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[FireFistAce]

Seth Rogen is playing bebop, who is black, in this movie. So either hes black and Seth Rogen voices him, or he's not black in this movie when he was originally.

Naturally no ones making an uproar about that.

He’s doing the voice. He’s not actually playing the role on screen.

 

[FireFistAce]

Wanted - Angelina Jolie
Batman Begins - Liam Neeson
The Dark Knight Rises - Tom Hardy

I look forward to the “goalpost moving” that will inevitably happen soon.

You really have to go back more than 10 years ago for examples? Because that’ll be hard to prove that people weren’t complaining.

How about this? Pick a dozen movie which whitewashed its characters and for which we have a topic on this forum and we can see whether people were complaining about it or not.

Btw, Liam Neeson was not playing the Ra’s Al Ghul from the comics. He explained that in the movie.

 

[BadBurger]

There wld be meltdowns and protests if these race swapped characters were reversed. We never see it changed the other way.

When the movie adaptation of the comic Wanted came out with Angelina Jolie playing the co-star, when in the comic the character was black and clearly modeled on Halle Berry, I don't recall anyone caring. But then, probably less than 200k people ever read those comics (I can't be bothered to try and track down old comic unit sales, but for a small publisher comic 200k would have been a lot). It was also 2008, long before people started obsessing over diversity in media.

Oh shit, this one got me. RIP Patrice.

 

[Doom85]

You really have to go back more than 10 years ago for examples? Because that’ll be hard to prove that people weren’t complaining.

How about this? Pick a dozen movie which whitewashed its characters and for which we have a topic on this forum and we can see whether people were complaining about it or not.

Btw, Liam Neeson was not playing the Ra’s Al Ghul from the comics. He explained that in the movie.

WTF, so it only matters if people on THIS forum complain? I didn’t realize every single person in existence who use forums have a Gaf account.

Also, just because people complained (which some did, Ra’s mostly, but a few did regarding Bane as well), what does that prove? Congratulations, you’re ALL obnoxious! With Ra’s (who does count, Bruce flat out calls him that upon seeing him in the mansion and he confirms it), that name is not his birth name in the comics so a white man having the name isn’t necessarily jarring if it’s an alias. With Bane, they went with a completely different design so it’s not like we were seeing a white man wearing a luchador mask.

Also, as someone who used IMDb forums when they existed, people did gripe about Ra’s. Bane to a lesser extent. But you know what happened? THEY MOVED ON. And inevitably that’s what happens to white characters being race changed as well. Does anybody still bitch about Domino being black in Deadpool 2? No, because she was fun, well acted, and kicked ass in a really fun movie. Does anyone single out Michael B. Jordan in 2015 Fantastic Four? No, because pretty much the entire movie sucked so there‘s no reason to focus on him. For all the “outrage”, it’s clear once the movie is out all the people who don’t have sticks up their asses just move on.

As for additional examples:

The Ancient One (Dr. Strange, Avengers Endgame)
The Mandarin (Iron Man 3) - yes, this counts for its theatrical release so no bringing up the side story or the far later Shang Chi film. Trevor pretends to be The Mandarin but then at the climax Killian declares himself The Mandarin so for the movie itself on release he was The Mandarin until it was later retconned
Ben Affleck playing the real life Tony Mendez in Argo
Dr. Doom - Romani in the comics, to the point when he was in the college in the US people commented on his accent. Neither film version keeps this (though they change so much about him in both beyond just his ethnicity)
Silver Fox (X-men Origins: Wolverine) - Native American in the comics, supposedly also in the movie but played by a white actress
Tiger Lily (Pan)
Pietro Maximoff (Fox X-men) - Romani in the comics, and the MCU versions of him and Wanda at least attempted accents (though Wanda’s eventually vanishes with no explanation), but the Fox version of Pietro was just a white guy with no indication of his upbringing (to be clear, at the time in the comics they were Mangeto’s kids, but were raised by Romani parents)
Thunderbird (The Gifted) - fully Native American in the comics, the actor apparently has a bit of Native American descent but it’s not full by any means (yes, I’m including this since some of you apparently are still butthurt about Zendaya who is half black and half white……never mind she’s way hotter than Kirsten Dunst anyway, yeah I said it!)
Speaking of Kirsten Dunst, she played Edwina in The Beguiled, who is biracial in the book
The Prince of Persia himself
Motoko Kusanagi (Ghost in the Shell)
The lead guy in 30 Days of Night (Inuit in the comic, which Josh Hartnett is not AFAIK)
Emma Stone in Aloha - look, I’ve looked at Emma Stone pics a lot (…….err, *cough*), and she definitely isn’t a quarter Hawaiian and a quarter Chinese. Hilariously, this is an original film and they could have easily removed the line mentioning the ethnicity after they cast her, but they kept it in!
Lena and Dr. Ventress in Annihilation, who are half Native American and Asian respectively in the books, whereas Natalie Portman is not remotely Native American and Jennifer Leigh is Russian/Austrian (actually, reverse the two, I’m too lazy to fix this part after writing this much)

There. Enjoy. I look forward to all the responses amounting to:

 

[DeepEnigma]

WTF, so it only matters if people on THIS forum complain? I didn’t realize every single person in existence who use forums have a Gaf account.

