metalslimer
Member
Yeah as much as I actually like this season season 2 was a masterpiece
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hannibal S3 |OT| Man Destroys God. Hannibal Eats Man. Hannibal Inherits The Earth.
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
metalslimer
Member
Oh my god
Oh my god
Oh my god
Spike Spiegel
Member
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!
Spike Spiegel
Member
LOL @ Hannibal, of course he did.
metalslimer
Member
Dragon scenes were good. Rest of the episode felt kind of off. Pumped for the finale though.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Chilton looks like a fucking monster
He did so well in that scene. Jesus his scream
He did so well in that scene. Jesus his scream
I really don't understand all the negative reactions to this episode from the Thursday reactions, or the general negative thoughts on the Red Dragon arc. I thought it was a great episode, and they are killing this final arc. I'll post more thoughts on this and the last few episodes in the next couple days.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Yeah I'm loving this show as much as I ever have. I would be a lot more enthusiastic if I didn't know what basically was going to happen (tonight would have a huge deal), but that's no fault of Fuller's.
Looking forward to being blown to hell by the finale.
It just felt like not much happened. The Lounds (now Chilton) affair didn't warrant an entire episode. But since that happened, I was left disappointed, expecting more. And Reba's appearance kind of ruined the flow of the scene--undermined its fear factor and the dynamic between these two. Also, did we not see how Dolarhyde got Reba? It was weird just seeing her tied up in the van. I'm not expecting much from the finale, but hopeful.
Monocle
Member
Yeah, same. I thought it was great. For what it's worth, it's
my favorite Red Dragon adaptation for the superb casting and performances alone, particularly Dolarhyde and Reba. (This version of Reba is love-at-first-sight material. A beautiful character, actress, performance.)
It's weird to me how a lot of people seem to have such a turbulent relationship with this show, where they love it for one episode and plunge into disappointment when the next is a little too artsy, or a little too slow, or a little too unbelievable. I've been watching Hannibal since the beginning, and I feel like it has never dipped below its uncommonly high baseline of quality. It's never broken its internal logical or trespassed beyond the stylistic bounds that it's staked out for itself either. It has never pretended to be anything other than this grand purple operatic pageant of art and violence; an unflinching view of the title character's world, drenched in his personal sensibilities and reflecting his own perverse perspective.
I find Hannibal to be one of the best shows on air, week to week, and the best show in its genre, if it even qualifies as a crime procedural anymore. In any case, it easily surpasses your Game of Throneses and your True Detectives, the occasionally excellent and often mediocre popular fare that pulls in the high ratings and the prestigious awards.
I honestly think that even an average episode of Hannibal is in a class of its own. Tonight's episode was above average for me. What a pity the series is almost over.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
On the plus: Almost all of Chilton's enlightenment at the hands (and teeth) of the Dragon was amazing (and fucking disgusting and horrifying), and the immediate aftermath was also very, very well done - I laughed out loud at least 3 times, and felt gross for having done it immediately afterwards.
On the negative: Bedelia as a sort of framing device, a pre-game and post-game (you play, you pay) interview show, if you will? That didn't quite work. And because they've so fundamentally changed the way the FBI figures out who Francis is, they kinda had to clunkily put Reba in the middle of the Chilton scene. And it didn't work.
Like some of the S1 and S2 murders, I'm willing to give a little leeway to the show just basically employing dark plot magicks to allow fucked-up beauty to play out. But Chilton just getting taken like that, and the FBI apparently just sitting and waiting for a wheelchair to deliver him again? It's hard to roll (ha) with that too much. It sucks that for Season 3, my "Ugh. I don't know if I can give that one a pass you guys" moment (there was a couple in S1, and at least one in S2) comes in the penultimate episode, as a means to provide us what could have been one of the most frightening scenes in the entire show, if it hadn't been marred by a weird guest appearance from soup-bearing blind girlfriend and her tension killing kindness.
Will is pissed, and Hannibal's got the gloves off, and yet this episode doesn't feel like a wave of awful is about to crash upon us all and drown us in blood. It feels like watching someone cheat at chess just before folding their arms, nodding, and pronouncing checkmate one move later.
