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[Yo Gotti]

Resistance 3 was a pretty good game. A well above average shooter.

The series development has been plagued with problems though. First, the games look so damn generic. They look GOOD graphically but the art, characters and settings are entirely unmemorable. Hard to build a marketing campaign around a game with pretty much no inspired set pieces. I think the entire "past-future" setting was dumb from the get go, at least they tried to be original there.

Also, they seem to make some stupid design decisions too that keep people from being able to get invested, like killing off Nathan Hale in R2, why? I was just starting to like the guy as a main character, right when he transforms into something of a believable hero, bam! He's gone.

Then they completely change the formula for every release, how can you build a franchise with a fanbase if every game feels completely different? Have some damn faith in your own design. Resistance 1 started out feeling fairly original. As the series went on it just seemed like they borrowed more and more from other popular shooters, a little half life here, a little Halo there, add a little CoD while we're at it. There were times in R3 that I felt like I was playing missions straight out of Halo AND Half Life.

There's just a lot of poor choices surrounding the development of this series, it's no surprise they don't sell better.

EDIT: Oh yea, Resistance 3? Worst ending in a game, ever.

 

[Stumpokapow]

But he thinks Twisted Pixel is part of his strategy, he'll buy them, get replaced in 3 years and in 8 years some manager is looking at Twisted Pixel thinking: "Why the hell did we buy them again?"

That's highly unlikely. The way accounting works, the acquisition costs are sunk now. A manager 8 years from now won't be considering the cost of having bought the team, but only the cost of operating them, so the question will be "Why the hell are they still open again?", and honestly given how small Twisted Pixel is, I'm not sure it's worth a manager's time to ask the question. You could probably pay them out of the coffee and water fund.

I think the worst case scenario for TP is that some future management decides that studio and personnel consolidation is important, tries to move everyone from TP to Washington or wherever or maybe tries to stick them in with another studio, and while the rank and file largely say yes, the leads say no. I don't think finances are the key risk here, but rather organizational factors.

I'm sorry but Rayman: Origins have "bomb" written all over it. No way will it get the attention and marketing it deserves in November where it's up against CoD, Skyrim, Skyward Sword, Uncharted 3 and Ass Creed:Revelations. Those games will be sucking all of the oxygen out of the room, and games like Origins and Saints Row 3 will be choking for air. Ubisoft should either delay it to January or convert it to a digital download, as it was originally suppose to be.

Unfortunately it's very hard to evaluate whether or not games "suck oxygen" out of the market. About the best case that has been made this generation was for Alan Wake stumbling on the basis that Red Dead Redemption had vacuumed up everything. That case was based on the fact that Alan Wake was highly anticipated, well promoted, and the end product was good enough that word of mouth would not have poisoned the initial first month release (yes, yes, random reader of this post, I am aware that you hate Alan Wake and betrayalton and lol not even 720p, thank you for your insight!).

The thing is that we very rarely get to test the market's capacity for success in November and December because the vast majority of studios bump their games out of those months out of fear and what's left, besides the Blockbusters, are games that the studios themselves don't care about, don't advertise, and "sent to die" as it were. It's hard to think of a high quality, highly promoted, highly acclaimed game that launched in November and December but just got swept under the rug.

I think if Rayman bombs, it won't be because Ubi does a huge blitz and treats the game like a very high profile title but other games end up more important on people's Christmas lists. I think if it bombs, it'll be because Ubisoft has all their focus on AC:R. I think the best case scenario for Rayman is that it behaves like a Sonic game, which is to say a non-disasterous but non-spectacular opening, and decent growth totalling a pretty respectable and even a little surprising LTD in the end.

 

[zlatko]

180k for Resistance 3? Sounds about right. Game was meh through and through.

2 million for Gears 3? Sounds about right. Best online experience for console shooters when you are on dedicated servers PLUS it has the most content of any shooter this entire console generation for 60 bucks. Fucking well deserved.

...datmadden

 

[yurinka]

First party Sony titles never really set the sales charts alight but they obviously are doing alright. Sony would not be buying the likes of MM and Sucker Punch if they were not happy with sales, not just that but also expanding the likes of GG and PD.

Have to bring up WW sales (I sense a tear rolling down jadedgamers cheek) simply because without WW sales things just don't make sense. For example GT5 shipped just 1.5 million in NA, with a budget of $60 million and the huge adverting push that would seem like a bomb of epic proportions and would expect PD cuts. Then you look at WW sales and the 3.8 million shipped in EU, Sony is doing much better in EU compared to NA so chances are their games are selling better in EU than NA as well. So looking at NPD threads aren't telling the whole story, especially with MS vs Sony first party sales when the likes of Halo and Gears do considerably better in NA compared to EU, while for Sony first party games it seems a more even split.

