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[Abooie]

This thread has proven to me that their are far more Xbots than Playstation fans. I am absolutely convinced that some of you work at Microsoft. I mean, the amount of Kinect cheer-leading is astonishing. I am truly amazed at the sheer number of bots. I like how all of these Kinect cheerleaders act like their were so many more naysayers about Kinect than people saying it would do well. All of you guys have been far more vocal about Kinect than anybody else. And guys we get it, Kinect was a huge success, but enough is enough.

@REMEMBER CITADEL
@TheOddOne
@Arpharmd B
@30SomethingGamer
@Watchtower
@OldJadedGamer
@szaromir


Just fucking stop it.

Wow. Really?

In a thread that was always going to be about how Kinect has rejuvenated Microsoft's position and made them the US industry leader you want people to talk about something else. Also anyone who's not dismayed by this outcome should be put on a list like some sex pest...

 

[jvm]

What the heck happened in here? Sheesh.

Anyway, turned my column in to Gamasutra. They'll scan over and edit it in the morning, and hopefully it will pass muster. See you then.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

What the heck happened in here? Sheesh.

Anyway, turned my column in to Gamasutra. They'll scan over and edit it in the morning, and hopefully it will pass muster. See you then.

Do you have DS and PSP numbers?

 

[TheOddOne]

This thread has proven to me that their are far more Xbots than Playstation fans. I am absolutely convinced that some of you work at Microsoft. I mean, the amount of Kinect cheer-leading is astonishing. I am truly amazed at the sheer number of bots. I like how all of these Kinect cheerleaders act like their were so many more naysayers about Kinect than people saying it would do well. All of you guys have been far more vocal about Kinect than anybody else. And guys we get it, Kinect was a huge success, but enough is enough.

Time to actually do research then make accusations.

 

[Lebron]

Come on, PS3 constantly got shat on as well, I saw it a ton back then

Only by the GBA

 

[Kujo]

Only by the GBA

GBA was a cool guy

 

[Ultima ratio regum]

I'm still amazed ps3 is in 3rd in the USA. It doesn't make sense.

 

[butter_stick]

I'm still amazed ps3 is in 3rd in the USA. It doesn't make sense.

It's the most expensive console, and non of the generation defining games have been exclusive to it.

The real question is why wouldn't it be third?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I can't say it in any simpler way, since the launch of the ps3 till now ww the ps3 has reduced the 360's lead from 8.7 million down to 2.9 million and worldwide the 360 hasn't outsold the ps3 for over a year and a half. If that doesn't equal the ps3 has been consitantly outselling the 360 then i don't know what else to say to you.

That's great, because that's pretty much what I've been saying as well, except for the consistently outselling part and except for the fact that it hasn't been "over a year and a half", but a bit less than a year and a half (five quarters). Like I already said, relative sales of both consoles are very dependent on price drops and hardware revisions/new hardware introductions. The reason the PS3 has been outselling the 360 for five quarters (which has now stopped since the introduction of Kinect because in the last quarter they were tied) is that's when PS3 slim was introduced and its price reduced to $299, while Xbox 360 had the last price drop more than two and a half years ago, in August 2008.

Maybe it will be easier to grasp if I just draw it for you (data taken from here and here):

I apologize for being off-topic in an NPD thread, I'll drop this discussion now.

 

[doicare]

That's great, because that's pretty much what I've been saying as well, except for the consistently outselling part and except for the fact that it hasn't been "over a year and a half", but a bit less than a year and a half (five quarters). Like I already said, relative sales of both consoles are very dependent on price drops and hardware revisions/new hardware introductions. The reason the PS3 has been outselling the 360 for five quarters (which has now stopped since the introduction of Kinect because in the last quarter they were tied) is that's when PS3 slim was introduced and its price reduced to $299, while Xbox 360 had the last price drop more than two and a half years ago, in August 2008.

Maybe it will be easier to grasp if I just draw it for you
I apologize for being off-topic in an NPD thread, I'll drop this discussion now.

*Facepalm*
All you've done is repost what i have already said and backed up the fact that the ps3 has been consistantly outselling the 360 with the graph. If you'd read what i had said you would have seen i wrote the 360 has failed to outsell the ps3 for over a year and a half, not the ps3 has outsold the 360 for over a year and a half, there's a difference between the two. For 5 quarters in a row the ps3 outsold the 360, followed by one tied quarter, followed by so far this year based on the numbers we have and best estimates the ps3 has gone back to outselling the 360 worldwide, so no you are wrong. Since both consoles have been on the market the ps3 has had double the amount of quarters where it has outsold the 360 (10 quarters to 5), overall it has reduced the gap by 5.8 million and for over a year and a half the 360 has failed to outsell the ps3. Facts are facts, the ps3 has been consistently catching up to the 360.

