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PoliGAF 2nd Pres. Debate 2008 Thread (DOW dropping, Biden is off to Home Depot)
- Thread starter Amir0x
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Deus Ex Machina
Member
Photos: Protest over anti-Obama sign, Hendersonville, NC
Contact Info: http://landoftheskyrealty.homesandland.com/ContactRealtor.cfm?WebsiteId=33878&WebpageId=
Contact Info: http://landoftheskyrealty.homesandland.com/ContactRealtor.cfm?WebsiteId=33878&WebpageId=
There's a reason we have a two-party system, and it has to do with what the people want. At this point, it's almost impossible for us to escape the two-party system. Might as well give the airtime to the candidates that might be the President, not any candidate with an "interesting point of view."Krowley said:
Stoney Mason
Banned
There has been a noticeable lack of pessimism in these threads lately...
And then it hit me Phoenix Dark has been missing
Why did he get banned?
And then it hit me Phoenix Dark has been missing
Why did he get banned?
CharlieDigital said:
I think you may be right about that. The coalition been ripping in this election. You had Huckabee in the primaries with a very populist message and he terrified some of the economic conservatives. You had Ron Paul with his incredible fund raising and youth attraction.. McCain himself has been difficult to sell to the base because of some of his positions. There are some changes coming for the republican party soon. I'm not sure what shape they will take, but I hope they are positive.
I myself have decided to vote for Barr in the last couple of weeks in protest, just because of McCains ineptitude during this economic crisis. I have been very disappointed simply because he has nothing new to say about it. I'm not asking him to become an economic liberal, but he can't just say "I'll just keep doing what we've been doing. Everything will be fine."
Massive problems call for massive changes. Little tweaks aren't going to get the job done this time. That's partly why we need 3rd party's. They're the only ones that have the guts to advocate for big sweeping fundamental changes.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Deus Ex Machina said:Photos: Protest over anti-Obama sign, Hendersonville, NC
Contact Info: http://landoftheskyrealty.homesandland.com/ContactRealtor.cfm?WebsiteId=33878&WebpageId=
Hooray for these folks.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Third parties need to face the music and start to work with the two major parties and to integrate their ideas. It seems that the majority of Americans' views lies somewhere between the (R) and the (D). Why not take this as a signal that perhaps their own party message is a bit too far from center?
If they want to affect change, they will need to learn to work with the two parties and integrate their ideas. A sea change in political philosophy and governance does not occur overnight (well, except in the rare case of revolutions and uprising, but that is increasingly unlikely in this day and age of MNF).
American's don't handle this very well. Complacency and apathy have taken over and it's not leaving any time soon. People don't want to venture far from the status quo, but they want sensible changes. Extremism in any party is not going to be tolerated b the masses.
If they want to affect change, they will need to learn to work with the two parties and integrate their ideas. A sea change in political philosophy and governance does not occur overnight (well, except in the rare case of revolutions and uprising, but that is increasingly unlikely in this day and age of MNF).
Krowley said:
American's don't handle this very well. Complacency and apathy have taken over and it's not leaving any time soon. People don't want to venture far from the status quo, but they want sensible changes. Extremism in any party is not going to be tolerated b the masses.
Maxwell House
Member
Wow, that was fucking amazing.EviLore said:
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Maxwell House said:Wow, that was fucking amazing.
I dunno. I was reminded of why I hate Rush Limbaugh. Lots of stretches, half-truths, and ranting and condescending sarcasm. I'll take Maddow's more thoughtful (and slightly less sarcastic) material any day.
ChoklitReign
Member
Did you not catch the WSJ (section) cover story about how America's moving AWAY from partisanship?Tamanon said:
speculawyer
Member
I find that a bit hard to believe. Fans of the Ph.D atheist like McCain/Palin? They are ignorant or fake.Tamanon said:
Those "fans"? I say Let Them Eat War.
ChoklitReign
Member
Is higher better? The y-axis is really weird.GhaleonEB said:Nah. It's this:
Stoney Mason said:There has been a noticeable lack of pessimism in these threads lately...
