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[bigtroyjon]

Unless Apple beats them first, not necessarily as a game console, but as a cable box. They were actively negotiating with cable companies, and although the negotiations have stalled for now, they are in a better position than anyone else I think.

How can Apple beat them first when Microsoft already has deals in place with cable companies and the 360 already acts as a type of cable box?

 

[coldfoot]

How can Apple beat them first when Microsoft already has deals in place with cable companies and the 360 already acts as a type of cable box?

Apple TV also acts as a type of cable box, without any subscription fees to Apple. And they have deals, although less than MS. What they have that MS doesn't is more money, and more importantly mobile device dominance which could entice cable companies.

 

[allan-bh]

Somewhat diff col this month. Does have NPD ASP for hardware. Sorry on iPod
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/177336/How_will_Microsoft_and_Sony_respond_to_the_Wii_U_launch.php
More NPD info later this week.

You have hardware sales estimates?

 

[evangd007]

No one is asking Capcom to move RE5 or port it to the Wii. Why couldn't Capcom create an RE4-2 or something? Surely those 2M sales of RE4 signifies that a similar follow up would have sold well, instead they kept throwing shit at the wall and to their dismay none stuck.

The tragedy of it all: Kawata pitched Umbrella Chronicles two ways: as a rails shooter and as an over-the-shoulder RE4 style game. Capcom approved the rails shooter.

 

[Bizazedo]

The rage against the lack of development on Wii is somewhat shortchanged by the lack of the research Capcom did(or proof of lack of research) into making another game. That and the big issue a lot of people in this thread are railing about (the current gen is old) while ignoring that Wii graphically looks older / worse than the HD twins.

i.e., if 360 and PS3 are slipping due to age, if that's assumed to be true, Wii should've gone down much quicker and it would have been smart to quickly transition to the HD Twins.

The only problem right now is they can't transition off the twins to anything new .

 

[donny2112]

I just don't see someone, anyone, who really wants to play all these third party games not simply getting a console that has them.

I guess I'm just playing counterpoint/Devil's advocate to the notion that all this money was "left on the table" - when it could simply be the case that the money just moved to a different table?

Most people buy one console a generation, and that's it. For plenty, it was the Wii. Those people were then never exposed to many of the games on PS360, and, thus, could not become part of the fanbase for those games. That's what is meant by "money left on the table." The PS2 was a success due, in part, to that they had both core and casual players on the system. Games were made for the core on PS2, and then also sold some to the casual who already had the system. That is how userbases are grown. If you only ever sell to your core audience without trying to expand, then your audience will eventually become a niche after some generations. In other words, the core may follow a game wherever, but the casual usually won't, and you need the casual to truly expand your game's userbase (see explosion of Mario Kart Wii/Mario Galaxy compared to Mario Kart: DD/Mario Sunshine).

 

[jvm]

Maybe I'm the only one who cares, but I again checked what GameStop had available for the PSV.

        Total Titles      Store Only
Jul       33                 11
Aug       35                 16
Sep       34                 16

Kind of weird that the number of titles available went down. Maybe I miscounted last month?

Regardless, terribly depressing. If it weren't for the two crossbuy pinball games I've gotten on PSN, I wouldn't be considering a PSV at all...

 

[Man God]

Maybe I'm the only one who cares, but I again checked what GameStop had available for the PSV.

        Total Titles      Store Only
Jul       33                 11
Aug       35                 16
Sep       34                 16

Kind of weird that the number of titles available went down. Maybe I miscounted last month?

Regardless, terribly depressing. If it weren't for the two crossbuy pinball games I've gotten on PSN, I wouldn't be considering a PSV at all...

Some Gamestops near me took out their Vita demo unit and one doesn't even have any Vita products on display. They still have the games for the most part but they are either behind the counter or out back.

 

[SapientWolf]

Most people buy one console a generation, and that's it. For plenty, it was the Wii. Those people were then never exposed to many of the games on PS360, and, thus, could not become part of the fanbase for those games. That's what is meant by "money left on the table." The PS2 was a success due, in part, to that they had both core and casual players on the system. Games were made for the core on PS2, and then also sold some to the casual who already had the system. That is how userbases are grown. If you only ever sell to your core audience without trying to expand, then your audience will eventually become a niche after some generations. In other words, the core may follow a game wherever, but the casual usually won't, and you need the casual to truly expand your game's userbase (see explosion of Mario Kart Wii/Mario Galaxy compared to Mario Kart: DD/Mario Sunshine).