 

[V_Arnold]

Whao.... I have no words. People calling names of "Kinect cheerladers" and in the meantime being enraged when someone suggest the unholy idea of Xbox 360 selling just as good, or - dare to say - even a bit better ever since Kinect has been introduced. Wow, just wow.

Oh, and doicare. Numbers. How do they work?

 

[[Nintex]]

Are you guys having a "Who's going to replace Peter Dille" competition or something.

 

[mxgt]

These last few pages have truly been a joy to read.

 

[doicare]

Whao.... I have no words. People calling names of "Kinect cheerladers" and in the meantime being enraged when someone suggest the unholy idea of Xbox 360 selling just as good, or - dare to say - even a bit better ever since Kinect has been introduced. Wow, just wow.

Oh, and doicare. Numbers. How do they work?

Trick question?

Stating numbers and facts to show that people were incorrect about a sales gap = enraged?

 

[V_Arnold]

Trick question?

Stating numbers and facts to show that people were incorrect about a sales gap = enraged?

Well, this post pretty much says it all.

In the quoted part, you clearly say that "I can't say it in any simpler way, since the launch of the ps3 till now ww the ps3 has reduced the 360's lead from 8.7 million down to 2.9 million and worldwide the 360 hasn't outsold the ps3 for over a year and a half. If that doesn't equal the ps3 has been consitantly outselling the 360 then i don't know what else to say to you."

Then, you get a perfectly clear answer for you with a GRAPH clearly showing that "constantly outselling" is not happening, beecause that is not how a function looks like when it is strictly decreasing. There has been points where 360 gained on the lead several times ever since PS3 has been introduced, and clearly, the lead started to decrease drastically only when PS3 introduced the slim+pricecut against the 360. What the hell is *facepalm*-worthy for you for this? Clearly, something must have enraged you to resort to something like that in a discussion about numbers and sales data.

 

[MrCookiepants]

It's the most expensive console, and non of the generation defining games have been exclusive to it.

The real question is why wouldn't it be third?

And what generation defining games are exclusive to the 360?

 

[ConradCervantes]

And what generation defining games are exclusive to the 360?

If Gears Of War doesn't define this generation with the sheer amount of He-man space marine cover shooters that have come out in its wake, I don't know what else would.

 

[doicare]

Well, this post pretty much says it all.

In the quoted part, you clearly say that "I can't say it in any simpler way, since the launch of the ps3 till now ww the ps3 has reduced the 360's lead from 8.7 million down to 2.9 million and worldwide the 360 hasn't outsold the ps3 for over a year and a half. If that doesn't equal the ps3 has been consitantly outselling the 360 then i don't know what else to say to you."

Then, you get a perfectly clear answer for you with a GRAPH clearly showing that "constantly outselling" is not happening, beecause that is not how a function looks like when it is strictly decreasing. There has been points where 360 gained on the lead several times ever since PS3 has been introduced, and clearly, the lead started to decrease drastically only when PS3 introduced the slim+pricecut against the 360. What the hell is *facepalm*-worthy for you for this? Clearly, something must have enraged you to resort to something like that in a discussion about numbers and sales data.

Hahaha o wow all of this over a simple typo, consitantly isn't even a word, that word was supposed to be consistently. And consistently to me means the majority or vast majority of the time, which is exactly what i have been showing in all my numbers and examples.

 

[MrCookiepants]

If Gears Of War doesn't define this generation with the sheer amount of He-man space marine cover shooters that have come out in its wake, I don't know what else would.

Except that's not exclusive. Also, it's old as fuck. I doubt it sold any 360s this February. It's pretty clear that Kinect is what's driving hardware atm, not any generation defining exclusive games (or lack thereof).

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Hahaha o wow all of this over a simple typo, consitantly isn't even a word, that word was supposed to be consistently. And consistently to me means the majority or vast majority of the time, which is exactly what i have been showing in all my numbers and examples.

Well, that explains it. It's not that you have a problem with math, you have a problem with understanding of the English language.

 

[TheOddOne]

Excpet that's not exclusive. Also, it's old as fuck. I doubt it sold any 360s this February. It's pretty clear that Kinect is what's driving hardware atm, not any genre defining exclusive games (or lack thereof).

