search for GT4 reviews, take it's words, re-arrange them, add some of my own words to fatten it up, and call it my own. The idea of saying that someone who played the game obviously couldn't have plaugerized a strategy guide is laughably weak...if that's the best defense you've got, you might as well not bother.





C- Warrior said:
Next 1up show should be a trial regarding Richard's true motives with the guide. CSI style.

Che can be the judge, jury, and executionar.
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We need Jack Bauer to interrogate him. Or Chuck Norris.





Mitleid said:
A lot of this premature response really strikes me as...unprofessional?
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Since an unprofessional act possibly started this shit in the first place, I see it as a wash.






Vennt said:
:lol

Translation:

"This past weekend 1UP was caught plagiarizing the work of some of the members of the DOA Central community, This is a matter we didn't expect to be called out on, we'd have ignored it but it made it to Slashdot (bugger!) and consequently we have pulled the guide from the site until the heat dies down and you all go back to bitching about something else. We'd come up with a better excuse but what's the point.

We're currently laughing our asses off here at the fury caused and will republish the guide when we've juggled a few words about and your attention is on something else."
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:lol






Monk said:
Yep this is the point. Waychel has made a good point though. Maybe the guy didn't understand the concept of plagarism in the industry. It isn't like he did a university course on journalism etc. where they teach you this stuff.
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Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Technically nobody taught me that arson is wrong*, but you don't have to be a brainiac to know this.

*And no, Smokey the bear doesn't count.

Hopefully this is resolved in a satisfactory manner for all parties. As much as this soap opera has amused me, I'm not really interested in seeing ANYONE losing their livelihood, particularly if it's indeed just an innocent mistake.

But, yeah...shit like this is why the term "gaming journalism" will always make me chuckle. I don't expect things to get better anytime soon.
 
T

Tony HoTT

Banned
Monk said:
But in high school it is done in a very vague way. What he did if you were in high school wouldnt get to detention for plagarism or anything. In Universities, a direct copy and paste without citation or any other referencing is taboo and can get you kicked out of university.
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It's not just copy and pasting. If you use any idea that's not your own you get in trouble. It doesn't matter if you paraphrase or reword anything.
 
Y

YeOldSage

Member
The Faceless Master said:
postcount +1
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Maybe I don't provide a link because I don't want E-DICKS such as yourself mucking the place up. Newsflash: Maybe I simply don't want to be "graced" with your pretentious presence over at FX4. What ,with your huge postcount and all, that can knock over lamps (we only have nine lamps at FX4)!
 
S

shantyman

WHO DEY!?
miyuru said:
You people are fucking ridiculous. Do you have any sense of professionalism at all? Really, your argument is like that of some 12-year-old. For fuck's sake, people wonder why videogame journalism isn't taken more seriously - it's dumbfucks like you. I'm surprised Che even defended Richard on the basis that he played the game hardcore for a week and a half. It's a MOOT point. Look at the comparisons above in this thread - they clearly show definite similarities between both guides. If Richard had never seen that guide on DOACentral, the guide would be completely different. GameFAQs and the people who voluntarily submit guides over there are more credible than your writer.

Bottomline is, he didn't reference at all. No credit given at all. You guys at 1UP have a great site, and everyone makes mistakes - I don't expect you to babysit this guy while he's writing up his guide. But the fact that you're even defending him, in light of the blatant plagiarism - that drives me insane.
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Amen to this post. What a joke, especially in light of the Hsu rant on this type of thing. Videogame journalism is a cesspool, and there is nothing to indicate it will rise above that any time soon.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
YeOldSage said:
Maybe I don't provide a link because I don't want E-DICKS such as yourself mucking the place up. Newsflash: Maybe I simply don't want to be "graced" with your pretentious presence over at FX4. What ,with your huge postcount and all, that can knock over lamps (we only have nine lamps at FX4)!
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or maybe you're just making it up...

but the absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence, right?
 
X

xsarien

daedsiluap
YeOldSage said:
Maybe I don't provide a link because I don't want E-DICKS such as yourself mucking the place up. Newsflash: Maybe I simply don't want to be "graced" with your pretentious presence over at FX4. What ,with your huge postcount and all, that can knock over lamps (we only have nine lamps at FX4)!
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That's okay, we prefer magazine racks.
 
B

bdoughty

Banned
chespace said:
How much you wanna bet? $50 bucks?
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Will it be an actual $50 or something you have Richard Li print out? Someting he just happens to run across on the internet while researching Ulysses S. Grant for a future Civil war game you guys are covering? If you can provide verification from a mint on it's authenticity then sure I am game.
 
C

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
bdoughty said:
Will it be an actual $50 or something you have Richard Li print out? Someting he just happens to run across on the internet while researching Ulysses S. Grant for a future Civil war game you guys are covering? If you can provide verification from a mint on it's authenticity then sure I am game.
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It'll be $50 verified by the blood and sweat of hardcore gamers.
 
G

Goreomedy

Console Market Analyst
chespace said:
I have no plans to "cover up" Richard's DOA4 guide by removing it or anything like that. If an apology is in order, or due credits need to be given, they will be and the feature will be appended.
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So, are we all pitching in a portion of the $50? I'll contribute a $15 EA.com coupon they sent me for my birthday!
 
C

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
Goreomedy said:
"I have no plans to "cover up" Richard's DOA4 guide by removing it or anything like that. If an apology is in order, or due credits need to be given, they will be and the feature will be appended."