I don't consider the mainline RE franchise to be something with casual appeal. That crowd has moved on to mobile.

 

[allan-bh]

Sleeping Dogs- 172k

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/09/10/npd-sleeping-dogs-sold-172k-across-ps3-and-xbox-360-in-august/

 

[donny2112]

I don't consider the mainline RE franchise to be something with casual appeal.

Casual gamers made Call of Duty into the multi-million selling success that it is. That kind of casual would definitely work for mainline RE games. Zombies are a very mainstream kind of thing ever since Romero's movies started coming out, I think.

 

[SapientWolf]

Casual gamers made Call of Duty into the multi-million selling success that it is. That kind of casual would definitely work for mainline RE games. Zombies are a very mainstream kind of thing ever since Romero's movies started coming out, I think.

We call those casuals dudebros now. They have 360s and PS3s. I'm talking about soccer moms and such.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Most people buy one console a generation, and that's it. For plenty, it was the Wii. Those people were then never exposed to many of the games on PS360, and, thus, could not become part of the fanbase for those games. That's what is meant by "money left on the table." The PS2 was a success due, in part, to that they had both core and casual players on the system. Games were made for the core on PS2, and then also sold some to the casual who already had the system. That is how userbases are grown. If you only ever sell to your core audience without trying to expand, then your audience will eventually become a niche after some generations. In other words, the core may follow a game wherever, but the casual usually won't, and you need the casual to truly expand your game's userbase (see explosion of Mario Kart Wii/Mario Galaxy compared to Mario Kart: DD/Mario Sunshine).

Your example uses games that are very cross-demographic friendly. You're also somewhat misconstruing two different demographics into one, imo, in reference to the success of the Wii and the PS2.

Yes, part of the PS2s success was what we now refer to as casual games. Nonetheless, the same applies: I can't see the person who bought a PS2 just for SingStar or Buzz somehow morphing into the audience for Metal Gear Solid simply because the games are there. The same applies to Kinect.

I also don't see the scenario where someone who wants Resident Evil and GTA and Red Dead and Dead Space and Bioshock and so on and so forth, buys a Wii with the intent that it will be their only console and then in finding that nothing they want is coming for the Wii no longer buys/plays games ever again - when there are perfectly good options available.

 

[Alcibiades]

Most people buy one console a generation, and that's it. For plenty, it was the Wii. Those people were then never exposed to many of the games on PS360, and, thus, could not become part of the fanbase for those games. That's what is meant by "money left on the table." The PS2 was a success due, in part, to that they had both core and casual players on the system. Games were made for the core on PS2, and then also sold some to the casual who already had the system. That is how userbases are grown. If you only ever sell to your core audience without trying to expand, then your audience will eventually become a niche after some generations. In other words, the core may follow a game wherever, but the casual usually won't, and you need the casual to truly expand your game's userbase (see explosion of Mario Kart Wii/Mario Galaxy compared to Mario Kart: DD/Mario Sunshine).

And some househoulds buy every other generation, or are a generation+ behind due to budget. It is really hard to nail down exact consumer behavior regarding console purchases though, and in either case, tens of millions were left at the table when 3rd parties decided not to invest in Wii efforts.

Some people are dedicated enough to buy a console for a game or type of game, but a lot of sales also happen because someone hears about a game that happens to be on a console they own. If the Wii had Dreamcast-level or Saturn-level sales, I could see an issue in developing multiplatform games. When there are 50 million units of a system out there that is #1 product for 3 years in a row, it is simply bad business to limit your market because you see the product as a fad.

 

[Dalthien]

I also don't see the scenario where someone who wants Resident Evil and GTA and Red Dead and Dead Space and Bioshock and so on and so forth, buys a Wii with the intent that it will be their only console and then in finding that nothing they want is coming for the Wii no longer buys/plays games ever again - when there are perfectly good options available.

But some people who might like Resident Evil or GTA might also like Mario or Zelda or Wii Fit. Crazy, I know (/thick sarcasm). I actually know a number of people who love Wii Fit and Mario, and who also love horror/fantasy/sci-fi stuff like Resident Evil or BioShock. People don't always fit into nice little stereotypical marketing packages.

