Sony Interactive Entertainment reveals that 4.2m PlayStation VR units were sold

Afro Republican

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The Telestar came out 3 years into the generation. The Atari Pong console came out 4 years in. In today's terms, that would be as if these released in 2018 and 2019, which is exactly where the headsets I mentioned are releasing.

You're dates are wrong, but that what's happens when you don't do research and rely on poor wiki lists. (You do realize 4 years into the gen would be 1977 right? Which is when the 2600 came out so you clearly have your dates wrong)

Also you ignored the other flaw in your post, that the PSVR was not first.
 

VincentMatts

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Im still waiting for VR to catch my attention. Its just too dumbed down right now. Everything feels like an experience.
 

Wonko_C

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You're dates are wrong, but that what's happens when you don't do research and rely on poor wiki lists. (You do realize 4 years into the gen would be 1977 right? Which is when the 2600 came out so you clearly have your dates wrong)

Also you ignored the other flaw in your post, that the PSVR was not first.

DarthBuzzer might have got the data specifics wrong but the point still comes across: The earlier game consoles didn't exactly set the world on fire. PSVR is part of the first generation of mass-produced, consumer grade VR headsets. This is just planting the seeds like those consoles did more than 40 years ago.
 
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Afro Republican

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DarthBuzzer might have got the data specifics wrong but the point still comes across:

No it doesn't because PSVR wasn't first.

You guys aren't getting that through your heads, the comparison to Magnavox is invalid.
 

DarthBuzzer

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You're dates are wrong, but that what's happens when you don't do research and rely on poor wiki lists. (You do realize 4 years into the gen would be 1977 right? Which is when the 2600 came out so you clearly have your dates wrong)

Also you ignored the other flaw in your post, that the PSVR was not first.
I had the dates back to front. Flip them around and they are correct. That was just me messing them up in my head. 4 years would be 1976 by the way. 1972->1976.

No it doesn't because PSVR wasn't first.

You guys aren't getting that through your heads, the comparison to Magnavox is invalid.
Gear VR was among the first in 2015, and that sold 10 million+ units, but is obviously a much lower price.
 
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Wonko_C

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No it doesn't because PSVR wasn't first.

You guys aren't getting that through your heads, the comparison to Magnavox is invalid.

Didn't say it was first, I said it was PART of the first generation. Darth could've picked any other console of the first generation and the point would still have come across.
 

Afro Republican

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I had the dates back to front. Flip them around and they are correct. That was just be messing them up in my head. 4 years would be 1976 by the way. 1972->1976.

Gear VR was among the first in 2015, and that sold 10 million+ units, but is obviously a much lower price.

Gear VR wasn't the first either, but this proves my point either way you're comparison doesn't really work. I think the only way that the next PSVR is going to do much better than this is being at launch and having an optional bundle (or a short-term mandatory one).

There are many reasons why VR hype only flashed for awhile and died off. It's got nothing to do with it being the "first generation" of hardware, which seems like a lazy scapegoat to blame. We saw the hype for VR, and all those job openings for Demos because it was in demand. But that didn't hold for but a short time, and growth has basically stalled overall. VR has more reasons why people aren't getting it.
 

DarthBuzzer

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Gear VR wasn't the first either, but this proves my point either way you're comparison doesn't really work. I think the only way that the next PSVR is going to do much better than this is being at launch and having an optional bundle (or a short-term mandatory one).

There are many reasons why VR hype only flashed for awhile and died off. It's got nothing to do with it being the "first generation" of hardware, which seems like a lazy scapegoat to blame. We saw the hype for VR, and all those job openings for Demos because it was in demand. But that didn't hold for but a short time, and growth has basically stalled overall. VR has more reasons why people aren't getting it.
As long as software support is no worse (I'm sure it will be a lot better actually) then it will likely grow much faster than PSVR1. It can only do so naturally as the tech evolves. People generally love VR once trying it, but realize they need spec improvements, comfort improvements, and AAA content to truly buy in.