You know this works both ways, right?

 

[MrCookiepants]

You know this works both ways, right?

I don't follow.

 

[V_Arnold]

Hahaha o wow all of this over a simple typo, consitantly isn't even a word, that word was supposed to be consistently. And consistently to me means the majority or vast majority of the time, which is exactly what i have been showing in all my numbers and examples.

Well, that statement might be considered more acceptable, ofc.
With a quick glance on that difference graph, since PS3 release, 10 quarters have been in favor of PS3, and 6 has been equal or in favor of 360. 5 Quarters out of those Ps3 wins were thanks to the Slim. Another 4 of those 5 quarters were the time when PS3 recieved its first price drop (with 360 also recieving one), and 360 has yet to recieve its second price drop. When it finally did (2008 q3), there has been 3 quarters of increasing 360 lead again. The remaining one quarter is the quarter when PS3 was introduced, so a launch perioud.

My point is: while it is awesome to simplify stuff sometimes, this generation has been anything but simple. There has been a lot of momentum shifts between all the different regions, and it is clear that PS3-360 relation always depended on what was the current best deal, when did one or another recieve serious price cuts, and what happened in the holiday seasons.

 

[doicare]

Well, that explains it. It's not that you have a problem with math, you have a problem with understanding of the English language.

Thanks for only being mildly insulting about the typo, in all fairness i did spell the word correctly in my last reply. Nevermind crisis over.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Thanks for only being mildly insulting about the typo, in all fairness i did spell the word correctly in my last reply. Nevermind crisis over.

I wasn't talking about the typo, but your understanding of the word "consistently". Something can not be consistent when there are contradictions.

No need to get upset, though, you live and learn.

 

[TheOddOne]

I don't follow.

First you ask what genre definining games where released on the 360, one person says its Gears of War. You say it aint exclusive, that true but was for a long time exclusive to the 360. That game inspired a lot of cover-based shooters released this gen, even Uncharted. You come back with sales figure type argument, which isn't really relevant. I said that your argument about sales works both ways -- I doubt PS3 exclusives are the biggest contributors to PS3 sales.

 

[szaromir]

Do we always have to go through these worldwide sales shenaningans?

 

[doicare]

Well, that statement might be considered more acceptable, ofc.
With a quick glance on that difference graph, since PS3 release, 10 quarters have been in favor of PS3, and 6 has been equal or in favor of 360. 5 Quarters out of those Ps3 wins were thanks to the Slim. Another 4 of those 5 quarters were the time when PS3 recieved its first price drop (with 360 also recieving one), and 360 has yet to recieve its second price drop. When it finally did (2008 q3), there has been 3 quarters of increasing 360 lead again. The remaining one quarter is the quarter when PS3 was introduced, so a launch perioud.

My point is: while it is awesome to simplify stuff sometimes, this generation has been anything but simple. There has been a lot of momentum shifts between all the different regions, and it is clear that PS3-360 relation always depended on what was the current best deal, when did one or another recieve serious price cuts, and what happened in the holiday seasons.

Sure, well of course there are always reasons why things happen and in no way was i trying to say the ps3 has been outselling the 360 'just because'. However the reasons you give in my opinion aren't exceptionally unusual circumstances worth mentioning, they are just part of the natural console cycle and they happen nearly every single generation. One console comes out first, another comes out later and is more high tech but more expensive. One console gets a price drop, the other one matches it. One console gets a redesign or new colours the other one follows suit. It's all pretty cut and dry as far as i'm concerned and i don't see anything dramatically changing from the predictions i made after all 3 consoles had been on the market for a full year. Microsoft claiming victory (or ties) for a few quarters here and there is all how i thought it would pan out. People laughed at me back in 2006/2007 when i said the Wii would run out of steam because of a lack of decent/constant software and wouldn't become the new ps2, so i'm used to people having a problem with some of my more bold predictions.

 

[butter_stick]

And what generation defining games are exclusive to the 360?

Halo, although that moment has probably passed. Gears to an extent.

The fact is it's cheaper than the PS3 and the PS3 doesn't have the software to make it seem more valuable to most people. Ignore the quality of the PS3 library, the point is there isn't a GTA style situation where exclusives drive it, unlike the PS2.

Basically, it's $300 for COD or $400 for COD.

 

[evolution]

Halo, although that moment has probably passed. Gears to an extent.

The fact is it's cheaper than the PS3 and the PS3 doesn't have the software to make it seem more valuable to most people. Ignore the quality of the PS3 library, the point is there isn't a GTA style situation where exclusives drive it, unlike the PS2.

