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[RatskyWatsky]

Do we know the LTD for X/X-2 HD? 200+K for two weeks in NA is really good right? How well did it do in Japan and Europe?

 

[metalslimer]

I think just the price is killing the xbone more than any if the ps4's games and performance

If both consoles play a majority of of the same games and I doubt that the typical consumer cares about resolution or if the game is 30/60fps. They see that price tag and that glaring 100 dollar difference. That alone is the gamechanger.

Of course, and the longer their is a price disparity, the less impact MS's eventual price cut will have because the PS4 will have taken over as the primary multiplayer system in America.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Considering the manufacturing costs are estimated to be around $470, Best Buy is obviously paying MS less than $499 per console as they need to make a profit, and that's not factoring all the R&D, marketing, etc., yeah I don't think it's likely they are making a very slight profit... What they say all depends on how they calculate it.

No we were talking about if sale to retailers is meaningful. It's not. Companies don't thrive on revenue, they thrive on profit.

Revenue - expenses = profit

Of course shipments to retailers is meaningful. That is a sale for Microsoft. Retailers pay Microsoft for the consoles, not consumers. As long as your revenue is greater than your expenses, you're making a profit. We'll find that out at quarter or years end. But revenue is the first step toward making a profit.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

do you guys think MGSV Ground Zeroes was worth it from a financial perspective?

211K in JPN first week and 278K in US first month. Multiplied by $30 (2980 yen = 29 dollars) will give about 14 million in revenue between them.

Probably makes it worth it right?

It's a paid demo. If course it did. lol

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Yeah its really crazy. I certainly didnt expect it to be over a million. Even crazier you have people suggesting the game flopped because it didnt force a million people to run out and spend $500 in March. Just SMH...

I mean, I get what people are talking about. It didn't live up to the expectation on paper of being a system mover ot beat the PS4, but undoubtedly it moved a lot more systems for MS than it would have if it was multiplat or a timed exclusive. Now, that number isn't obtainable, but it's just kind of understood. To say that the GAME itself flopped is downright obsurd and only proves to identify some people's true motives.

But really an attach rate at what I guess, based on an almost 40% attach with physical, to be 45% in the US with digital factored in...by golly.

edit: below me, nice avatar

 

[jblank83]

Omg i missed the numberdaybusinesstalk postgasm. Now i have to wait an entire 30 days for it to happen again ;_;

Damn... guess I better go play some video games or something dumb like that.

 

[Flo_Evans]

The retailer *could* set their system to sell at a different price point but the supplier is still going to expect the payment sent to them to be at the previous cost which they had communicated to the retailer earlier via UPC communication which is then acknowledged by the retailer as being received and active. A retailer adjusting it on their own is going to likely cause problems. For an SBT relationship costs have to be in snyc at all times, cost changes are sent in advance with activiation dates by the supplier so everyones system is ready for when a price on a product is going to change.

Most of the time the supplier and retailer would work together on a price change if such was happening due to an upcoming promotion or permanent change in sales price. So if Microsoft or any supplier for that matter wanted to have a special sales promoted that they say on 3/15 begin selling a SKU for XXX.XX and keep that active until 4/15 for example and then change back to ZZZ.ZZ, they could do so without too much trouble if everything is running as it should.

Since both sides are carefully monitoring sales movement I've seen both sides offer up 'suggestions' on price changes although you need retailer okay typically before doing so as it could effect their margins on that square footage of store space.

Well I know right now walmart has it for $450. But you can't see that price until you put it in your cart.

The only time I see those kinds of deals (amazon does it allot) is when a manufacturer forbids advertising it at a lower price than MSRP.

I really can't imagine walmart eating $50 to clear stock. It really only makes sense to me if they already bought them for $450 and want to get rid of them. I don't think its any kind of official deal but I guess it is possible MS made a deal with only walmart? Amazon and target it looks like it is $499 (with titanfall). I don't see the console by itself anywhere else for $450.

 

[Maximilian E.]

Its the price that keeps Xbox One from Selling better.

I havent read the whole thread, do we have any comparison between PS3 and Xbox One saleswise? The first couple of months?

 

[Wynnebeck]

I think just the price is killing the xbone more than any if the ps4's games and performance

If both consoles play a majority of of the same games and I doubt that the typical consumer cares about resolution or if the game is 30/60fps. They see that price tag and that glaring 100 dollar difference. That alone is the gamechanger.

I'm starting to think differently. Even if the Xbone was on price parity with the PS4, the fact that PS4 still offers the superior online subscription with PS+ and plays multi-platforms as well as having some of the best looking exclusives, it's going to persuade fence-sitters to go along with the PS4.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Thank you (and everyone else) for your answer. I guess my problem is that I already have a 360 and PS3, and apart from the bump in graphics, I haven't seen any next-gen experiences that I want and can't get on my current platforms. Most of the system exclusives that I enjoyed from the last gen were on the 360, and Xbox Live was miles ahead of PSN. I have heard that the gap is closing fast, but PSN still makes me wary, and I'm reticent overall to drop $500+ (system plus another controller and tax makes this the minimum) for what's out there at the moment.

Oh well, didn't mean to turn this into a thread derail.

I can't think of any facet of LIVE that is better than PSN right now.

 

[bigboss370]

do you guys think MGSV Ground Zeroes was worth it from a financial perspective?

211K in JPN first week and 278K in US first month. Multiplied by $30 (2980 yen = 29 dollars) will give about 14 million in revenue between them.

Probably makes it worth it right?

that doesn't take into account digital sales either i believe, i'm sure it sold alot that way.

 

[Krakn3Dfx]

Its the price that keeps Xbox One from Selling better.

People keep saying this, but for a good part of March, retailers were lopping $50 or more off the price of the console with a copy of Titanfall or Forza, and the PS4 still handily took the crown for the month. A lot of MS' problem continues to be perception for them and the idea that they were trying to get away with something when it came to consumer rights.

Pricing is a part of the puzzle, sure, but it's not the entire puzzle by a long shot.

 

[Road]

November 2006

Gears of War: 1 million
Xbox 360 LTD: 3.4 million
Attach-rate: 30%

March 2014

Titanfall - over 1 million
Xbox One LTD: 2.5 million
Attach-rate: 40%+

(GoW had 19 days and Titanfall 27 days of sales, for those wondering.)


On Metal Gear Solid V Ground Zeroes.

278k US + 336k JP = 614k (no downloads)

Konami shipped 2 million copies. Not bomba (demo etc.), but I guess Konami managed to fool some retailers into thinking it was a real MGS game.

 

[pixlexic]

People keep saying this, but for a good part of March, retailers were lopping $50 or more off the price of the console with a copy of Titanfall or Forza, and the PS4 still handily took the crown for the month. A lot of MS' problem continues to be perception for them and the idea that they were trying to get away with something when it came to consumer rights.

Pricing is a part of the puzzle, sure, but it's not the entire puzzle by a long shot.

yeah but those price drops were not mass advertise like a real price drop would be.

if you go to bestbuy right now they wont even show the reduced price until you go to buy it.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemp...=n&seeAll=&browsedCategory=pcmcat303600050004

 

[Crawl]

The Destiny+PS4 co-marketing and possible bundle is going to be a slaughter sales wise comes September. Smart move by sony to team up with activision for possibly the biggest new mass market franchise of this generation.

 

[dallow_bg]

Factor in indies and f2p.

This is where NPD breaks down.
As some have come around to, NPD is best for HW comparisons.

 

[theprodigy]

This isn't directly relevant to NPD, but based on the known sales data for Super Mario 3D World as of the end of 2013, isn't the shipment figure.....rather overshipped?

 

[NoPiece]

Revenue - expenses = profit

Of course shipments to retailers is meaningful. That is a sale for Microsoft. Retailers pay Microsoft for the consoles, not consumers. As long as your revenue is greater than your expenses, you're making a profit. We'll find that out at quarter or years end. But revenue is the first step toward making a profit.

The accounting of revenue can get really complicated. Big sellers like wal mart or target may or may not be paying when they receive shipments, and even if they pay, you might not be able to book the revenue until the sale, or until a period of time passes where the retailer is allowed to return unsold goods to you. You'd need a CPA (not me) to really explain, but "shipped in" can raise a warning flag to investors, though I think it isn't such a big deal here.

 

[bigboss370]

The Destiny+PS4 co-marketing and possible bundle is going to be a slaughter sales wise comes September. Smart move by sony to team up with activision for possibly the biggest new mass market franchise of this generation.

yeah Destiny is going to be a juggernaut. Everyone is excited for that one.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I'm starting to think differently. Even if the Xbone was on price parity with the PS4, the fact that PS4 still offers the superior online subscription with PS+ and plays multi-platforms as well as having some of the best looking exclusives, it's going to persuade fence-sitters to go along with the PS4.

Hmm while I do think there is more to XB1's sales quandary than the pricepoint, I think it may in fact be more the narrative at play going forward. Yes PS+ offers better value but I have serious doubts the average consumer looking to buy a new system is aware of it. The better looking exclusives maybe, ISS had more advertising for it then I realized but I think the power argument may only matter because of the price. I.E. priced the same an average consumer doesn't care that one is more powerful than the other but add an extra $100 on top of it and it paints a different picture.

I truly think XB1 has started to develop an image problem anew from it's image issues last year. PS4 continuing to outsell it as it has can only lead to more snowball effects if not slowed down as more consumers buy into the PS4 bandwagon.

E3 this year should be incredible though.

 

[maquiladora]

Well let's have a look at March. Infamous, Call of Duty. MGS5 GZ, NBA all sold more on PS4 than Xbox One. The general consensus has become that the PS4 is the place with the best looking multiplatform games - similar to the 360 vs. the PS3 - and so most people are buying the system for that reason, aside from the $100 difference.

Nailed it. Better looking multiplats + price.

 

[eddfromtheriver]

The Destiny+PS4 co-marketing and possible bundle is going to be a slaughter sales wise comes September. Smart move by sony to team up with activision for possibly the biggest new mass market franchise of this generation.

I dunno... i don't see Destiny being a game changer either.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Can you break down for me how much it would cost to port XV to the One versus how much revenue 400,000 copies would generate. And then can you give me your projections for what it would take to develop a brand new 3DS game or XII HD and explain why both a XII HD port AND a XV Xbox One port couldn't be done? To be perfectly clear here, my angle here is not that I think an Xbox One port is assured and is definitely the perfect business call. However, I will state plainly that I think your motivation here has less to do with your understanding of the logistics involved with the tradeoffs of Square Enix making these kinds of decisions and more with your affinity for Sony hardware. Now that I've laid that out, I'll conclude by stating that I'm not actually terribly interested in your estimates.

Goddamn Steve

 

[jordan0386]

People keep saying this, but for a good part of March, retailers were lopping $50 or more off the price of the console with a copy of Titanfall or Forza, and the PS4 still handily took the crown for the month. A lot of MS' problem continues to be perception for them and the idea that they were trying to get away with something when it came to consumer rights.

Pricing is a part of the puzzle, sure, but it's not the entire puzzle by a long shot.

Nobody cares about E3 anymore. Nobody outside of forums.

I have yet to see any non internet savvy gamer on my FB talk about 'used games' since E3.

Price is the primary factor for most. Not to mention PS is the stronger brand.

 

[spookyfish]

The Titanfall hype is something that will be talked about for a long time. I've never seen a game so hyped by every corner of the media before. I thought something was up when it came out and then it was pretty much silence.

I don't doubt it's a great game, but you can't force the next big thing on consumers. It's just a natural change.

MS seems to be having a hard time with that one, little issue throughout the whole development/reveal/launch of the One.

Good thing Iwata's test isn't until June.

Holy ... this made me laugh!

 

[Quadraphonic]

November 2006

Gears of War: 1 million
Xbox 360 LTD: 3.4 million
Attach-rate: 30%

March 2014

Titanfall - over 1 million
Xbox One LTD: 2.5 million
Attach-rate: 40%+

(GoW had 19 days and Titanfall 27 days of sales, for those wondering.)


On Metal Gear Solid V Ground Zeroes.

278k US + 336k JP = 614k (no downloads)

Konami shipped 2 million copies. Not bomba (demo etc.), but I guess Konami managed to fool some retailers into thinking it was a real MGS game.

There's no way Titanfall is at a million on the Xbox One. You're including PC sales.

Microsoft/EA/Respawn would be shouting from the high hills how it reached that milestone if it did.

 

[theprodigy]

There's no way Titanfall is at a million on the Xbox One. You're including PC sales.

Microsoft/EA/Respawn would be shouting from the high hills how it reached that milestone if it did.

Are you saying creamsugar is lying with the data?

 

[Quadraphonic]

Are you saying creamsugar is lying with the data?

If that was more recently confirmed, then I apologize. I re-checked the OP. I figured that would have been there if it was.

 

[Maximilian E.]

People keep saying this, but for a good part of March, retailers were lopping $50 or more off the price of the console with a copy of Titanfall or Forza, and the PS4 still handily took the crown for the month. A lot of MS' problem continues to be perception for them and the idea that they were trying to get away with something when it came to consumer rights.

Pricing is a part of the puzzle, sure, but it's not the entire puzzle by a long shot.

