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Xbox v.Next and Only Online by Paul Thurrott: Deal With It :)

D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Voice of Reason said:
I like the 4G chip rumor someone mentioned, this way you're always online even when your modem/router is out.
Click to expand...

Unlikely. Microsoft would require to have arrangements with nearly every cell provider on the planet.

That and reliability of wireless has a lot to be desired. Considering broadband buildout is at 95% for the video game industry 3 major markets... Connectivity isn't truly an issue that some make it out to be
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
Folks, the next Xbox is going to require an always-on Internet connection. I don’t know the specifics of what that means
Click to expand...

Yes, they do work offline, of course.
Click to expand...

What a tool. If he's putting shit like that in there, he shouldn't have even written the article.

And nobody was cyberbullied in this matter. He was called out.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
A preview of Microsoft's E3 presentation.

PX3B
 
S

Sorian

Banned
DopeyFish said:
Unlikely. Microsoft would require to have arrangements with nearly every cell provider on the planet.

That and reliability of wireless has a lot to be desired. Considering broadband buildout is at 95% for the video game industry 3 major markets... Connectivity isn't truly an issue that some make it out to be
Click to expand...

Plus does everyone remember how much the AT&T network was trembling under the weight of the iPhone? Imagine how strained things would be with a gaming console eating up bandwidth as well.
 
T

Triple U

Banned
SlickShoesRUCrazy said:
I will go with neither since this is my interpretation of his statements.

Always on connectivity != always online drm.

^ two very different things.

Always on connectivity is the console always receiving updates, being a part of an ecosystem with your smart phone, tablet and pc, etc., versus always online drm like the sim city fiasco

To me, it sounds like he was talking about the former.
Click to expand...

I think "next Xbox is going to require a always on connection" is pretty cut and dry. Combined with the edge/kotaku/VGleaks rumors, "gaf insiders", and the Microsoft guy I don't think it's that hard to figure out.
 
M

mavs

Member
ultim8p00 said:
HE did not say THAT. That's what I'm saying. Other rumors may have said it, and I've certainly seen some that have. But he did not say that at all in his comment. Pretty much what he said was "it will work offline" but we don't actually know what that means exactly. He didn't say that if there is no connection you can't play games.

Jesus. This isn't difficult.



But on here he says "it will work offline"

From both of those, the only thing we can logically conclude is that there is some offline functionality, but there is some functionality that requires online functionality. We don't know anything else.
Click to expand...

Xbox:
Folks, the next Xbox is going to require an always-on Internet connection.
Click to expand...

Windows/phone:
More to the point, I think that an always-on Xbox is directly in keeping with Microsoft’s strategy for all next-generation platforms, including Windows Phone (all versions) and Windows 8/RT, which are designed to work as if you are simply connected all the time. Yes, they do work offline, of course.
Click to expand...

When has anyone said that Windows requires an always-on Internet connection? Clearly there is a difference between the next Xbox and Windows.
 
B

Barkley's Justice

Member
Sorian said:
Because we bought consoles to play video games? If I have a single player video game, I should not have to be online to play it and with the way things are today, I don't want to be online to play it. I don't need ads when my dashboard boots up and I don't need BS to appear in my game while I play (Far Cry 3 for example where the challenge rocks around the island had a friends gamertag on them because he played the game before me). Let me play my damn game without bugging me. I already payed you once.
Click to expand...

I can understand you being upset with ads and the like. And although I'm skeptical you're so profoundly affected by this that you only turn your XBL connection on to download things (surely, if this were the case, you have many other options available for gaming. The PC for example...), the fact is whether you recognize it or not, PS3 and Xbox 360 are already always online. Every device ever in the future will always be online.

I'm all for speaking your mind with your wallet, but a lot of you are sounding like you're applying the tinfoil hats to your dome, if you catch my meaning. Surely you have expounded more energy at this point bitching about it (still a rumor, mind you) when all you really need to do is not purchase it. Less effort, the latter, you see.
 
F

FordGTGuy

Banned
DopeyFish said:
Unlikely. Microsoft would require to have arrangements with nearly every cell provider on the planet.

That and reliability of wireless has a lot to be desired. Considering broadband buildout is at 95% for the video game industry 3 major markets... Connectivity isn't truly an issue that some make it out to be
Click to expand...