A lot of people don't realize they want something until they have the means to make use of it. There are large numbers of people/families who buy one gaming system and that is the household gaming system for a number of years. If RE or GTA come out on systems they don't own, they don't even really think about the game because they can't play it. If it comes out on a system they do own, they may consider buying it if it seems interesting to them.

Many people/families had a Wii as their household gaming system. RE4 came out for the Wii, people had heard good things about it, so a good number of people went ahead and bought it.

Using the GAF mindset on gaming for anything that happens in the broader world is just asking for a clusterfuck.

 

[shinra-bansho]

And I know people who bought a Wii for Wii Sports and Rockband and Wii Fit who wouldn't touch Grand Theft Auto or Bioshock with a barge pole. Yes, there's variation within demographics, that doesn't mean that demographics don't exist and don't play into whether a product has a market.

Is it really unfathomable that some demographics simply don't align with third party publishers' titles. And that the Wii in expanding the pie rather than competing for the old one had a large constituent of these demographics. Are we really saying the 20 year old female Uni student who bought a PS2 for SingStar or a Wii for Big Brain Academy or the 40 year old mother of three who got a Wii for Wii Fit were some massive untapped market.

Sure, there was an audience/demographic of people receptive to RE4 on the Wii initially. What are the likely attributes of these people? What happened to them when third parties didn't bother to release AAA games on the Wii? Did they all keel over? How many more copies would Capcom have sold of RE5 on the Wii?

-----

As for the family system point, frankly I think it's overly simplistic. Who's purchasing this family system and for what purpose?

Are we saying the family where the mother who bought the Wii as their household system for their 7 and 12 year old to play, for example, is an untapped market for Bioshock? If so, how so.

-----

Further, on RE4 Wii, frankly I think there's a contingent of traditional gamers who will always buy the Nintendo system and these were the primary demographic that got it - not the expanded audience. In which case, is the argument third parties should have released more titles to satisfy this market?

 

[AniHawk]

Further, on RE4 Wii, frankly I think there's a contingent of traditional gamers who will always buy the Nintendo system and these were the primary demographic that got it - not the expanded audience. In which case, is the argument third parties should have released more titles to satisfy this market?

well in the case of resident evil 4, it was one of the earliest things out on the console, so it had plenty of time to sell. it was also one of the least expensive games, since it launched at $30. i know i double-dipped, but i'm not sure who else did. capcom sold 300,000 more copies of the game on the wii than on the gamecube.

 

[Dalthien]

Further, on RE4 Wii, frankly I think there's a contingent of traditional gamers who will always buy the Nintendo system and these were the primary demographic that got it - not the expanded audience. In which case, is the argument third parties should have released more titles to satisfy this market?

Well, RE4 had already been released fairly recently for the Cube. So, the majority of the traditional gamers who will always buy the Nintendo system would have already grabbed RE4 on the Cube. The vast bulk of RE4 Wii sales were to people who don't fit into your description that I quoted.

RE4 Wii (a very late port of a game that had already been released for both PS2 and GC) was a bona fide success. Followed up with spin-off light-gun shooters and not a hint of the real RE5. Call of Duty 3 Wii tripled the sales of the PS3 version, and was then followed up by completely ignoring the Wii for Modern Warfare. Even so, World at War Wii still topped a million units in the US, and still sold more than half of what the PS3 version sold.

So yeah, I think there were definitely signs in place that the Wii could have made for a nice option to help expand the sales for 3rd-party publisher's marquee titles.

At the end of the day, we just don't know how much of a difference it would have made - because 3rd-parties never tried. I was simply referring to donny's comments about how 3rd-parties limited their avenues for growth by shunning the Wii. If you're talking about small userbases like the Dreamcast or Gamecube or Vita - sure, go right ahead and ignore those systems if you feel the userbase is too small to make it worthwhile. But ignoring the market leader - that's just making sure that you leave no room to grow your profits.

As I said, I don't know if a greater focus on the Wii would have helped or not. That ship has sailed, and 3rd-parties chose to ignore it. But I do know that the path they did take didn't amount to much. Activision had a good generation thanks to Call of Duty and WarCraft. But Take Two had a miserable generation. EA had a horrible generation, THQ had a fucking nightmare of a generation. Profitability was nowhere to be found for most of these companies this gen. So maybe looking at some other options might have made some sense, especially early on when 3rd-parties hadn't yet burned all of their goodwill with traditional titles on the market leader. I really don't think it could have hurt.

 

[BishopLamont]

And I know people who bought a Wii for Wii Sports and Rockband and Wii Fit who wouldn't touch Grand Theft Auto or Bioshock with a barge pole. Yes, there's variation within demographics, that doesn't mean that demographics don't exist and don't play into whether a product has a market.

Is it really unfathomable that some demographics simply don't align with third party publishers' titles. And that the Wii in expanding the pie rather than competing for the old one had a large constituent of these demographics. Are we really saying the 20 year old female Uni student who bought a PS2 for SingStar or a Wii for Big Brain Academy or the 40 year old mother of three who got a Wii for Wii Fit were some massive untapped market.

Sure, there was an audience/demographic of people receptive to RE4 on the Wii initially. What are the likely attributes of these people? What happened to them when third parties didn't bother to release AAA games on the Wii? Did they all keel over? How many more copies would Capcom have sold of RE5 on the Wii?

-----

As for the family system point, frankly I think it's overly simplistic. Who's purchasing this family system and for what purpose?

Are we saying the family where the mother who bought the Wii as their household system for their 7 and 12 year old to play, for example, is an untapped market for Bioshock? If so, how so.

-----

Further, on RE4 Wii, frankly I think there's a contingent of traditional gamers who will always buy the Nintendo system and these were the primary demographic that got it - not the expanded audience. In which case, is the argument third parties should have released more titles to satisfy this market?

The mother isn't but the kid is. Look if there was a title on a system people already own, they might buy it due to word of mouth, but if it simply doesn't exist they can't buy it. We'll never know how third parties would have done if they gave the Wii proper support, because it never happened, but the potential was there, that you can not deny. Most people aren't dedicated enough to buy a system simply for a game or two, so its much easier to sell to the ones that already own the system. To leave half of this generations userbase in consoles means you're not fully taking advantage of the gamers on consoles, its simply not something you want to do. Third parties aren't entirely at fault, realistically there was many factors that made the support the way it was, including time, risk, console capabilities etc, etc. But what you can fault third parties as a whole, is that they hardly bothered at all. Hopefully they learnt their lesson this gen and next-gen they will be more cautious and look at the industry as a whole, rather than betting on one horse only. Third parties shouldn't play console wars, they should do whats best for their company's bottom line and this generation was a disaster for many in terms of profitability.

 

[donny2112]

Lack of easily findable (and collated) NPD data has really been a detriment for intelligent discussion of U.S. Sales this generation. We end up with people still relying on the FUD spread by those who just weren't prepared for the success of the Wii and to defend their own choices, negatively spun what was happening on the Wii at the start of the generation. Analysts, publishers, developers, and even journalists who couldn't grasp that the platform not 100% focused on them was winning in monthly totals. Without the hard data to show the fallacy of their comments, we're just left with the comments that so many people choose to believe straight up. Leads to comments like "they have access to more data (and/or are paid more) than us, so they must know what they're doing/saying," even when the generation proved that they weren't anywhere near as "well-informed" (apparently) as those relying on them assumed.

Wii software support shriveled on the vine from lack of nourishment. Its later years showed profitable support pretty much just for those companies that had taken care to feed the userbase well in the earlier years, which were few and far between. Hopefully with a less "backwards" technology-wise system and with much more collaborative effort by Nintendo this time around, maybe this generation won't be an unfortunate repeat of industry support that last generation was for Nintendo.

 

[Nirolak]

Updated the title and OP with Sleeping Dogs.

 

[Eggo]

Sleeping Dogs- 172k

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/09/10/npd-sleeping-dogs-sold-172k-across-ps3-and-xbox-360-in-august/

That is too bad. It's a good game, but those sales are pathetic. I hate to say it, but ATVI made the right call in killing it. It was never going to be profitable.

 

[A Human Becoming]

So we never got a number more specific than <40k for the Vita?

 

[Canis lupus]

Ah Sleeping Dogs.

 

[Hammer24]

So we never got a number more specific than <40k for the Vita?

How much of a difference would, say, 35.7k or 39.2k really make?
If Vita would have been under 35k, we´d know, so we have a corridor.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

So we never got a number more specific than <40k for the Vita?

It's fair to say anything below that number is terrible, regardless.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

That is too bad. It's a good game, but those sales are pathetic. I hate to say it, but ATVI made the right call in killing it. It was never going to be profitable.

I dunno, Deus Ex ended up doing pretty well despite "meh" early numbers in NPD. Then again, the PC version did quite well.

 

[Cipherr]

That is too bad. It's a good game, but those sales are pathetic. I hate to say it, but ATVI made the right call in killing it. It was never going to be profitable.

Yep, I would have called them stupid for passing on it a week ago. But it seems like they made the right choice business wise.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Sleeping Dogs 360+PS3 Square Enix - 172K

I don't even. Taking into account low sales overall and that this trend will continue for the end of the gen perhaps upcoming games will be shy to spend much on marketing. I'm thinking the big budget games of next year and this one.

 

[Mpl90]

http://www.nintendo.com/games

Wii

August 2012

Just Dance 3
LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
The Last Story
Mario Party 9
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
Skylanders Spyro's Adventure
Wii Sports

From September 2011 to August 2012

Just Dance 3
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
Zumba Fitness 2
Super Mario Galaxy
Skylanders Spyro's Adventure
Wii Sports
Mario Kart Wii
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Zumba Fitness
Mario Party 9

3DS

August 2012

New Super Mario Bros. 2
Kingdom Hearts 3D [Dream Drop Distance]
Mario Kart 7
Super Mario 3D Land
Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
Mario Tennis Open
LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes
The Amazing Spider-Man
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D
Pilotwings Resort

From September 2011 to August 2012

Mario Kart 7
Super Mario 3D Land
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D
Pokémon Rumble Blast
Star Fox 64 3D
Kid Icarus: Uprising
Sonic Generations
Skylanders Spyro's Adventure
Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars

Since NSMB2 is absent, this means every game in the TTM chart did more than 240k, even LEGO: Star Wars III without its sales from launch to July 2011 ( with them, it should be over 300k)

DS

August 2012

Pokémon Conquest
New Super Mario Bros.
LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes
LEGO Battles: Ninjago
Mario Kart DS
Pokémon White Version
Pokémon Black Version
Super Mario 64 DS
LEGO Batman: The Videogame
Plants vs Zombies

From September 2011 to August 2012

New Super Mario Bros.
Mario Kart DS
LEGO Battles: Ninjago
Kirby Mass Attack
Plants vs Zombies
Pokémon White Version
Pokémon Black Version
Super Mario 64 DS
Monster High Ghoul Spirit
Cars 2: The Video Game

I'm wondering how much Plants vs Zombies is doing on DS O_O

 

[jvm]

I'm wondering how much Plants vs Zombies is doing on DS O_O

Thanks, Mpl90. With respect to PvZ, my kids have it on NDS and they love it. Honestly can't get enough. They got it in December and they're still playing it every week.

 

[Kazerei]

Wow, the Last Story is #4. I guess that means Wii software has been selling like crap.

 

[A Human Becoming]

How much of a difference would, say, 35.7k or 39.2k really make?
If Vita would have been under 35k, we´d know, so we have a corridor.

I keep track of monthly sales, so I like to have the most accurate numbers possible.

 

[lefantome]

Sleeping dogs is doing well in UK, I think it has a long tail and myabe it has been better received in europe.

Don't forget it was available only since mid august and it was also available on pc.
I think that 400-500k copies in the first two weeks is a reasonable number. Probably it's gonna be a 2 millions seller at leat, especially if GTA V will come out in late 2013

 

[Hammer24]

I keep track of monthly sales, so I like to have the most accurate numbers possible.

Well, who doesn´t?! ;P

In other news - anyone got the ASP´s for the handhelds in August? (Yes, I´m looking at you, Matt ;-))

 

[confuziz]

Sleeping dogs is doing well in UK, I think it has a long tail and myabe it has been better received in europe.

oh you mean a tail of selling 3-4k a week? yea..

 

[allan-bh]

I keep track of monthly sales, so I like to have the most accurate numbers possible.

Me too, would be nice to have more precise figures for this month.

 

[Cake Boss]

The COD numbers means two things and thats BLOPS 2 is going to be a monster while the next installment of Modern Warfare is probabpy going to be the lowest selling game since COD4.