And then it hit me Phoenix Dark has been missing
Why did he get banned?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FHAjS1SbqU
Seriously going to post this at least once per day. Never forget. Never take for granted. 2008 is not won yet. Yard signs do not vote and the only poll that matters is on election day.
electricpirate
Member
not Olbermann's best work, it's hard to equivocate a real actual terrorist with a blowhard idiot who doesn't even threaten violence. As for the pastor comment, the stuff about kenya was good, I was hoping he'd bring in the Jews for Jesus guy that spewed out the really hateful stuff.
Just to be specific, I don't think either should be brought into this race, not her antisemitic speaker, or Obama's Wright stuff. i do think it's tremendously hypocritical for her to attack Obama over a pastor when she's obviously just as fuckin bad.
Just to be specific, I don't think either should be brought into this race, not her antisemitic speaker, or Obama's Wright stuff. i do think it's tremendously hypocritical for her to attack Obama over a pastor when she's obviously just as fuckin bad.
Stoney Mason
Banned
electricpirate said:
Disagree completely. The quotes alone from that separatist guy are equal to anything Wright said or actually did. Her pastor is a wacko. If it's a game of "associations" she's as bad as anyone else and worse in many cases.
Byakuya769
Member
Stoney Mason said:
Yea but he did not bomb federal buildings, however.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Fox318 said:polls still could be wrong.
We know. They are still the best and only way however to predict a race.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Wait, was that before or after this past Sunday's Hannity's America? Because I saw that he was going to devote a full hour into some hard-hitting, investigative reporting exposing the full nature of Obama's relationship with every shady individual he's ever walked past on the street. Hannity, of course, took it upon himself to do this because the rest of the media is too cowardly to do it themselves.Ninja Scooter said:
Frank the Great
Banned
electricpirate said:
I think the point Olbermann was trying to make was that the association game can be played by both sides, and that the fact that the McCain campaign is choosing to attack Obama on something so ridiculous and silly, especially when they themselves could be attacked for the same thing, shows how desperate and how of touch they are with the American people and their concerns.
I don't think he was actually trying to link Palin to anything in any damaging way, I think he was just using her shady associations as an argument tool.
I'm going to disagree that it will fracture. I wish it does, really. McCain won't lose badly enough for this to happen. A lot of republicans feel that their party has left them. A lot of them don't care about the social conservative agenda and became sick and tired of it. Neocons have taken over the republican party, there is no doubt. The core of true republican ideals have been lost on Bush and his followers. Unfortunately it is going to take more than just McCain getting slaughtered in the election for something to really change. They have tasted the 'wine' of the fundies and it will be hard to get off of it,Krowley said:
electricpirate
Member
Re: Pessimissim: as awesome as it feels to be on top, and how confident I am in the Obama final push, registration, and ground game. I can't help but feel worried. I mean, when McCain started his "Celebrity" add I laughed. It was flailing desperation. Then it worked (or it was incredibly lucky and a period of nothing happening favored McCain), as terrible as these recent attacks have been, I fear too that they will work to some degree.
There are things going against them though, McCain and Palin have spent a ton of credibility. Voters and the media don't take these attacks at face value anymore (I hope). These ones are telegraphed, Obama had counter adds going before they even hit the air, and he already has subject changers like the keating 5 documentary and his health coverate policies. But these attacks are also far harsher than the celebrity garbage.
Still, I'm a democrat, I'm skittish. I know Obama isn't perfect, I disagree with him on a bunch of things, but I believe he's winning right now due to fundamentally better, more honest campaigning. Really, I'm just nervous, and I will remain so until a few days before the end.
I just got paid time to make a donation, and help put this thing through.
There are things going against them though, McCain and Palin have spent a ton of credibility. Voters and the media don't take these attacks at face value anymore (I hope). These ones are telegraphed, Obama had counter adds going before they even hit the air, and he already has subject changers like the keating 5 documentary and his health coverate policies. But these attacks are also far harsher than the celebrity garbage.
