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[BishopLamont]

It exposed the industry to many new people. That is something. But failed to maintain it's new userbase. And those games were indeed great, but non really needed the Wiimote which is how the exposure happened.

Nintendo by themselves can't sustain a system for years on end by themselves, at least to maintain a high rate of sales. Despite that, many third party games still sold well. The third parties that didn't capitalise on the Wii, was all on their shoulders, either with sloppy support or they didn't bother trying at all. The Wii has done enough for the industry, its now up to all three manufacturers to keep moving forward in regards to innovation and surprises, if they want to capture new customers that weren't interested in gaming.

My apologies, Wii fit is a game(by definition). Which is any software that uses a microchip that is controlled via keyboard, joystick, or other to manipulate characters or on screen options. There's just so much of a jarring difference in software numbers between 1st and 3rd parties. One of those games should have sold atleast a third of 1st party's imho.

You expect any of those games to sell millions? Yeah right, they wouldn't sell millions on any platform period.

 

[Parmenides]

HD consoles sales peaked in 2011,and now they're back to normal levels.

NPD (Jan - Aug)

2012 (Unit: million)

360 ~ 2.11
PS3 ~ 1.66
-------------------
TOT ~ 3.77

2009 (Unit: million)

360 ~ 2.04
PS3 ~ 1.45
-------------------
TOT ~ 3.49

Of course new hardware can’t beat price cuts,so an expensive new box is always the last resort.Most people seem to forget the massive losses and atrocious PS360 sales during the first three years of the current cycle.

NPD (Jan - Aug)

2007 (Unit: million)

360 ~ 1.70
PS3 ~ 1.05
-------------------
TOT ~ 2.75

2006 (Unit: million)

360 ~ 1.80

Bottom line,it's time to drop the price to achieve a soft landing,which is what happened with the PS2.

NPD (Jan - Aug)

(Unit: Million)

2002 PS2 ~ 3.36 ($199)
2004 PS2 ~ 2.36 ($149)
.......................................

2006 PS2 ~ 2.09 ($129)
2007 PS2 ~ 1.95 ($129)

If the platform holders cut their entry-level prices ahead of the holiday season,HD consoles will sell ~ 23 million units in 2012.By comparison,PS2+Xbox only sold ~ 15 million units in 2006.The only problem I see is that given the current market conditions in the US,global Xbox 360 sales may drop below 9 million units next year,so it's reasonable to expect a new Xbox by the end of 2013.


PS4? It will have to wait a little bit longer.The rest of the world tends to catch the wave later than the US,so the PS3 has plenty of gas left in its tank.

NPD - LTD (Unit: million)

PS2+Xbox ~ 61

360+PS3 ~ 56.5

 

[Saty]

Pachter 'presumes' Darksiders 2 sold over 1M copies worldwide:

"I think that the sales are below what they had hoped for. I presume it sold around 500,000 globally in the first two weeks (the NPD cutoff was Aug 25), so it's probably over 1 million now, but my understanding is that breakeven is greater than 2 million units, so it's not likely to get much higher than that," Wedbush analyst Michael Pachter told us, adding, "We should probably give it another month and see if it's tracking better."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-09-07-darksiders-ii-sells-just-247-000-copies-in-us

 

[bigtroyjon]

that's bs since npd stopped tracking psp sales by then already,we don't have psp numbers at all

NPD hasn't stopped tracking PSP sales and there are hints about this month's numbers in this thread.

 

[Road]

US NPD
                           soft   hard  ratio
PS360 after  6.3* years:   ~510  ~56.5     ~9
PS2   after  6.5  years:   ~430  ~38.4  ~11.2
PS2   after 10.2  years:   ~530  ~46.2  ~11.5

*(PS3 age + 360 age divided by 2)

The software figures are very rough estimates using tie-ratio and pixel counting.

