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[Toxi]

Pokemon ORAS Masters final is really showing off my issues with this format. Genies, heatran, cresselia, aegislash, khan just totally running rampant. Wish gamefreak would tune down some of these or ban them for VGC.

The top 8 is hilariously centralized. 8 Landorus-T, 6 Mega Mom, 6 Amoongus, 6 Heatran, 5 Cressalia, 4 Thundurus. And the winning team used those six Pokemon.

Don't expect bans, that's not VGC's style. I'm definitely expecting some changes though with the next game, either nerfing those in some way (Like a Parental Bond nerf) or making new Pokemon specifically to counter those common options.

 

[backlot]

Didn't have alcohol here (as far as I'm aware).
They had Symphonic Evolutions shirts and posters (2 kinds), and a large Pikachu X/Y series plush from Tomy.
Posters were $20 each, shirts $30, Pikachu $40.
I can't remember what exactly the posters were, but I think they were Unova themed (they said there were Black and White versions).
The shirt is the symphony logo on black.
They overcharged for the Pikachu plush, I thought it was an exclusive.

They totally sold alcohol there. I saw people walking back to their seats with beers during intermission.

The top 8 is hilariously centralized. 8 Landorus-T, 6 Mega Mom, 6 Amoongus, 6 Heatran, 5 Cressalia, 4 Thundurus. And the winning team used those six Pokemon.

Don't expect bans, that's not VGC's style. I'm definitely expecting some changes though with the next game, either nerfing those in some way (Like a Parental Bond nerf) or making new Pokemon specifically to counter those common options.

I can't imagine them not trying to nerf Parental Bond in some way. I could see some Rock Slide and Swagger nerfs too.

 

[Not75Drops]

Game Freak/TPC letting Corocoro have the big scoop again like before XY lol. We're getting info in 2 and a half weeks so I don't know why people are going insane.

 

[Exterminieren]

Game Freak/TPC letting Corocoro have the big scoop again like before XY lol. We're getting info in 2 and a half weeks so I don't know why people are going insane.

Coro Coro hasn't revealed a game since Platinum, and I'd be vaguely surprised if they started now.

I wouldn't be shocked if there was a planned reveal for a Nintendo Direct this month that got cancelled for obvious reasons.

 

[Not75Drops]

Coro Coro hasn't revealed a game since Platinum, and I'd be vaguely surprised if they started now.

I wouldn't be shocked if there was a planned reveal for a Nintendo Direct this month that got cancelled for obvious reasons.

Ok I remember BW2 from Pokemon Sunday/Smash/whatever but I thought Black/White was a Corocoro reveal. It's confirmed to get info regarding Zygarde and the blob next month anyway.

 

[NormalFish]

The top 8 is hilariously centralized. 8 Landorus-T, 6 Mega Mom, 6 Amoongus, 6 Heatran, 5 Cressalia, 4 Thundurus. And the winning team used those six Pokemon.

Don't expect bans, that's not VGC's style. I'm definitely expecting some changes though with the next game, either nerfing those in some way (Like a Parental Bond nerf) or making new Pokemon specifically to counter those common options.

yeah it's a bit of a joke.

The XY format was actually pretty good. Khan, Mawile, and Aegislash were all pretty dominant, but due to the huge restrictions there was a lot of viability to be found in niches. This meta is so clearly tiered because anything that doesn't have a way to cope with the top pokemon (Landorus T, Heatran, Etc.) is a wasted slot. Not so bad when you only had to build to deal with mawile and khan.

I can't imagine them not trying to nerf Parental Bond in some way. I could see some Rock Slide and Swagger nerfs too.

I'm more interested in nerfs to the genies, cresselia, and some mega BSTs. I don't feel swagger is terribly OP, and parental bond itself is really cool so I'd rather it's not nerfed too much.

 

[Exterminieren]

Ok I remember BW2 from Pokemon Sunday/Smash/whatever but I thought Black/White was a Corocoro reveal. It's confirmed to get info regarding Zygarde and the blob next month anyway.

Remember, we learned about Origin Giratina in February 2008, but didn't hear about Platinum until May 2008. I wouldn't take us learning about Mega Zygarde and the Blob as confirmation that we're going to hear about the game featuring them just yet.

 

[Sandfox]

yeah it's a bit of a joke.

The XY format was actually pretty good. Khan, Mawile, and Aegislash were all pretty dominant, but due to the huge restrictions there was a lot of viability to be found in niches. This meta is so clearly tiered because anything that doesn't have a way to cope with the top pokemon (Landorus T, Heatran, Etc.) is a wasted slot. Not so bad when you only had to build to deal with mawile and khan.

