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NPD July 2011 Sales Results [Update 4: Wii And PS3 Hardware, 3DS/DS Relatives]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
ThisWreckage
Banned
For the people saying that the PS3 won't receive a price cut:
What makes you think that? It's hard for me to imagine Sony allowing the PS3 to go three holiday seasons in a row priced at 299.99 or more.
What makes you think that? It's hard for me to imagine Sony allowing the PS3 to go three holiday seasons in a row priced at 299.99 or more.
BoilersFan23 said:
I've noticed the same thing too. For the last two or three weeks I've seen few if any in the local stores. I just noticed the other day that the local Walmart got some new units in. I'm not trying to excuse the poor sales, but I do wonder if low supply played a part.
This gen is starting to feel old. I was watching a rerun of Scrubs that showed Turk's Xbox 360 and then there was a rerun of Old Christine that mentioned the Xbox 360. Those shows haven't been on the air in quite some time.
ThisWreckage said:
I am not stating that Sony won't drop the price of the PS3 at ALL, but I'd be surprised if they dropped the price by $100.
My reasoning is that the size of the HD twins user base has pretty much guaranteed universal third party support for either system the rest of this generation. So while $100 cut may spur greater PS3 sales worldwide, the upside (increased user base) would be offset by the costs (little to no profit per sale) with little to really gain except some PR caveat ("we are number 2 worldwide!").
I would expect a $50 cut and some bundling this holiday. I also wonder if a $50 cut on the PS3 would force MS to do anything with 360 price (it might). This would be there 4th holiday at these price points I believe, if there is no change.
Here are my thoughts on July's NPD report:
- Slow Summer month, as expected by anyone who pays attention.
- Happy to see NCAA 12 increase YoY. It's the best football game OF ALL TIME. EA finally got the presentation right, and I've had family members say the game looked like a real broadcast. :lol
- MK9 has some legs to it. I don't think I've seen another fighting game with these continued sales.
- The X360 and PS3 are both in need of a price cut. Hopefully the PS3's cut forces MS to cut as well. I see a $50 cut for both.
- Software sales yet again show how removed GAF is from the larger gaming community. Just look at the list:
None fo the Top 7 selling games had any considerable hype on GAF. Catherine, IMO, will be very lucky to chart next month.
- Slow Summer month, as expected by anyone who pays attention.
- Happy to see NCAA 12 increase YoY. It's the best football game OF ALL TIME. EA finally got the presentation right, and I've had family members say the game looked like a real broadcast. :lol
- MK9 has some legs to it. I don't think I've seen another fighting game with these continued sales.
- The X360 and PS3 are both in need of a price cut. Hopefully the PS3's cut forces MS to cut as well. I see a $50 cut for both.
- Software sales yet again show how removed GAF is from the larger gaming community. Just look at the list:
None fo the Top 7 selling games had any considerable hype on GAF. Catherine, IMO, will be very lucky to chart next month.
StoppedInTracks
Member
What in the hell can Sony do to boost PS3? They have the games both exclusive (Killzone, Uncharted) and most popular at the market at the time (Call of Duty, Final Fantasy), they have the hardware (slim), they have the features (free online, Blu-Ray, 3D)... why isn't PS3 selling more? Is Uncharted and Killzone only hyped online? I really do not understand.
MeBecomingI
Member
StoppedInTracks said:
They don't have Kinect... Sony has a huge library of amazing games (lot of exclusives) and a lot of value and they still can't meet those sales numbers of the 360.
Otherwise, I think the North American market is very much becoming a 360 market. I don't think there is much that Sony can do at this point to bring themselves into 360 # territory, but they can certainly boost sales permanently with a huge price drop.
StoppedInTracks said:
Some of it is because of the decline in the Sony brand over the past 2-3 years. Sony used to be able to charge a premium for its products but got passed by in the TV market and portable electronics market.
The news about the Sony internet intrusions this past spring.
The decline of the PS3 as being the best value blu ray player and the decline of blu ray awareness/sales in general.
