That was 12+ hours of nail biting fast-paced maze traversal action, this is democratic leapfrog.Is it that much slower than the 12+ hours spent on this maze up until now?
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Twitch Plays Pokemon: Dig, Dig for Victory!
- Thread starter Orayn
- Start date
Waluigilicious
Member
We should all go over to Twitch plays Pokemon blue and collectively try to do well. It's the old system except it's worse as there are users telling everyone to go away so one person can take over on the important bits. I say we turn it into neogaf plays
And now we're meeting with Game Freak, to discuss to proper course of action. :U
Watch a speedrun of the game or even a Let's Play if you're looking for rapid progress. Both are entertaining in their own right, but this stream is trying to give a different, more chaotic experience.
astrogamer
Member
Yeah barely. They taught pidgeotto Mud Slap and the final haunter couldn't hit us
Nintendo is in a position where causing 100k+ people to get really pissed off at them would cause an insane amount of bad PR. Plus, this isn't really taking away sales of a current game, and someone made the point before that this particular stream is so unique that it could possibly fall under fair use, anyway.
everyday math
Banned
I want this T-shirt design like you wouldn't believe.
I want this T-shirt design like you wouldn't believe.
Holy, yes please.
bluelightningduo
Member
CrocMother
Banned
When democracy was turned on and we were trying to navigate the maze, it was still really exciting to watch the votes tallying. I'm not holding this stream up to some sort of imaginary ideal, it's entertainment.
If you want chaos, it's definitely still here. We are currently in the Game Freak development building for no reason.
If you want chaos, it's definitely still here. We are currently in the Game Freak development building for no reason.
On what aspect of this, exactly?
I don't think we need a social psychologist to make comments regarding any aspects of the stream... it's all pretty evident.
I think Blue stream and Red stream serve different purposes for different people. If you want to play through the game with others like me then play through the blue stream, but if you want to watch randomness and hillarity play through the red stream.We should all go over to Twitch plays Pokemon blue and collectively try to do well. It's the only system except it's worse as there are users telling everyone to go away so one person can take over on the important bits. I say we turn it into neogaf plays
That's why the blue stream is considered as boring, because people are actually trying to play through it. By all means both streams are great but i'm not going to place my thoughts on red stream anymore, let people do what they want. You can't/shouldn't take the red stream seriously theres too many trolls.
How low do they need to be to manage the obstacle? We're dealing with a situation where:
* First, metastrategies aren't really viable. It works for situations where you just have to spam one direction - the ledge, the door leading to Erika's tree. That's not really the case in this environment.
* The ledge had twelve failure paths. The maze actually only has six, by my count, but - significantly - they're all *different*.
* AFTER FAILURE in the maze, merely resetting requires markedly more precision than the ledge did; spamming left, versus hitting the correct tile based on movement. In other words: simply getting *out* is a problem.
* AFTER GETTING OUT, it's very easy to fall into the *other* maze, which requires precision just to escape
That's the thing: It takes significantly longer to recover from a fail than it does to actually proceed through the challenge.
I should add: I would agree with you more if it wasn't for the lag. Not being able to consistently determine when (or if, given start) your input becomes relevant is highly dangerous. Even competent players can be counter-productive.
And finally: What if the wrong players give up and leave? We've already seen huge piles of bots irritating things up, and they don't get bored, and they don't lose interest. It'd become a bot wasteland before success, I suspect.
With a bit more thought, I wonder if I can calculate how many times more complicated the maze is in comparison with the ledge. Ledge took eight hours or so, right?
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
I think some people are conflating the intent of the players with the intent of the stream.
- some players want to progress through the game.
- some players want to hinder progress through the game.
- some players just want to get lost in the heat of the moment and don't care if progress is made as long as great stories can be told.
The purpose of the stream is to see how these players reconcile with each other given the obstacles in place. No method of stream/viewer interaction will serve every demographic of player.
- some players want to progress through the game.
- some players want to hinder progress through the game.