Resistance 3 was fucked the day the game was announced, as was Ratchet All 4 One. Move the fuck on Insomniac, hope they just go all out multiplat and not bother with Sony anymore.



The fuck? Love it when facts are pulled right out the arse. :/

Playstation main markets are Europe and Japan. Xbox main market is US.

To judge Sony game sales only looking at US is like to judge MS games only looking at their Japanese sales. Just dumb.

Regarding Insomniac, I only liked from them the 2 first PS3 Ratchet games. In my opinion, think they have potential but also have huge failures in several points, so at the end they don't reach the quality to be a first (second) party studio. I think it's better for both Sony and Inmsomniac to end their relationship.

 

[Ridley327]

Playstation main markets are Europe and Japan. Xbox main market is US.

To judge Sony game sales only looking at US is like to judge MS games only looking at their Japanese sales. Just dumb.

Given the apparent performance of Resistance 3 in Europe, it could be said that there is no market for that game.

 

[Phonomezer]

Playstation main markets are Europe and Japan. Xbox main market is US.

To judge Sony game sales only looking at US is like to judge MS games only looking at their Japanese sales. Just dumb.

But there are what, around 16 or 17 million PS3's in the US?

Not even 2 million 360's in Japan.

 

[EagleEyes]

It looks like Uncharted 3 is gonna be Sonys only bonafide major hit this year. Its strange that we haven't any PR about overall sales of any of their games this year. I get a feeling that every sequel they've released this year has underperformed compared to their predecessors.

 

[C4Lukins]

My monthly analysis.

360 stays strong.
PS3 has a better then expected month with a small price drop.
Wii continues to fall off.

Hard to say with 3DS considering how the original DS performed out of the gate.

Gears 2 is a megahit.

Resistance 3 is a bomb, if we compare it to 360 titles like Crackdown 2. AAA budget first party game, sells under 200K. If it was Child of Eden then maybe we could champion it, but just no.

 

[Serenity]

Doesn't GT sell more than either halo or gears?

 

[yurinka]

Given the apparent performance of Resistance 3 in Europe, it could be said that there is no market for that game.

I would be well deserved.

But I think it will be bundled as hell with consoles, 3DTVs, Move and whatever they can bundle it. With this stuff and Platinum sales it will end selling more than 2 million worldwide as happened with R2. Remember the game that don't appear in the top10 also sell copies, and unlike R2, a huge % of R1 sales were made in Europe.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Playstation main markets are Europe and Japan. Xbox main market is US.

To judge Sony game sales only looking at US is like to judge MS games only looking at their Japanese sales. Just dumb.

If Japan is such a huge market for them then why has GT5 still not outsold prolouge over there. And it is perfectly fair to judge Sony game sales in the US in an NPD thread just like you judge MS games for Japan in mediacrate threads.

You can't point to EU sales as an explanation to why games aren't moving in the US.

 

[Nirolak]

Doesn't GT sell more than either halo or gears?

Once upon a time yes, but not anymore.

Well, technically we haven't seen if Gears 3 will outsell GT5, but it is starting very strong.

 

[Petrichor]

Doesn't GT sell more than either halo or gears?

Not anymore.

 

[Ninja_Hawk]

It looks like Uncharted 3 is gonna be Sonys only bonafide major hit this year. Its strange that we haven't any PR about overall sales of any of their games this year. I get a feeling that every sequel they've released this year has underperformed compared to their predecessors.

You probably will when they get to certain milestones LBP2, Infamous 2, and KillZone 3 are all at least on par (maybe KillZone is down a bit, but it's at least not by much if it is, can't remember exactly) last we knew, all of their predecessors went on to be pretty decent to big sellers given the time.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Sony doesn't invest in 100 million dollar marketing campaigns.

Does Nintendo spend 100 million to market their exclusives?

 

[Saiyar]

Doesn't GT sell more than either halo or gears?

Not in the USA. If you are asking about worldwide sales then yes.

 

[Phonomezer]

Not in the USA. If you are asking about worldwide sales then yes.

GT5 hasn't outsold Halo WW.

 

[[Nintex]]

Does Nintendo spend 100 million to market their exclusives?

Nintendo spends a lot of money marketing Zelda, Mario and Pokemon. Add in the advertising campaigns after launch, in store advertising and press events and I think that in some cases they did spend up to 100 million in marketing worldwide.

