insert_username_here
Member
Well cause contrary to most major publishers belief's, generic shooters don't actually equal money.
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NPD Sales Results for February 2012 [Up 3: Kingdoms Of Amalur, Syndicate, Asura]
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
Well cause contrary to most major publishers belief's, generic shooters don't actually equal money.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Post-Skyrim effect
Word of mouth seemed to be really good with that game but that's obviously not a measurable effect. Other than that I have no idea either.
highrider
Banned
yeah, it's so much better than most fps games on console right now.
It's really interesting that Skyrim 360 basically outsold FF13-2 360 for the month.
I totally forgot that Reckoning was a EA partners game. That makes this situation even sadder.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Oh maybe thats the answer I was looking for. I'm not sure, haven't seen the raw data, just aggregates. cause the 13-2 is closer to ~275... maybe thats not with LE
Curt Schilling posted on GAF saying that the reception to the demo was quite strong and provided very good (and free) promotion.
In the top 25 according to joystiq.
shinra-bansho
Member
Wow. Shows how high Bethesda has risen and how far SE has fallen.
Also, I bet Reckoning is the second best seller for the month if it included Steam and Origin numbers.
Cool, didn't realize Schilling started post here as well. Thanks for pointing it out.
Clever Pun
Member
I know this is just a personal anecdote, but Skyrim is the first Elder Scrolls game I've every purchased, and XIII-2 is the only FF (other than XIV) that I don't own. I'll pick it up eventually, but the "I need this now" mentality I've always had with FF is kind of gone now.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
lol Syndicate. Wow.
The whole EA Parner's program is weird to me. So EA publishes the game, but doesn't own the rights to it. How does it help EA if it becomes successful? What stops a game from being made by a developer and published by EA, and then the dev getting a different publisher for a sequel, effectively getting EA to market a game that they may never see another dollar from?
I think the idea behind partners is good for developers, but it doesn't give enough of an incentive to the publishers.
As far as Overstrike, it'll likely do lackluster numbers. Insomniac aren't some amazing caliber developers, and most of their recent games have failed to sell more than average. Going multi-plat and losing the special-ness you get from being exclusive on one platform, and developing a game that no one is even talking about isn't gonna help them. Is EA going to give up stage time to Insomniac at E3 in order for them to push Overstrike, like Sony did for the Resistance series? I just don't see anything other than a 'meh' game with 'meh' sales when I see that game. I think the worst thing Insomniac did was to leave the guaranteed money of working with SCE. The videogame business is filled with developers who go under after a game doesn't sell and they lose support. Even after all of their spectacular failures with SCE, they were still pumping out games. Not sure EA is gonna be in the business for that.
I was more referring to Kingdoms getting so many sales.
The Emperor
Member
But FFXII didn't sell less than FFXIII.
Shipped /= Sold
FFXII is still in the hands of more consumers last we heard.
And even then FFXII was the last FF of its generation, so like FF9 it's sales were bound to be low as the system it was on was close to dead.
Clear
Member
SE made XIII-2 because it was quick and cheap to turn out. Playing the two back-to-back was an eye-opener.
Just compare it to X-2, which recycled scene assets in much the same way, but had a completely new battle system and a ton of flashy new CG. If you add in X-2 International, that version had additional scenes, a 40hr plus monster capture/breeding/arena system and a whole additional game "Last Mission".
There is absolutely no comparison in terms of units required to turn a profit.
Just compare it to X-2, which recycled scene assets in much the same way, but had a completely new battle system and a ton of flashy new CG. If you add in X-2 International, that version had additional scenes, a 40hr plus monster capture/breeding/arena system and a whole additional game "Last Mission".
There is absolutely no comparison in terms of units required to turn a profit.
Messofanego
Banned
I think the more important question is, why doesn't EA do any marketing for their EA Partner games? This is what's scaring us fans of the developers under that program. Do you need to sell your rights to get some marketing?
I think it goes on a game-by-game basis. For example, Syndicate and Shadows of the Damned ran way over budget in development so EA simply cut their losses instead of throwing more money into marketing.
EA also said somewhat recently that they would focus on internally developed titles more.
Perhaps it would be better to think of EA Partner as giving independent developers access to EA's distribution system and retailer relationships and not as a typical publishing agreement. Aren't most EA partner games self-funded by the developer? I am sure there is flexibility in agreements but the more promotion EA does the bigger the cut they demand from the game, at least that is what I suppose.
You sure about that?
The Antitype
Banned
LOL, what the heck is the point of those Azura's Wrath and Syndicate numbers? They each only had four days...
Puppet Shadow
Member
So over the next five weeks, they'll at least double, maybe triple those numbers you think?
Yeah, and they probably won't sell much more than that/if any in the next month.
I think you have to go deeper to explain Syndicate's sales than it being a generic fps sent to die. Almost everybody expected the game to struggle but not that bad. Measly 26k copies in 4 days? I thought it's going to around Bulletstorm's first month (~270k) if somewhat lower, but it really tanked.
Maybe Bulletstorm wasn't as generic but it had to compete with KZ3. Both Bulletstorm and Syndicate don't have a competetive MP mode so i don't know if attributing its very low sales to that is feasible.
The Darkness II is also fps lacking competetive MP and it did better (~100k i think someone here noted), ofc nothing to write home about. D2 also had a 4 player co-op missions, much like Syndicate, so i say Syndicate was hurt by D2 launching earlier in the month.
Syndicate being turned to FPS wasn't a consideration at all for your typical 360\PS3 gamer.
The Darkness II being an IP that is fresher in the minds of current console owners also probably helped it.