On the negative: Bedelia as a sort of framing device, a pre-game and post-game (you play, you pay) interview show, if you will? That didn't quite work. And because they've so fundamentally changed the way the FBI figures out who Francis is, they kinda had to clunkily put Reba in the middle of the Chilton scene. And it didn't work.
Like some of the S1 and S2 murders, I'm willing to give a little leeway to the show just basically employing dark plot magicks to allow fucked-up beauty to play out. But Chilton just getting taken like that, and the FBI apparently just sitting and waiting for a wheelchair to deliver him again? It's hard to roll (ha) with that too much. It sucks that for Season 3, my "Ugh. I don't know if I can give that one a pass you guys" moment (there was a couple in S1, and at least one in S2) comes in the penultimate episode, as a means to provide us what could have been one of the most frightening scenes in the entire show, if it hadn't been marred by a weird guest appearance from soup-bearing blind girlfriend and her tension killing kindness.
Will is pissed, and Hannibal's got the gloves off, and yet this episode doesn't feel like a wave of awful is about to crash upon us all and drown us in blood. It feels like watching someone cheat at chess just before folding their arms, nodding, and pronouncing checkmate one move later.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Chilton getting his lips bitten off...what the fuck? :x
and then Hannibal eats one of them lol
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I knew it had to be the lips scene that everyone was talking about when they said they couldn't hold it together doing shooting.
Can you imagine seeing that happening right in front of you and not being able to utter any sort of sound?
GUH
Can you imagine seeing that happening right in front of you and not being able to utter any sort of sound?
GUH
Thought it was a really good episode. I'm just not seeing any drop in quality compared to the previous seasons. The only way I can rationalize that viewpoint it is that the first few episodes were slow (which I can agree with although I enjoyed them) and that this second half has adapted the books/films more closely than any of the other stuff they've brought to the show. Even though we knew Mason would die and Margot would get her revenge (at least in the books), we didn't know how that material would show up in the show since the other material was remixed and new stuff was added. We got crazy stuff like the surrogate pig, and Cordell being fucking insane. With the Red Dragon stuff though, it's been pretty fucking close to what we've seen in other media. It's lacking in surprises, I guess. That's the only way I can rationalize the complaints.
Personally? I have fucking loved it. Armitage has fucking killed it as Dolarhyde. The attack on Will's house last week. The scene with his face covered in this episode? Just sinister as hell. I loved what they did with the previous material, but while everyone was clamoring for the Red Dragon stuff I was worried since my only experience with the material was from Ratner's crap movie, which left me feeling disappointed. I was not impressed with that movie at all. How the hell was Dolarhyde going to be scary when we've seen some of the best Hannibal has had to offer? How can you match Hannibal feeding Gideon his body piece by piece and mocking him while doing so? Nothing can be more twisted and fucked up than that. But, Armitage has pulled off (espcially in these past 2-3 episodes) a really menacing Dolarhyde. He has impressed me so much.
I really felt for Chilton. Raul did a billion times better job than Hoffman who came off as awkward in that scene with that lisp of his. So messed up to see what happened to him in this episode. How do you feel sympathy for someone who in reality is a shitty human being? And yet, I did.
Seeing what Fuller and Armitage have brought to Red Dragon makes me REALLY wish we could get Silence of the lambs more so than I did before they got to this arc. Would love to see what they could do with Buffalo Bill. How they would flesh that character out. And, Hannibals escape... Would he go after Will, or would he and Clarice (or her replacement) be a thing?
Personally? I have fucking loved it. Armitage has fucking killed it as Dolarhyde. The attack on Will's house last week. The scene with his face covered in this episode? Just sinister as hell. I loved what they did with the previous material, but while everyone was clamoring for the Red Dragon stuff I was worried since my only experience with the material was from Ratner's crap movie, which left me feeling disappointed. I was not impressed with that movie at all. How the hell was Dolarhyde going to be scary when we've seen some of the best Hannibal has had to offer? How can you match Hannibal feeding Gideon his body piece by piece and mocking him while doing so? Nothing can be more twisted and fucked up than that. But, Armitage has pulled off (espcially in these past 2-3 episodes) a really menacing Dolarhyde. He has impressed me so much.
I really felt for Chilton. Raul did a billion times better job than Hoffman who came off as awkward in that scene with that lisp of his. So messed up to see what happened to him in this episode. How do you feel sympathy for someone who in reality is a shitty human being? And yet, I did.
Seeing what Fuller and Armitage have brought to Red Dragon makes me REALLY wish we could get Silence of the lambs more so than I did before they got to this arc. Would love to see what they could do with Buffalo Bill. How they would flesh that character out. And, Hannibals escape... Would he go after Will, or would he and Clarice (or her replacement) be a thing?
So true. Honestly I think this Red Dragon arc has been pretty great. I really dig the focus on one killer. I think it's sort of what I wish Season 1 (and some of S2) had been, rather than the killer of the week stuff. It really sucks that the show's been cancelled just when it seems to be coming into its own. I think a Silence adaptation handled this way could have been something really special.
I've only skimmed over much of the criticism as I hadn't had much time to post my thoughts upon review of this episode since it just came out in 'merica but I thought that it was incredible. I feel like my enjoyment of this arc comes from not having read or seen any of the previous Red Dragon material.
metsallica
Member
So I just sat down to watch my DVR'd episode of Hannibal and found a football game instead. How does one watch this episode legally? Do I have to buy it?
If you have Verizon FIOS they usually put them up for free in the In Demand section. Also, the episodes go up here: http://www.nbc.com/hannibal/video
metsallica
Member
Thank you. I always forget to check On Demand; here's hoping Time Warner is as quick as Fios. I checked the NBC app and it only has last week's episode so far.
I can't tell if its the acting or the writing, but I've cringed many times this season when Bedelia has dialogue, which I didn't do the first two years. I think its an unfortunate combination of Anderson being fed the least natural, most clunky lines of any character combined with her lethargic, near monotone delivery. Its been one of my biggest issues this season and I always feel like her scenes are the low point of every episode.
Been rewatching S1 and S2, her "acting" is decidedly different this season. I don't know if she's been fed shitty direction or what. Then again, there is also too much of her this season. Watching S3 in the middle of a series rewatch, it just seems to me that not enough care was put into the show this time around. Most if not all episodes were tightly designed. The pace was great and they were well written, it used to be a entertaining to hear dialogue between two people. Now it's a complete chore. Not really sure what went wrong here.
Maybe adapting Hannibal and Red Dragon was just a serious mistake and stretching that material to 13 hours does nobody any favors.
A personal pet peeve about this season is that everything is just too fucking green. I don't understand what's up with that. The picture is excessively dark too.
Bad lines and bad line readings. Her "I was swallowed by the beast" lecture a week or two ago is probably the worst case so far; nothing she says or does feels believable anymore.
therealminime
Member
Man, iTunes (Canada) just seems to stop caring near the end of a Hannibal season. Last year near the end of season 2 they had tons of upload issues, either episodes were late, one never even showed up. Now with season 3 it's happening again, last week's episode had only white noise for audio and now this week's episode is MIA.
Edit: Ok so I loved that episode. I think me not really being familiar with the source material helps. The entire, lengthy, scene with Chilton and the Dragon was genuinely heart pounding in a way that Hannibal as a show doesn't get all that often.
Edit: Ok so I loved that episode. I think me not really being familiar with the source material helps. The entire, lengthy, scene with Chilton and the Dragon was genuinely heart pounding in a way that Hannibal as a show doesn't get all that often.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Bedelias character seemed fine to me. i thought the reason for her sounding different in the later half of this season was because she is choosing her words carefully as to not incriminate herself. And people hating on the lecture scene? Bad writing and bad acting?
Miles Quaritch
Member
We need a gif of the moment he slurps it up.
And then the look afterwards was just incredible.
Great episode.
Bedelia's conversations with Will have been a highlight for me this season. Even going back to episode 6.
I thought it was a nice touch to see Chilton expressing some empathy about Reba.