The lower tie ratio for current gen is possibly a consequence of people owning both consoles. It's also higher than 9 in reality, since we still have to include games distributed through downloads.

that's bs since npd stopped tracking psp sales by then already,we don't have psp numbers at all

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=410260

 

[Jigsaw]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=410260

ok i'm stupid x)

i can't find the august 2010 npd thread on google,are these numbers correct?

PSP 79.4K

PSP: 106,624

can we assume the majority of the bump was the bbs bundle?

 

[Kandinsky]

Man this thread is a mess, will be fun to see how many of you are wrong calling KH a bomb based on these numbers lol.

 

[allan-bh]

I thought it was generally accepted PSP was dead for software in the US.

Was weak in software sales, but install base was much bigger. I didn't expect 225k for KH DDD.

 

[allan-bh]

can we assume the majority of the bump was the bbs bundle?

August- 4 weeks

September- 5 weeks

 

[Leezard]

ok i'm stupid x)

i can't find the august 2010 npd thread on google,are these numbers correct?





can we assume the majority of the bump was the bbs bundle?

August- 4 weeks

September- 5 weeks

So if we assume similar sales/week the bbs bundle would stand for ~6k. That assumption may be off, though.

 

[Road]

I assume the BbS bundle was 99k.

 

[Dalthien]

that's bs since npd stopped tracking psp sales by then already,we don't have psp numbers at all

Seriously? You don't know what you're talking about - so instead of asking questions and trying to learn something, you just call BS? Sheesh...

So if we assume similar sales/week the bbs bundle would stand for ~6k. That assumption may be off, though.

Weekly averages for PSP

July/10 ~ 21k/wk
Aug/10 ~ 20k/wk
Sept/10 ~ 21k/wk (KH:BbS released early in the month)

 

[shinra-bansho]

Nintendo by themselves can't sustain a system for years on end by themselves, at least to maintain a high rate of sales. Despite that, many third party games still sold well. The third parties that didn't capitalise on the Wii, was all on their shoulders, either with sloppy support or they didn't bother trying at all. The Wii has done enough for the industry, its now up to all three manufacturers to keep moving forward in regards to innovation and surprises, if they want to capture new customers that weren't interested in gaming.

With regard to that audience, regardless of how much I hear that it was because third parties "didn't try" and "build an audience" I really don't see how that demographic would have ever become a market for GTA or Skyrim. No amount of releasing core title after title on the Wii was going to turn a soccer mom into Commander Shepherd.

As you note, third parties' party games, dance and fitness games (and sometimes shovelware) sold well. So that's what they released on the Wii. So I'm not sure how they should have capitalized on the expanded audience the Wii brought in besides creating more party, dance and fitness games. Furthermore, with such genres, I think the audience tends to consolidate around a series or brand - e.g. Just Dance.

The same scenario exists on Kinect, I imagine.

The audience for GTA and Skyrim was built. Just not on the Wii.

And at the end of the day, I would surmise with regard to entertainment dollars, that audience was highly volatile/fickle. And if Nintendo manages to capture that audience/demographic again with the Wii U, I still don't see it being a market for Dead Space or Bioshock.

 

[Aaron Strife]

With regard to that audience, regardless of how much I hear that it was because third parties "didn't try" and "build an audience" I really don't see how that demographic would have ever become a market for GTA or Skyrim. No amount of releasing core title after title on the Wii was going to turn a soccer mom into Commander Shepherd.

As you note, third parties' party games, dance and fitness games (and sometimes shovelware) sold well. So that's what they released on the Wii. So I'm not sure how they should have capitalized on the expanded audience the Wii brought in besides creating more party, dance and fitness games. Furthermore, with such genres, I think the audience tends to consolidate around a series or brand - e.g. Just Dance.

The same scenario exists on Kinect, I imagine.

The audience for GTA and Skyrim was built. Just not on the Wii.

And at the end of the day, I would surmise with regard to entertainment dollars, that audience was highly volatile/fickle. And if Nintendo manages to capture that audience/demographic again with the Wii U, I still don't see it being a market for Dead Space or Bioshock.

