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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
MightyHedgehog said:
Well, those are the die hard Republicans who wear that shit-eating grin for the sake of the party. No reason to think more of it. If anyone wants to vote for McCain/Palin based on the two speeches, tonight and last night, I don't think I could have an intelligent conversation with them anyway. They're too far gone to reason with.
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This is why I despise diehard Obama/Dem fans. I mean, seriously, stop with the elitist bullcrap.

The other day I said I disliked Biden for his views on abortion and that he wasn't a true Catholic. After hearing some points from DemGAF, I realized I was wrong (not about abortion, but about his views on it) and gained some insight into Obama's campaign.

Had I been like you, Hedgehog, I would have dismissed Biden altogether and rambled on and on like a loon. I'm glad I didn't.
 
S

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
you guys see this article?

http://rushkoff.com/2008/09/04/hate-party/

Hate Party

I felt a bit nauseous watching the Republican convention last night. I’m very much a give-the-benefit-of-the-doubt kind of guy, so I try to listen to the arguments people make even when they’re made in over-the-top or patronizing ways. Sometimes it’s good to distinguish between the rhetorical devices and the underlying substance. Even people who use manipulative language sometimes have an important point beneath their persuasion techniques (ads against smoking, for example).

I usually don’t feel uneasy when I put those filters on, but last night - during the Guiliani speech - I realized I was no longer filtering a speechwriter’s intentional manipulation; I was trying to look beyond real hate. These folks were gritting their teeth, shaking their fists, and smiling the way gladiators do when going into combat against barbarians. And this is the incumbent party. The ones currently in power.

What is it they hate? Guiliani and Palin both made it pretty clear: community organizing. Community organizing is energized from below. From the periphery. It is the direction and facilitation of mass energy towards productive and cooperative ends. It is about replacing conflict with collaboration. It is the opposite of war; it is peace.

Last night, the Republican Convention made it clear they prefer war. They see the world as a dangerous and terrible place. Like the fascist leaders satirized in Starship Troopers, they say they believe it is better to be on the offensive, taking the war to the people who might wish us harm than playing defense. It is better to be an international aggressor - a bulldog with lipstick - than led by the misguided notion that attacking people itself makes the world a more dangerous place.

In their attack on community organizing - a word combination they pretended they didn’t know what it meant - Giuliani and Palin revealed their refusal to acknowledge the kinds of bottom-up processes through which our society was built, and through which local communities can begin to assert some authority over their schools, environments, and economies. Without organized communities, you don’t get the reduction in centralized government the Republicans pretend to be arguing for. In their view, community organizing as, at best, equivalent to disruptive and unpredictable Al Qaeda activity.

But it actually goes deeper than this. Consider how Republicans have so far justified their choice of candidate: he is a “great man.” That America needs a “hero” in the White House to lead us in continued preemptive strikes against Bin Laden in Iraq (I know Bin Laden is not in Iraq, but Giuliani clearly implied he was). Only a leader with McCain’s war record and paternal qualifications can help Americans muster and maintain the tenacity necessary to “drill baby drill,” (even though this will have no influence on oil price or supply) and generate the requisite hate to “kill baby, kill.” As I explained in Coercion, having a parent figure on whom to transfer authority allows people to regress to a more childlike state. This not only allows them to feel safe; if gives them the freedom to express their rage. Make no mistake - that’s what we’re witnessing. And this rage - not America - is the greatest threat to humanity’s long-term chances for survival.

Republican party representatives are proud today that their convention has finally produced the “same level of energy and enthusiasm” as the DNC’s last week. And while it may have produced the same level of excitement, the excitement was of a very different character. It’s much easier to get people riled up but inviting them to hate a man - particularly one who they haven’t been allowed to hate for traditional reasons. Giuliani’s job - much like his job as mayor of NYC - was to give the Republicans in attendance permission to hate Obama and the potentially intelligent society he represents. It’s not about city vs. country or educated vs. military. It’s about thought vs. violence.

In the black and white world of those committed to war as an international relations strategy, voting “present” makes no sense - especially when the Illinois legislative process is willfully misrepresented. (Voting present is a way to preserve the bill without passing it in its current state. Far from an easy out, it is the hard path - requiring further negotiation to remove earmarks and other problems.) They would prefer the simple relief of a “yes or no” world, where the evil are punished and the good rewarded. For in such a world, we get to know who the enemy is and just hate them.