Basically, it's $300 for COD or $400 for COD.

Isn't it 300 or 200?

 

[V_Arnold]

Sure, well of course there are always reasons why things happen and in no way was i trying to say the ps3 has been outselling the 360 'just because'. However the reasons you give in my opinion aren't exceptionally unusual circumstances worth mentioning, they are just part of the natural console cycle and they happen nearly every single generation. One console comes out first, another comes out later and is more high tech but more expensive. One console gets a price drop, the other one matches it. One console gets a redesign or new colours the other one follows suit. It's all pretty cut and dry as far as i'm concerned and i don't see anything dramatically changing from the predictions i made after all 3 consoles had been on the market for a full year. Microsoft claiming victory (or ties) for a few quarters here and there is all how i thought it would pan out. People laughed at me back in 2006/2007 when i said the Wii would run out of steam because of a lack of decent/constant software and wouldn't become the new ps2, so i'm used to people having a problem with some of my more bold predictions.

Let us come back to this in a year, and see if PS3 had caught up, or it still has a 3-4-5 million to catch up. It is starting to be SEVEN YEARS since 360 is in the market, the relevancy of one "overtaking" another is starting to lose its significance pretty fast. Especially when we compare the business models. I say 360 will not be overtaken, thanks to the more successful Slim model and the much, much more succesful Kinect. And the more breathing room to reduce price.

 

[doicare]

I wasn't talking about the typo, but your understanding of the word "consistently". Something can not be consistent when there are contradictions.

No need to get upset, though, you live and learn.

Well if you want to get picky the English language is a constantly evolving thing and the word consistently can be taken to mean different things given different contexts. If you said the sentence "I've been consistently good at hitting the ball with the bat today" to the average person, most wouldn't take that to mean you hit the ball 100% of the time, or that the way you hit the ball was absolutely 100% the same each time, the average person would take that to mean you weren't perfect but overall you were very good at hitting the ball. As i said, no big deal, the misunderstanding has been cleared up.

 

[butter_stick]

Isn't it 300 or 200?

Not if you're truly Elite.

 

[[Nintex]]

Well if you want to get picky the English language is a constantly evolving thing and the word consistently can be taken to mean different things given different contexts. If you said the sentence "I've been consistently good at hitting the ball with the bat today" to the average person, most wouldn't take that to mean you hit the ball 100% of the time, or that the way you hit the ball was absolutely 100% the same each time, the average person would take that to mean you weren't perfect but overall you were very good at hitting the ball. As i said, no big deal, the misunderstanding has been cleared up.

So you're spinning the English language now?

Well at least your actions are consistent.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consistent

 

[doicare]

Let us come back to this in a year, and see if PS3 had caught up, or it still has a 3-4-5 million to catch up. It is starting to be SEVEN YEARS since 360 is in the market, the relevancy of one "overtaking" another is starting to lose its significance pretty fast. Especially when we compare the business models. I say 360 will not be overtaken, thanks to the more successful Slim model and the much, much more succesful Kinect. And the more breathing room to reduce price.

Sure yeah, i like coming back and viewing old predictions. For the record my prediction is the ps3 ww for the calendar year will close the gap by atleast another 1.5 million provided sony matches any 360 price drop within a month of it happening, otherwise the majority of the gain will happen in 2012 and by the end of that year the ps3 will have edged past the 360.

 

[butter_stick]

So you're spinning the English language now?

Well at least your actions are consistent.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consistent

Words are weightless here on Earth.
Because they're free.

 

[doicare]

So you're spinning the English language now?

Well at least your actions are consistent.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consistent

Well to begin with consistent and consistently are two different words, but just to show my point that the word consistently can be taken to mean different things take a look at:
http://thesaurus.com/browse/consistently
Main Entry: consistently
Definition: usually
Synonyms: always, as usual, constantly, customarily, frequently, habitually, normally, per usual, persistently, regularly, routinely, steadily, typically

Plenty of words that potentially contradict each other.

 

[DMeisterJ]

It's so weird this late in the generation there are really sales-age wars still waging... My god, the amount of cheer-leading and defense on both sides is almost sad... As if people are truly happy or upset over the sales of multi-billion dollar companies...

 

[confuziz]

It's so weird this late in the generation there are really sales-age wars still waging... My god, the amount of cheer-leading and defense on both sides is almost sad... As if people are truly happy or upset over the sales of multi-billion dollar companies...

like you weren't like that before mister james =P

 

[Dragon]

Semantics is really the argument here. People constantly misunderstand what people say and then jump on them for it.