True as well.
PS4 is riding the wave of "better but cost less".
The interesting part is that, perhaps the parity would be much bigger if its not but the strong brand that Xbox has established in the NA.

Xbox One will have great games, MS will make sure of that they have cool exclusive.
I Think MS waits for the games to come, and their TV stuff to come out as well. If that stuff becomes popular, then they will not need to lower the price. If that fails as well, then they will lower it.

MS should look into the subscription model as an option.. as an alternative at least.

 

[SwiftDeath]

If that was more recently confirmed, then I apologize. I re-checked the OP. I figured that would have been there if it was.

Only officially released numbers are in OP for obvious reasons

 

[Aquamarine]

There's no way Titanfall is at a million on the Xbox One. You're including PC sales.

Microsoft/EA/Respawn would be shouting from the high hills how it reached that milestone if it did.

Are you saying creamsugar is lying with the data?

I'm not around the data right now, but if I remember correctly, Titanfall sold around 865K without the manufacturer bundles.

So when you include the sales of Titanfall bundles in, it goes above 1 million.

Creamsugar, if you're around, can you confirm this? I'm going off of memory here and I may be remembering it wrong.

 

[Jomjom]

Revenue - expenses = profit

Of course shipments to retailers is meaningful. That is a sale for Microsoft. Retailers pay Microsoft for the consoles, not consumers. As long as your revenue is greater than your expenses, you're making a profit. We'll find that out at quarter or years end. But revenue is the first step toward making a profit.

Yes and every console that's sitting on the shelves isn't making more revenue for MS outside of whatever the retailer paid for it. You can have loads of revenue and have a net loss. Like I said again, the meaningful number is sold to consumers, because the video game business is a razor business. It's why time and again, console manufacturers will sell their consoles at a loss in the hopes of making it up on software sales and service revenues. I think at this point you're just being willfully ignorant, so this will be my last response to you.

 

[Alchemy]

Its the price that keeps Xbox One from Selling better.

I havent read the whole thread, do we have any comparison between PS3 and Xbox One saleswise? The first couple of months?

I don't really buy this. The Xbone has been heavily discounted like crazy, the box I bought came with TitanFall, 13 months of Gold and was only $450. That is easily a better deal then the PS4 (which I've had since launch). Even only factoring in the sale price of PS+ I got, Killzone + 1 year of plus + a PS4 puts it at $490. And the Kinect is certainly worth an amount of money, so the value is even better factoring in the $60 PS4 Camera.

There have been some crazy deals floating out there for the Xbone and it still sold fewer units then the PS4. The base price is certainly a factor, but something is really wrong when even these crazy deals plus the most hyped/marketed game of this generation fail to push your over your competitor in your core market.

I'm starting to believe the dudebro shootbang core doesn't bring as much hardware purchasing power as other demographics, which is the core Xbox One user at this point.

 

[Quadraphonic]

Only officially released numbers are in OP for obvious reasons

I wonder if that's the reason that EA is kept from announcing it hit one million? Because they want to stick with NPD data, too?

It just seems odd they're quiet about that milestone.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I'm not around the data right now, but if I remember correctly, Titanfall sold around 865K without the manufacturer bundles.

So when you include the sales of Titanfall bundles in, it goes above 1 million.

Creamsugar, if you're around, can you confirm this? I'm going off of memory here and I may be remembering it wrong.

Interesting so assuming that every XB1 sold in March was a TF bundle [which is fairly unlikely lol] we have TF at around 1176k. Say maybe 50k is PC retail at most so ~1.1M XB1 copies of TF sold in March

----------

also would make the attach rate for TF on XB1 something like the following without digital

1100/2527 = .4353 -> 43.5% of people who own an XB1 in the US bought TF in March, crazy

That's assuming all 311k March XB1 sales are TF bundle, let's try a 70:30 split

So 218k TF bundle sales -> TF sales are 1083k for March - 50k for PC retail [a guess] = 1033k for XB1 TF sales -> 40.8% which is still crazy considering digital isn't accounted for

 

[Nirolak]

There's no way Titanfall is at a million on the Xbox One. You're including PC sales.

Microsoft/EA/Respawn would be shouting from the high hills how it reached that milestone if it did.

PC games sell really, really badly at retail.

I've seen a lot of historical NPD data, it's really bad.

Like low-mid 5 digit openings are about as good as you get with rare exceptions.

 

[xxracerxx]

November 2006

Gears of War: 1 million
Xbox 360 LTD: 3.4 million
Attach-rate: 30%

March 2014

Titanfall - over 1 million
Xbox One LTD: 2.5 million
Attach-rate: 40%+

Where the hell are you getting 2.5 million sold? I would assume it is closer to 4.

edit: Never mind, you meant US only. Durp.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Don't tease me like this man...I can only imagine how good 12HD would look..

I remember reading somewhere that if X sold well they'd consider making XII but who the hell could predict what Square will do next.

XII confirmed

Spoiler

for mobile!

 

[SwiftDeath]

Where the hell are you getting 2.5 million sold? I would assume it is closer to 4.

US LTD obviously

 

[Nirolak]

Where the hell are you getting 2.5 million sold? I would assume it is closer to 4.

I assume he means in North America.

 

[xxracerxx]

US LTD obviously

I assume he means in North America.

Durp....had a brain fart there. You are right.

 

[Wynnebeck]

I have yet to see any non internet savvy gamer on my FB talk about 'used games' since E3.

Anecdote, but I literally just had a conversation with some female friends whose primary consoles were Wii U and 3DS about the PS4 and Xbone. When I asked what was the biggest difference between them possibly getting a PS4 and Xbone one responded, "Well I would go with the PS4 because doesn't Xbox One have it that you can't play used games? I don't like that."

Now, this obviously is one person out of millions, but public perception is a real factor in why the Xbone is selling the way it is and after seeing how PS4 outsold a Xbone with unofficial price cuts, bundles, etc. price is no longer the main factor IMO.

 

[pixlexic]

so which platform sold the most software in march?

 

[sjagolinzer]

I can't think of any facet of LIVE that is better than PSN right now.

Changing your name is literally all I can think of. But to that other guys point I think he means more ps360 era where ps3 was kinda gimped in online functionality with no party chat ect. PS4 has definately fixed most everything and went above and beyond live functionality and value.

 

[SwiftDeath]

so which platform sold the most software in march?

Xbox One outsold PS4 software wise so I have to assume XB1

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Yes and every console that's sitting on the shelves isn't making more revenue for MS outside of whatever the retailer paid for it. You can have loads of revenue and have a net loss. Like I said again, the meaningful number is sold to consumers, because the video game business is a razor business. It's why time and again, console manufacturers will sell their consoles at a loss in the hopes of making it up on software sales and service revenues. I think at this point you're just being willfully ignorant, so this will be my last response to you.

You have missed the entire point of my posts. What you're saying isn't wrong, necessarily. But you said the shipped to retailers number is meaningless, and that is just plain wrong. It's that simple. I can't really explain it any better to you. You're just not getting it. And that's okay.

 

[Aquamarine]

I'm not around the data right now, but if I remember correctly, Titanfall sold around 865K without the manufacturer bundles.

So when you include the sales of Titanfall bundles in, it goes above 1 million.

Creamsugar, if you're around, can you confirm this? I'm going off of memory here and I may be remembering it wrong.

Interesting so assuming that every XB1 sold in March was a TF bundle [which is fairly unlikely lol] we have TF at around 1176k. Say maybe 50k is PC retail at most so ~1.1M XB1 copies of TF sold in March

----------

also would make the attach rate for TF on XB1 something like the following without digital

1100/2527 = .4353 -> 43.5% of people who own an XB1 in the US bought TF in March, crazy

Yeah...didn't pay much attention to Titanfall when I looked it over...it's really annoying when you try to remember something you just glanced over and it's on the tip of your tongue.

Sorry I can't say more. :-(

 

[LilWayneSuckz]

So much revisionist history going around regarding expectations of XBone Titanfall. Kind of ridiculous.

That tweet is hilarious considering he wrote that very hyperboly-ridden Titanfall preview

 

[SwiftDeath]

Yeah...didn't pay much attention to Titanfall when I looked it over...it's really annoying when you try to remember something you just glanced over and it's on the tip of your tongue.

Sorry I can't say more. :-(

No worries Aqua. You are one of the few that shed some light into the darkness that is modern NPD threads

 

[Biker19]

Yes and every console that's sitting on the shelves isn't making more revenue for MS outside of whatever the retailer paid for it. You can have loads of revenue and have a net loss. Like I said again, the meaningful number is sold to consumers, because the video game business is a razor business. It's why time and again, console manufacturers will sell their consoles at a loss in the hopes of making it up on software sales and service revenues. I think at this point you're just being willfully ignorant, so this will be my last response to you.

Correct me if wrong, but don't companies that provides the consoles to retailers lose money the longer that they have consoles in stock?