Still, I'm a democrat, I'm skittish. I know Obama isn't perfect, I disagree with him on a bunch of things, but I believe he's winning right now due to fundamentally better, more honest campaigning. Really, I'm just nervous, and I will remain so until a few days before the end.
I just got paid time to make a donation, and help put this thing through.
CharlieDigital
Banned
pxleyes said:
I can't wait for documentary to be made about this election. It will be epic. All of the fuck ups by McCain's camp. The pretty much made-for-Disney ascension of Palin. The unthinkable nomination of a black man for President...I want to hear the behind the scenes story of how all of this unfolded from both sides.
Fucking epic.
As for something someone (Krowley? mAc-something-something?) brought up about merit last night, saying that there was no difference between the two or something wacky like that, think about this: It's taken John McCain three tries to be nominated to the top of his ticket and he's had 72 years to get to this point. It's only taken Barack Obama one try and 47 years to get to this point. Obama has, in his first try, defeated the most powerful brand name in Democratic politics and is currently leading in national polls, just some twenty odd days out.
Epic.
I never thought that before I turned 30, I'd see a black president in the office of the President of the United States. EVER. The only thing that could top this -- in terms of no fucking way I thought it would happen -- is seeing an Asian American nomination some time in my lifetime :lol (Jindal??)
infiniteloop
Member
She-Bush!
Stoney Mason
Banned
Byakuya769 said:
If we are simply playing guilt by Association as I mentioned earlier Mccain has been on the G Gordon Liddy show. This is a man who is a convicted felon who tried to subvert democracy. By appearing on his show is Mccain legitimizing what he's done? or Charles Keating. or Whoever Palin has been around. I think the point is once you go down the road of casual associations you yourself are open to the very charge. Is that what this race is about? Who has the most people of dubious connections they have interacted with no matter how casual the connection.
I think the GOP will fracture, but because of outside influences. With demographic changes making a steep Democratic advantage in the Electoral College more believable, some in the GOP are going to want to alter the party's stances on certain issues in an effort to attract more moderate voters. Others will steadfastly refuse. It's going to be fascinating (and delicious) to watch from the outside.
CharlieDigital
Banned
vitaflo said:
Good call, dude.
electricpirate
Member
Tamanon said:
See, IMO, it didn't come off that way, it came off as shrill, LOOK AT THEM.
Hence why this isn't one of his best, he could have made the point that, "Hey her shits just as bad, so she's a fucking hypocrite." more effectively IMO.
Byakuya769
Member
Stoney Mason said:
Why do so many people try to use logic with me, when I am simply pointing out the illogical ideas that will be garnered by people who eat this shit up. You're preaching to the choir, I know all this... however, in the world of "TERRORISM!!!!" That little silly connection to Ayers easily gets more traction than those others, it just on Barack to lay out how stupid it is... for the 50th time, but he has to do it.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
anecdotal evidence ahoy, ... but virtually every mccain supporter i know, after i have a few beers with them, stresses to me how they "aren't republican" but independent or libertarian. the brand is just so damaged. is it damaged enough to fragment? it's looking like that, but despite all the gloom and doom on their side, they STILL control an overwhelming faction of america. and probably still will even if obama wins and dems take over 60 senate seats.
WickedAngel
Banned
Byakuya769 said:
Which isn't relevant anyways; Olbermann cited two characters that the Palin's family have purposefully associated with. Their interactions with those characters were much more involved than Obama's interactions with Ayers.
The people who are swayed by these tactics wouldn't have voted for Obama anyways so you might as well not trouble yourself with stressing over it.
speculawyer
Member
That was pure genius in the SNL skit. :lolMassiveAttack said:
Byakuya769 said:
Yes. The premise here is that guilt by association only works on those looking for an excuse to cover up their racist tendencies. They wouldn't care if their was a video of Sarah Palin "Sieg Hiel"ing a portrait of Der Fuhrer. I would imagine some would secretly like it.
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