Also, just because people complained (which some did, Ra’s mostly, but a few did regarding Bane as well), what does that prove? Congratulations, you’re ALL obnoxious! With Ra’s (who does count, Bruce flat out calls him that upon seeing him in the mansion and he confirms it), that name is not his birth name in the comics so a white man having the name isn’t necessarily jarring if it’s an alias. With Bane, they went with a completely different design so it’s not like we were seeing a white man wearing a luchador mask.

Also, as someone who used IMDb forums when they existed, people did gripe about Ra’s. Bane to a lesser extent. But you know what happened? THEY MOVED ON. And inevitably that’s what happens to white characters being race changed as well. Does anybody still bitch about Domino being black in Deadpool 2? No, because she was fun, well acted, and kicked ass in a really fun movie. Does anyone single out Michael B. Jordan in 2015 Fantastic Four? No, because pretty much the entire movie sucked so there‘s no reason to focus on him. For all the “outrage”, it’s clear once the movie is out all the people who don’t have sticks up their asses just move on.

As for additional examples:

The Ancient One (Dr. Strange, Avengers Endgame)
The Mandarin (Iron Man 3) - yes, this counts for its theatrical release so no bringing up the side story or the far later Shang Chi film. Trevor pretends to be The Mandarin but then at the climax Killian declares himself The Mandarin so for the movie itself on release he was The Mandarin until it was later retconned
Ben Affleck playing the real life Tony Mendez in Argo
Dr. Doom - Romani in the comics, to the point when he was in the college in the US people commented on his accent. Neither film version keeps this (though they change so much about him in both beyond just his ethnicity)
Silver Fox (X-men Origins: Wolverine) - Native American in the comics, supposedly also in the movie but played by a white actress
Tiger Lily (Pan)
Pietro Maximoff (Fox X-men) - Romani in the comics, and the MCU versions of him and Wanda at least attempted accents (though Wanda’s eventually vanishes with no explanation), but the Fox version of Pietro was just a white guy with no indication of his upbringing (to be clear, at the time in the comics they were Mangeto’s kids, but were raised by Romani parents)
Thunderbird (The Gifted) - fully Native American in the comics, the actor apparently has a bit of Native American descent but it’s not full by any means (yes, I’m including this since some of you apparently are still butthurt about Zendaya who is half black and half white……never mind she’s way hotter than Kirsten Dunst anyway, yeah I said it!)
Speaking of Kirsten Dunst, she played Edwina in The Beguiled, who is biracial in the book
The Prince of Persia himself
Motoko Kusanagi (Ghost in the Shell)
The lead guy in 30 Days of Night (Inuit in the comic, which Josh Hartnett is not AFAIK)
Emma Stone in Aloha - look, I’ve looked at Emma Stone pics a lot (…….err, *cough*), and she definitely isn’t a quarter Hawaiian and a quarter Chinese. Hilariously, this is an original film and they could have easily removed the line mentioning the ethnicity after they cast her, but they kept it in!
Lena and Dr. Ventress in Annihilation, who are half Native American and Asian respectively in the books, whereas Natalie Portman is not remotely Native American and Jennifer Leigh is Russian/Austrian (actually, reverse the two, I’m too lazy to fix this part after writing this much)

There. Enjoy. I look forward to all the responses amounting to:

People have always complained about "whitewashing" hence the term that has been used for decades.

Just because it happens in one direction, doesn't mean it should in the other either. Overcompensating and all that malarkey.

 

[VulcanRaven]

I like the artstyle. I wish they would make a new live action movie with the classic designs. I was excited about the 2014 movie at first but then they revealed the turtles. I never watched it or the sequel.

 

[Fuz]

Seth Rogen being in anything is awful but whitewashing Bebop to accommodate him would be extra terrible if it's what they're doing. I mean they could be keeping him black since it shouldn't matter with voice actors but in 2023 that's unlikely so who knows.

There's quite a number of white characters dubbeb by black people. Where's the uproar?

They're ACTORS, they're supposed to be someone else. Who gives a shit who voices who.

 

[Moneal]

There's quite a number of white characters dubbeb by black people. Where's the uproar?

They're ACTORS, they're supposed to be someone else. Who gives a shit who voices who.

Ask this guy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hari_Kondabolu

 

[FireFistAce]

WTF, so it only matters if people on THIS forum complain? I didn’t realize every single person in existence who use forums have a Gaf account.

Also, just because people complained (which some did, Ra’s mostly, but a few did regarding Bane as well), what does that prove? Congratulations, you’re ALL obnoxious! With Ra’s (who does count, Bruce flat out calls him that upon seeing him in the mansion and he confirms it), that name is not his birth name in the comics so a white man having the name isn’t necessarily jarring if it’s an alias. With Bane, they went with a completely different design so it’s not like we were seeing a white man wearing a luchador mask.

Also, as someone who used IMDb forums when they existed, people did gripe about Ra’s. Bane to a lesser extent. But you know what happened? THEY MOVED ON. And inevitably that’s what happens to white characters being race changed as well. Does anybody still bitch about Domino being black in Deadpool 2? No, because she was fun, well acted, and kicked ass in a really fun movie. Does anyone single out Michael B. Jordan in 2015 Fantastic Four? No, because pretty much the entire movie sucked so there‘s no reason to focus on him. For all the “outrage”, it’s clear once the movie is out all the people who don’t have sticks up their asses just move on.

As for additional examples:

The Ancient One (Dr. Strange, Avengers Endgame)
The Mandarin (Iron Man 3) - yes, this counts for its theatrical release so no bringing up the side story or the far later Shang Chi film. Trevor pretends to be The Mandarin but then at the climax Killian declares himself The Mandarin so for the movie itself on release he was The Mandarin until it was later retconned
Ben Affleck playing the real life Tony Mendez in Argo
Dr. Doom - Romani in the comics, to the point when he was in the college in the US people commented on his accent. Neither film version keeps this (though they change so much about him in both beyond just his ethnicity)
Silver Fox (X-men Origins: Wolverine) - Native American in the comics, supposedly also in the movie but played by a white actress
Tiger Lily (Pan)
Pietro Maximoff (Fox X-men) - Romani in the comics, and the MCU versions of him and Wanda at least attempted accents (though Wanda’s eventually vanishes with no explanation), but the Fox version of Pietro was just a white guy with no indication of his upbringing (to be clear, at the time in the comics they were Mangeto’s kids, but were raised by Romani parents)
Thunderbird (The Gifted) - fully Native American in the comics, the actor apparently has a bit of Native American descent but it’s not full by any means (yes, I’m including this since some of you apparently are still butthurt about Zendaya who is half black and half white……never mind she’s way hotter than Kirsten Dunst anyway, yeah I said it!)
Speaking of Kirsten Dunst, she played Edwina in The Beguiled, who is biracial in the book
The Prince of Persia himself
Motoko Kusanagi (Ghost in the Shell)
The lead guy in 30 Days of Night (Inuit in the comic, which Josh Hartnett is not AFAIK)
Emma Stone in Aloha - look, I’ve looked at Emma Stone pics a lot (…….err, *cough*), and she definitely isn’t a quarter Hawaiian and a quarter Chinese. Hilariously, this is an original film and they could have easily removed the line mentioning the ethnicity after they cast her, but they kept it in!
Lena and Dr. Ventress in Annihilation, who are half Native American and Asian respectively in the books, whereas Natalie Portman is not remotely Native American and Jennifer Leigh is Russian/Austrian (actually, reverse the two, I’m too lazy to fix this part after writing this much)

There. Enjoy. I look forward to all the responses amounting to:

All old examples or examples where people have actually complained. I distinctly remember Aloha, Pan and Dr Strange getting heavily criticised for whitewashing. The only time race casting isn’t criticised by the media is when it’s in one direction.

Let me know when blackwashing is a term.

 

[Doom85]

People have always complained about "whitewashing" hence the term that has been used for decades.

Just because it happens in one direction, doesn't mean it should in the other either. Overcompensating and all that malarkey.

You mean complaining generally shouldn’t happen? That would be nice, but here we are.

All old examples or examples where people have actually complained. I distinctly remember Aloha, Pan and Dr Strange getting heavily criticised for whitewashing. The only time race casting isn’t criticised by the media is when it’s in one direction.

Let me know when blackwashing is a term.

