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FRIDAYTON MK II: 5.5 million bears and salmon create unholy allliance to sack SONY HQ

T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Literally the only reason I can think of to do this is to give a RAM sandpit for apps to run in. I mean, presumably the Xbone OS doesn't fill every bit of the 3GB with useful code all the time, right? It's just so that they can be sure that when you have a few apps running you're not interfering with RAM needed for a game. When you don't have apps running some of the 3GB is empty.

But...that's because the Xbone has a built-in app store. It's been designed to run Windows 8 apps. No such app store functionality exists on PS4 (as far as I know), so why the hell would they need that much RAM?
 
C

chrominance

Member
The PS3 OS had all sorts of issues competing on features with the 360 OS from a very early stage, and I'm pretty sure a bunch of them came down to "we'd love to put this feature in but we ran out of OS-dedicated memory." You can see it even now; the XMB isn't as fluid when you try to open it on top of a game, and it used to be quite a bit worse.

I don't know if 3.5GB is the right amount, honestly (I'd say probably not, given what Windows can run on, but I ain't no OS developer), but I would expect Sony to err on the side of giving the OS too much this generation.
 
P

Pound_lb003

Member
Eurogamer said:
However, sources close to Sony suggest that the PS4 approach is perhaps more flexible - the current allocation in terms of both CPU cores and memory could be reduced once the operating system is complete and then streamlined. In short, while there is no guarantee of change in the future, Sony is at least leaving the door open to the opportunity and the R&D team has experience in reducing the OS footprint - just as it did on PlayStation 3.
Click to expand...

So there's this as a caveat.

Basically, the dev kits they have now still aren't final - the documentation won't be either, the OS isn't 100% complete.

It's like everything, we won't know until the consoles are out. Even then, stuff like this might be under NDA.
 
C

Chokomofo

Banned
I'll wait for Sony PR (read: Yoshida's twitter, cause DAMN this dude has been tweetin' up a storm) to confirm or deny this...

At any rate, I'm curious how much RAM the XMB took to run in the background. I also wonder how much crap running in the background "3.5 GB for OS" equates to. It's all just really confusing to me.

I guess I'm asking something wild, because I don't necessarily care about the comparison between X1 and PS4 RAM... I'm concerned with the comparison between PS3 and PS4 RAM.


EDIT: Note - I'd like to say that the entire article seems to be worthless because IN the article, they note that "hey, it's just a dev kit and the OS isn't finished, and it could take way less RAM to run than what these document say, and it's all subject to change." Awesome. That's some great reporting.
 
A

Abominuz

Banned
I call BS, this was probably from the we only have 4GB era.
And the devkits had some more RAM to for developing purposes.
And 15 min of footage dont need so much ram.
My jaw would drop if Sony managed to keep this a secret the whole time.
 
E

Endo Punk

Member
PS4 is supposed to be a gaming system though. 3gb for the OS is so unnecessary. I don't care what they can do with OS with that much memory because I'd rather developers use it to make games that much better. Sony, STAHP!
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Mrbob said:
That's quite the OS bloat to go from 512MB to 2.5-3.5GB.

What a waste of memory. Something doesn't seem right, though.
Click to expand...

If this is true sony probably was really inefficient in the last 6 months in upgrading the os due to lack of time

Also no developer has come out and said anything about this all this time. Seems weird
 
K

KlotePino

Member
Oh for gods sake, how do you make an OS this bloated? If this is true that's extremely dissapointing to me because this kind of inefficient design just for the few upside that it has are not worth it for me. I don't have to record 15 mins of my gameplay or need the OS to be as nice and detailed as it is when there's no game running. Just have some kind of state in which the OS is much more barebones, uses less resources and still runs smooth. Cerny how could you've let this happen. <you-were-the-chosen-one.jpg>
 
iNvid02

iNvid02

Member
f7YMFew.gif
 
T

Takuya

Banned
shandy706 said:
Stop and think for a minute.

If they decided to upgrade the amount of video we can record (real time recording/encoding of video takes RAM), or if they decided to push the feature further, along with more multi-tasking or instant switching AFTER the upped the RAM to 8GB...that does NOT mean that there would have been .5GB before the upgrade.