I'm more interested in nerfs to the genies, cresselia, and some mega BSTs. I don't feel swagger is terribly OP, and parental bond itself is really cool so I'd rather it's not nerfed too much.

I wouldn't really call the XY format good because there were very few options against certain threats.

I think its more likely that they nerf moves and abilities than stats.

 

[Busaiku]

They totally sold alcohol there. I saw people walking back to their seats with beers during intermission.

Well, I did say as far as I'm aware!
No one around me had any drinks.

 

[NormalFish]

I wouldn't really call the XY format good because there were very few options against certain threats.

I think its more likely that they nerf moves and abilities than stats.

eh, I never really felt starved for options, but I also didn't play at the top level.

I agree it's more likely they nerf moves and abilities, but that doesn't mean it's the best way to go about nerfing those specific mons

 

[backlot]

I'm more interested in nerfs to the genies, cresselia, and some mega BSTs. I don't feel swagger is terribly OP, and parental bond itself is really cool so I'd rather it's not nerfed too much.

Nerfing Swagger and Rockslide is nerfing the genies. There are still a lot of other good reasons to use the genies but those two moves along with Thunder Wave are huge factors.

 

[NormalFish]

Nerfing Swagger and Rockslide is nerfing the genies. There are still a lot of other good reasons to use the genies but those two moves along with Thunder Wave are huge factors.

Yeah, for sure, but nerfing those moves doesn't only nerf the genies is my concern. I'd rather not see some mid tier mons drop in to irrelevance due to nerfs directed at the genies.

 

[backlot]

Yeah, for sure, but nerfing those moves doesn't only nerf the genies is my concern. I'd rather not see some mid tier mons drop in to irrelevance due to nerfs directed at the genies.

Do you have any mid tier Pokemon in mind? There really aren't any Pokemon that base their entire play style around those moves as much as the genies.

 

[StoneFox]

Rock Slide doesn't need much more nerfing, it already has a pretty low accuracy and doesn't guarantee a flinch. What needs to be looked at is Parental Bond and Landorus in general.

Perhaps make it so the second hit of Parental Bond cannot gain stats (like with Power-Up Punch) or only does 25% damage instead of half.

I'm not sure what can be done about Landorus other than the rules that they had with X/Y that only native pokemon were allowed.

 

[Toxi]

Nerfing Swagger and Rockslide is nerfing the genies. There are still a lot of other good reasons to use the genies but those two moves along with Thunder Wave are huge factors.

Rock Slide's used with tons of Pokemon and is just one of the many factors that make Landorus-T so good. Intimidate, great defensive typing, very high stats, STAB Earthquake and Earthquake immunity, and U-Turn (Why the fuck can it learn U-Turn anyway?) are all factors making it so popular.

Do you have any mid tier Pokemon in mind? There really aren't any Pokemon that base their entire play style around those moves as much as the genies.

Rock Slide's a very common attack. Tyranitar for example relies on Rock Slide as its primary STAB.

The problem with Landorus-T isn't Rock Slide, the problem with Landorus-T is Landorus-T.

 

[NormalFish]

Do you have any mid tier Pokemon in mind? There really aren't any Pokemon that base their entire play style around those moves as much as the genies.

Not really, to be honest with you. I haven't been playing enough to have these things in my forethoughts, but rock slide is pretty core to a number of pokemon, and just about any rock pokemon in doubles really needs a strong stab like that.

Perhaps Aerodactyl is a good example.

Rock Slide doesn't need much more nerfing, it already has a pretty low accuracy and doesn't guarantee a flinch. What needs to be looked at is Parental Bond and Landorus in general.

Rock Slide's used with tons of Pokemon and is just one of the many factors that make Landorus-T so good. Intimidate, great defensive typing, very high stats, STAB Earthquake and Earthquake immunity, and U-Turn (Why the fuck can it learn U-Turn anyway?) are all factors making it so popular.

Rock Slide's a very common attack. Tyranitar for example relies on Rock Slide as its primary STAB.

The problem with Landorus-T isn't Rock Slide, the problem with Landorus-T is Landorus-T.