I would expect industry-wide rapid exponential growth to start around 2022 as the tech will be widely different than today.

VR hype dying off is entirely normal. This happens for almost all 1st gen technologies. It tends to be described as the gartner hype cycle.

Growth has doubled on PC (SteamVR) in both 2017/2018. Standalone sales of Oculus Go are exceeding expectations, and Oculus Quest is an even better shot at gaining traction. PSVR also had it's fastest growth period since release in the last year.

This tells us two things: Hype is down (normal), but growth is occurring albeit slowly.
 
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Afro Republican

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As long as software support is no worse (I'm sure it will be a lot better actually) then it will likely grow much faster than PSVR1. It can only do so naturally as the tech evolves. People generally love VR once trying it, but realize they need spec improvements, comfort improvements, and AAA content to truly buy in.

I would expect industry-wide rapid exponential growth to start around 2022 as the tech will be widely different today.

VR hype dying off is entirely normal. This happens for almost all 1st gen technologies. It tends to be described as the gartner hype cycle.

Growth has doubled on PC (SteamVR) in 2017/2018. Standalone sales of Oculus Go are exceeding expectations, and Oculus Quest is an even better shot at gaining traction. PSVR also had it's fastest growth period since release in the last year.

This tells us two things: Hype is down (normal), but growth is occurring albeit slowly.

The Hype for VR died to fast to blame the hardware, especially since most of the sales for VR happened on the mobile VRS which has the worse hardware. That's to easy of a scapegoat.

Also overall market is actually down because some of the VR options that were doing well relatively are now dropping gradually in sales.
 

demigod

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Gear VR wasn't the first either, but this proves my point either way you're comparison doesn't really work. I think the only way that the next PSVR is going to do much better than this is being at launch and having an optional bundle (or a short-term mandatory one).

There are many reasons why VR hype only flashed for awhile and died off. It's got nothing to do with it being the "first generation" of hardware, which seems like a lazy scapegoat to blame. We saw the hype for VR, and all those job openings for Demos because it was in demand. But that didn't hold for but a short time, and growth has basically stalled overall. VR has more reasons why people aren't getting it.

lmao, ain't gonna happen. Didn't work out too well for Xbox One did it? MS shoving kinect down everyone's throat and overcharging for it. Suckers.
 
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The hype has only died down among people who don't have or want a PSVR. For PSVR users, I don't think I've seen a more positive, excited group in all of gaming. Seriously, go check out /r/psvr. These guys are customers for life. Smaller games have an opportunity to be very successful without AAA competition, so it is drawing smaller developers who are making a name for themselves in this new space. VR (and specifically PSVR) is going to hit in a big way with the PS5 (especially is PSVR games are backwards compatible on the PS5). The groundwork is being laid now.
 

mckmas8808

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Im still waiting for VR to catch my attention. Its just too dumbed down right now. Everything feels like an experience.

This is the exact opposite of what VR is at the moment lol. Have you not seen any games that you can play in VR or something?
 
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DarthBuzzer

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The Hype for VR died to fast to blame the hardware, especially since most of the sales for VR happened on the mobile VRS which has the worse hardware. That's to easy of a scapegoat.

Also overall market is actually down because some of the VR options that were doing well relatively are now dropping gradually in sales.
Which ones are dropping in sales? I can back up my claims:

https://uploadvr.com/vr-steam-grew-2018/
https://www.vrfocus.com/2018/09/ocu...tions-states-carmack-reveals-future-upgrades/
And PSVR's growth spurt can be shown by comparing it to all other sales milestone announcements. The time between the last announcement and the recent one is the shortest, but also the highest sales period.

If you say mobile headsets, then that was always expected in the first place, as standalone is meant to take the place of mobile and that comes with a transition period.
 
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Monsterkillah

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Gear VR wasn't the first either, but this proves my point either way you're comparison doesn't really work. I think the only way that the next PSVR is going to do much better than this is being at launch and having an optional bundle (or a short-term mandatory one).