Are we talking about the media, or forums? Again, goalpost moving, stick to what you want, people. I’m asked to make a cake, I make a cake, now you all want cookies. For fucks’ sake.

Also, spare me with this “old” shit. If it’s 10 years or less, that shit isn’t old to anyone unless you have a toddler’s perspective of time passage.

Also, no shit Aloha and Pan were heavily criticized. In the former, they flat out state the character‘s supposed ethnicity (and again, they could have simply removed the line when filming) despite it being blatantly false, and the latter is playing a character who has always identified as Native American.

Now, I’m not familiar with The Ancient One and heavily their ethnicity is relevant in the comics, but it’s funny, they brought her back for Avengers Endgame, in 2019, hmm……

Again, does the character’s race and ethnicity play a significant element in their source material? I’m sorry this triggers people, but the fact is a lot of white characters, particularly American or based off American, don’t have their race and ethnicity play a significant role. One example it did play was Roland in the Dark Tower books due to the 2nd book having Susannah be the only black person in their group playing a significant role in what happens with them. Admittedly, this gets tricky as the movie wasn‘t meant to be an adaptation at all (that might sound confusing, but you have to finish the books to get it, and I don’t want to blatantly spoil it) but if it had been just a flat out adaptation, then yes Roland should have been white.

It’s this blatant misunderstanding that a good deal of people of Gaf fail to understand and become total clowns. A black woman is playing Ariel, a fictional mermaid from a fictional underwater city (and if Atlantis does exist, we don’t know their race for sure, funny how these same whiners probably didn’t complain about Kida and her people in the Atlantis: The Lost Empire animated film), and clowns on here tried to compare the casting to casting a white guy as T‘Challa (the Black Panther comics have dealt with racism topics plenty, and furthermore Stan Lee created the character specifically to appeal to his growing audience of black readers) and even one clown compared it to casting a white guy to play Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. himself! Like, FUCK OFF with this false equivalency.

April O’Neil never had her race or ethnicity be that relevant in the source material‘s stories or themes as far as I know (certainly no one has provided examples so far, a bunch of panels showing she’s probably white, but it’s never discussed in story). Hell, as far as I know Bebop being originally a black person isn’t relevant to the stories and themes so Seth Rogen voicing him is fine.

God, this shit, this shit that is so simple to understand yet so much bitching and whining never ends:

 

[Toons]

Seth Rogen being in anything is awful but whitewashing Bebop to accommodate him would be extra terrible if it's what they're doing. I mean they could be keeping him black since it shouldn't matter with voice actors but in 2023 that's unlikely so who knows.

I would be surprised if they were trying to pass offs Seth's voice as a black guys, so I'm betting they are just going to either have him already mutated or race change him.

And honestly, it doesn't bother me all that much. Bebops race is largely inconsequential to his character and you only see him in human form very briefly.

 

[Toons]

WTF, so it only matters if people on THIS forum complain? I didn’t realize every single person in existence who use forums have a Gaf account.

Also, just because people complained (which some did, Ra’s mostly, but a few did regarding Bane as well), what does that prove? Congratulations, you’re ALL obnoxious! With Ra’s (who does count, Bruce flat out calls him that upon seeing him in the mansion and he confirms it), that name is not his birth name in the comics so a white man having the name isn’t necessarily jarring if it’s an alias. With Bane, they went with a completely different design so it’s not like we were seeing a white man wearing a luchador mask.

Also, as someone who used IMDb forums when they existed, people did gripe about Ra’s. Bane to a lesser extent. But you know what happened? THEY MOVED ON. And inevitably that’s what happens to white characters being race changed as well. Does anybody still bitch about Domino being black in Deadpool 2? No, because she was fun, well acted, and kicked ass in a really fun movie. Does anyone single out Michael B. Jordan in 2015 Fantastic Four? No, because pretty much the entire movie sucked so there‘s no reason to focus on him. For all the “outrage”, it’s clear once the movie is out all the people who don’t have sticks up their asses just move on.