Yeah, pretty much what these guys said. Landorus-T is just broken. You know he's broken because there's no single thing that you can point to and say "oh, this is the issue". If something was as dominant as Landorus-T in a different competitive game (lets say DotA, an MMO, or even something like Monster Hunter), the likely reaction would be some pretty substantial nerfs to that thing in particular, and perhaps small nerfs to things that it utilizes which are not specific to that thing (in this case, ability or moves). Because there are so many pokemon now, and it's so hard to nerf moves without gimping something else, I think a small ability and larger BST nerf is what's needed.

 

[Toxi]

Thinking right now, Mamoswine seems like a decent Poke. Icicle Crash+Earthquake=Lots of dead genies and Heatrans.

Cressalia+Mamoswine Trick Room opener?

 

[Sandfox]

Not really, to be honest with you. I haven't been playing enough to have these things in my forethoughts, but rock slide is pretty core to a number of pokemon, and just about any rock pokemon in doubles really needs a strong stab like that.

Perhaps Aerodactyl is a good example.


Yeah, pretty much what these guys said. Landorus-T is just broken. You know he's broken because there's no single thing that you can point to and say "oh, this is the issue". If something was as dominant as Landorus-T in a different competitive game (lets say DotA, an MMO, or even something like Monster Hunter), the likely reaction would be some pretty substantial nerfs to that thing in particular, and perhaps small nerfs to things that it utilizes which are not specific to that thing (in this case, ability or moves). Because there are so many pokemon now, and it's so hard to nerf moves without gimping something else, I think a small ability and larger BST nerf is what's needed.

I wouldn't really it broken since it has quite a few clear weakness just like every other Pokemon on top. Lando-T is certainly the most popular Pokemon though.

 

[backlot]

When I say nerf Rock Slide I just mean make it not flinch as much. You could even make its base power a bit stronger in exchange. I'm not saying Rock Slide needs to be nerfed just because Landorus is really common. Rock Slide was really common last year on Garchomp and Aerodactyl. They got overshadowed by Lando and Terrakion this year due to the current state of the meta, but I think a spread move with a 30% flinch chance and a type that no Pokemon are immune to is pretty OP.

 

[Dark Orchid]

Maybe a change to 89/125/90/95/90/111 base stats (turns into a tiger with cloud feet, how is it slower?) and an ability change to Cloud Nine or Unnerve? Just a quick overlook, might not even be a good idea.

I'd definitely get rid of Prankster on Thundurus and Tornadus, though. Doing anything to Prankster itself nerfs so many other Pokemon but giving something like Thundurus a priority Thunder Wave has always been trouble.

 

[PBalfredo]

I always felt that giving Prankster to the genies was particularly egregious because of the gulf in BST between them and the rest of the Prankster users in the game.

 

[NormalFish]

I wouldn't really it broken since it has quite a few clear weakness just like every other Pokemon on top. Lando-T is certainly the most popular Pokemon though.

I don't think those weaknesses matter that much, is the issue. I mean, scizor in gen 4 singles was really really strong (to the degree that every single team had to have a dedicated scizor counter, typically heatran) and I don't think scizor was ever as ridiculous as Landorus-T. Where Scizor's weaknesses could reliably be abused, Landorus' just don't seem to be significant enough for the current playing field. I mean, when I was designing my team for ORAS I could deal with Landorus, but the fact that a bit of RNG (1 miss, a flinch, bad damage range) could completely decimate all of my hopes to possibly deal with Landorus really doesn't seem right. I'd say the finals really put this on display.

But that's the end of what I'll say on the topic.

On a lighter note pertaining to the tournament: It's always cool seeing the pocket strats people come up with. That geomancy smeargle was pretty cool, and seeing a Raichu at Worlds warms my heart. I want Raichu to be a bit better so bad. He's fun to use.

 

[Busaiku]

Genies and Prankster don't make sense anyways.
Pixies and sprites, yes, but not genies.

 

[Sandfox]

I don't think those weaknesses matter that much, is the issue. I mean, scizor in gen 4 singles was really really strong (to the degree that every single team had to have a dedicated scizor counter, typically heatran) and I don't think scizor was ever as ridiculous as Landorus-T. Where Scizor's weaknesses could reliably be abused, Landorus' just don't seem to be significant enough for the current playing field. I mean, when I was designing my team for ORAS I could deal with Landorus, but the fact that a bit of RNG (1 miss, a flinch, bad damage range) could completely decimate all of my hopes to possibly deal with Landorus really doesn't seem right. I'd say the finals really put this on display.

But that's the end of what I'll say on the topic.

On a lighter note pertaining to the tournament: It's always cool seeing the pocket strats people come up with. That geomancy smeargle was pretty cool, and seeing a Raichu at Worlds warms my heart. I want Raichu to be a bit better so bad. He's fun to use.