- some players just want to get lost in the heat of the moment and don't care if progress is made as long as great stories can be told.
The purpose of the stream is to see how these players reconcile with each other given the obstacles in place. No method of stream/viewer interaction will serve every demographic of player.
The streamer already said that he'd turn off the step counter for Safari Zone so that we don't try over and over again and run out of money.
No, its different.
The current Chaos is because of the voting system and people discussing/voting on the system instead of playing it.
redmetal86
Member
I believe that's up to the creator, and it looks like he's made his decision.
Oh god, how deep does this go? What is the meaning of life? Is it to beat the game or is there something more?
Being stuck in the same place for a whole day isn't boring? oh look red is spinning in the wrong direction AGAIN.
it's not entertaining
Corronchilejano
Member
What's the current plan?
Chezzymann
Member
But, when you use the democracy system, it loses all gratification when you finally overcome an obstacle. Stuff like the ledge, the PC, all become meaningless.
What he means by boring isn't losing progress, its losing excitement.
On the contrary, "oh look, Red moved 5 steps in the last 5 minutes".
I think Anarchy brings more entertainment (albeit with extreme frustration in some parts) but the fact that the game actually takes each individual input in consideration is entertaining in itself.
highoffcoffee496
Member
Waluigilicious
Member
Then you exit and come back tomorrow. That was the WHOLE POINT of the stream!
It's more entertaining then moving one step every 30-40 seconds and achieving unsatisfactory success.
I've switched off, I'll tune back in if it picks up again.
Neither is the slowest Let's Play of all time, yet for some reason that's what Democracy wants.
In all honesty, I couldn't watch either for a long period of time, but I'd rather watch 12 hours of Red spinning in a circle than one single minute of Red following the correct path all the damn time.
The thought experiment on calculating the difficulty is interesting (12 hours), but most people were aware in the beginning that its a fight against the odds. Most people didnt think this was possible, so it was a fight to show what actually is possible and how they can go.
I mean just look at the ledge thing, it was extremely difficult and spawned voting behaviour systems that even tried accounting for the lag and eventually they overcame it, multiple times within a few minutes. Sure, most of these puzzles are going to be way tougher, but that was sort of the point for many. It seems impossible, yet they still did it and came up with crazy meta strategies? So awesome.
Okay, so, thoughts on the Anarchy/Democracy thing:
-Anarchy would be the best and the most fun to watch, but progress would be a lot slower. As someone who doesn't actually really watch much of the stream and just tunes in at certain intervals throughout the day and then reads various summaries and recaps of what's happened it's more interesting but also slower in the long run, it would take weeks-months and there would be days where nothing happens that I care about.
-I also think the anarchists have the better argument for the most part, a lot of the fun, stories, randomness, and memes never would have happened if we didn't have an anarchy system in the first place.
-On the other hand this system doesn't completely ruin the Stream. I think it's a fair compromise for people who want to see shit get done. Someone said that the option of anarchy makes no sense because Democracy is always going to be more efficient, and regardless of whether or not that's true I think that line of thinking is missing the point of the system. Not all of the chat cares about what's the more efficient option. The point of the voting is to see what the people in the chat would prefer at any given time after we had five days of anarchy and people formed their opinions on whether or not they liked watching it. It's meant to be a compromise. If anarchy is winning that means that the people in the chat at this given moment would rather watch a stream in the style of the first four badges, not that they necessarily think it'll make things more efficient. If we didn't have five days of anarchy then that would be a valid point, but we did and the people voting anarchy want chaos to ensue like it did for the first five days.
-The biggest issue I have with the system is that it does ruin the integrity of this as a legitimate social experiment. But like someone else said this was ruined the moment he tried Democracy so he might as well make the best of it now that it's ruined. And there's still tons of potential hear for psychological/sociological/political analysis so it's not like the stream isn't still a meta as hell statement about the way people cooperate.