I don’t believe hate is the best way to motivate people to develop long-term solutions to problems. It is a tried and tested way to motivate them to short-term support of dangerous leaders. That much is certain. But if McCain and Palin are able to rouse the national hatred they will need to actually win this election, I fear they will have unleashed a force that they will be unable to control.
Click to expand...
what do you think? Guy pretty much nails it IMO
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Deku said:
Obama-philes seem rather deflated recently with Palin's high ratings last night and all the mud apparently not yet sticking ?

Anyone worried McCain might actually win now?
Click to expand...

No. There's so much more enthusiasm on the Obama side. You actually have to get up and go vote on election day, and the Obama supporters/Democrats will do that in droves. Look at the primaries, for one.

Meanwhile on the Republican side, Palin is getting more people excited than the actual presidential nominee, which can't be a good sign.

This convention will also turn off every moderate/independent out there, especially last night's speeches.
 
W

WickedAngel

Banned
Deku said:
Obama-philes seem rather deflated recently with Palin's high ratings last night and all the mud apparently not yet sticking ?

Anyone worried McCain might actually win now?
Click to expand...

You're delusional if you think that ratings draw was any sign of pure support for her. I've never had any intention of voting Republican and I watched (As did many others) because I've never heard a single word about this woman until now.
 
M

MassiveAttack

Banned
Deku said:
Obama-philes seem rather deflated recently with Palin's high ratings last night and all the mud apparently not yet sticking ?

Anyone worried McCain might actually win now?
Click to expand...
mirror.jpg
 
T

theviolenthero

Member
NullPointer said:
An honest question for McCain/Palin supporters:

What do you expect McCain to change if he becomes president? I don't see too much daylight between McCain and Bush's policies.

If I'm missing something, I'd love to hear the goods. God knows the speeches didn't give me any information to go off of.
Click to expand...


This question has been asked many times and NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVER RESPONDED!!!!

But just in-case someone does...

He voted with Bush 90% of the time, including 95% of the time in 2007. Hows he different?
 
W

WickedAngel

Banned
chubigans said:
This is why I despise diehard Obama/Dem fans. I mean, seriously, stop with the elitist bullcrap.

The other day I said I disliked Biden for his views on abortion and that he wasn't a true Catholic. After hearing some points from DemGAF, I realized I was wrong (not about abortion, but about his views on it) and gained some insight into Obama's campaign.

Had I been like you, Hedgehog, I would have dismissed Biden altogether and rambled on and on like a loon. I'm glad I didn't.
Click to expand...

Your mistake was from a lack of knowledge. Their mistake is from intentional ignorance and unwillingness to accept truths. There is a significant difference, and yes, it's quite tiring to deal with. How would you feel if someone continued to hammer home a talking point that had been refuted a dozen times over the past few months? How do you deal with someone who is so smug about their ignorance that they will do anything to twist the facts in order to justify their bigoted and ignorant fear?

*Edit*

The speeches tonight set it in stone; the Republicans have absolutely no intention of fighting based on policy because they know they have no ground to stand on. If they can't smear and evoke fear from enough people, they lose the White House.
 
P

purnoman3000

Member
deadbeef said:
Correct. Keep your dirty foreign finances out of our election process.

Get your own America!
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your election has almost as much impact on me and my country as my own election does.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
SpeedingUptoStop said:
you guys see this article?

http://rushkoff.com/2008/09/04/hate-party/

what do you think? Guy pretty much nails it IMO
Click to expand...

Yeah . . . needs bolding . . .

Hate Party

I felt a bit nauseous watching the Republican convention last night. I’m very much a give-the-benefit-of-the-doubt kind of guy, so I try to listen to the arguments people make even when they’re made in over-the-top or patronizing ways. Sometimes it’s good to distinguish between the rhetorical devices and the underlying substance. Even people who use manipulative language sometimes have an important point beneath their persuasion techniques (ads against smoking, for example).

I usually don’t feel uneasy when I put those filters on, but last night - during the Guiliani speech - I realized I was no longer filtering a speechwriter’s intentional manipulation; I was trying to look beyond real hate. These folks were gritting their teeth, shaking their fists, and smiling the way gladiators do when going into combat against barbarians. And this is the incumbent party. The ones currently in power.

What is it they hate? Guiliani and Palin both made it pretty clear: community organizing. Community organizing is energized from below. From the periphery. It is the direction and facilitation of mass energy towards productive and cooperative ends. It is about replacing conflict with collaboration. It is the opposite of war; it is peace.

Last night, the Republican Convention made it clear they prefer war. They see the world as a dangerous and terrible place. Like the fascist leaders satirized in Starship Troopers, they say they believe it is better to be on the offensive, taking the war to the people who might wish us harm than playing defense. It is better to be an international aggressor - a bulldog with lipstick - than led by the misguided notion that attacking people itself makes the world a more dangerous place.