So, are we all pitching in a portion of the $50? I'll contribute a $15 EA.com coupon they sent me for my birthday!
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Right now, we're trying to contact the folks at DOA Central. If they'll let us re-publish the guide with proper credits and links, then yay, we get to do so. If they rather we didn't because this whole thing has left a bad taste in their mouth, then we shall respect those wishes too.

Either way, we WILL address this and issue forth a public resolution. And at which point, I will gladly accept a check and/or paypal from bdoughty for $50. :)
 
Y

YeOldSage

Member
chespace said:
It'll be $50 verified by the blood and sweat of hardcore gamers.
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HAHAHAHAHAAHAHA at the hardcore gamers comment. This is DOA we're talking about, if anything, they're hardcore lamers. EDIT: Who stole copies of DOA out of my store (Dorks at DOACENTRAL), and plagiarized me two days later.
 
B

bdoughty

Banned
chespace said:
Right now, we're trying to contact the folks at DOA Central. If they'll let us re-publish the guide with proper credits and links, then yay, we get to do so. If they rather we didn't because this whole thing has left a bad taste in their mouth, then we shall respect those wishes too.

Either way, we WILL address this and issue forth a public resolution.
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Here is a thought. Take that $50 you are so willing to wager and mail it to the author of the text you "re-published!" Maybe throw in a thank you card and some smarties?
 
C

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
bdoughty said:
Here is a thought. Take that $50 you are so willing to wager and mail it to the author of the text you "re-published!" Maybe throw in a thank you card and some smarties?
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Here's another thought: why don't I stay the fuck away from GAF so I can get some work done.
 
L

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
Damn, lay off of Che. It's not as if he was sitting in a dark room filled with cigarette smoke and giving orders to Richard via his super villain communicator to rip off DOA Central.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
MarkMacD said:
Can I ask why everyone refers to it as 1up/EGM? As far as I know EGM didn't have anything to do with this, any more than OPM or OXM for that matter.

As for 1up, don't worry--this will be sorted out and addressed.
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but where does one end and the other begin?

the ownership/cross promotion/staff sharing blurs everything.

and what about all those other times when EGM blatantly copied and pasted fighting game guides from the internet (with no credit) into their magazine?

the fighting game community hasn't just died and forgotten the legacy of EGM you know...
 
K

krypt0nian

Banned
bdoughty said:
Here is a thought. Take that $50 you are so willing to wager and mail it to the author of the text you "re-published!" Maybe throw in a thank you card and some smarties?
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WTF is up with attacking che?
 
J

Juice

Member
Vennt said:
:lol

Translation:

"This past weekend 1UP was caught plagiarizing the work of some of the members of the DOA Central community, This is a matter we didn't expect to be called out on, we'd have ignored it but it made it to Slashdot (bugger!) and consequently we have pulled the guide from the site until the heat dies down and you all go back to bitching about something else. We'd come up with a better excuse but what's the point.

We're currently laughing our asses off here at the fury caused and will republish the guide when we've juggled a few words about and your attention is on something else."
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:D :D :D Oh, that was slick.

Hell, I don't think Sp-ng was ever caught plagiarizing. Maybe GAF should stop allowing links to 1Up, too?
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
krypt0nian said:
WTF is up with attacking che?
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just a guess on my part, but it might be this
chespace said:
Okay, well.

I'm not exactly sure what our strategy guide writer Richard Li's methodology was when he wrote the DOA4 feature but I know for a fact that it wasn't straight "plagarism." Maybe his research started at the fansite level (where he might have found a list of moves folks were discussing a lot), but I sat with him for a week and a half while he went through every character and tried to discover move properties and effectiveness in actual matches. And he took a ton of notes. And he also got pretty good at the game as a result.

Did he look at DOA Central? Probably. Did he straight lift VirtuaPai's strat? Fuck no.

As for the forumites on DOAC... their reaction to my DOA4 score is totally expected... isn't it? :)
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people read that, and looked at the examples and wondered if che was looking at the same thing as them...
 
K

krypt0nian

Banned
The Faceless Master said:
just a guess on my part, but it might be this

people read that, and looked at the examples and wondered if che was looking at the same thing as them...
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No no I read that. But attacking him outright was uncalled for.
 
E

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
chespace said:
Right now, we're trying to contact the folks at DOA Central. If they'll let us re-publish the guide with proper credits and links, then yay, we get to do so. If they rather we didn't because this whole thing has left a bad taste in their mouth, then we shall respect those wishes too.

Either way, we WILL address this and issue forth a public resolution. And at which point, I will gladly accept a check and/or paypal from bdoughty for $50. :)
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Cool.
 
B

bdoughty

Banned
krypt0nian said:
WTF is up with attacking che?
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He brought up the monetary bet with me. I never mentioned Che specifically before that. I just threw out an idea of forwarding it to the original author for his efforts.
 
R

Ronok

Member
I have no plans to "cover up" Richard's DOA4 guide by removing it or anything like that.
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This is a matter we take very seriously, and consequently we have pulled the guide from the site
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Dum dum duummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

Edit: *sigh* Che posted before me... To slow is me......
 
D

drumlord

Member
Lost Fragment said:
Damn, lay off of Che. It's not as if he was sitting in a dark room filled with cigarette smoke and giving orders to Richard via his super villain communicator to rip off DOA Central.
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Yes, Che is the Dr. No of 1up, sitting behind a white screen stroking his pussycat issuing particularly evil orders of plagiarism. Perhaps for a future 1up show? The gift giving episode shows Che's knack for office eeeevil. :D
 
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