Lack of spending money affects all consoles but especially the one percieved to be the highest in cost.
Alx
Member
StoppedInTracks said:
They need a brand-defining feature. The games are fine, but they're nothing more than new samples of common genres. There's nothing on the PS3 that is so specific that it has no equivalent on the competition, and could justify the higher price.
Well it has the blu-ray, but obviously that's not enough (I suppose that dedicated blu-ray players are too common now for it to be a strong bullet point).
OldJadedGamer
Banned
ThisWreckage said:
Sony projected the same sales numbers last year that they did this year. Last year was $299 of course. So this year in order for a price drop to work, they have to expect a huge drop in sales and the price drop will bring them backto previous years numbers. They are not projecting a boost in sales like they have previously when a price drop happened.
StoppedInTracks said:
Cut the PS3's price. That's always a safe bet to do to spur sales.
But yes, Sony's console dominance is over, has been for years now actually. In fact, the entire Sony brand has taken a (tremendous) fall from grace over the past decade.....HDTVs, portable music players, electronics, and now finally console hardware. All markets where Sony isn't the top dog anymore.
None of that should matter to the average consumer though, especially gamers. PS3 has some amazing games, with no signs of that stopping. Uncharted 3 will be awesome.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
claviertekky said:
I think we all kind of forget in 2011 that the Wii should be outselling the PS3. Really, it should be the best selling console every week, but I feel like it reached its saturation point rather early.
In the US atleast, it seems that way. I recall in the early 90s, video games consoles were called, "Nintendo" to most consumers.. say like Kleenex is to tissue. In the late 90s it became "Playstation". In context, "Those meddling kids and their Playstations!"LosDaddie said:
Today its "Xbox". "Those meddling kids and their Xboxs!" When in reality those kids are probably playing DSs, Playstations and/or Xboxs. But the Playstation brand has really plummeted over the last 6 or 7 years in the US. And for the sake of Xbox, its not even recognized as a MS product.. just "Xbox".
I think this is why MS retired the Games for Windows Live name, its all going to be Xbox Live, whether its on your Xbox, your Windows Phone or Windows itself. Hell even gamesforwindows.com now redirects you to a sub site on xbox.com for PC games. The Xbox brand is very powerful now, perhaps the only real success for MS outside of Windows and Office.
It also means a guarantee that the next MS console will carry the Xbox brand in the name.. its a wild success for MS.
Captain Tuttle
Member
Why?Mr. Serious Business said:
StoppedInTracks said:
They need a price cut. Even so I doubt that alone would be enough. I seem to remember reading that the $299 360 outsells the $199 unit.
Sony should have had a value bundled Move like MS did with Kinect. Instead they just bundled it and charged extra. As much as I think highly of the PS3 one thing it lacks is a real defining crossover hit in the US. Xbox has Halo and Gears, Nintendo has Mario and their stable of reliable IPs but Sony doesn't seem to have that one big mainstream hit.
Edit: Uncharted is Sony's big hitter this gen, but it doesn't seem to have the mainstream clout that Halo commands. Killzone and Resistance are fine series too but they haven't really set the charts on fire either.
bigtroyjon
Member
OldJadedGamer said:
They have had a significant drop in sales and they didn't even meet the target last year. The only thing that explains their projection right now would be the expected price cut.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Captain Tuttle said:
It has widespread casual appeal and an appealing control scheme. It doesn't have the excitement or the ridiculous sales it had 4/5 years ago, but it should still be leading the market (since it's the market leader). I don't find it odd if it gets outsold by the 360, given that the 360 also has large appeal to all audiences now (particularly with XBLA and Kinect). But if the Wii is being outsold by the PS3, you know something's wrong.
I'm not surprised that it's not the top seller every week, but from a market perspective, it should be. The PS2 didn't drop off in a similar manner.