 

[yurinka]

If Japan is such a huge market for them then why has GT5 still not outsold prolouge over there. And it is perfectly fair to judge Sony game sales in the US in an NPD thread just like you judge MS games for Japan in mediacrate threads.

You can't point to EU sales as an explanation to why games aren't moving in the US.

I only say that a game can't be judged by its sales only in its worst market when comparing it to other companies. US is where Sony has the worst market share out of the 3 main markets, so it make sense that their games sell bad there compared to MS or Nintendo, who have way better numbers in this market.

Prologe was a budget game and heavily bundled game. I think GT5 still don't reached its lifetime limit, I think it still will sell games (Platinum, bundled, etc). BTW Japan is the worst of the 3 main markets for Gran Turismo. http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html

In your example, instead of comparing GT5P vs GT4 Japanese sales, it would be to compare GT5 vs Forza 4 Japanese sales.

 

[Yo Gotti]

The PS3 US market share argument is bullshit.

They've sold damn near 20 million consoles in the US. The US market is very active. Sony just sucks at moving software this gen, period.

EDIT: Is there any word on the pre-orders for Uncharted 3? It would be sad if it didn't at least sell a million its first month.

 

[yurinka]

Doesn't GT sell more than either halo or gears?

I would say worldwide yes, but in USA no. Not updated numbers, but this is the best just found now after a quick search.

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(series)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gears_of_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gears_of_War_2

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I only say that a game can't be judged by its sales only in its worst market when comparing it to other companies. US is where Sony has the worst market share out of the 3 main markets, so it make sense that their games sell bad there compared to others.

So your reasoning on why games sell poorly in the US is only because of userbase numbers? I'm judging US sales in a thread about US sales. That is great that these games move in other areas in the world but mentioning that is just a distracion to the main question of why they aren't moving here in the US.

So far excuses have been lack of marketing and low userbase which I don't buy the userbase excuse since there are tons of examples of average games putting up huge numbers on smaller userbases.

 

[KingDizzi]

Doesn't GT sell more than either halo or gears?

In NA Gears and Halo take a collective piss on GT, in EU and Japan GT5 is the one leaking all over Halo and Gears like a porn star that's had too much anal sex. GT5 was at 6.37 million shipped after 2 months of release, it has got to be well over 7 million by now. Looking at the shipped numbers it was 600k in Japan which it has passed, 1.58 million in NA which I have no clue about (did 800k in the first two months so probably got a second shipment) and a big 3.97 million in EU which it has probably passed.

7 million low balling I'd say, if it has not passed that figure after a year then lulz, you done goofed up PD. I doubt it though and were I to guess would say it's still well above Gears and on Halo levels.

It's basically a case where:

Mega franchises: COD and Nintendo first party.

Big franchises: Halo, GT and FIFA, BF to a larger extent

Big: Gears and to a lesser extent Uncharted

 

[Curufinwe]

Not anymore.

GT5 sold 6.37 million in a month and a week. We need to wait for their end of Dec 2011 stats to really know how it's done.

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html

 

[yurinka]

So your reasoning on why games sell poorly in the US is only because of userbase numbers? I'm judging US sales in a thread about US sales. That is great that these games move in other areas in the world but mentioning that is just a distracion to the main question of why they aren't moving here in the US.

So far excuses have been lack of marketing and low userbase which I don't buy the userbase excuse since there are tons of examples of average games putting up huge numbers on smaller userbases.

My reasoning is that series which previous chapters sold more than 2 or 3 millions worldwide can't be judged with weak 1st month sales in a market where they typically perform weak.

Here in Europe (at least in Spain), they push the R3 marketing hard: tv ads, bus stations, metro stations, game conventions, magazine ads, newspapers ads. Console bundles, Move bundles, 3dtv bundles. I understand that if they make it is because the previous ones performed well here (and also were well marketed).

And if as others said in US they don't market it it's because they know it doesn't make sense because there most FPS fans prefer a 360 to play Halo and Gears and they won't buy (like me) Resistance 3. US is the most FPS focused market and it's more focused in 360 because it has a better FPS offer thanks to Gears and Halo, so they ignore FPS in other consoles because there typically people prefer to play FPS in the 360.

Here in Europe FPS aren't that important, here GT, football (FIFA + PES) and casual/social stuff (you know waggle/Singstar/Eyetoy/music games, etc) are more important, in addition to the typical stuff that also works in the rest of the world (GTA, CoD, FF). If here people who is not a experienced gamer (who knows Resistance games aren't great shooters) and already has a PS3, maybe the marketing/bundled works with them.

In addition to this, we also have to consider that the PS3 only FPS fans are waiting for CoD3 and MW3, and the ones with both consoles just had Gears 3, so it's normal to ignore R3.

 

[LQX]

Not sure if some are lying to themselves are just don't want to admit that for all the hype most of Sony exclusives are just not all that great or appealing to the mass and would mostly under perform weather multiplatform or exclusive to another console.

Also their marketing sucks in the US. People like to label the 360 the "dudebro" console but if anything the PS3 is the definition of one as Sony sells the system as one. Just who exactly is Kevin Butler suppose to appeal to? He still has not caught on and most of their commercials time is wasted with him talking for the majority of them whereas most if not all 360 commercials outside of the Kinect ones shows gameplay then the 360 logo and console.

 

[kswiston]

GT5 hasn't outsold Halo WW.

What is Halo Reach sitting at? GT5 sales will pick up again after it is made a greatest hits title. The game probably won't catch Halo 3 at 10M, but it could pass Reach.

Also, weren't both of the first Gears games at around 5M LTD WW? Even if this one does a little better (say 6-7M LTD), I doubt it will surpass GT5. Gears 3 is going to be front loaded. It's the third game in the series which always leads to up front demand, Battlefield 3 is out at the end of the month, and Modern Warfare 3 is out in November. Halo Reach had a crazy drop in October, despite the 3M+ opening. I would not be surprised to see Gears 3 at 300-400k next month.

 

[Uno Venova]

These threads always end up the same, that's why NPD will be much better next month, they will track Euro sales and give people a better view of what's going on.

 

[shintoki]

In NA Gears and Halo take a collective piss on GT, in EU and Japan GT5 is the one leaking all over Halo and Gears like a porn star that's had too much anal sex. GT5 was at 6.37 million shipped after 2 months of release, it has got to be well over 7 million by now. Looking at the shipped numbers it was 600k in Japan which it has passed, 1.58 million in NA which I have no clue about (did 800k in the first two months so probably got a second shipment) and a big 3.97 million in EU which it has probably passed.

We actually have sales figures for GT5.


2007k in Europe
400k in Nov
560k in Dec
For Japan, 563k

About 3.5mil out of 6.37 mil sold(Same time frame as the Shipped numbers), for 2010. Franchise looks to be more of a relic of previous gens, rather than a major pusher now. Halo is a bigger franchise. In its two months vs Sept alone for Halo Reach in just US. 3.5ish vs 3.3million. Gears hit 3million Worldwide.

 

[Sydle]

These threads always end up the same, that's why NPD will be much better next month, they will track Euro sales and give people a better view of what's going on.

There's a crystal-clear understanding of what's going on in North America, PS3 is in a distant third place, and that's not going to change. It's well understood that there's a different story going on in other regions, but it's not like those make the NA circumstances better.

 

[yurinka]

What is Halo Reach sitting at? GT5 sales will pick up again after it is made a greatest hits title. The game probably won't catch Halo 3 at 10M, but it could pass Reach.

Also, weren't both of the first Gears games at around 5M LTD WW? Even if this one does a little better (say 6-7M LTD), I doubt it will surpass GT5. Gears 3 is going to be front loaded. It's the third game in the series which always leads to up front demand, Battlefield 3 is out at the end of the month, and Modern Warfare 3 is out in November. Halo Reach had a crazy drop in October, despite the 3M+ opening. I would not be surprised to see Gears 3 at 300-400k next month.

Remember that GT5 sold 6,37M, but its prologue (often called "demo" or "unfinished game") sold 5,2M.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Seriously it's like I'm reading the exact same arguments, only there are different numbers at the end of the game titles.

 

[Loudninja]

These threads always end up the same, that's why NPD will be much better next month, they will track Euro sales and give people a better view of what's going on.

Oh yeah.How is this going to work again? its it all of Europe or just UK?

 

[Uno Venova]

There's a crystal-clear understanding of what's going on in North America, PS3 is in a distant third place, and that's not going to change. It's well understood that there's a different story going on in other regions, but that's not what NPD threads have been about.

They don't start out about other regions but that's how it always turns out at the end. No one knows Europe numbers and want info from another big region, but next month the info will actually be available.

 

[KingDizzi]

We actually have sales figures for GT5.


2007k in Europe
400k in Nov
560k in Dec
For Japan, 563k

About 3.5mil out of 6.37 mil sold(Same time frame as the Shipped numbers), for 2010. Franchise looks to be more of a relic of previous gens, rather than a major pusher now. Halo is a bigger franchise. In its two months vs Sept alone for Halo Reach in just US. 3.5ish vs 3.3million. Gears hit 3million Worldwide.