If anything I would say that finals was more of a showcase of how cheap Prankster can be under Thundurus than anything Landorus did since that's where a lot of the RNG was coming from(other than the misses of course). Landorus is weak to some pretty common things.

 

[backlot]

If anything I would say that finals was more of a showcase of how cheap Prankster can be under Thundurus than anything Landorus did since that's where a lot of the RNG was coming from(other than the misses of course). Landorus is weak to some pretty common things.

For sure. Kangaskhan and Thundurus are the OP Pokemon in the metagame. Landorus is common because he's one of the few Pokemon that checks both of them as well as other common Pokemon like Heatran and wall all the fighting moves aimed at Kang. I don't think Lando is as OP as he is just really common.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Genies and Prankster don't make sense anyways.
Pixies and sprites, yes, but not genies.

You should watch Wishmaster and read up on Jinns.
Or just read up on Jinns.
I just like the movie Wishmaster...

 

[Dark Orchid]

Also on the whole editing Pokemon in the future topic, I really hope they fix Mega Alakazam's base special defense. Drives me crazy that it's the only mega with a 90 stat increase because someone wasn't communicating that they were raising regular Alakazam's special defense by 10.

 

[Toxi]

Fixing Parental Bond definitely goes a long way to balancing everything.

Genies and Prankster don't make sense anyways.
Pixies and sprites, yes, but not genies.

The in-game story role of Tornadus and Thundurus is that they're nasty ruffians who wreak havoc wherever they go. Landorus is the one who keeps them in check, hence why it lacks Prankster.

 

[JoeM86]

The top 8 is hilariously centralized. 8 Landorus-T, 6 Mega Mom, 6 Amoongus, 6 Heatran, 5 Cressalia, 4 Thundurus. And the winning team used those six Pokemon.

Don't expect bans, that's not VGC's style. I'm definitely expecting some changes though with the next game, either nerfing those in some way (Like a Parental Bond nerf) or making new Pokemon specifically to counter those common options.

There won't be changes in the next game. In the next generation, absolutely. I expect Parental Bond to drop to 33%, if not 25%.

Really hoping next year's format is GS Cup

 

[PreyingShark]

I've thought about it and uh... I honestly don't think James Stumbo was actually going to go shoot people for two main reasons:

1) He had 534 CP, meaning he was clearly a pretty hardcore Pokemon TCG player. Why the fuck would he go kill people at Worlds when he clearly worked hard to get to Worlds and was probably even trying for a Day 2 invite?

2) Here are the bullets he had in his car:

Why would have pack so many bullets? Well, if he was pretty into competitive shooting then it makes sense. He didn't expect there to be any trouble with the law, he made that FB post as an in-joke with his friends who knew he was into competitive shooting and joked about it with him all the time, and he expected to find a range in Boston. He also didn't want to actually buy bullets in Boston so he bought his own. And he lied about there not being weapons in his car because he knew what it would look like.

While I don't know what actually went down, that honestly makes a lot more sense to me than somebody who's really into Pokemon going to Worlds and trying to kill a lot of people with fucking target loads.

 

[PreyingShark]

Found the ammo Kevin had:

Description:

PMC Bronze ammunition is manufactured using modern processes and components that yield a quality product ideal for target practice and recreational shooting. PMC loads offer consistent performance at a very competitive price. PMC ammo features fully reloadable, newly manufactured brass cases, non corrosive primers and full metal jacket bullets. Box of 20 rounds.

...Well damn there we have it folks, they clearly intended to massacre people at Worlds, no doubt about it.

Seriously, you can kill people with these bullets but like, this isn't really what you would use for a massacre...

 

[Exterminieren]

There's a thread for the incident in Boston. I'm not particularly comfortable with discussing the potential shooting of innocents in here, frankly.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I'm more shocked that apparently some facebook commenters think Pokemon is obsolete and are surprised there is an event for it.

 

[JoeM86]

I'm more shocked that apparently some facebook commenters think Pokemon is obsolete and are surprised there is an event for it.

I'm not. Some just think it was a 90s fad

 

[Not75Drops]

If no new game is out before Worlds next year (which is very possible), we'll still be on the ORAS metagame so expect to see the same things. They could go the GS Cup route like what was mentioned earlier but then you just get Mega Rayquaza on every team unless they ban Dragon Ascent.