-Anarchy would be the best and the most fun to watch, but progress would be a lot slower. As someone who doesn't actually really watch much of the stream and just tunes in at certain intervals throughout the day and then reads various summaries and recaps of what's happened it's more interesting but also slower in the long run, it would take weeks-months and there would be days where nothing happens that I care about.
-I also think the anarchists have the better argument for the most part, a lot of the fun, stories, randomness, and memes never would have happened if we didn't have an anarchy system in the first place.
-On the other hand this system doesn't completely ruin the Stream. I think it's a fair compromise for people who want to see shit get done. Someone said that the option of anarchy makes no sense because Democracy is always going to be more efficient, and regardless of whether or not that's true I think that line of thinking is missing the point of the system. Not all of the chat cares about what's the more efficient option. The point of the voting is to see what the people in the chat would prefer at any given time after we had five days of anarchy and people formed their opinions on whether or not they liked watching it. It's meant to be a compromise. If anarchy is winning that means that the people in the chat at this given moment would rather watch a stream in the style of the first four badges, not that they necessarily think it'll make things more efficient. If we didn't have five days of anarchy then that would be a valid point, but we did and the people voting anarchy want chaos to ensue like it did for the first five days.
-The biggest issue I have with the system is that it does ruin the integrity of this as a legitimate social experiment. But like someone else said this was ruined the moment he tried Democracy so he might as well make the best of it now that it's ruined. And there's still tons of potential hear for psychological/sociological/political analysis so it's not like the stream isn't still a meta as hell statement about the way people cooperate.
Then there's no need for democracy at all.
But completing it would have been the greatest triumph in the history of mankind. And walking right back in would have been wonderfully soulcrushing. Instead we got nothing. We were robbed.
Voting for anarchy or democracy.
Andrefpvs
Member
Can't we just go back to the way it was before? That "victory" felt so tasteless.
Edit: actually, this post reflects my feelings very well: http://www.reddit.com/r/twitchplays...f_anarchy_fails_the_experiment_fails_with_it/
Edit: actually, this post reflects my feelings very well: http://www.reddit.com/r/twitchplays...f_anarchy_fails_the_experiment_fails_with_it/
Which is good, because the ones that are left will probably be able to get pass that difficult part. Then interest would be rekindled.
Yeah, it was really fascinating how quickly everyone came together and compensated for lag during the democratic maze run.
There is now this four way struggle between anarchy, democracy, progress, and hindrance which continues to be entertaining to me.
Shadow Ranger
Member
Sure is, but you don't need to see the whole thing. Just come back and if there are stories you missed, that's a shame but it happens. Plenty of us zone out and return (sleep, work etc) for the stories. If it's boring when we watch, that's just too bad.
This is good.I want this T-shirt design like you wouldn't believe.
the point is to only address part of my quote as a strawman, yes :U
There already was a democratic stream, why not use that one? This was something unique, creating unique stories and while frustrating at point,t hat only makes real progress all the more satisfying.
There's plenty recorded games of Pokemon Red to enjoy the efficient progress.
the very fact that people were proposing the idea that they should have just waited until 70 thousand people got bored and left so that something could get done shows how busted anarchy-only is for the game
the very idea that it is LESS boring to let 70k people get bored than to have the voting system is overtly ridiculous
the very idea that it is LESS boring to let 70k people get bored than to have the voting system is overtly ridiculous
This. Like I said, it's people who want to have their cake and eat it too: They want to be a part of the biggest Pokemon playthrough of all time, but they also don't want to spend every waking minute at a computer so they won't miss something good. To that I say "tough luck".
The ledge wasn't just lag; when it worked, it did so in part *because* the movers overwhelmed the trolls. We need to keep the interested players playing because, as I said upthread, bots won't get bored.
CrocMother
Banned
Almost made it back into Rocket HQ!
fredrancour
Member
Given how he turned start-throttling on and off, and now this change, I'd say the dude hasn't really made up his mind about what he wants out of the stream. I wouldn't really be surprised to wake up tomorrow and find the voting system gone.