Adding RAM, if the reserved amount is true, simply allowed them to push more things into memory that they may not have planned to do before with 4GB.
Click to expand...

Stop and think for a moment, the Killzone Shadowfall demo on the 20th was done on a devkit for 4GB of target RAM. It was also developed knowing about the video recording functionality and was displayed LIVE on the 20th (uploaded to Facebook). Functionality like that was already present.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Makes no sense for it to use 3.5GB, especially since they were targeting 4GB total initially which would leave just 512MB for games.

I'm on the sceptical side personally.
 
K

KorrZ

Member
Need confirmation on this - how the fuck does the OS possibly need 3.5 GB of memory??? FULL Windows can run on 1GB, and there's no way a console OS should be nearly as bloated.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
15 mins of recorded video, assuming they are using any sort of modern encoder, would take up at most ~1GB. And that's at 1080p with bit rates approaching Blu-ray.

And off course that means you're also storing the entire 15 minutes in memory, which would be stupid and almost definitely not the case. At most they'd be keeping 15-30 second buffer in memory and writing the rest to the hard drive.
 
SEGAvangelist

SEGAvangelist

Member
I see this as good news, though. Console parity is good for third party developers, and Sony should be able to offer better performance in non-gaming related and social functions.
 
C

chadskin

Member
Brad Grenz said:
Digital Foundry has been acting like Microsoft's specialized FUD division lately and have made several patently false claims about the PS4. I would not take their word for anything.
Click to expand...

They've also pretty quickly squashed Microsofts claims about the infinite power of the cloud. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're biased in one way or the other.
 
K

KidBeta

Junior Member
Enhanced said:
What are people going on about 0.5GB RAM for?

It's quite clear from the article: the upgrade to 8GB allowed Sony to be more ambitious with the OS, where previously it was slated for 512MB because there wasn't much RAM to play with, OS-wise.
Click to expand...

But you dont just increase your OS reservations by 4x-8x over night.
 
D

daveo42

Banned
GG has said they were running on 3GB before the Feb. reveal and were glad to know they had some extra room now (paraphrase), so either Sony realized they couldn't fit all the stuff they wanted into 1GB or this article is complete BS.

I'd go with #2.

This would also mean that Sony has essentially thrown out any progress they've had with the Vita OS and it's ability to multitask without needlessly taking up ram.

Completely legit to me guise.
 
S

shandy706

Member
Amir0x said:
They built a share button into the controller; I find it hard to believe they didn't always have big 15 min recording plans for it since then. 3GB is not required for that.
Click to expand...

Well technically having a share button doesn't mean there's a set amount of time to share. It's probably flexible and could be changed up or down in the future (or at any point while they were finalizing things)
 
1

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
They should reduce the constant recording to 10 minutes. 5 is too little, 15 is too much.
 
C

Crimson_Gold

Member
Verendus, I summon thee!!!!

This isn't the end of the world at all, but I want some answers from someone that I can trust. Thuway, Demonite, anyone? Help us.

Cerny, come forth.
 
M

meppi

Member
Yawnier said:
LMAO.
Click to expand...

Yeah take that guys word for it lol.

These Sony fanboys kneejerking and shitting on Richard or DF are just as bad as the Xbox fanboys that were wishing for bad news yesterday.
A couple of hours ago it was these guys that were yelling about MS fanboys being exposed, yet now they are showing their true colours themselves. Bit pathetic if you ask me.


chadskin said:
They've also pretty quickly squashed Microsofts claims about the infinite power of the cloud. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're biased in one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
B

BRocknRolla

Member
I admit, I find this disappointing though not wholly surprising. Sony's OS on PS3 had significant performance problems, so I imagine this will largely alleviate the concern. But as someone who doesn't care about those bells and whistles, I guess I'd rather see less reserved.

The only thing that makes me question this is the second to last paragraph where they discuss how it is "flexible" and can be reduced "once the OS is complete." Are they implying the OS is not complete and this is therefore only an internal placeholder for now? Seems like that might be what Sony would comment on.
 
DietRob

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
Amir0x said:
So where is Sony's "comment" on this subject? They didn't wait for it after all?
Click to expand...

This is what I was wondering. I also wonder if over time the RAM footprint for the OS can decrease? I have no knowledge on the subject.

5.5 gb of ddr5 ram is still a pretty substantial chunk. Let's not go and make mountains out of molehills.
 
F

FunkyPajamas

Member
To the people saying "before the update games were running on 0.5GBs"... I'm not trying to justify the article, but giving it the benefit of the doubt: perhaps the initial devkits ran with a barebones OS? Giving all the RAM to the games instead.

I really don't know anymore.
 
J

jayu26

Member
Okay here is the part.
PlayStation 4 reserves 3.5GB of its 8GB GDDR5 memory for the operating system, leaving 4.5GB of space for game code, according to current PlayStation 4 documentation shown to Digital Foundry by a well-placed development source. However, further sources suggest that an additional 1GB of "flexible memory" may be reclaimed from the OS reservation, based on availability.
Click to expand...

Can someone track down this "documentation"? Specifically I'm interested in knowing how old it is. And what the fuck is Sony doing with all this memory?
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
DarkLordMalik said:
I think this approach is actually pretty smart. Earlier games won't require much RAM and hence it makes sense to allocate less RAM for them but as the generation will progress, if their is need for it, they can squeeze out extra space from RAM.
Click to expand...

This seems possible for both next gen platforms.

Most early next gen games won't even need all the memory but I'm sure devs will find ways to utilize it.

I have no doubt that the OS footprint will be reduced over time much like PS3.
 
SEGAvangelist

SEGAvangelist

Member
fluffydelusions said:
Sounds like they are trying to sort of future proof the os maybe? So they can add features years down the line without a performance hit.
Click to expand...

This actually sounds reactionary to MS's vision for Xbox One.

metalslimer said:
What? And no they are still not close to parity
Click to expand...

They are closer. Sony also made it flexible allowing the OS footprint to be reduced as they please. It's a better idea than what MS did.
 
K

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
Odrion said:
ONCE AGAIN

When the PS4 had only 4gigs, the OS had a smaller footprint.
Click to expand...

That just doesn't make any sense. You had 4gigs of ram, games had acess to 3.5gb and the OS took 512mb.
Now you have 8gb, the OS footprint goes from 512mb to 3.5gb? That's seven times more. That's just...retarded, to say the least.
 
C

clav

Member
metalslimer said:
That doesn't take this much RAM
Click to expand...
Are you sure?

If Sony is really considering caching to the hard drive for 15 minutes recording, this will affect game loading times if it always has the hard drive writing. Seek times increase the more a mechanical hard drive does.

Kazuma Kiryu said:
That just doesn't make any sense. You had 4gigs of ram, games had acess to 3.5gb and the OS took 512mb.
Now you have 8gb, the OS footprint goes from 512mb to 3.5gb? That's seven times more. That's just...retarded, to say the least.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the OS did less (i.e. less game recording time, cross game chat) before the GDDR5 RAM upgrade.
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
Takuya said:
Stop and think for a moment, the Killzone Shadowfall demo on the 20th was done on a devkit for 4GB of target RAM. It was also developed knowing about the video recording functionality and was displayed LIVE on the 20th (uploaded to Facebook). Functionality like that was already present.
Click to expand...

This.

Also it's a waste of GDDR5 RAM and money.
 
Bojanglez

Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
People saying it would have only been 0.5 for games before the upgrade are probably thinking of this the wrong way around. Maybe Sony is playing the wait and see game, they probably only reserved 0.5GB when it was 4GB but have decided (for the time being) to only give the devs 1GB of the additional provided by changing to 8GB.

This lets them see exactly what they need for the OS maybe in the first year before freeing it up. They can easily give them more over time, but once they have given it up they can't get it back.

The same principle applies to MS too, they are probably both playing cautiously for launch knowing that historically devs don't start pushing the limits within a console's first year.
 
D

def sim

Member
Seems like this is the end of the world to people who didn't know what RAM is in the first place. Whether or not this is true, it'll be just fine guys.
 
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