There are many reasons why VR hype only flashed for awhile and died off. It's got nothing to do with it being the "first generation" of hardware, which seems like a lazy scapegoat to blame. We saw the hype for VR, and all those job openings for Demos because it was in demand. But that didn't hold for but a short time, and growth has basically stalled overall. VR has more reasons why people aren't getting it.
 

Grinchy

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The first million were sold in $500 bundles. At launch, the $400 option was the headset only. It didn't even come with the camera! This was an extremely expensive peripheral when it launched, and it still sold a million at that insane price. As the price has gone down, it has sold better and better.

Comparing it to the sales of a pack-in Kinect is like showing us the results of your IQ test. (the results aren't good)
 

Afro Republican

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And PSVR's growth spurt can be shown by comparing it to all other sales milestone announcements. The time between the last announcement and the recent one is the shortest, but also the highest sales period.

If you say mobile headsets, then that was always expected in the first place, as standalone is meant to take the place of mobile and that comes with a transition period.

Do you read posts or only look for the text to reply to and respond?

I said overall market. Overall market is down. Also while PSVR had a nice growth, that's only in relativity to the rest of the market, it's still not exactly good, and momentum is cooling, and momentum is needed for PSVR2 to generate good hype and good starting sales, and that doesn't only apply to PSVR, that applies to all of them.
 
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DarthBuzzer

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Do you read posts or only look for the text to reply to and respond?

I said overall market. Overall market is down. Also while PSVR had a nice growth, that's only in relativity to the rest of the market, it's still not exactly good, and momentum is cooling, and momentum is needed for PSVR2 to generate good hype and good starting sales, and that doesn't only apply to PSVR, that applies to all of them.
How is the overall market down when a) the PC market is up, b) the console market is up, and c) the standalone market has only just started and appears to be doing just fine.

You have no basis to be saying this. If you actually have something that backs up your claim, then show it as I have.
PSVR's growth is also relative to itself. It grew faster in the last year than it did at any other point in it's lifetime. It's obvious that console VR (for the time being) is not going to be challenged in sales by PC headsets. It will take standalone headsets to do that, and those have only just begun.
 
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Afro Republican

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How is the overall market down when a) the PC market is up, b) the console market is up, and c) the standalone market has only just started and appears to be doing just fine.

You just contradicted your previous statement that mobile VR was down.
 
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He's is constantly wrong and was called out on it before.

The reason why he's so big at Era was he got some news first from some chinese outlets before the mainstream gaming media got it, but it was public anyone could access, and artificially pumped himself as an insider and tried to attack Neogaf during the "incident" that they were wrong for banning him and a bunch of insults and etc.

Then not two days after the Incident, when the Incident in 2017 HAPPENED, right when IT HAPPENED, he was one of the first few guys that threw @EviLore under the bus immediately, THE SECOND the threads were popping up and being deleted, and claimed that he had proof that Evilore was guilty, and that is what caused all those users to snap into insanity when they didn't hear anything after the first 24hrs, and then he deleted those tweets and kept spewing that shit in the side chat about how Evilore was not responding because he was arrested and tried, but then that chat of course, vanished as well.

It's the reason why Era puts him so high and why he's an Admin on the site since day 1. But he's entirely fake, he never knows what he's talking about, he'll try and pass niche news that no ones heard, but is public, as some proof he's an insider, his predictions are worse than Matt NPD, and to be honest there's something screwy going on there as well. There's a reason why almost all the devs that used to be on Gaf don't come back, some have directly called Zhuge out even recently. The only devs going to Era, which are rare, is either SJW devs, or Devs trying to control PR and spreading of misinformation.

Wow, that motherfucker instigated the whole exodus?
No wonder why they treat him like royalty. The dudes a low-tier market analyst, I can tell. But the fact that he also did some bullshit like that makes him not only unreliable, but a piece of shit too.