Maybe Bulletstorm wasn't as generic but it had to compete with KZ3. Both Bulletstorm and Syndicate don't have a competetive MP mode so i don't know if attributing its very low sales to that is feasible.
The Darkness II is also fps lacking competetive MP and it did better (~100k i think someone here noted), ofc nothing to write home about. D2 also had a 4 player co-op missions, much like Syndicate, so i say Syndicate was hurt by D2 launching earlier in the month.
Syndicate being turned to FPS wasn't a consideration at all for your typical 360\PS3 gamer.
The Darkness II being an IP that is fresher in the minds of current console owners also probably helped it.
Pureauthor
Member
Look. This excuse gets trotted out everything single month for dozens upon dozens of games (and in some cases, hardware), and I cannot recall a single time when the second month ever bore fruit for the game. Either it tanks straight out or it slowly, over a long period of time, becomes evergreen.
You think AW and Syndicate qualify for that?
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
GTA3, off the top of my head. It didn't go critical mass until a few months down the line.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Wow @ those Syndicate numbers.
Borderlands is a great counterpoint to my argument. But it's sort of special in that it offers an open world and a super long campaign. That was clearly enough to make people think they were getting their money's worth. With Syndicate, however, I feel that they didn't do a good enough job convincing players that there's enough content to keep them engaged for weeks or months to come. There are tons of things to upgrade, sure, but what's the point when you're just running through the same set of linear levels over and over again?
Of course, it was also hurt by zero advertising and next to zero brand recognition.
I have no idea how the business stucture of the works, but I have some ideas how it might work. The companies get to keep their IP's, but get top tier marketing from a big publisher (in theory of course). This actually has done for a long time in the industry. EA pays some aspect of the development (instead of all), markets it and if it fails they can cut it loose. If it's a succes, tighter contracts and get to keep it under their umbrella for a long time.
EA had promoted their various partner games during big events though. The first thing that comes to mind is Shadows of The Damned, in which the brought the creative team on stage. For me, the partner program feels like they wanted to publish more risky games just to show the public that they support new games. They really didn't believe in the titles, it was just a generated for publicity and look how "edgy" they are.
On the other hand, there was a management shakeup more recently and the result of that is that EA Play (their casual business) got put on the forefront. Heck, the guy who use to run the EA partners program is now focusing on the casual brand. Maby it's a little bit of both my observations though, but to see EA drop the ball so much on the partner program is baffeling — it's like they want it or deliberately to fail.
shinra-bansho
Member
Hmm...
So google tells me that Final Fantasy X-2 did 402K in November 2003. (Can anyone confirm this?)
Less days in November vs full month February - should kind of cancel out?
But I'm not seeing how FFXIII-2 is that big of a bomba.
EDIT: Oh it was posted earlier in the thread... yeah not seeing the bomba. Japan - definitely. US - seems in line with lesser sales for FF in general.
So google tells me that Final Fantasy X-2 did 402K in November 2003. (Can anyone confirm this?)
Less days in November vs full month February - should kind of cancel out?
But I'm not seeing how FFXIII-2 is that big of a bomba.
EDIT: Oh it was posted earlier in the thread... yeah not seeing the bomba. Japan - definitely. US - seems in line with lesser sales for FF in general.
What do you think the sales trend for a game looks like after the first week?
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Almost certainly a "right of first refusal" clause.
Syndicate case is even weirder as it's EA's IP (or did they sold it to Starbreeze?)
alexandros
Banned
I totally agree.
Flakster99
Member
With my interests at the heart of the matter, you're damn right I also agree. I felt the same way when Shadowrun was announced.
So far we know it is still a EA IP.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Right, they need to keep the momentum going and Wii-U is going to take a lot of focus away from the current platforms.
FFXII's last shipped number that I know of is 5.2M. FFXIII has shipped 6.2M units, and was being reordered into 2011. It seems unlikely to me that there's still a million unsold FFXIII on retailers shelves right now. In any event, as far I know there's no evidence pointing definitively in either direction, which is why I asked for clarification.
It's still EA's IP. They just seem to care about it as little as they care about their EA Partners games.
Sohter.Nura
Member
It's the end of the generation folks, the IPs are all set standard in the consumer's mind. I'm pretty sure this always happens.
At this point, I really just don't see any new IP being a runaway success, developers and publishers are going to wait for next-gen to develop new IPs.
The problem is that at this point there are WAY too many games for customers to buy.
You can buy a new 360 and get, whatever, Syndicate or Asura's Wrath, but then you look at the shelf and you see CoD4, CoD MW2, Halo 3, 4, Gears of War, Skyrim, Oblivion, etc.
You don't really have a lot of games but you have heard your friends talking about it before. So then you can either buy a new game like Asura's Wrath at full price, or you can buy this SLEW of older games are much more discounted prices
At this point, I really just don't see any new IP being a runaway success, developers and publishers are going to wait for next-gen to develop new IPs.
The problem is that at this point there are WAY too many games for customers to buy.
You can buy a new 360 and get, whatever, Syndicate or Asura's Wrath, but then you look at the shelf and you see CoD4, CoD MW2, Halo 3, 4, Gears of War, Skyrim, Oblivion, etc.
You don't really have a lot of games but you have heard your friends talking about it before. So then you can either buy a new game like Asura's Wrath at full price, or you can buy this SLEW of older games are much more discounted prices
Again, for that to be true, there would need to be 1M units on shelves. It would be very surprising for that to happen particularly when 700K of those units shipped after the game's release date.
Do you have actual numbers to back up your assertion?
Lagspike_exe
Member
Europe - 1.1 million, which was the same for FFXII.