The thing is though it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when you keep releasing rail shooters like Dead Space Extraction or RE Darkside Chronicles, when RE4 Wii sold like 2 million copies. There was clearly a market and third parties passed on it because they bought into their own bullshit.

Or look at Star Wars Force Unleashed. The Wii version was the best-selling SKU or close to it, so why didn't they do a Star Wars game built around the Wii instead of shoving shoddy cartoon tie-ins and ports of the HD games? A good lightsaber game on Wii would have sold gangbusters.

Of course there's not going to be a market for your games if they suck, just because you slap an M rating on the cover doesn't mean you get to say "Look! Core games! We're really trying guys!"

 

[Lord_Byron28]

With regard to that audience, regardless of how much I hear that it was because third parties "didn't try" and "build an audience" I really don't see how that demographic would have ever become a market for GTA or Skyrim. No amount of releasing core title after title on the Wii was going to turn a soccer mom into Commander Shepherd.

As you note, third parties' party games, dance and fitness games (and sometimes shovelware) sold well. So that's what they released on the Wii. So I'm not sure how they should have capitalized on the expanded audience the Wii brought in besides creating more party, dance and fitness games. Furthermore, with such genres, I think the audience tends to consolidate around a series or brand - e.g. Just Dance.

The same scenario exists on Kinect, I imagine.

The audience for GTA and Skyrim was built. Just not on the Wii.

And at the end of the day, I would surmise with regard to entertainment dollars, that audience was highly volatile/fickle. And if Nintendo manages to capture that audience/demographic again with the Wii U, I still don't see it being a market for Dead Space or Bioshock.

Except initially when in the first year titles such as Resident Evil 4(I believe it sold double what Capcom was expecting), TP, RE:UC and other core titles sold very well. There was an audience at one point that would've accepted those kind of titles but after 2008/2009 they were gone.

Also there was a wide variety of different audiences purchasing the Wii than just soccer moms. TP was a launch title and was one of the highest Zelda titles ever. Other examples such as Tiger Woods released on the Wii was a runaway success but EA never bothered to follow up and create further full fledged sports titles.

 

[shinra-bansho]

The thing is though it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when you keep releasing rail shooters like Dead Space Extraction or RE Darkside Chronicles, when RE4 Wii sold like 2 million copies. There was clearly a market and third parties passed on it because they bought into their own bullshit.

Yes, I've seen it posted already. Resident Evil Wii sold 2 million copies.

But Resident Evil 5 subsequently doesn't release on the Wii and instead only on PCS360... so what does that audience do? Doesn't the audience for it simply get it on the PCS360?

I.e. doesn't the audience simply go where the games go.

Or is the implication that there was this 2M unit market that simply refused to get Resident Evil on any other platform and that instead of selling 6M units on the HD platforms they would have sold 8M units on PSWii60?

This notion that "after 2008 and 2009 they were gone"... Where did they go? Into the ether?

Isn't it simply that all the games this audience wanted were being released on other platforms - so they migrated to those platforms?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Yes, I've seen it posted already. Resident Evil Wii sold 2 million copies.

But Resident Evil 5 subsequently doesn't release on the Wii and instead only on PCS360... so what does that audience do? Doesn't the audience for it simply get it on the PCS360?

I.e. doesn't the audience simply go where the games go.

Or is the implication that there was this 2M unit market that simply refused to get Resident Evil on any other platform and that instead of selling 6M units on the HD platforms they would have sold 8M units on PSWii60?

This notion that "after 2008 and 2009 they were gone"... Where did they go? Into the ether?

Isn't it simply that all the games this audience wanted were being released on other platforms - so they migrated to those platforms?

I guess I don't really understand the point in building a brand on one platform and then moving it somewhere else. Like, "Looks like RE4 Wii blew past our expectations, better make the sequel for every platform but Wii!"

I'm sure it didn't hurt their business much in the long run, but I don't know, it just seems like faulty logic to me. Core gamers were clearly willing to give the Wii a chance. You have to keep in mind those 2 million gamers bought RE4 Wii in spite of the game being playable on Wii already (the gamecube version), as well as on the PS2.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yes, I've seen it posted already. Resident Evil Wii sold 2 million copies.