I've seen some devs on QqEra and was shocked that Cory Balrog wanted to be in that forum. You're right, either their SJW or PR damage controls.

Whats amazing is that even after the whole exodus, GDC conference quoted a thread from NeoGAF on one of their presentation slides. I found that out yesterday on Twitter and it gave me some hope that devs do still check this forum out.
 

DarthBuzzer

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You just contradicted your previous statement that mobile VR was down.
I listed 3 sections of the market that were up. I did not mention mobile as part of those 3 sections, because I'm aware that mobile is down - which was always going to be the case because it was merely a transition period until standalones were ready.

So basically, you're left with 3 sectors up, and 1 sector down as expected. There is no contradiction here.
 
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Monsterkillah

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Do you read posts or only look for the text to reply to and respond?

I said overall market. Overall market is down. Also while PSVR had a nice growth, that's only in relativity to the rest of the market, it's still not exactly good, and momentum is cooling, and momentum is needed for PSVR2 to generate good hype and good starting sales, and that doesn't only apply to PSVR, that applies to all of them.
 
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Afro Republican

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I listed 3 sections of the market that were up. I did not mention mobile as part of those 3 sections, because I'm aware that mobile is down - which was always going to be the case because it was merely a transition period until standalones were ready.

So basically, you're left with 3 sectors up, and 1 sector down as expected. There is no contradiction here.

Which contradicts your implication that the overall market wasn't down because that's how you responded to me when I said it was down. It's either down or up, and overall its down. Doesn't matter if only one sector is responsible for it, it's the sector that sold the most VR's and arguably made the most money.
 

Afro Republican

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Wow, that motherfucker instigated the whole exodus?
No wonder why they treat him like royalty. The dudes a low-tier market analyst, I can tell. But the fact that he also did some bullshit like that makes him not only unreliable, but a piece of shit too.

I've seen some devs on QqEra and was shocked that Cory Balrog wanted to be in that forum. You're right, either their SJW or PR damage controls.

Whats amazing is that even after the whole exodus, GDC conference quoted a thread from NeoGAF on one of their presentation slides. I found that out yesterday on Twitter and it gave me some hope that devs do still check this forum out.

Of course they do, the sane devs probably think they can get banned on Era without even registering for an account.

Don't forget that they can easily turn on any of their "hero devs" in 5 seconds spread false information and try to crash their careers. They did that with several Youtubers as well.

Heck, not long before Super Best Friends Play broke up they used Pat's girlfirend/wife as a reason to attack him, and trying to damage control his wife, they trapped him in some bait and basically made him out to be anti-LGBT Hitler white supremacist fascist the road to deport everyone. Said that he was "alt-right" and that he should be...well you know what kind of things they say.
 
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DarthBuzzer

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Which contradicts your implication that the overall market wasn't down because that's how you responded to me when I said it was down. It's either down or up, and overall its down. Doesn't matter if only one sector is responsible for it, it's the sector that sold the most VR's and arguably made the most money.
The overall market means the market in general. Since when is one sector versus three the overall market, especially since it was a stop-gap right from the get go?
 

Afro Republican

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The overall market means the market in general. Since when is one sector versus three the overall market, especially since it was a stop-gap right from the get go?

You know very well that overall market is based on share and overall profit/sales, and the Mobile Market has the plurality(maybe even majority) share of the VR market. So if it's down it can drag the rest of the market slaes/profits with it. That's just how many of those sold and were appealing to customers.

it's no different for this generation of gaming consoles being down from last time because the Wii's 101 million customers vanished from the console market.
 

Afro Republican

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Kinect had a lot of games that supported it, but PSVR actually has more diverse games built for the peripheral.

it literally doesn't.

In fact diverse games was exactly what Kinects problem was, as it was later found only certain types of games would end up working on it.
 

demigod

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He's is constantly wrong and was called out on it before.

