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NEOGAF's Official Music Production Thread: calling all producers

Man, I haven't made a single song since I got Mixcraft. I think I know how to use everything now, but you can't really make shit unless you have a particular tune in your head. All I ever manage to get is a few beats off, but nothing to go with it to have a complete song.
Doing this now makes me really think about all the components and instruments that go into a song. I pay a little more attention now when I'm listening to music and how the parts correspond with one another.
 
Do you guys happen to have any tips on insulating your floor from sound? all of my bass goes down from my speakers through the floor and annoys my neighbors, and I mostly can't even hear that bass anyway
 

Kyzer

Banned
Do you guys happen to have any tips on insulating your floor from sound? all of my bass goes down from my speakers through the floor and annoys my neighbors, and I mostly can't even hear that bass anyway

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R155

they have them specifically for subs too

when i moved into my apartment i put my sub on a bunch of video game guides and it helped a little. those will help much more.

in terms of insulating your floor....I guess you'd want rockwool but you probably shouldnt have to install insulation in your floor


btw guys i upgraded from Reaper to Studio One and I LOVE it. There are very minor things here and there but im sure they will be fixed theyre really basic issues and theres no way they dont intend to patch it

Theres a scratch pad that allows you to create alternate ideas without altering your original song or randomly just going down the timeline. You can also paint/ label / fill parts in the arrangement and then open an arrangement window and literally drag and drop parts of your song into a list to try different orders or the ideas from your scratch pad. Theres all sorts of integration with hardware, like everything from Presonus of course (like my faderport!) and the Softube Console 1. Their hardware insert plugin is nice. And the DAW itself is beautiful to look at. Also nice to have official waves support. No more fuss. Theres also a "Mix FX" engine that replaces the digital summing system with different plugins. Right now all there is is their "Console Shaper" which sounds really damn good (does drive, noise, and crosstalk), but I end up not using it a lot because the Drive literally changes the levels on your individual channels. But apparently the Slate Virtual Console Collection will be officially integrated! That will be AMAZING! Not needing to load an instance on every channel. Very innovative. Melodyne is also integrated and I love it. It complements Nectar 2 really well. I didnt know how good Melodyne was. Super impressive. Will probably buy the professional upgrade or whatever. All in all really loving mixing on it. Still using Reaper for production for now just because of familiarity.
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISOL8R155

they have them specifically for subs too

when i moved into my apartment i put my sub on a bunch of video game guides and it helped a little. those will help much more.

in terms of insulating your floor....I guess you'd want rockwool but you probably shouldnt have to install insulation in your floor
I have monitor stands and foam pads between them and the monitors themselves. I rent an apartment so installing my own insulation isn't really an option. I just raised the monitors up really high, turned them sideways, and adjusted the acoustic space to -4db and it seems to have helped. not quite as much bass definition but if I'm not bothering my neighbors it's better.
 

maxcriden

Member
Hey all, is there a video.production thread of some kind and I just didn't see it?

The situation is that I have a wedding video my wife and I took during our private beachfront ceremony. The undulating waves drown out our voices almost entirely. I'd like to figure out some way to isolate the different sound frequencies in the video, ideally using free software (we have Mac products only BTW), in order to locate and remove or reduce the sound of the waves so we can hear ourselves. That's possible, right? Any tips? Or, is there a video thread where I should be asking this?

Thanks in advance all!
 
Hey all, is there a video.production thread of some kind and I just didn't see it?

The situation is that I have a wedding video my wife and I took during our private beachfront ceremony. The undulating waves drown out our voices almost entirely. I'd like to figure out some way to isolate the different sound frequencies in the video, ideally using free software (we have Mac products only BTW), in order to locate and remove or reduce the sound of the waves so we can hear ourselves. That's possible, right? Any tips? Or, is there a video thread where I should be asking this?

Thanks in advance all!

I doubt you'll get a nice and clean vocal with it so buried, but you should be able to increase vocal clarify even with just a simple bit of EQ'ing (raising/lowering specific frequency volumes). I don't do video editing though so I can't help you in that regard; I've no idea if video editors come with the required tools or you'd have to bounce the audio, edit it separately and add it to the video again. I'm sure someone can help you with the specifics.
 