In their attack on community organizing - a word combination they pretended they didn’t know what it meant - Giuliani and Palin revealed their refusal to acknowledge the kinds of bottom-up processes through which our society was built, and through which local communities can begin to assert some authority over their schools, environments, and economies. Without organized communities, you don’t get the reduction in centralized government the Republicans pretend to be arguing for. In their view, community organizing as, at best, equivalent to disruptive and unpredictable Al Qaeda activity.

But it actually goes deeper than this. Consider how Republicans have so far justified their choice of candidate: he is a “great man.” That America needs a “hero” in the White House to lead us in continued preemptive strikes against Bin Laden in Iraq (I know Bin Laden is not in Iraq, but Giuliani clearly implied he was). Only a leader with McCain’s war record and paternal qualifications can help Americans muster and maintain the tenacity necessary to “drill baby drill,” (even though this will have no influence on oil price or supply) and generate the requisite hate to “kill baby, kill.” As I explained in Coercion, having a parent figure on whom to transfer authority allows people to regress to a more childlike state. This not only allows them to feel safe; if gives them the freedom to express their rage. Make no mistake - that’s what we’re witnessing. And this rage - not America - is the greatest threat to humanity’s long-term chances for survival.

Republican party representatives are proud today that their convention has finally produced the “same level of energy and enthusiasm” as the DNC’s last week. And while it may have produced the same level of excitement, the excitement was of a very different character. It’s much easier to get people riled up but inviting them to hate a man - particularly one who they haven’t been allowed to hate for traditional reasons. Giuliani’s job - much like his job as mayor of NYC - was to give the Republicans in attendance permission to hate Obama and the potentially intelligent society he represents. It’s not about city vs. country or educated vs. military. It’s about thought vs. violence.

In the black and white world of those committed to war as an international relations strategy, voting “present” makes no sense - especially when the Illinois legislative process is willfully misrepresented. (Voting present is a way to preserve the bill without passing it in its current state. Far from an easy out, it is the hard path - requiring further negotiation to remove earmarks and other problems.) They would prefer the simple relief of a “yes or no” world, where the evil are punished and the good rewarded. For in such a world, we get to know who the enemy is and just hate them.

I don’t believe hate is the best way to motivate people to develop long-term solutions to problems. It is a tried and tested way to motivate them to short-term support of dangerous leaders. That much is certain. But if McCain and Palin are able to rouse the national hatred they will need to actually win this election, I fear they will have unleashed a force that they will be unable to control.
Click to expand...
 
L

laserbeam

Banned
purnoman3000 said:
Sorry, but your election has almost as much impact on me and my country as my own election does.
Click to expand...
Thats fine and dandy but US law says keep your money out of the US Election.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
tanod said:
Wow. Thread moving slow. I wonder how many people are in the old one hitting refresh. :D
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That was me . should have been a post saying come here lol
 
S

Son of Godzilla

Banned
MightyHedgehog said:
Well, those are the die hard Republicans who wear that shit-eating grin for the sake of the party. No reason to think more of it. If anyone wants to vote for McCain/Palin based on their two RNC speeches (among the rest of the crap), I don't think I could have an intelligent conversation with them anyway. They're too far gone to reason with.
Click to expand...
I really don't think the actual base was that enthralled by McCain's speech. That was the end of the convention and the people in that building *are* the RNC. Of course they are going to celebrate. But he lost the audience completely way too many times during the speech. There were so many things he brought up that silenced everyone. Which is just as well, he was basically up there calling them all idiots and saying they should lose their jobs.

Anyways, the questioning of that girl on abortion on TDS was probably the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Obama fans are not deflated. We raised $10 million in under 24 hours. That is not deflated. That is energized like you cant believe.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Man . .. . NPR panned it bad.

And on top of that, they say "This is the best speech John McCain delivered."


In other words . . . it sucked and that is the best he can do. :lol
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
Colbert laughing and John's fuck you line were the best examples of showing exactly how disrespectful towards community service some of those speakers were.
 
C

chubigans

y'all should be ashamed
WickedAngel said:
Your mistake was from a lack of knowledge. Their mistake is from intentional ignorance and unwillingness to accept truths. There is a significant difference, and yes, it's quite tiring to deal with. How would you feel if someone continued to hammer home a talking point that had been refuted a dozen times over the past few months? How do you deal with someone who is so smug about their ignorance that they will do anything to twist the facts in order to justify their bigoted and ignorant fear?
Click to expand...
I understand what you mean, but I still hate getting lumped into the "mindless" category despite me voting for McCain. :p

Though he wasn't really targeting all Republicans specifically, of course.
 
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