The reason why he's so big at Era was he got some news first from some chinese outlets before the mainstream gaming media got it, but it was public anyone could access, and artificially pumped himself as an insider and tried to attack Neogaf during the "incident" that they were wrong for banning him and a bunch of insults and etc.

Then not two days after the Incident, when the Incident in 2017 HAPPENED, right when IT HAPPENED, he was one of the first few guys that threw @EviLore under the bus immediately, THE SECOND the threads were popping up and being deleted, and claimed that he had proof that Evilore was guilty, and that is what caused all those users to snap into insanity when they didn't hear anything after the first 24hrs, and then he deleted those tweets and kept spewing that shit in the side chat about how Evilore was not responding because he was arrested and tried, but then that chat of course, vanished as well.

It's the reason why Era puts him so high and why he's an Admin on the site since day 1. But he's entirely fake, he never knows what he's talking about, he'll try and pass niche news that no ones heard, but is public, as some proof he's an insider, his predictions are worse than Matt NPD, and to be honest there's something screwy going on there as well. There's a reason why almost all the devs that used to be on Gaf don't come back, some have directly called Zhuge out even recently. The only devs going to Era, which are rare, is either SJW devs, or Devs trying to control PR and spreading of misinformation.

This is kinda off-topic but holy crap I did not know about this. I thought he requested a ban since he just vanished one day and I never saw him again in the NPD threads. He's a bigger douche then I thought. Why exactly was he banned btw?
 
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Bryank75

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So he actually made up his 'prediction' then? Did he think it was going to sell less or more initially? I'm curious.
Less I assume. But I couldn't see what he said after... I didn't want to either. I was pretty sickened since I had been very supportive to him prior to that.
 

Afro Republican

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This is kinda off-topic but holy crap I did not know about this. I thought he requested a ban since he just vanished one day and I never saw him again in the NPD threads. He's a bigger douche then I thought. Why exactly was he banned btw?
It's not entirely clear since "not a good fit for the community" was all that was put out, but some speculate it was due to him acting like a stuck up better than you ass which pissed off some of the mods, the site advertising he was doing for his site, being wrong after talking about "leaked information" or a combination of all 3.

He also went after Creamsugar once and edited the posts much later so it looked like it never happened before he got banned, but no one noticed that he did that until later. Went after one of his pie charts and his credibility for Two things and both ended up being right making him look like an idiot.
 

DarthBuzzer

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You know very well that overall market is based on share and overall profit/sales, and the Mobile Market has the plurality(maybe even majority) share of the VR market. So if it's down it can drag the rest of the market slaes/profits with it. That's just how many of those sold and were appealing to customers.

it's no different for this generation of gaming consoles being down from last time because the Wii's 101 million customers vanished from the console market.
How is it supposed to drag the market down when all the manufacturers were aware of how things were going to play out before they even released their headsets? Standalones were always the end goal.
 

Afro Republican

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How is it supposed to drag the market down when all the manufacturers were aware of how things were going to play out before they even released their headsets? Standalones were always the end goal.

You don't seem to get how business works,

If I have 3 bowls of rice, on the table, and one of the plates tilts the table, then the rest of the bowls will fall with it. People look at overall market, if the overall market of X sector was 500%, and 3 of the revenue types grew 100% but the 4th one lost 300%, that means there's a overall loss of 200%.

This isn't really that hard.
 

Mozza

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Niche sales for a niche product,hardly surprising as outside of core gamers VR is pretty much dead.
 
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ElleryJamesRoberts

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I know it is popular to hate on VR, but I genuinely hope they are not wasting actually talented people from good proven AAA games on future VR Only games. It would seem like a no brainer to me with a lower than 5% attachment rate and even best case scenario if a game sells as many copies as actual people own VR (which we know never ever happens) it would still be a waste.

I just love traditional gaming. I don't want a clunky headset on my head playing a game that introduces another layer of development difficulties which very likely results in an overall weaker game
 

DarthBuzzer

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You don't seem to get how business works,

If I have 3 bowls of rice, on the table, and one of the plates tilts the table, then the rest of the bowls will fall with it. People look at overall market, if the overall market of X sector was 500%, and 3 of the revenue types grew 100% but the 4th one lost 300%, that means there's a overall loss of 200%.