"The situation is that I have a wedding video my wife and I took during our private beachfront ceremony. The undulating waves drown out our voices almost entirely. I'd like to figure out some way to isolate the different sound frequencies in the video, ideally using free software (we have Mac products only BTW), in order to locate and remove or reduce the sound of the waves so we can hear ourselves. That's possible, right? Any tips? Or, is there a video thread where I should be asking this?

Thanks in advance all!"


If your voices are drowned out almost entirely there's not really anything you can do. Especially with something like waves which is a pretty broad spectrum noise. Even with paid (fairly expensive) software, you wouldn't be able to fix that.

You can try something like Audacity, which is free (look on youtube for tutorials on how to remove noise), but don't have high hopes.
 

maxcriden

Member
I doubt you'll get a nice and clean vocal with it so buried, but you should be able to increase vocal clarify even with just a simple bit of EQ'ing (raising/lowering specific frequency volumes). I don't do video editing though so I can't help you in that regard; I've no idea if video editors come with the required tools or you'd have to bounce the audio, edit it separately and add it to the video again. I'm sure someone can help you with the specifics.

If your voices are drowned out almost entirely there's not really anything you can do. Especially with something like waves which is a pretty broad spectrum noise. Even with paid (fairly expensive) software, you wouldn't be able to fix that.

You can try something like Audacity, which is free (look on youtube for tutorials on how to remove noise), but don't have high hopes.

Thank you both very much for your counsel. I will keep my expectations low as I try to see if there's anything I can do with this. The ceremony was just for the two of us and we never planned to show anyone else, and I wasn't sure if this was fixable--and it's been nearly 5 years--so if we have only our memories and a fuzzily partly discernible video only, that will have to be okay and we'll just keep making more memories and videos. Anyway, I digress, those are just my own musings. Thank you.
 

Hip Hop

Member
Hello everyone.

Anyone have experience in playing live shows?

My friends have experience playing live with guitars/amps but they've never done what I came in to help with, which is playing my drum loops made with software live. So we are stumped as to what equipment we will need for that. We need to go to some sort of DJ route, no?

We want to play shows after finishing this album we are doing.

They'll be playing along to my drums from a computer with their guitars. Since the local venues don't provide speakers (if they do, the PA systems are sometimes pretty bad), what kind of speaker or system would you guys recommend to fill up a small bar that can connect to a laptop? Something that can compete with their very loud guitar amps too.

EDIT: Are these the type of speakers for such thing?
http://www.sweetwater.com/c134--PA_Speakers
 

Kyzer

Banned
Hello everyone.

Anyone have experience in playing live shows?

My friends have experience playing live with guitars/amps but they've never done what I came in to help with, which is playing my drum loops made with software live. So we are stumped as to what equipment we will need for that. We need to go to some sort of DJ route, no?

We want to play shows after finishing this album we are doing.

They'll be playing along to my drums from a computer with their guitars. Since the local venues don't provide speakers (if they do, the PA systems are sometimes pretty bad), what kind of speaker or system would you guys recommend to fill up a small bar that can connect to a laptop? Something that can compete with their very loud guitar amps too.

EDIT: Are these the type of speakers for such thing?
http://www.sweetwater.com/c134--PA_Speakers

Yeah you want PAs and a hardware mixer for everything to go into I'm pretty sure. You might also want to get a little rack to take with you of gear. One of the things about live is 99% of people involved have no idea what good sound is or even setup their own speakers properly, so it'll be good to be in control of your own setup. Maybe get a power conditioner and some di boxes if you need them, and from there I mean, the more gear you incorporate the more you distance yourself from other acts in quality, and it'll be extra useful to use hardware because of latency. Like I would imagine eq and compressor to be super useful for you guys. I guess if they're playing from their own amps you can just use plugins for your own stuff. Im not sure how to take the level from your computer to line level of the mixer, I think also maybe a di box?

Not sure what good quality PAs are! Haven't gotten there in life yet
 
Hello everyone.

Anyone have experience in playing live shows?

My friends have experience playing live with guitars/amps but they've never done what I came in to help with, which is playing my drum loops made with software live. So we are stumped as to what equipment we will need for that. We need to go to some sort of DJ route, no?

We want to play shows after finishing this album we are doing.

They'll be playing along to my drums from a computer with their guitars. Since the local venues don't provide speakers (if they do, the PA systems are sometimes pretty bad), what kind of speaker or system would you guys recommend to fill up a small bar that can connect to a laptop? Something that can compete with their very loud guitar amps too.

EDIT: Are these the type of speakers for such thing?
http://www.sweetwater.com/c134--PA_Speakers
I can't help you with the PA thing (have you tried just plugging in your stuff to their amps with the help of a mixer?)

But I recently played a live set for 2 hours with an Korg Electribe 2 and Novation Circuit

So maybe I can give advise for playing live beats.
 
I can't help you with the PA thing (have you tried just plugging in your stuff to their amps with the help of a mixer?)

But I recently played a live set for 2 hours with an Korg Electribe 2 and Novation Circuit

So maybe I can give advise for playing live beats.

Been meaning watch that video. How are you liking the two instruments, been considering getting one of them, or just a tr-8. I see you're using a studio mixer, have you considered using a dj mixer?

Here is a video of a track I did few days ago. Wanna hear what you guys think about in terms of its composition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byXkzm7f3rg
 
I can't help you with the PA thing (have you tried just plugging in your stuff to their amps with the help of a mixer?)

But I recently played a live set for 2 hours with an Korg Electribe 2 and Novation Circuit

So maybe I can give advise for playing live beats.

Cool job. Didn't get the time to watch the entire set, but I will.

The Electribe 2 is a really great tool; I use it way more than I expected I would. Bought it as an idea box for the go to later maybe integrate with all of my other synthesizers, but it's become gear that I use on almost every track I record now. It deserves more recognition for how much more beef and versatility it offers to the table than the EMX-1 did (I loved the tubes, but...not worth the other concessions).
 
Hello everyone.

Anyone have experience in playing live shows?

My friends have experience playing live with guitars/amps but they've never done what I came in to help with, which is playing my drum loops made with software live. So we are stumped as to what equipment we will need for that. We need to go to some sort of DJ route, no?

We want to play shows after finishing this album we are doing.

They'll be playing along to my drums from a computer with their guitars. Since the local venues don't provide speakers (if they do, the PA systems are sometimes pretty bad), what kind of speaker or system would you guys recommend to fill up a small bar that can connect to a laptop? Something that can compete with their very loud guitar amps too.

EDIT: Are these the type of speakers for such thing?
http://www.sweetwater.com/c134--PA_Speakers

What's your price range? I've worked on different PA systems, low budget to expensive line array... The best thing to do for playing smaller venues is to get a couple of L/R bass bins with small line array speaker/directional high frequency driver up top attached to the bins via a simple pole. These are driven usually by the manufacturer amps, simply so no drivers overload. Along with passive stage monitors and some power amps for them, quality is never as good on actives. d&b audiotechnik (not DB Technologies!) is my preference for FOH speakers, Martin Audio for stage monitors, though both offer setup for mobile bands with details what amps to use.
http://www.dbaudio.com/en.html
https://martin-audio.com/

On the cheaper end of the scale is a Mackie speaker setup, but sound quality won't be as good and you may struggle to hear things. First hand experience, the Q series from d&b, 2 subs, two Hi-Freq driver speakers with two D12 black face amps, and 4 Martin Audio monitors with subsequent power amps is more than enough. We had Devin Townsend do his Pre-Production tour rehearsal in the small venue I was at in 2013. I also mic'd up full drum kits, two guitar 1/2 stacks and a bass stack with DI keyboard, with lead and backing vocals and you can hear everything clearly.

With PA at venues you'll need to calculate power usage and whether you'll have enough power sockets available for your amps and whether they can support the power draw of your equipment etc. never ever load everything off one or even two wall sockets, you could blow the PA, and the thing most likely to go are the power amps as they draw the most wattage.

Also the other factor that you have to deal with is acoustics. At sound check and when people fill the venue it will be different, people are a surprisingly effective sound absorption coefficient.
 

lazygecko

Member
I remember seeing some other company's (u-he?) software version of Synclavier. Was very excited and hurried to purchase a digital copy. Was just about ready to confirm the order and unzip my pants when I noticed the disclaimer about an iLok requirement. Talk about buzzkill.

Downloaded the Arturia demo and played around with it a bit... and I just feel like this isn't something I actually need. GAS has been almost a non-factor for me for more years than I can remember at this point.
 

Hamst3r

Member
Hmm, seems I forgot I had an Arturia product. Can get the Arturia V Collection 5 cheap, worth it anyone?

I have the V4 collection and like it, although I'm not an analog buff. I pretty much just use the Analog Lab plugin which is basically a preset browser that loads the other plugins like Komplete Kontrol loads NI plugins.
 
New song:

https://soundcloud.com/florsh-558501827/crunch

I'm having this weird problem where it seems that every other time I export a song in FL Studio it "wraps" the ending around to the beginning. I'm having to export everything twice now, it's strange.

7iMyCQM.jpg


Do you have that option set to wrap remainder? If so set it to leave remainder. It's basically rendering any reverb/effects that remain at the end of your song after the last pattern/sample has played, but it's wrapping them back around to the beginning. I usually stretch my last pattern out to where the song should end. Even if the pattern is blank, but there's effects like reverb or delay still rendering, it's best to give FL Studio a better idea of exactly where the end should be so it doesn't prematurely cut sound off in the render.

If that isn't the issue, then I recommend pressing the stop button twice and making sure it's silent before hitting export. Hitting stop once stops playback (but fx are still on, so you'll hear reverb etc). Hitting it again should cut all sound. Sometimes I've noticed if I press stop once and then quickly go to export, it'll add the fx tail to the start of the render. I think it's a bug (or there's something I'm missing).
 
7iMyCQM.jpg


Do you have that option set to wrap remainder? If so set it to leave remainder. It's basically rendering any reverb/effects that remain at the end of your song after the last pattern/sample has played, but it's wrapping them back around to the beginning. I usually stretch my last pattern out to where the song should end. Even if the pattern is blank, but there's effects like reverb or delay still rendering, it's best to give FL Studio a better idea of exactly where the end should be so it doesn't prematurely cut sound off in the render.

If that isn't the issue, then I recommend pressing the stop button twice and making sure it's silent before hitting export. Hitting stop once stops playback (but fx are still on, so you'll hear reverb etc). Hitting it again should cut all sound. Sometimes I've noticed if I press stop once and then quickly go to export, it'll add the fx tail to the start of the render. I think it's a bug (or there's something I'm missing).

I think that was the problem as I've always had it set to leave remainder.

I'm getting increasingly tired of using FL Studio, there are so many inconveniences caused by having a smaller than average monitor. I constantly have to "detach" some VSTs to get them to fit on my screen without being covered up by the GUI, some windows automatically minimize and become impossible reopen if they're dragged too far off-screen, it's all just a pain in the ass. I'd look into getting another DAW but I don't have money to burn.
 
Or a new monitor I guess.

I tried the demo of Ableton Live and had absolutely no idea what to do there, so in spite of everything FL Studio is still the right DAW for me.
 
Yeah I can definitely see the interface being too cluttered and cramped on a smaller monitor. A second monitor is super useful too, I have the mixer up on it pretty much at all times. Might try moving the channel rack to it too, come to think of it.
 
So there's this service that has partnered with Soundcloud called Landr that "automasters" tracks, which is cool except that the "mastering" it does is apparently straight garbage.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...mastering-audio-tool-is-more-of-an-auto-turd/

Jones, who mastered Flato's EP, was not impressed by Landr's take. "It is pretty scary," Jones wrote in an e-mail interview with Ars. "There are hyper-compressed areas that have resulted in clippy digital artifacts. In other areas there are certain noises that are actually enhanced when they should have been reduced or eliminated. The equalization is wrong. I could go on."

I tried it out on a song I'm working on and, although I know next to nothing about mastering, did not like what it pumped out one bit.

Anyways, they're offering ONE FREE WAV DOWNLOAD for soundcloud users if anyone's interested in trying it. The pricing scheme is a bit crazy too, is it really worth paying 10 more dollars for 8 extra bits in a wav file?

 

Falk

that puzzling face
its ok though just like google autogenerated music it'll eventually be good

try in a couple of centuries
 

lazygecko

Member
Well, of course someone who makes a living from mastering is going to slam an algorithm, haha.