And echoing a previous statement, Rutina Wesley's been something of a revelation. Washing that True Blood filth off of her.
Bedelia's conversations with Will have been a highlight for me this season. Even going back to episode 6.
I thought it was a nice touch to see Chilton expressing some empathy about Reba.
And echoing a previous statement, Rutina Wesley's been something of a revelation. Washing that True Blood filth off of her.
therealminime
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This motherfucker, man...
I kind of felt that the character swap for that wheelchair scene, while fitting in poetically with the previous season, still felt like it was pandering. Like Fuller made the decision to make Lounds a female but didn't want to go through with burning her on air so opted with Chilton, a character we all hated.
That said, what the hell is the FBI doing that they set him up and allowed that to happen?
Edit: Also bummed out only one of my two favorite lines got unaltered. "Ride with me. ...for my pleasure" and "I am the dragon. Before you me you tremble." The latter got cut up into his monologue.
That said, what the hell is the FBI doing that they set him up and allowed that to happen?
Edit: Also bummed out only one of my two favorite lines got unaltered. "Ride with me. ...for my pleasure" and "I am the dragon. Before you me you tremble." The latter got cut up into his monologue.
Jeff Stephen
Member
They really have gone too far with the overall look of the show. Before the Red Dragon was introduced I went back to S1E01 and the difference is surprising.
Same goes for the writing.
A Serious Man
Member
What? Chilton is probably the most lovable character on the show, which is almost certainly the reason Fuller put him in Lounds place.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I liked trading Chilton for Lounds. The scene plays way better with him in that chair rather than her, for multiple reasons. Chilton is one of the best characters of the show, but it really wasn't until that interview with Freddie & Will that I realized how smoothly they'd taken some of book Lounds' worst characteristics and slid them over to Chilton. Probably because Chilton's negatives overlap with Lounds' pretty cleanly as it is.
If it had been Freddie as she is in this show, I don't know that it would have worked nearly as well, honestly.
If it had been Freddie as she is in this show, I don't know that it would have worked nearly as well, honestly.
Monocle
Member
Pandering to who? Every time I see the word "pandering" in this sort of context, it looks like a slam against political correctness (i.e. trying not to treat historically marginalized people like shit).
A lot of fans were broken up over Abigail's and Beverly's fates, and also, based on interviews, I get the sense that Fuller wants to maintain a certain level of tact and restraint in portraying violence against women, to counterbalance the way that raping or otherwise brutalizing female characters is exploited freely for cheap drama in popular shows (see: Game of Thrones).
Fine with me. I'm glad I didn't have to watch Freddie go through all of that. I love Chilton's character too, but he didn't get a gender swap specifically intended to increase the show's female representation. Preserving Freddie for that reason isn't pandering, it's resisting the stupid trend of trying to make the audience squirm by tormenting women.
Besides which, it makes perfect sense for the show's version of Chilton to end up where he did, considering his standoffish relationship with Will and Hannibal and his unfortunate tendency to play checkers while everyone else is playing chess. He tried to frolick with the predators and got himself eaten. It's not his fault, really. Part of his charm was always that he's so inept.
If fear and misery is equivalent to plumping up, the rudest character on the show is ripe.
Ya, the wheelchair scene only would've worked in season 1. Everything after that, she's just been a background character.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, Monocle's nailed most of the real-world/behind-the-scenes reasons. But even setting that aside: On a story level, it's a lot better if it's Chilton. That character means more, honestly. He fits that situation better. The interactions between him and Dolarhyde were played brilliantly - I don't think Freddie's character could have pulled that off. Even when she's been placed in hairy situations in S1 & S2, she's never reacted like Chilton has, and I think Chilton's sweaty, panicked attempts at bargaining are absolutely necessary for that scene to play like it does. Freddie's character wouldn't have gone that way, I don't think. At least it wouldn't have felt right. And considering her only other appearance this season involves her being a real smartass for all of 5 minutes, if they'd tried to have her play that, I think it would have been jarring and false.
The only problem with that scene is the Reba pause button in the middle of it.
The only problem with that scene is the Reba pause button in the middle of it.
I thought Chilton being the victim was great simply because the playful aspect of him basically being immortal on the show. To find out he was still alive was something special lol. Like, he literally can't die. And of course there's a reason why both Hannibal and Will would want him to suffer. Don't feel they hate Freddy nearly as much as they do Chilton.
I guess I can see the whole violence against women thing though, but I don't think that really went into the thought process of the writers. It is funny though how no one raises an issue with the male characters get brutally tortured and murdered but the second anything happens to a female character all hell breaks loose.
I guess I can see the whole violence against women thing though, but I don't think that really went into the thought process of the writers. It is funny though how no one raises an issue with the male characters get brutally tortured and murdered but the second anything happens to a female character all hell breaks loose.
Monocle
Member
That's because of the history of women in media and society. It's not an equal playing field, and it's unfortunate that modern attempts to correct that are met with so much resistance. But I guess it's all a matter of perspective. When you don't perceive a problem with how women were and are treated, it can look as though a bunch of uppity people are scrambling for special treatment of women at the expense of men.
It's the same issue at the core of a common misunderstanding about gay marriage. It's not about giving gay people special rights or robbing straight people of their special way of making their relationship official; it's about treating fundamentally equal people, well, equally. Which doesn't always mean literally the same on day one, because if one privileged group is treated literally the same as a less privileged one, their relative positions don't budge an inch.
Not a slam against political correctness - but rather more of pandering towards their largest vocal audience, tumblr, which is predominantly female. (i.e. see the Supernatual effect) They even spelled out in the recent episode, "does Hannibal love me?" which tumblr will go nuts for.
This is a show that killed two of their lead female characters and paralyzed another then turned her into a lesbian who will likely be killed. While I do adore the show, the direction with those characters is more of a teenage male's fan fiction than anything else. Oh god, there's even a "she's a bad ass with no characterization" introduced in the first of this season. Not exactly the paragon of feminism. I wouldn't have thought anything of the current episode if I hadn't read that article about female abuse that was cited a few pages back. It was the only thing that had me thinking about it from that aspect but actually the more I think about it, Chilton makes the most sense to be in that position. Even if he is the "omg you killed kenny" of Hannibal.
You can't be serious with this.
F0rneus
Tears in the rain
Alana was always bisexual. Fuller said so on Twiiter. Plus he's gay, so there's no fantasy angle there.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Do you really think that a decision based so heavily on characterization, as I pointed out previously, is a result of basic number crunching so as to best get tumblr applause?
When they were writing, and then shooting, and then editing this, I don't think they were aiming for tumblr plaudits. I think they were just trying to make their adaptation as good as they could.
I think it's hard to make the argument that a show this self-indulgent gives a fuck what ANY aspect of its audience really thinks, much less cares so much that Fuller & Co. will sabotage their own storytelling for the sake of some gifs.
I think if it was done more tastefully and not "they gave each other a glance once" I would've accepted it more. Plus the pattern of female fates on the show and that aligns with awkward fanfiction.
So being a gay male means he gets a pass on writing female characters?
To be fair, the first half of this season was self-indulgent as fuck. This half has been just an adaptation, hence my mind wandering as to whether there's pandering going on. But as I said in my post towards the end, it was a thought but after thinking about it more I get it. Lounds isn't nearly the same character as Lounds is in the movie. I definitely get it, and my initial comment was more of a "huh that's weird given that article I just read" kind of thing. The timing of it threw me off.
Oh, there's nothing wrong with your criticism of their relationship. It was pretty rushed and felt like something that was done for plot purposes. I just hate the phrase "turned into a lesbian", because it sounds like something people who don't believe in the existence of bisexuals would say. Re-reading your post, I get the tone you were going for though, it was more that you felt the relationship itself was sudden and hamfisted, which I can respect.
My interpretation was that Alana was just using Margot at the start, and then after seeing what Mason put her through first hand she developed a deep sympathy due to her caring nature. Honestly, it could have used more screen time (they could have just removed some of those godawful Chiyoh scenes or Will tripping out moments), but it was fine for what it was and it made Digestivo (best episode in the series IMO) all the stronger.