But Resident Evil 5 subsequently doesn't release on the Wii and instead only on PCS360... so what does that audience do? Doesn't the audience for it simply get it on the PCS360?

I.e. doesn't the audience simply go where the games go.

Or is the implication that there was this 2M unit market that simply refused to get Resident Evil on any other platform and that instead of selling 6M units on the HD platforms they would have sold 8M units on PSWii60?

This notion that "after 2008 and 2009 they were gone"... Where did they go? Into the ether?

Isn't it simply that all the games this audience wanted were being released on other platforms - so they migrated to those platforms?

Well yes, that's exactly the point. The point is that the audience could have been on Wii if there were more games to draw them to the Wii

EDIT: I see your point about new players

 

[Aaron Strife]

Also having your PR lackeys proclaim every Wii game a "test" is pretty condescending. RE4, RE:UC, Okami, and Dead Rising were all "tests."

Imagine this as a classroom scenario where Capcom is the teacher and gives tests to 2 students, one being the Wii (RE4) and the other being the PS360 (Dead Rising I guess). They both pass with flying colors.

Then the teacher turns around to the first student and says "Mm, I think we need to retest you just to be sure" and makes the test harder. The student passes it again, but with a slightly lower grade than the first time. (RE:UC)

The teacher looks at the results and frowns. "Hmm, you seem to have become stupider since the last test. What a strange phenomenon! I guess we'll have to keep testing you." Meanwhile the other student is in the back of the room playing gameboy. (Okami Wii)

The student takes the test yet again, this time even harder than the last one. He still manages a B, but the teacher is once again disappointed. "I can't believe your grade's been going down so much. This is clearly a problem. We'll give you one more test or you're kicked out of school." (Dead Rising Chop Til You Flop)

The student has had enough of this bullshit and skips testing day, while the other student gets free pizza (RE5) and ice cream (SF4) for no discernible reason other than being cool. The teacher calls the first student's parents and tells them they found lewd graffiti on the bathroom walls with his name on it.

The moral of the story is that school sucks.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I guess I don't really understand the point in building a brand on one platform and then moving it somewhere else. Like, "Looks like RE4 Wii blew past our expectations, better make the sequel for every platform but Wii!"

I'm sure it didn't hurt their business much in the long run, but I don't know, it just seems like faulty logic to me. Core gamers were clearly willing to give the Wii a chance. You have to keep in mind those 2 million gamers bought RE4 Wii in spite of the game being playable on Wii already (the gamecube version), as well as on the PS2.

I think at that point we reach the scenario of cost-benefit analyses with regard to ease of multiplatform development on the PS360 compared to the Wii and whether they believed that the audience would follow - which I think it did. Also, it's CACPCOM.

I just don't see someone, anyone, who really wants to play all these third party games not simply getting a console that has them.

I guess I'm just playing counterpoint/Devil's advocate to the notion that all this money was "left on the table" - when it could simply be the case that the money just moved to a different table?

 

[Aaron Strife]

I think at that point we reach the scenario of cost-benefit analyses with regard to ease of multiplatform development on the PS360 compared to the Wii and whether they believed that the audience would follow - which I think it did. Also, it's CACPCOM.

I just don't see someone, anyone, who really wants to play all these third party games not simply getting a console that has them.

I guess I'm just playing counterpoint/Devil's advocate to the notion that all this money was "left on the table" - when it could simply be the case that the money just moved to a different table?

I suppose I'm looking at it more from the perspective that a mainline RE on Wii would have been really sick and I would have been more likely to buy that than RE5, which I didn't buy. There's no doubt in my mind a good RE on Wii would have sold well and my frustration more comes from Capcom dicking around with games that were clearly destined to bomb.

Similar to the bullshit regarding passing up AA Investigations 2 (which has a built-in cult following that consistently buys every game) to do Okamiden and Ghost Trick (niche games that actually didn't sell well), or blaming the fans for not being excited enough about MM Legends 3.