I'm just really cynical over the entire concept or mastering (or the modern meaning it mutated into, rather) and the meta-industry that has formed around it. I pretty much view it as astrology.
 
Also, why would you pay for a high quality rip when Soundcloud's going to compress it down to 128 kbps anyways? I just don't get it. :(

Soundcloud keeps the original file on its servers. So if you uploaded a WAV it can still be accessed if you want to offer downloads, but it's compressed for streaming.

I tried an auto-mastering service on one track last year and thought it was pretty bad. It pretty much just compressed it to hell and made it as loud as possible. I struggle with mixing/mastering myself, but I'd still rather trust my own ears tweaking things than just putting a song through a one-size-fits-all generic chain of software.

I'm just really cynical over the entire concept or mastering (or the modern meaning it mutated into, rather) and the meta-industry that has formed around it. I pretty much view it as astrology.
A lot of people seem to treat it like a magic last step that makes everything sound professional. If you're thinking "This sounds a bit messed up, but I'll fix it in mastering" you've already gone wrong. When I started I used to master the shit out my songs. And by that I mean make them a muddy, muddled, loud mess. I try to keep it simpler now with just some gentle compression, a limiter and maybe a tiny bit of saturation/EQ'ing. Any other issues I try to fix in the mix.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
I'm just really cynical over the entire concept or mastering (or the modern meaning it mutated into, rather) and the meta-industry that has formed around it. I pretty much view it as astrology.

Mastering is essentially
- The art of making sure your content is ready for public consumption
- The art of making an album sound cohesive.
- A fresh set of ears/perspective to spot problems with a production

Granted, a lot of things of yesteryear (applying low level noise between tracks to cover up breaks, making sure bass is properly centered so pin doesn't physically jump out of groove for vinyl) don't exactly apply to the digital age, but the concept really still applies, especially the third.

I wouldn't master my own stuff if given the choice.
 
Been meaning watch that video. How are you liking the two instruments, been considering getting one of them, or just a tr-8. I see you're using a studio mixer, have you considered using a dj mixer?

Thanks for checking out my set. I love both units. Can't really say one is better. Both have awesome advantages and some unfortunate disadvantages. But they compliment each other nicely. I am not so much a fan of the newer Roland stuff (maybe just the look) but I'm considering the tr-8 just because I could use it to process both the Circuit and Electribe and make use of its sidechain and stutter FX. Also considering saving for an Octatrack...

just wanted to link this cuz i think its the best thing ive made this year so far

https://soundcloud.com/sadsic/rememberance

Very nice output as always! Love the changes of pace throughout. I also have that "Go" sample from some free sample pack.
 

lazygecko

Member
Mastering is essentially
- The art of making sure your content is ready for public consumption
- The art of making an album sound cohesive.
- A fresh set of ears/perspective to spot problems with a production

Granted, a lot of things of yesteryear (applying low level noise between tracks to cover up breaks, making sure bass is properly centered so pin doesn't physically jump out of groove for vinyl) don't exactly apply to the digital age, but the concept really still applies, especially the third.

I wouldn't master my own stuff if given the choice.

The way I see it, once digital formats (CD included) started to phase out analog like vinyl on the consumer market, people who made a living from mastering started feeling afraid that they would become marginalized in the industry. Traditional mastering required highly specialized skills and equipment with surgical precision in order to accurately transfer signals to analog formats. But digital is simply a linear transfer of binary data.

So in order to keep their jobs, the narrative and marketing of their services started to shift more towards processing. Things started getting more obfuscated through mysticism. How many times haven't you heard something like "Oh, we have this vintage mixing console at our place we just run stuff through. We don't know exactly what it does, but it sounds magical afterwards!"?
Then there was of course the loudness wars happening concurrently, and people were willing to pay mastering engineers to pre-emptively give their music "that radio sound".
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Heh, there are definitely more than a few albums, especially punk rock in the late 90s and metal in the early 00s (you know which one i'm talking about) where the mastering job pretty much destroyed the album.

Sometimes it's not actually the fault of the mastering engineer either - like you said, it's something requested by clients and often despite advice to the contrary.

I've definitely run into some mastering engineers from the old guard who would argue about things they sorely needed to read up on - everything from "This brand of CD-R sounds different from that other brand of CD-R and it must be digital's fault" to not understanding the simple theory that if you phase invert A and stack it up vs B and get silence that A == B. I've had one specific case of someone trying to argue that it wasn't the 1s and 0s but the space in between them that was resulting in the differences that he could plainly hear (but I couldn't).

On the other hand, even through till today I'm hard pressed to think of a major production I've worked on that went through the mastering process (not me, in these cases I'm referring to) felt like they were being swindled on smoke and mirrors. Essentially it's a fresh opinion without production bias to give an entirety of a work that last touch of cohesiveness before it goes to mass production and gets set in stone for posterity, so to speak.
 
Heh, there are definitely more than a few albums, especially punk rock in the late 90s and metal in the early 00s (you know which one i'm talking about) where the mastering job pretty much destroyed the album.

Sometimes it's not actually the fault of the mastering engineer either - like you said, it's something requested by clients and often despite advice to the contrary.

I've definitely run into some mastering engineers from the old guard who would argue about things they sorely needed to read up on - everything from "This brand of CD-R sounds different from that other brand of CD-R and it must be digital's fault" to not understanding the simple theory that if you phase invert A and stack it up vs B and get silence that A == B. I've had one specific case of someone trying to argue that it wasn't the 1s and 0s but the space in between them that was resulting in the differences that he could plainly hear (but I couldn't).

On the other hand, even through till today I'm hard pressed to think of a major production I've worked on that went through the mastering process (not me, in these cases I'm referring to) felt like they were being swindled on smoke and mirrors. Essentially it's a fresh opinion without production bias to give an entirety of a work that last touch of cohesiveness before it goes to mass production and gets set in stone for posterity, so to speak.

If you're talking about DM it's actually the mixing job that destroyed that album, it didn't leave enough dynamic range for the mastering engineer to do anything, was already brick walled... Ted Jensen is a highly skilled mastering engineer whom wouldn't produce what came out of that, unless given what couldn't be saved, just have to see his portfolio. Can't polish a turd...
 

KeigoNiwa

Member
i remember passing by this thread a while back and thought, hey cool, people with common interests as me, if i ever need help with anything, i'll give this thread a try..... Well now's the time.

A little about me, i'm a bit of a hobbyist composer, i love video game music, i find it the most inspiring. While i listen to and love all kinds of different styles of music in the video game genre, i only ever tend to compose more classical/acoustic pieces. Mostly because 1; i love the sound and 2; I've played in orchestra's for over 13 years, so the balancing of instruments comes natural to me. I know the sound i want and i just go for it.

That being said, i find it very important to be versatile, and i REALLY want to start making pieces that are still acoustic, but has just' the right amount of unnatural/synthetic flare to add more depth to my compositions.

So i've started working on a piece, and i want it to open with a certain type of sound. It's kind of like a drum and snare, but sounding like it's coming out of a cell phone or a radio (i don't know how better to describe it) you can actually hear it pretty easily in this song One day you'll forget the hopes and dream

Trouble is i really don't know where to start. I'm using FL studio. And i'm more used to using VSTs like EastWest/QuantumLeap products. Any help would be much appreciated!
 

Nyx

Member
Trouble is i really don't know where to start. I'm using FL studio. And i'm more used to using VSTs like EastWest/QuantumLeap products. Any help would be much appreciated!

I'd start with regular drum and snare samples and use the ''Fruity Love Philter'' on it.
Play with the frequency and resonance and you should be able to make those drum and snare sound like they are played through a phone or radio as you mentioned.
 

KeigoNiwa

Member
Was not expecting a response so quickly. Wow, messing around with the love filter plus the parametric EQ2 ended up with me coming very close to the sound i'm trying to acheive, thanks a bunch for the advice!!!
 

Nyx

Member
Was not expecting a response so quickly. Wow, messing around with the love filter plus the parametric EQ2 ended up with me coming very close to the sound i'm trying to acheive, thanks a bunch for the advice!!!

Thank one of my cats who thought it'd be great to start meowing and scratching my bedroom door at 07:20. Otherwise I would still be in bed atm! :)

Happy to help though.
 
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