My opinion? I don't think there's any question Kinect is spurring MS sales. I know correlation doesn't imply causation but the numbers speak for themselves. Regardless how you spin it.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

The 360 get's a lot of flack here on GAF for some reason. I was almost ready to make a thread about it. Basically I think now with Kinect the 360 is the all around console to own (if you can only afford one console) this generation. All my opinion of course. The platform doesn't have any real weaknesses other than a current lack of 1st party exclusives at the moment. This wasn't the case until this year, really, with their primary focus now on Kinect though. With good reason, clearly it's a big money maker for them.

The 360 is the most expensive console at this point and easily at PC expense levels if you play games online - and guess what, the vast majority of GAF plays games online.

The resentment is and should be palpable.

 

[butter_stick]

The 360 is the most expensive console at this point and easily at PC expense levels if you play games online - and guess what, the vast majority of GAF plays games online.

The resentment is and should be palpable.

PS3 is the most expensive console if you buy and play Blu Ray movies with it.

Besides, most of GAF should have got free Live till 2013 from that Netflix exploit.

 

[ConradCervantes]

PS3 is the most expensive console if you buy and play Blu Ray movies with it.

Besides, most of GAF should have got free Live till 2013 from that Netflix exploit.

I didn't have a 360 at the time, so I didn't bother with that exploit. Feel so fucking dumb about that now.

And Blu Ray has certainly come down over time. You could get Inception for $17 at release, and I saw it on Amazon for even less at one point.

 

[plagiarize]

I didn't have a 360 at the time, so I didn't bother with that exploit. Feel so fucking dumb about that now.

And Blu Ray has certainly come down over time. You could get Inception for $17 at release, and I saw it on Amazon for even less at one point.

you should try looking at 3D blu-ray prices. YEESH!

 

[Haunted]

 

[MYE]

This thread has proven to me that their are far more Xbots than Playstation fans. I am absolutely convinced that some of you work at Microsoft. I mean, the amount of Kinect cheer-leading is astonishing. I am truly amazed at the sheer number of bots. I like how all of these Kinect cheerleaders act like their were so many more naysayers about Kinect than people saying it would do well. All of you guys have been far more vocal about Kinect than anybody else. And guys we get it, Kinect was a huge success, but enough is enough.

@REMEMBER CITADEL
@TheOddOne
@Arpharmd B
@30SomethingGamer
@Watchtower
@OldJadedGamer
@szaromir


Just fucking stop it.

haha

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

And what generation defining games are exclusive to the 360?

In the US,

Call of Duty 2
GRAW
Rainbow Six Vegas
Dead Rising
Saints Row
Lost Planet
Halo 3
Halo ODST
Halo Wars
Halo Reach
Gears
Gears 2
Left 4 Dead
Left 4 Dead 2
The Orange Box
Bioshock
Oblivion
Rock Band
Rock Band 2
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Fable 2
Fable 3
Dance Central
Kinect Sports

Were all full, timed or console exclusive to 360. To my knowledge, all sold >500k to well over a million copies in just the US (when they were still full price), on just the 360, so I'd say they help define this generation of US gaming pretty well.

That list for PS3 (again, US only) is something like

Resistance
Uncharted
Uncharted 2
Metal Gear Solid 4
Killzone 2
Gran Turismo Prologue
Gran Turismo 5
Little Big Planet 2

And, as I posted a few days ago, Fable 3 is a bigger seller than all of them. All of the other best-selling games for both platforms are day and date multiplat. That is why the 360 is winning in the US vs the PS3. The Nintendo list is massive and includes games that are exponentially more popular than some of those listed here, which is why the Wii is LTD first place in the US.

 

[CadetMahoney]

This thread sure proves that there are still some bitter people as to how this gen has played out. I love the fact that worldwide numbers keep popping up in NPD threads yet it is never the other way around in the other sales threads. It goes to show that there quite a few people from other regions that absolutely hate the fact that the Xbox brand has been so successful this gen.

Worldwide sales are the new North America sales didn't you know.

Can't wait for more worldwide sales talk in the next NPD.

 

[plagiarize]

In the US,

The Orange Box


That list for PS3 (again, US only) is something like

*snip*

you're missing a few from the PS3 side. i'm kind of confused at the ommission of Little Big Planet.

The Orange Box was i believe day and date on PS3.

 

[butter_stick]

Orange Box was delayed for a bit on PS3, because EA developed it themselves.