Not to mention the cell phone network is hurting as it is, I'm really thinking this is just going to turn out to be always-on connection to Xbox and not a requirement to be always-online.

mavs said:
Xbox:


Windows/phone:


When has anyone said that Windows requires an always-on Internet connection? Clearly there is a difference between the next Xbox and Windows.
Click to expand...

He is referring to how Windows 8 will go into sleep mode but maintain it's connection for updates and so on. The idea is that the new Xbox will go into a sleep mode when turned off and continue to update and stay connected.
 
S

SlickShoesRUCrazy

Member
Glorified G said:
No one is going to flame you for not knowing how to read.
Click to expand...

I read just fine...seems like neogaf likes to read what they want to read so they can continue with their mob mentality.

More to the point, I think that an always-on Xbox is directly in keeping with Microsoft’s strategy for all next-generation platforms, including Windows Phone (all versions) and Windows 8/RT, which are designed to work as if you are simply connected all the time. Yes, they do work offline, of course. But the apps platform on these systems—which will be replicated on the Windows 8-based next Xbox—assumes a connection. Microsoft’s new platforms are integrated conduits for online services.
Click to expand...


Again not talking about online drm for games.
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
DopeyFish said:
Having always online (from MS POV): a) enhanced security b) better loss prevention/risk mitigation c) increased license mobility A can be managed without a persistent online connection, B really benefits from it but C... C is incredibly interesting for consumers, especially. If they shut everything down then it sucks... But you can have interesting scenarios occur to satisfy consumers (basically taking steam to an awesome new level) and also ease the frustrations of publishers and developers
Click to expand...
Absolutely none of that requires constant check-ins at three minute intervals during SP games, or else the game can't be played.
 
J

JABEE

Member
BruiserBear said:
This story is so awesome on so many levels. Just seeing people's reactions is entertaining. Especially those who were so sure it wasn't true over the past few months.

As much as my interest in the next Xbox has lessened, my interest in seeing them officially unveil it has grown, if only to see how they spin the decision as a good thing, when in fact every single reason they're doing this is related to obnoxious levels of greed and controlling their customers.

Remember folks, you're no longer going to own your games. Microsoft will decide when and how you can play that game, forever. You want to fire up that copy of Halo 5 a decade from now, you'd better hope Microsoft's servers are working, or you're not allowed to play that game you paid for. 20 years from now? lol, good luck with that.

It'll be like EA's server bullshit except now it'll apply to even your single player games.
Click to expand...

Yep. Just look at RockBand on the iPhone. Always-online is great!
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
I don't think it is for just DRM, although that makes it somewhat easier on them to manage the licenses and such. But I think their main point of needing/wanting this always online stuff is because they are positioning this box to be a "hub" of sorts for your entire home. A media streamer/recorder, home automator, game streamer, etc. They want any device that knows there is a 720 on the network to know that it should always be able to connect to it. I don't think this is something consumers are asking for, but I think this is what MS is targeting.

So....which is it Paul? Does it require an online connection or no??
Click to expand...

He was referring to W8 apps in that second bolded sentence.
 
D

DesertFox

Member
FordGTGuy said:
If anyone has any clue about future Microsoft products it would be Paul.
Click to expand...

I was referring specifically to the fact that he contradicts himself in the article. My point was that he doesn't seem to have any clue as to what people are upset about given the words he chose to write.

Folks, the next Xbox is going to require an always-on Internet connection. ......................

..........Yes, they do work offline, of course.
Click to expand...

So....which is it Paul? Does it require an online connection or no??
 
T

theviolenthero

Member
I've always been under the impression that all of these newer systems required a online connection to function.
I remember my Wii U requiring a download when i first booted it up & my 360 requires me to download system updates.
Could people without a internet connection even use a Wii U or 360 without these system updates?
Also, almost every 360 game i have at one time or another required a small download before i could play.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Ushae said:
What's the problem, didn't he just confirm that the console supports an offline mode?
Click to expand...
No he didn't. He explains that this is just the next step in a direction that Microsoft has been going into for a long time.
 
B

BlazingDarkness

Member
Hellraizer said:
So it's ok then to make all those rumors as facts? Thats whats happening.
Click to expand...