This isn't really that hard.
If you total Google Cardboard / Gear VR and other mobile headsets, they of course outnumber the other types, and that sector is certainly down in sales.

At the end of the day, does it matter? Manufacturers will still continue because they understood it was going down before releasing these headsets. The market moves on. It tossed some cargo off the plane so it can steadily increase to much higher sales potentials.
 

DarthBuzzer

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Niche sales for a niche product,hardly surprising as outside of core gamers VR is pretty much dead.
There is no proof you can provide that says VR is dead outside of core gamers. Oculus Go isn't even for gamers, and that sold relatively well.
 
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DarthBuzzer

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I know it is popular to hate on VR, but I genuinely hope they are not wasting actually talented people from good proven AAA games on future VR Only games. It would seem like a no brainer to me with a lower than 5% attachment rate and even best case scenario if a game sells as many copies as actual people own VR (which we know never ever happens) it would still be a waste.

I just love traditional gaming. I don't want a clunky headset on my head playing a game that introduces another layer of development difficulties which very likely results in an overall weaker game
People who say this would severely regret it if they actually knew what it entailed. Doesn't matter if you don't like VR. A rising tide lifts all boats. Various aspects of gaming will improve (and become apparent even without using VR) because of the technology.
 

bitbydeath

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One thing holding this back is that they aren’t child friendly due to the calibration that needs to be manually performed.

If they can fix that this thing could really start flying off the shelves.
 
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Mozza

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There is no proof you can provide that says VR is dead outside of core gamers. Oculus Go isn't even for gamers, and that sold relatively well.

True,but I still feel we have a long way before VR really engages the mass audience.
 

demigod

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One thing holding this back is that they aren’t child friendly due to the calibration that needs to be manually performed.

If they can fix that this thing could really start flying off the shelves.

VR is not good for kids. I'll let my son play Beat Saber every now and then, but not commonly.
 

Afro Republican

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If you total Google Cardboard / Gear VR and other mobile headsets, they of course outnumber the other types, and that sector is certainly down in sales.

At the end of the day, does it matter?.

Yes investors, companies, Market research, and contractors do actually care about this and yes it does change internal company strategy. These aren't forum posters on Neogaf we are talking about. This isn't something you dismiss.
 

DarthBuzzer

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Yes investors, companies, Market research, and contractors do actually care about this and yes it does change internal company strategy. These aren't forum posters on Neogaf we are talking about. This isn't something you dismiss.
It can affect investors, but the fact that the market is growing in those 3 sectors I mentioned should tell you that it doesn't really matter - so long as the growth keeps up.
 

Afro Republican

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It can affect investors, but the fact that the market is growing in those 3 sectors I mentioned should tell you that it doesn't really matter .

Except it does. YOU not wanting it to matter is different from it actually mattering.
 

bitbydeath

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VR is not good for kids. I'll let my son play Beat Saber every now and then, but not commonly.

Yep, this is preventing me from buying one as no doubt they’d want to have a go too.

If they could be made safer for kids then it’d help move units for sure.
 

Romulus

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So if VR is died/dying, why are all these new headsets coming out and in development? Why do they continually invest in a dead tech? Its across the board too, it's not like oculus is some lone ranger with a new headset coming. So, they're all wrong about the same thing at the same time? They really need to get on neogaf so they can truly understand the nature of the market, it's time to shut this down.
Gaf could save them billions if they just read these posts. VR is dead.
 
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ruvikx

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Niche sales for a niche product,hardly surprising as outside of core gamers VR is pretty much dead.

Kinect sold 20+ million once-upon-a-time. It's a dead product. 4.2 million for PS VR (the most mainstream affordable product in the VR category) is extremely meagre in this context.
 
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