As for additional examples:

The Ancient One (Dr. Strange, Avengers Endgame)
The Mandarin (Iron Man 3) - yes, this counts for its theatrical release so no bringing up the side story or the far later Shang Chi film. Trevor pretends to be The Mandarin but then at the climax Killian declares himself The Mandarin so for the movie itself on release he was The Mandarin until it was later retconned
Ben Affleck playing the real life Tony Mendez in Argo
Dr. Doom - Romani in the comics, to the point when he was in the college in the US people commented on his accent. Neither film version keeps this (though they change so much about him in both beyond just his ethnicity)
Silver Fox (X-men Origins: Wolverine) - Native American in the comics, supposedly also in the movie but played by a white actress
Tiger Lily (Pan)
Pietro Maximoff (Fox X-men) - Romani in the comics, and the MCU versions of him and Wanda at least attempted accents (though Wanda’s eventually vanishes with no explanation), but the Fox version of Pietro was just a white guy with no indication of his upbringing (to be clear, at the time in the comics they were Mangeto’s kids, but were raised by Romani parents)
Thunderbird (The Gifted) - fully Native American in the comics, the actor apparently has a bit of Native American descent but it’s not full by any means (yes, I’m including this since some of you apparently are still butthurt about Zendaya who is half black and half white……never mind she’s way hotter than Kirsten Dunst anyway, yeah I said it!)
Speaking of Kirsten Dunst, she played Edwina in The Beguiled, who is biracial in the book
The Prince of Persia himself
Motoko Kusanagi (Ghost in the Shell)
The lead guy in 30 Days of Night (Inuit in the comic, which Josh Hartnett is not AFAIK)
Emma Stone in Aloha - look, I’ve looked at Emma Stone pics a lot (…….err, *cough*), and she definitely isn’t a quarter Hawaiian and a quarter Chinese. Hilariously, this is an original film and they could have easily removed the line mentioning the ethnicity after they cast her, but they kept it in!
Lena and Dr. Ventress in Annihilation, who are half Native American and Asian respectively in the books, whereas Natalie Portman is not remotely Native American and Jennifer Leigh is Russian/Austrian (actually, reverse the two, I’m too lazy to fix this part after writing this much)

There. Enjoy. I look forward to all the responses amounting to:

Yeah, I only really care if you have an example of Hollywood taking an actual opportunity to cast a minority who has been generally historically shut out from Hollywood(i.e. most people not white) and then give that role to a white character for the purposes of "[minority] doesn't sell tickets".

With stuff like Bane, who is mixed in the comics, this version of the character is so radically different in origin that it really doesn't bother me much that an Englishman plays him and it helps that he did a good job.

Stuff like silver fox being played by a white lady though is something that shouldn't still be happening.

Likewise, Bebop being Seth rogan doesn't really irk me much, and April being black certainly doesn't.

Ras al Ghul, was maybe an unnecessary one but its supposed to be a bit of a plot twist so again ill allow it. I'd still like to see a more accurate Ras at some point.

Egyptians being British white people continues to be dumb to me in general.

Ancient one was an attempt to curb the stereotypical depiction of rhe dated original comics; but it handled that issue in probably the worst way by just making the character a white British lady, when you could've done literally anything else and played it off better. I dont hate Tilda Swinton and she does fine but just... we'll call that a learning moment.

 

[RoboFu]

Some of are reading this thread wrong.. no one cares that April is black. It’s what she looks like. It’s clearly a obvious statement they are trying to make.
April could look like below and no one would care.

 

[Moneal]

Ancient one was an attempt to curb the stereotypical depiction of rhe dated original comics; but it handled that issue in probably the worst way by just making the character a white British lady, when you could've done literally anything else and played it off better. I dont hate Tilda Swinton and she does fine but just... we'll call that a learning momoment.

Pretty sure she was used more to placate the Chinese audience, due to the ancient one originally being Tibetan.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You mean complaining generally shouldn’t happen? That would be nice, but here we are.

Humans complain, that is not a revelation.

 

[Toons]

Pretty sure she was used more to placate the Chinese audience, due to the ancient one originally being Tibetan.

I mean, not making her Tibetan, still didn't require literally replacing an asiaj character with a white one, they could've gone any direction other than that, its not a big deal but definitely not the best decision in that context

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I think they do these shitty designs (coupled with race swaps) on purpose to generate controversy, its free marketing. Had April be a beautiful woman no one (regardless on race) would care that much.

It works I guess, Im commenting in a thread about it.

 

[Nvzman]

Didn't see anyone crying about April not being a ginger back in 2024:

Dude I dont even give a shit about the TMNT franchise and everyone said Megan Fox as april was fucking terrible. Don't even try the revisionist history shit.

 

[LRKD]

Turtles look bad, april looks bad, Seth Rogan... Yeah that's a major pass for me, but at least we just had a good new turtles game, and the collection.

 

[Toons]

All of these discussions about race swaos are going to age poorly. Theres going to be a time when no one will even care. Most people don't now.

The turtles as an IP in which their designs looks and various incarnations differ wildly, and so do their supporting cast. Its really not a big deal. This is a new version, it won't be the last, winter be the last time April gets changed either and it won't be the last time she's white either.

 

[Goalus]

❤