Mr. Serious Business said:
3rd parties supported the market leader in the past with quality software. They aren't doing the same today, and the platform carrier has mostly moved its teams onto prep to make sure their next home console doesn't have an inexplicably poor launch lineup.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Third parties and even Nintendo abandoned the Wii. There is no new exciting software for the system outside of a few exceptions.Mr. Serious Business said:
PS2 had good support until the PS3 and even after.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Fantastical said:
Pretty much. My point was that the Wii should be outselling the 360 and PS3, just that the system's games lineup has been very poorly handled (and I feel like it was abandoned prematurely much like the GBA). If Nintendo continued to support the Wii, it would have had the ridiculous sales consistency that the PS2 had.
Mr. Serious Business said:
And then the WiiU launch would mirror the 3DS launch, or worse. Nintendo has primary blame, but to say that third parties don't share in that would be disingenuous. Most haven't thrown any real support at it since the start of the generation, even when it was sold out for like 2 years. You can fool people with shovelware and "tests" only so many times.
They were thinking "yeah, we should really make some 3DS and WiiU software, considering good games take 2+ years to make"
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Oh okay, yeah I totally agree. Not sure what Nintendo was thinking there.Mr. Serious Business said:
Mr. Serious Business said:
I don't think that's necessarily the case. A single company, no matter how talented, can only sustain things for so long.
Very long term, PS2 like success takes the work of multiple companies all working in unison. They provide a variety of approaches and products so that even if one company isn't doing particularly well -- or has no big games scheduled for the next few months or even year -- then someone else is there to pick it up for them.
That's why Nintendo's consoles often seem "inconsistent" to people. A single company cannot smoothly produce a line of games that ship conveniently one after the other in a tight, efficient launch schedule. The reason the 360/PS3 seem more consistent is that they have a variety of companies producing top level quality games -- again, this makes it so that even if one stumbles, or has nothing planned, another is likely able to take its place.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
StevieP said:
Nintendo doesn't have to abandon their last console for their next launch to be successful. The 3DS launch period was a failure for various reasons, but it didn't have much to do with the continued popularity of the DS (unless it was people confusing the two systems). Even if the Wii continued to be successful now and into the next couple years, the Wii U would be able to differentiate itself if its launch was well handled.
As for third parties, they've definitely screwed up. I feel like Ubisoft (and to a lesser extent, Sega) are really the only ones who "get it." EA has had their moments too, but they now seem to be more concerned with competing with Activision over HD blockbusters. I'd say it's typical for Nintendo systems to have either too little support, or far too much (although I thought the SNES hit the sweet spot). Difference is, Nintendo just gave up like with the GBA.
Edit: Oh boy that's a lot of quotes.
BurntPork said:
Which I feel was a huge mistake by Nintendo. The GBA sold over 40 million in the Americas, and the DS was released only 3 years later. However, this time, Nintendo abandoned the Wii prematurely and is waiting twice that time to release its successor. They could have kept supporting it with some level of quality software, but they haven't.
Opiate said:
I agree with you that the lack of third party support has left the Wii's game line-up as tepid at best. However, then you have a console like the DS which has been having humongous sales (consistent over the years) while essentially still living off of Nintendo titles that have been out for years (NSMB, Mario Kart, Brain Training, etc.). As far as I'm aware, the DS hasn't had the benefit of huge blockbuster titles like the PS2 had, and even the biggest recent title was a Nintendo game (Pokemon Black/White), which is why I believe Nintendo systems can be the exception to this rule. However, Nintendo hasn't released any equivalent blockbusters on the Wii as of late, and the biggest recent launch seems to be Just Dance 2 (a third party title). Given the success of the DS versus the Wii, I believe the latter is faltering due to a lack of Nintendo support, especially given that the Wii's best sales periods (such as in 2008) were built off of blockbuster Nintendo titles.
This is what I expected out of game sales this year. The release list has been so barren aside from Dead Space 2, LA Noire, and Mortal Kombat that I was flabbergasted at the numbers the 360 was putting up; what new releases were pushing the damn thing?
3DS and DS being flat YoY is no surprise to me. The 3DS's greatest competition is the DS and its price point. iOS has expanded the pie, there has been limited if any consumption of Nintendo's.