 

[John Harker]

Pachter 'presumes' Darksiders 2 sold over 1M copies worldwide:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-09-07-darksiders-ii-sells-just-247-000-copies-in-us

I very much want it, but haven't purchased it yet because I'm too interested in the Wii U version!

 

[velvet_nitemare]

I very much want it, but haven't purchased it yet because I'm too interested in the Wii U version!

Any enhancements, added content, upgrades or whatever in the WiiU version announced? Are they using the tablet for something cool?

 

[ShironRedshift]

Any enhancements, added content, upgrades or whatever in the WiiU version announced? Are they using the tablet for something cool?

We... really don't know right now. Vigil's apparently being blocked from saying much about the Wii U version by Nintendo, last I heard. Hopefully that will change by the end of this week though.

 

[jvm]

Somewhat diff col this month. Does have NPD ASP for hardware. Sorry on iPod
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/177336/How_will_Microsoft_and_Sony_respond_to_the_Wii_U_launch.php
More NPD info later this week.

 

[Hammer24]

Somewhat diff col this month. Does have NPD ASP for hardware. Sorry on iPod
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/177336/How_will_Microsoft_and_Sony_respond_to_the_Wii_U_launch.php
More NPD info later this week.

Thx, very nice article. I completely agree with all your conclusions. MS and Sony will be forced to react to conter the WiiU launch. It´ll be interesting, how aggressively they are going to do it.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

It'll be interesting, how aggressively they are going to do it.

Well certainly Microsoft have more room to manoeuvre, considering they have not touched the price in two years.

 

[Hammer24]

Well certainly Microsoft have more room to manoeuvre, considering they have not touched the price in two years.

This is true, and like JVM argued, they could put the pressure on Sony too.
But will they really? They are now basically FOUR years without a pricecut. Certainly the parts prices are down now so they could have afforded these aggressive moves way earlier. Yet they didn´t, which seems rather complacent - and more focused on revenue than marketshare.
And what, if MS as well as Sony, dismiss Ninty as a competitor, internally more focussing on Google, Apple, Samsung and the likes? Both nowadays have a more service-driven approach and other worries than selling the most home consoles, I´d guess.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

This is true, and like JVM argued, they could put the pressure on Sony too.
But will they really? They are now basically FOUR years without a pricecut. Certainly the parts prices are down now so they could have afforded these aggressive moves way earlier. Yet they didn´t, which seems rather complacent - and more focused on revenue than marketshare.
And what, if MS as well as Sony, dismiss Ninty as a competitor, internally more focussing on Google, Apple, Samsung and the likes? Both nowadays have a more service-driven approach and other worries than selling the most home consoles, I´d guess.

Even if you only view Google/Apple/Samsung/Amazon as competitors, having the premium 360 cost more than the Nexus 7/Ipad Mini/Galaxy Note 10.1/Kindle Fire is simply an insane position to be in.

The Galaxy S3 sold 20 million units in 3 months. That's 20 million people with access to HBO Go, Netflix, Pandora, and Hulu Plus without paying into MS' walled garden. In 3 months. The iPhone 5 will sell even faster than that. If any of the videogame companies are taking the phone companies seriously as competitors, they certainly aren't acting like it.

 

[jvm]

Even if you only view Google/Apple/Samsung/Amazon as competitors, having the premium 360 cost more than the Nexus 7/Ipad Mini/Galaxy Note 10.1/Kindle Fire is simply an insane position to be in.

The Galaxy S3 sold 20 million units in 3 months. That's 20 million people with access to HBO Go, Netflix, Pandora, and Hulu Plus without paying into MS' walled garden. In 3 months. The iPhone 5 will sell even faster than that. If any of the videogame companies are taking the phone companies seriously as competitors, they certainly aren't acting like it.

It used to be that consoles offered access to media services in a way you couldn't get before. Using Netflix on the Xbox 360 and then the PS3 and Wii was a revelation, and it's no surprise that they generated a tremendous amount of traffic for the service.

The proliferation of these media services to other devices is eroding that advantage. That's why Microsoft will score big when their next system is a next-gen cable box that also downloads and plays Xbox games.

 

[Hammer24]

Even if you only view Google/Apple/Samsung/Amazon as competitors, having the premium 360 cost more than the Nexus 7/Ipad Mini/Galaxy Note 10.1/Kindle Fire is simply an insane position to be in.

The Galaxy S3 sold 20 million units in 3 months. That's 20 million people with access to HBO Go, Netflix, Pandora, and Hulu Plus without paying into MS' walled garden. In 3 months. The iPhone 5 will sell even faster than that. If any of the videogame companies are taking the phone companies seriously as competitors, they certainly aren't acting like it.

Well: Ninty doesn´t, Sony can´t, and MS will conter with their WinRT tablets. Neither the S3 nor the iPhone 5 compete with MS living room vision (where they placed the 360).
From the rumors, they´ll be pricing their own tablets very competitively. And I think SmartGlass is their way of answering any challenge coming to the living room.

 

[Hammer24]

That's why Microsoft will score big when their next system is a next-gen cable box that also downloads and plays Xbox games.

... plus enables you to use the divices (phones, tablets) you already own to interact with said box. This is a value proposition not to be underestimated.

 

[8byte]

I reject the notion that hardware is holding the industry back. All hardware at this point should be $199 or lower. That combined with the high launch price of new titles is holding the industry back. Revisions + lower prices would do more to revitalize this industry ATM than launching newer more expensive hardware during a shitty global economic slump.

 

[BishopLamont]

I think at that point we reach the scenario of cost-benefit analyses with regard to ease of multiplatform development on the PS360 compared to the Wii and whether they believed that the audience would follow - which I think it did. Also, it's CACPCOM.

I just don't see someone, anyone, who really wants to play all these third party games not simply getting a console that has them.

I guess I'm just playing counterpoint/Devil's advocate to the notion that all this money was "left on the table" - when it could simply be the case that the money just moved to a different table?

No one is asking Capcom to move RE5 or port it to the Wii. Why couldn't Capcom create an RE4-2 or something? Surely those 2M sales of RE4 signifies that a similar follow up would have sold well, instead they kept throwing shit at the wall and to their dismay none stuck.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

No MW3 is telling.

I dunno how 'telling' that is considering were 2 months away from a new one and it already made all its money 3 times over.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I dunno how 'telling' that is considering were 2 months away from a new one and it already made all its money 3 times over.

Simply means that it's the first time since the COD4-WaW transition where the fanbase has rejected the new game in favor of the old. It's also the first time that this has happened to IW.

So MW3 not charting is less a sign of series decline, and more a sign that the fanbase simply doesn't care for MW3 as much as Black Ops. If that's true, Black Ops 2 should sell better than Black Ops (and MW3).

 

[coldfoot]

That's why Microsoft will score big when their next system is a next-gen cable box that also downloads and plays Xbox games.

Unless Apple beats them first, not necessarily as a game console, but as a cable box. They were actively negotiating with cable companies, and although the negotiations have stalled for now, they are in a better position than anyone else I think.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

Simply means that it's the first time since the COD4-WaW transition where the fanbase has rejected the new game in favor of the old. It's also the first time that this has happened to IW.

So MW3 not charting is less a sign of series decline, and more a sign that the fanbase simply doesn't care for MW3 as much as Black Ops. If that's true, Black Ops 2 should sell better than Black Ops (and MW3).

In that sense yes. I used to be a IW fan and BO2 looks to be the best COD mp since COD4 so yea, thats definitely true.

 

[jvm]

Simply means that it's the first time since the COD4-WaW transition where the fanbase has rejected the new game in favor of the old. It's also the first time that this has happened to IW.

So MW3 not charting is less a sign of series decline, and more a sign that the fanbase simply doesn't care for MW3 as much as Black Ops. If that's true, Black Ops 2 should sell better than Black Ops (and MW3).

This is perhaps not appropriate for a sales thread, but I would be interested to know if this is more a matter of the success of Treyarch or the failure of IW. Also, I really hope Activision continues to put out graphs showing the activity on these games because it will be interesting to see how MW3 activity fares after BO2 comes along.

 

[Silly.Mikey]

This is perhaps not appropriate for a sales thread, but I would be interested to know if this is more a matter of the success of Treyarch or the failure of IW. Also, I really hope Activision continues to put out graphs showing the activity on these games because it will be interesting to see how MW3 activity fares after BO2 comes along.

Honestly, i think its both. IWs failure to evolve the franchise (and half the company leaving) and Treyarch being at the right place at the right time.

 

[Hammer24]

...they are in a better position than anyone else I think.

I would argue against that.
MS has the basic service environment all in place, something Apple would have to grow and groom.And they have shown time and again, that they are not willing to hand the living room to a competitor. I´d say they are willing to outspend and/or take losses again, to consolidate the foothold they got.
Why would Apple even want to get into a money losing business? They could, no doubt. But what would be in it for them?
Right now, strategically, they´d be better off to build their own TV brand with iOS functionality. Or even buy Panasonic and rebrand them. And we all know what a dirty business TV´s are nowadays.

 

[coldfoot]

I would argue against that.
MS has the basic service environment all in place, something Apple would have to grow and groom.

Apple has the iOS ecosystem and Apple TV.

And they have shown time and again, that they are not willing to hand the living room to a competitor. I´d say they are willing to outspend and/or take losses again, to consolidate the foothold they got.

Can't outspend Apple.

Why would Apple even want to get into a money losing business? They could, no doubt. But what would be in it for them?

How would it be money losing? Apple would sell their newfangled AppleTV's with a cable subscription, exactly like the iPhone model. They can easily add casual games where you'd use your iPhone or iPad as a controller as well. They will never go after the hardcore gamer market, which is where the money losing hardware is needed.

 

[BishopLamont]

This is perhaps not appropriate for a sales thread, but I would be interested to know if this is more a matter of the success of Treyarch or the failure of IW. Also, I really hope Activision continues to put out graphs showing the activity on these games because it will be interesting to see how MW3 activity fares after BO2 comes along.

I wouldn't blame MW3's failure on IW. The founders and many of the key developers left during its development, that is why Raven and Sledgehammer was brought in to finish the development. MW3 is still leading in active users, the only reason BLOPS is charting again is due to BLOPS2 hype. You can see that since August 11 that MW3 started making huge dents into BLOPS, suggesting players were moving to MW3 rather than staying with BLOPS. You can see a spike in MW2 players before that and then a spike in MW3, suggesting players were moving onto MW3 from MW2 rather than BLOPS. You can also see that at the end MW2 is trending up against BLOPS, the same way BLOPS is eating into MW3, but to come to conclusion that MW2 is somehow more desired is not the right conclusion. BLOPS 2 will sell massively, but its not going to stop the series decline.

 

[Hammer24]

How would it be money losing? Apple would sell their newfangled AppleTV's with a cable subscription, exactly like the iPhone model. They can easily add casual games where you'd use your iPhone or iPad as a controller as well. They will never go after the hardcore gamer market, which is where the money losing hardware is needed.

And thats the problem. They´d have a hard time getting a compelling value proposition together. MS would offer a way more capable box for decisively less money.
Sure, MS in the nd couldn´t outspend Apple. But why would Apple even go down that road, it´d be against everything they´ve done thus far.

 

[coldfoot]

And thats the problem. They´d have a hard time getting a compelling value proposition together. MS would offer a way more capable box for decisively less money.
Sure, MS in the nd couldn´t outspend Apple. But why would Apple even go down that road, it´d be against everything they´ve done thus far.

Value proposition would be there, you're forgetting that hardcore gamers are the minority. Not to mention, that if it's updated every year like other iOS devices, it'd catch up other consoles in power quite quickly for those few games that will require the newest version of the appleTV. It works the same way in iOS games. And as to why they'd go down this road is because they'd make money and add one more device to their iOS ecosystem, boosting the sales of other iOS devices as well. Like Vita's cross play, buy a game for your iPhone or iPad and you also get a version that's playable on the TV.

 

[Dabanton]

The BLOPS and MW3 thing is interesting.

I would say a lot of it according to some of the guys I play with is BLOPS has better maps including the infamous Nuketown it also has the awesome Firing Range.

I'm surprised that IW did not put in a couple of older maps into MW3 I know they gave us the airport one but they could have put a few more in.

 

[Hammer24]

Value proposition would be there, you're forgetting that hardcore gamers are the minority.

Yes, they are. But they are also the early adopters, who are willing to pay a premium and (at least in theory) can steer the market by their word of mouth and giving recommendations to less tech savvy people.

Not to mention, that if it's updated every year like other iOS devices, it'd catch up other consoles in power quite quickly for those few games that will require the newest version of the appleTV. It works the same way in iOS games.

Who says other manufacturers are not going to go down this way as well in the future? In years past everyone thought this to be a no-no, not wanting to fragment their userbase. But Apple has shown everyone that its possible, and can be very successfull.

And as to why they'd go down this road is because they'd make money and add one more device to their iOS ecosystem, boosting the sales of other iOS devices as well. Like Vita's cross play, buy a game for your iPhone or iPad and you also get a version that's playable on the TV.

This benefit is clear. But my argument is, that to get there, the price of entry could be very steep - there are easier markets to be had.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I wouldn't blame MW3's failure on IW. The founders and many of the key developers left during its development, that is why Raven and Sledgehammer was brought in to finish the development. MW3 is still leading in active users, the only reason BLOPS is charting again is due to BLOPS2 hype. You can see that since August 11 that MW3 started making huge dents into BLOPS, suggesting players were moving to MW3 rather than staying with BLOPS. You can see a spike in MW2 players before that and then a spike in MW3, suggesting players were moving onto MW3 from MW2 rather than BLOPS. You can also see that at the end MW2 is trending up against BLOPS, the same way BLOPS is eating into MW3, but to come to conclusion that MW2 is somehow more desired is not the right conclusion. BLOPS 2 will sell massively, but its not going to stop the series decline.

This. I'm still not convinced that this is just natural series decline rather than a "failure" on MW3's part. If MW3 really was this bad and loathed it wouldn't be number 1 on Xbox LIVE every month.

 

[coldfoot]

Yes, they are. But they are also the early adopters, who are willing to pay a premium and (at least in theory) can steer the market by their word of mouth and giving recommendations to less tech savvy people.

Less tech savvy people are likely to be more casual, which means they will get the Apple product over a competitor due to the ease of use. My parents would never own a game console, but they would own an Apple TV over their existing cable box.

Who says other manufacturers are not going to go down this way as well in the future? In years past everyone thought this to be a no-no, not wanting to fragment their userbase. But Apple has shown everyone that its possible, and can be very successfull.

Of course they will, therefore Apple will want to be ahead of them for competitive reasons. Google is pretty much nonexistant in the STB business (Google TV LOL) and MS is pretty much nonexistant in the mobile device business. Perfect time for Apple to dominate the STB market along with their mobile device market before Google steps in or MS increases their marketshare in the movile device market.

This benefit is clear. But my argument is, that to get there, the price of entry could be very steep - there are easier markets to be had.

I am not getting where you are getting this steep price of entry from. If anything, that's a benefit for Apple as consumers will pay steep prices for an Apple product over any other brand. Still don't see how you're going to get a steep cost for a set top box with the innards of an iPad.

 

[Hammer24]

I am not getting where you are getting this steep price of entry from. If anything, that's a benefit for Apple as consumers will pay steep prices for an Apple product over any other brand. Still don't see how you're going to get a steep cost for a set top box with the innards of an iPad.

My thinking is simply, that a rebranded iPod is not going to cut it in the (future) STB market. If they´d do that, MS would offer more for less.