No, my point was, it's not 'jumping to conclusions', it's arriving at a conclusion based on several rumours that corroborate each other, there's nothing wrong with that at all. There are no facts until MS reveals them, so this is all we have.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Barkley's Justice said:
I can understand you being upset with ads and the like. And although I'm skeptical you're so profoundly affected by this that you only turn your XBL connection on to download things (surely, if this were the case, you have many other options available for gaming. The PC for example...), the fact is whether you recognize it or not, PS3 and Xbox 360 are already always online. Every device ever in the future will always be online.

I'm all for speaking your mind with your wallet, but a lot of you are sounding like you're applying the tinfoil hats to your dome, if you catch my meaning. Surely you have expounded more energy at this point bitching about it (still a rumor, mind you) when all you really need to do is not purchase it. Less effort, the latter, you see.
Click to expand...

I'm already not purchasing regardless of what the offical announcement looks like (at least not until after price drops and the like) but it doesn't hurt for me to share my views and opinions with other people. Especially if I am correct because being informed will lead to even more non-purchasers.

You also make it sound like I have to jump through so many hurdles to connect and disconnect on my xbox. It's as easy as plugging in or unplugging an adaptor so idk what you are skeptical about. And yes, I have PCs capable of play but I like playing on consoles (I know so weird) and this gen the 360 was the better choice.
 
U

ultim8p00

Banned
mavs said:
Xbox:


Windows/phone:


When has anyone said that Windows requires an always-on Internet connection? Clearly there is a difference between the next Xbox and Windows.
Click to expand...

Why would you consider everything else that is negative, (mainly the always-online internet connection) but ignore the part where it says the next Xbox is designed to follow the steps of the other devices, including the part where it says it will also work offline? You are only seeing what you want to see. There's conflicting information, and we can't conclude either way from what he said.
 
F

FordGTGuy

Banned
DesertFox said:
I was referring specifically to the fact that he contradicts himself in the artile. My point was that he doesn't seem to have any clue as to what people are upset about given the words he chose to write.



So....which is it Paul? Does it require an online connection or no??
Click to expand...

Actually it's you that aren't understanding what he is saying.

Always-on =/= Always-online

Always-on means the console will stay in a sleep mode when turned off which means you can still play games offline. Always-online means that the console requires a internet connection to work.

Ushae said:
What's the problem, didn't he just confirm that the console supports an offline mode?
Click to expand...

He said he doesn't know.

BlazingDarkness said:
No, my point was, it's not 'jumping to conclusions', it's arriving at a conclusion based on several rumours that corroborate each other, there's nothing wrong with that at all. There are no facts until MS reveals them, so this is all we have.
Click to expand...

That's what jumping to conclusions means, you're reaching a conclusion without all the facts.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
BlazingDarkness said:
No, my point was, it's not 'jumping to conclusions', it's arriving at a conclusion based on several rumours that corroborate each other, there's nothing wrong with that at all. There are no facts until MS reveals them, so this is all we have.
Click to expand...
There are no facts until the device is released and I can plug it in at home.

Sony has said their console will work without an internet connection and people still say "stuff is subject to change, I bet they will do it." here on GAF.

Edit: Right now the unfortunate realistic position to take is that Microsoft will require what is being rumored by several sources. If they deny it (just like Sony) they will still suffer from some people not believing them, but the majority will be calmed.
 
L

Louis Cyphre

Banned
ultim8p00 said:
I think this is the reason why this issue is such a clusterfuck. I don't know that an always-online console necessarily means that you can't play offline games. I think it means that the majority of the console-centric features of the console require an online connection. It just seems INCREDIBLY STUPID for microsoft to require a connection just so you can play games that you bought with your own money, so I don't think that's what they mean.



ding ding ding!
Click to expand...

I have to say I too agree,

Barkley's Justice said:
I can understand you being upset with ads and the like. And although I'm skeptical you're so profoundly affected by this that you only turn your XBL connection on to download things (surely, if this were the case, you have many other options available for gaming. The PC for example...), the fact is whether you recognize it or not, PS3 and Xbox 360 are already always online. Every device ever in the future will always be online.

I'm all for speaking your mind with your wallet, but a lot of you are sounding like you're applying the tinfoil hats to your dome, if you catch my meaning. Surely you have expounded more energy at this point bitching about it (still a rumor, mind you) when all you really need to do is not purchase it. Less effort, the latter, you see.
Click to expand...

To some people it's all about the principle.
 
M

mavs

Member
FordGTGuy said:
Actually it's you that aren't understanding what he is saying.

Always-on =/= Always-online

Always-on means the console will stay in a sleep mode when turned off which means you can still play games offline. Always-online means that the console requires a internet connection to work.
Click to expand...

He said "always-on Internet connection".
 
I

Interframe

Member
DesertFox said:
I was referring specifically to the fact that he contradicts himself in the artile. My point was that he doesn't seem to have any clue as to what people are upset about given the words he chose to write.



So....which is it Paul? Does it require an online connection or no??
Click to expand...

He may be referring to different aspects or features of the next Xbox requiring an always online connection. Certainly if the system is powered, it will at least turn on and something with be displayed on the screen even without an internet connection.
 
G

GoofsterStud

Member
So you still have to be online to start the game, and still have to be on every 3 minutes. This article did nothing to defute those claims.

All it did was reconfirm them by not implicitly stating otherwise.

So XBOX NEXT is the anti-consumer device of 2013.

Your account gets hacked (You can't connect to live and use your device it is now a brick)
You find yourself offline (You console is useless until this gets resolved)
Live is down (Your console is useless)
You account was halted by your ISP for bandwidth usage (your console is now bricked)

Now for privacy:

Your information is possibly sold to the highest bidder (see terms of service)
They know what's in your room at all time
Potential for spying
Pedophiles wet dream (my children will not play a console that has online and camera usage at the same time)...that's just asking for trouble
Ads: tailored to what kinetic detects in your house

This has do not buy written all over it.
 
J

JABEE

Member
The Kotaku article at least talked about requiring an online connection to play offline games. They said if you lose connection for three minutes, it takes you to a screen to repair your network.

That in conjunction with the events that have transpired since and this article make me believe that Microsoft is actually going forward with required always-online.

I think it is very reasonable to be upset about that. It is going to shape the rest of the industry in a negative way if it is successful, and will force other platform holders to adopt the practice if third parties start to require it with their releases.
 
D

DesertFox

Member
FordGTGuy said:
Actually it's you that aren't understanding what he is saying.

Always-on =/= Always-online

Always-on means the console will stay in a sleep mode when turned off which means you can still play games offline. Always-online means that the console requires a internet connection to work.
Click to expand...

I am fully aware of the difference. I have understood the difference since reading the leaked documents that detailed the console will be "always-on" to receive updates and patches.

The always-online that people are upset about is the recent leak that games won't even frickin load unless you have an internet connection. Now re-read his article where he says "It requires a connection to function, but it works offline". What does he mean by that? It won't load games without a connection? Or will it? Is what I'm saying clear to you? How can I help you understand what I'm saying?
 
I

Impeccable

Member
Barkley's Justice said:
I can understand you being upset with ads and the like. And although I'm skeptical you're so profoundly affected by this that you only turn your XBL connection on to download things (surely, if this were the case, you have many other options available for gaming. The PC for example...), the fact is whether you recognize it or not, PS3 and Xbox 360 are already always online. Every device ever in the future will always be online.

I'm all for speaking your mind with your wallet, but a lot of you are sounding like you're applying the tinfoil hats to your dome, if you catch my meaning. Surely you have expounded more energy at this point bitching about it (still a rumor, mind you) when all you really need to do is not purchase it. Less effort, the latter, you see.
Click to expand...

I think it's the fact the main rumours are that you cannot play your single player games on the next generation of Xbox without verification of being connected to the internet.

That's the issue.
 
U

ultim8p00

Banned
JaggedSac said:
I don't think it is for just DRM, although that makes it somewhat easier on them to manage the licenses and such. But I think their main point of needing/wanting this always online stuff is because they are positioning this box to be a "hub" of sorts for your entire home. A media streamer/recorder, home automator, game streamer, etc. They want any device that knows there is a 720 on the network to know that it should always be able to connect to it. I don't think this is something consumers are asking for, but I think this is what MS is targeting.



He was referring to W8 apps in that second bolded sentence.
Click to expand...

yes, as in W8 apps are always-online but also work offline...which he said the Next Xbox will follow in terms of strategy...you guys are trying REALLY hard to discredit that part of the quote, damn.
 
G

GoofsterStud

Member
DesertFox said:
I am fully aware of the difference. I have understood the difference since reading the leaked documents that detailed the console will be "always-on" to receive updates and patches.

The always-online that people are upset about is the recent leak that games won't even frickin load unless you have an internet connection. Now re-read his article where he says "It requires a connection to function, but it works offline". What does he mean by that? It won't load games without a connection? Or will it? Is what I'm saying clear to you? How can I help you understand what I'm saying?
Click to expand...

Exactly.. You can still turn it on. You can still trouble shoot your network!

Hurray it works!
 
M

mavs

Member
FordGTGuy said:
As in when the console goes into a sleep mode it maintains the internet connection, how is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...

And if your internet isn't always on? Semantically that phrase applies "always on" to "Internet connection", not the console itself.
 
statham

statham

Member
GoofsterStud said:
So you still have to be online to start the game, and still have to be on every 3 minutes. This article did nothing to defute those claims.

All it did was reconfirm them by not implicitly stating otherwise.

So XBOX NEXT is the anti-consumer device of 2013.

Your account gets hacked (You can't connect to live and use your device it is now a brick)
You find yourself online (You console is useless until this gets resolved)
Live is down (Your console is useless)
You account was halted by ur ISP for bandwidth usage (your console is now bricked)

Now for privacy:

Your information is possibly sold to the highest bidder (see terms of service)
They know what's in your room at all time
Potential for spying
Pedophiles wet dream (my children will not play a console that has online and camera usage at the same time)...that's just asking for trouble
Adds: tailored to what kinetic detects in your house

This has do not buy written all over it.
Click to expand...
wow, MS is probably going to raise your taxes too, and your electricity bill and you have to buy doritos too. Games are probably going to go up to $95 dollars and live will be raised to $100.
 
P

Proxy

Member
Triple U said:
I think "next Xbox is going to require a always on connection" is pretty cut and dry. Combined with the edge/kotaku/VGleaks rumors, "gaf insiders", and the Microsoft guy I don't think it's that hard to figure out.
Click to expand...

"But it's only rumors." Seriously, how many corroborating sources do some people need before they finally accept that Microsoft is going to release an always online required next gen Xbox? It's getting ridiculous.
 
S

SlickShoesRUCrazy

Member
DesertFox said:
I was referring specifically to the fact that he contradicts himself in the article. My point was that he doesn't seem to have any clue as to what people are upset about given the words he chose to write.



So....which is it Paul? Does it require an online connection or no??
Click to expand...

Not that hard to figure out. Win 8/wp8 work best with an internet connection. They are built to function in conjunction with connectivity so that the live tiles work and having access to the app store, etc.

Do these operating system function without the internet connection? Sure, but you aren't getting the full effect/functionality from them without an internet connection.
 
M

Mifune

Mehmber
DesertFox said:
I am fully aware of the difference. I have understood the difference since reading the leaked documents that detailed the console will be "always-on" to receive updates and patches.

The always-online that people are upset about is the recent leak that games won't even frickin load unless you have an internet connection. Now re-read his article where he says "It requires a connection to function, but it works offline". What does he mean by that? It won't load games without a connection? Or will it? Is what I'm saying clear to you? How can I help you understand what I'm saying?
Click to expand...

I think Paul is talking about two different things there. The offline mode comment is in reference to Windows phone and the like, NOT the next Xbox. Confusingly worded for sure.
 
T

Talon

Member
GoofsterStud said:
So you still have to be online to start the game, and still have to be on every 3 minutes. This article did nothing to defute those claims.

All it did was reconfirm them by not implicitly stating otherwise.

So XBOX NEXT is the anti-consumer device of 2013.

Your account gets hacked (You can't connect to live and use your device it is now a brick)
You find yourself online (You console is useless until this gets resolved)
Live is down (Your console is useless)
You account was halted by ur ISP for bandwidth usage (your console is now bricked)

Now for privacy:

Your information is possibly sold to the highest bidder (see terms of service)
They know what's in your room at all time
Potential for spying
Pedophiles wet dream (my children will not play a console that has online and camera usage at the same time)...that's just asking for trouble
Adds: tailored to what kinetic detects in your house

This has do not buy written all over it.
Click to expand...
Your check is in the mail.
 
J

JABEE

Member
FordGTGuy said:
As in when the console goes into a sleep mode it maintains the internet connection, how is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...

How could they "REQUIRE" you to do that? Will they ban you if you unplug your ethernet cable? That makes no sense in the context of the articles.
 
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