3DS and DS being flat YoY is no surprise to me. The 3DS's greatest competition is the DS and its price point. iOS has expanded the pie, there has been limited if any consumption of Nintendo's.
Mr. Serious Business said:
HD titles take longer to develop than DS titles and even SD titles, due to the generally higher asset creation time. If the Wii U is to launch in 2012, they needed to be making and/or conceptualizing shit 2 years ago. And they probably were. It's the same reason that Halo 4 will be released for the next Xbox unless 343 has been working on it for 2 years already. As the 3DS has proven, you need something substantial for launch. And as third parties have shown, they're not willing to bring their A-game unless it requires little effort and investment.
The DS has a healthy ecosystem (like the PS2 did) because of great support. The Wii was almost singlehandedly supported by Nintendo and a few third party evergreens.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
StoppedInTracks said:
I have some theories:
* Blu-ray isn't the selling point it once was with most Blu-ray players with Netflix support can be bought for 1/3 the price of the PS3 and not have to be used as a game machine... i.e. little Johnny isn't playing video games when Mom and dad want to watch a movie.
* 5 years later and it's still the most expensive console and just as expensive as the PS2 was the day it launched.
* Gamers don't care about exclusive games as much as people think. While exclusive games are very important at the beginning of a consoles life, this deep in the generation most people are buying big third party games and since there are no more third party exclusives it comes down to what system gives them the cheapest experience and that is not the PS3. If you just want to play COD or Madden, it costs you $100 more but they are the exact same games.
* It seems that the PS3 has lost mindshare and people who don't care between the two may be buying a 360 just because their friends have one. Not only to play online games with but to borrow games from, controllers, and the such. If 3 guys are in an office and a 4th asks them what system they should buy, the other 3 are going to tell him to get the system they own regardless of what system that is. Right now in the US, that is the 360.
* Most people while may not like paying for online, they hear it is the best and their friends have it so the free online doesn't mean as much if they can't play with their friends.
These are some things that have popped in my head as to why some random dude who doesn't care which one he buys would pick one over another in a store. I could be wrong on all points or could be right on all points. Just some ideas since there has to be some reason out there.
StoppedInTracks
Member
LosDaddie said:
Yeah I don't really care about sales numbers or whatever and love my PS3 but at the same time keep on scratching my head why doesn't it work for Sony. They have all the tools there but somehow cannot make them work together in the US.
I'm happy with my PS3 and don't regret buying it (slim for $299) a bit.
Beer Monkey
Member
If Sony cuts the price and gets traction I see MS dropping the core system down to as low as $99.99 if that's what it takes to maintain their North American advantage.
I don't see Sony reversing their fortunes in this market this generation.
I don't see Sony reversing their fortunes in this market this generation.
DangerousDave
Member
StoppedInTracks said:
Let's see...it's a japanese console than is very similar (sharing 95% of the catalogue) to an american console. And more expensive.
I think that there is always a little of "national pride" in sales (maybe not for hardcore gamers, but for most of other people) that affect the sales. Not directly, but is a matter of "trust". This explain why PS3 sell much less than 360 in US, a little less than 360 in UK, and the same or even more in continental europe (and, well, much more in Japan).
PS2 (with the big amount of exclusives) or Wii (with all the motion thing) have some unique experiences that make them sell a lot independently of the nation of the brand, but with a PS3 so similar in games to 360, is like a more expensive Honda car trying to beat in sales a cheaper Ford car but with similar specs. Is simply not possible unless that Honda car manage to be cheaper than the Ford one.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
The reason each annual CoD has a bigger launch then the last is because CoD is the most consistent system seller for the PS3 and 360. Black Ops has not left the top 10 since launch.evangd007 said:
In the context of the current discussion, the Wii software drought coincides with a noticeable lack of third party content. Nintendo cannot keep a platform afloat forever with just its own titles, the internal devs need time to reload, franchise fatigue sets in, and even evergreen titles eventually lose their gotta-have-it status.