Heh I posted in the EU thread, got some shitty memory. My bad then, its passed the Japan shipment, NA is probably done but the game bombed in EU relative to what Sony expected. So with that said no then, GT is actually smaller than Halo and even Gears now. :O

Edit - GT5 was doing well in 2011 too looking at the Pal threads, it's probably past that shipment by now. The biggie is that the game did not drop in price until the platinum release, that does not happen whan a game bombs so yeah, jumped the game a bit. :/

 

[Barack Lesnar]

We actually have sales figures for GT5.


2007k in Europe
400k in Nov
560k in Dec
For Japan, 563k

About 3.5mil out of 6.37 mil sold(Same time frame as the Shipped numbers), for 2010. Franchise looks to be more of a relic of previous gens, rather than a major pusher now. Halo is a bigger franchise. In its two months vs Sept alone for Halo Reach in just US. 3.5ish vs 3.3million. Gears hit 3million Worldwide.

Wow, that's crazy. How the mighty have fallen...

 

[Road]

These threads always end up the same, that's why NPD will be much better next month, they will track Euro sales and give people a better view of what's going on.

No?

NPD is gonna track digital sales on other markets, and their method is basically polling users about their digital buying habits instead of a more accurate point-of-sale tracking. Also, we'll never see any numbers for any game from that. Expect, at best, the same thing we're getting for the US: basically a dollar figure for sales in a given quarter (which don't even get published for free actually -- all we get is a number for used sales, rental and digital all lumped together).

 

[Rolf NB]

Given the apparent performance of Resistance 3 in Europe, it could be said that there is no market for that game.

Making shit up much? It's debuted at #2 in the UK all formats chart. Placed #2 => #3 => #8 => #11 => #15. Will surely show up again for week 41.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

180k! Eesh that is pretty bad. Especially when you look at the coming months and holiday there is really no room for Resistance to obtain anymore mindshare. What did R2 sell?

 

[Loudninja]

No?

NPD is gonna track digital sales on other markets, and their method is basically polling users about their digital buying habits instead of a more accurate point-of-sale tracking. Also, we'll never see any numbers for any game from that. Expect, at best, the same thing we're getting for the US: basically a dollar figure for sales in a given quarter (which don't even get published for free actually -- all we get is a number for used sales, rental and digital all lumped together).

Oh ok not interested than.

 

[Uno Venova]

No?

NPD is gonna track digital sales on other markets, and their method is basically polling users about their digital buying habits instead of a more accurate point-of-sale tracking. Also, we'll never see any numbers for any game from that. Expect, at best, the same thing we're getting for the US: basically a dollar figure for sales in a given quarter (which don't even get published for free actually -- all we get is a number for used sales, rental and digital all lumped together).

ew. This sucks I was under the wrong impression. NPD threads will be be the same forever then.

 

[Radec]

Remember that GT5 sold 6,37M, but its prologue (often called "demo" or "unfinished game") sold 5,2M.

yep.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

yep.

nope.

not according to above

 

[kswiston]

nope.

not according to above

Those figures are for the end of 2010. GT5 came out Nov 24th. So that represents 5 weeks of sales. The GT games have always had good legs. GT5 will still be the lowest selling game in the series, but it's not like sales numbers would have remained static for this entire year.

 

[Uno Venova]

Yeah I doubt GT5 will ship 7 million and only sell around half that amount.

 

[Ridley327]

Making shit up much? It's debuted at #2 in the UK all formats chart. Placed #2 => #3 => #8 => #11 => #15. Will surely show up again for week 41.

Just going by what other people have said about how its performed in Europe.

 

[CadetMahoney]

180k for Resistance 3? Sounds about right. Game was meh through and through.

2 million for Gears 3? Sounds about right.

heh. Can't disagree though, Gears 3 is great.

I think Uncharted 3 will be in the 7 spot. I don't think it will unchart in the top 10 like some ppl suggest.

 

[[Nintex]]

Just going by what other people have said about how its performed in Europe.

And they're right it's not doing that well just take these calculations,

It started sinking in the UK after debuting with about 35k
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=30878007&postcount=5

and moving to 20k.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31095997&postcount=39

Looking at that place it seems that games ranked ~10 usually sell about 7/8k. It's nothing to write home about.

 

[FieryBalrog]

If R3 was at 180K and Space Marine is a couple of spots below it, what is that, like 120K in sales?

That doesn't seem promising. Hopefully it sold well in Europe?

 

[[Nintex]]

If R3 was at 180K and Space Marine is a couple of spots below it, what is that, like 120K in sales?

That doesn't seem promising. Hopefully it sold well in Europe?

They pretty much decided not to do a sequel so it's safe to say it bombed.