 

[JoeM86]

Was discussing this in a Facebook group and one thing brought up by Jamie Miller (he competed at Worlds this year) was the idea of next year's being based somewhat on what comes on Special Battle sometimes.

Basically, standard current VGC rules: National Pokédex, no cover legends/Mythical Pokémon, Double Battle, but with a twist.

This Special Battle ruleset is one that comes along every 6 months or so and what it does is take the 12 most used Pokémon in the Double Battle rankings for the seasons and remove them. This ruleset is currently running in Special Battle on Battle Spot (until September 14th) and bans the following Pokémon:

Charizard, Gengar, Kangaskhan, Tyranitar, Gardevoir, Mawile, Salamence, Garchomp, Rotom, Heatran, Cresselia, Amoonguss, Bisharp, Terrakion, Thundurus, Landorus, Greninja, Talonflame, Aegislash, and Sylveon.

These are the 12 most used Pokémon in the format as of last week:

This would be the perfect ruleset for next year. Take the 12 most used Pokémon from the last year in all the PGL Battle Spot seasons since ORAS up until January (when the ruleset goes into place), as well as International Challenges, Nationals and Worlds, and ban them.

Job done.

 

[Qurupeke]

If no new game is out before Worlds next year (which is very possible), we'll still be on the ORAS metagame so expect to see the same things. They could go the GS Cup route like what was mentioned earlier but then you just get Mega Rayquaza on every team unless they ban Dragon Ascent.

Honestly, a Kyogre with Choice Scarf would probably still be in every team. At least this would mean no Landorus-T, right?

 

[Boss Doggie]

Say, when was the last time any of the legendary birds ever got shown in anime, barring openings?

 

[MarkusRJR]

Shiny Rayquaza looks so cool. It's a shame that I've never found a legit shiny in the wild...

Also, just bought two complete copies of FireRed/LeafGreen off ebay to complete my collection. For some reason I never got those games, despite being a huge Pokemon fan and owning every mainline game (apart from those two). Are there any major changes apart from the obvious visual and battle system upgrades? Going to play through LeafGreen once they both arrive in the mail.

 

[JoeM86]

Say, when was the last time any of the legendary birds ever got shown in anime, barring openings?

Assuming you don't count Origins

Technically, Flames of a Red-Hot Reunion! where a flashback against Noland's Articuno

Not counting that then Zapdos in Dealing With a Fierce Double Ditto Drama! in the Sinnoh League

 

[PreyingShark]

This would be the perfect ruleset for next year. Take the 12 most used Pokémon from the last year in all the PGL Battle Spot seasons since ORAS up until January (when the ruleset goes into place), as well as International Challenges, Nationals and Worlds, and ban them.

Yes please.

 

[Weebos]

I'm in favor of either GS battle or the Special Battle bans for next year.

I would love GS battle though, I want to ride Xerneas to the top.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Assuming you don't count Origins

Technically, Flames of a Red-Hot Reunion! where a flashback against Noland's Articuno

Not counting that then Zapdos in Dealing With a Fierce Double Ditto Drama! in the Sinnoh League

Not counting Origins yeah.

Hmm I don't remember that Flames of a Red-Hot Reunion, what was that about.

 

[Man God]

Screw talking about the last time the anime featured the birds, talk about the time James thought he was a mighty Moltres!

 

[MillionVolts]

Just received an e-mail saying that the Symphonic Evolutions show in Detroit that was going to be next month and I bought a ticket for has been cancelled. =/

After the thwarted attack in Boston I can understand if they're concerned about holding an event in a city like Detroit, but man this sucks. I was really looking forward to it.

 

[UltimateIke]

Screw talking about the last time the anime featured the birds, talk about the time James thought he was a mighty Moltres!

Flaming Moltres

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzfg0aBE19Y

 

[spiritfox]

Yo Ike, you doing the new thread?

 

[UltimateIke]

Yo Ike, you doing the new thread?

If I do it, it will be a near copy/paste of this one, with just a few tiny things altered and updated. I'll continue to keep it up-to-date with new games and movies and such, of course.

We need a name though, and I would like to keep the theme Andrex started by using a quote from that generation of games which mentions the region. So anything from Diamond/Pearl/Platinum with a Sinnoh reference.


"How are you enjoying being back in Sinnoh?" will be appropriate once the Gen 4 remakes are announced, hah.

 

[ColtraineGF]

Like Pearls Before Swinub

 

[UltimateIke]

Like Pearls Before Swinub

https://twitter.com/mewsus/status/409756850117038081