In the same way that consistent 3rd party (most of them multiplatform) sales have driven consistent PS360 adoption, the Wii's utterly barren release schedule makes it hard to drum up consumer interest. When you turn on your television, you see commercials for new PS360 games that just came out. When you go to Gamestop, the store posters, demo reels, demo kiosks, and preorder campaigns are all PS360 games. The Wii is currently bundled with a few games that are several years old. All this gives the perception of a "yesterday's news" console.
kame-sennin
Member
B!TCH said:
In a month where NSMB, which came out in 2006, is in the top ten, it really boggles the mind why NSMB2 wasn't a launch game for the 3DS.
Mr. Serious Business said:
The Wii isn't saturated, it's dried out. Nintendo doesn't want to release software for it, never mind the kind of hit games they were putting out in the first few years. That's the only reason why Wii is struggling.
BurntPork said:
The DS had fantastic third party support. Nintendo's problem is that cinematic, graphics focused, HD games do not match their philosophy, so they will never get those games. If they want third party support, they have to build a platform where 2D games and pick-up-and-play games are welcome. That's the kind of third party support that matches their philosophy and helps drive their console sales. The problem with the 3DS is that its trying to compete (philosophically) with the XBOX/PS3/Vita instead of the NES/SNES/GB.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Man, No More Heroes on Wii is such a waste. If Suda 51 just made a game for the HD consoles it would sell soooooo many more copies. Fucking casuals.
test_account
XP-39C²
Does anyone know if any scalpers manage to make money on the 3DS at launch? Or was the 3DS always available even right after launch? I remember seeing someone here mention that a friend of him had pre-ordered 5x 3DS, so i just wondered if anyone managed to resell the 3DS with profit.
kame-sennin
Member
OldJadedGamer said:
I don't know why it's never suggested that the market simply doesn't want PS3's exclusive games. It seems like every reason under the sun is tossed out to explain PS3 sales except a lack of mass market software. I'm not saying the games don't have amazing production values, or that the exclusives sell poorly. But it is clear that the appeal of these games has not been enough to push PS3 into the number 2 or number 1 position.
Infamous Chris
Banned
OldJadedGamer said:
Agree, with retail experience that proves this.
1) X number of retail exclusives don't matter, especially when most aren't big hitters; they go unnoticed by the majority of the population. Word of mouth is what sells consoles, not "X number of exclusives" like many fanboys and my very own forum-dwelling brethren seem to believe. Online hiveminds, very much including GAF, sometimes don't realize how much of a minority we are.
2) The online thing is true, as well. I only notice little kids who don't have jobs or console loyalists mentioning the free online thing in my store. Most of the time I hear customers talking about how good Live is, and they think that's why it costs money (when the truth is MS has been charging since like 2002). Parents never, ever mention it. EVER, even if they know PSN is free. They just pay for a subscription.
3) I believe that the above I mentioned works for Europe, as well, except one thing: MS doesn't support EU the way it does NA. AT ALL. There's Live features Europeans can't get, and it's complained about alot. Also, the deeper into the EU you go, the further away MS is involved. Many, many parts of Europe recieve no advertisements of Xbox 360's at ALL, and most people in those countries don't even know what an Xbox is outside of very small, niche hardcore communities. It's also like this in places like India, where Sony has marketing efforts for their consoles and Microsoft is only known for computers and not for being a console manufacturer.
Many people on GAF seem to believe Europeans simply prefer the PS3 and that's why, although sales are neck in neck between both consoles in Europe, it's slightly in favor of PS3 there. For the most part, I believe the people who think that are wrong. Maybe Microsoft can see this and step it up next gen across ALL regions; that would truly give Sony a run for their money more then this gen.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
claviertekky said:
Hasn't the Wii outsold the PS3 almost every month this year?
AceBandage
Banned
StevieP said:
It is.
Exactly, all those revered PS 3 exclusives are nothing more than "me too" products, which don't offer anything new over the competing products. Therefore they are not helping the plaform in establishing its own identity. So people should not be surprised that PS 3 lives in shadows of a "go to" dudebro console.kame-sennin said: