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Speedrunning Thread - RESETRESETRESET

E

E-Cat

Member
A crazy 1:41:17 SM64 WR by cheese05. It's practically flawless, save for a mediocre Bob-omb Battlefield and bad Hazy Maze Cave/Snowman's Land. He had an insane upstairs time of 1:04:42, which is the best ever, and well under 1:41 pace. So 1:40:xx is definitely in sight now.
 
L

LeleSocho

Banned
E-Cat said:
A crazy 1:41:17 SM64 WR by cheese05. It's practically flawless, save for a mediocre Bob-omb Battlefield and bad Hazy Maze Cave/Snowman's Land. He had an insane upstairs time of 1:04:42, which is the best ever, and well under 1:41 pace. So 1:40:xx is definitely in sight now.
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Wow that's absolutely incredible.
Almost out of nowhere such an hard record gets beaten in such little time... congrats to cheese, really.
 
Velcro Fly

Velcro Fly

Member
A game like SM64 that is so popular will constantly see routes/strats refined and retooled to keep the time down, especially now that the WR seems in play among a few people. I always enjoyed watching Sig troll chat on his runs but seeing so many people put meaningful time into the game and push the time down even more is just great.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
danielcw said:
Anybody knows a good link that explains what happens in written form?
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the twitch highlight has him explain the trick for the second half of the video, simply put a glitch is causing an overflow and they are setting values and code for the game to see and do something with, very much the same trick as the super mario world credits warp.
 
D

danielcw

Member
Samarecarm said:
Not in written form, but Carl goes through it step-by-step in a video and explains it here
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Diablohead said:
the twitch highlight has him explain the trick for the second half of the video, simply put a glitch is causing an overflow and they are setting values and code for the game to see and do something with, very much the same trick as the super mario world credits warp.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
I the meantime I have seen the whole video, and while his explanation was very detailed, it wasn't detailed enough for my taste, and I prefer to read those in written form at my own pace.
He mentions that the guy who worked it out, Arne, was in chat and posted one or 2 links.
Do you happen to have those?

Is there a good link for the Super Mario World credits warp?
 
R

redhairedking

Junior Member
Hey everyone, I've enjoyed watching speedruns for several years now but am getting interested in trying my hand at a few. Is there any advice you could give to a beginner?
 
8

88Titan88

Member
redhairedking said:
Hey everyone, I've enjoyed watching speedruns for several years now but am getting interested in trying my hand at a few. Is there any advice you could give to a beginner?
Click to expand...
I'm not a pro, but these are the basic guidelines:
  • Begin with a game you really like, and preferably one that has a good amount of guides and material to help you. I started with Super Mario 64, for example.
  • Remember to record your runs properly, or else they won't be recognized. Also, 60fps streams/videos (when possible) are very appreciated in this community.
  • You must not only train your hand-eye coordination, but also your nerves: your heart will probably pound like crazy and your hands will sweat in the last part of a promising run so you have to be mentally prepared.
 
R

redhairedking

Junior Member
88Titan88 said:
I'm not a pro, but these are the basic guidelines:
  • Begin with a game you really like, and preferably one that has a good amount of guides and material to help you. I started with Super Mario 64, for example.
  • Remember to record your runs properly, or else they won't be recognized.
  • You must not only train your hand-eye coordination, but also your nerves: your heart will probably pound like crazy and your hands will sweat in the last part of a promising run so you have to be mentally prepared.
Click to expand...

What is the proper way to record a run? I typically see video/audio captured from the console with the occasional splits or runner cam. I'm still trying to decide on a game to start with but am tossing a couple of ideas around.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
redhairedking said:
What is the proper way to record a run? I typically see video/audio captured from the console with the occasional splits or runner cam. I'm still trying to decide on a game to start with but am tossing a couple of ideas around.
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Use obs to record. Or your capture card. Streaming is also piss easy if you have passable internet. Also I think it's worth noting that speed running isn't for everyone. While I love watching speeduns the pure execution required to get a run I would be happy with is too intimidating.

Oh, and I should say that you don't really need to record anything until your runs are good enough to be relevant. I mean if the wr is 20 minutes and you're just under 40 here isn't really much reason to record since no one is going to bother to dispute your time.
 
8

88Titan88

Member
redhairedking said:
What is the proper way to record a run? I typically see video/audio captured from the console with the occasional splits or runner cam. I'm still trying to decide on a game to start with but am tossing a couple of ideas around.
Click to expand...
By properly recorded I mean with no hiccups and with decent image quality.
Splits aren't necessary but are a cool thing to have IMO. Runner or hand cams are totally optional.
 
R

redhairedking

Junior Member
Good to know, thanks guys. I doubt I'll be getting WRs anytime soon so any recordings would be for tracking my own PBs/competing with other non-top runners.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
redhairedking said:
Good to know, thanks guys. I doubt I'll be getting WRs anytime soon so any recordings would be for tracking my own PBs/competing with other non-top runners.
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I think if you just want to compare your runs to others, splits should be sufficient. Recording definitely helps to discover what mistakes and optimizations you could improve in your runs, though. Streaming is the option I would recommend since if -- in the future -- you decide you want to stream, it's better to start early so you accumulate some viewers over time.

Note: you won't get viewers for a long time. It sucks. Just keep going if you think you may want to stream more in the future. You don't need a super high res/high production value stream, just put your game on and talk to the occasional person that enters chat either via voice or the chat function. simple enough.
 
R

redhairedking

Junior Member
NormalFish said:
I think if you just want to compare your runs to others, splits should be sufficient. Recording definitely helps to discover what mistakes and optimizations you could improve in your runs, though. Streaming is the option I would recommend since if -- in the future -- you decide you want to stream, it's better to start early so you accumulate some viewers over time.

Note: you won't get viewers for a long time. It sucks. Just keep going if you think you may want to stream more in the future. You don't need a super high res/high production value stream, just put your game on and talk to the occasional person that enters chat either via voice or the chat function. simple enough.
Click to expand...

I was planning on streaming and wasn't really expecting to have a whole lot of viewers. The only popular games I was considering starting out with wouldn't be very fun to watch since I won't be able to compete with the top runners.
 
L

LordAlu

Member
redhairedking said:
I was planning on streaming and wasn't really expecting to have a whole lot of viewers. The only popular games I was considering starting out with wouldn't be very fun to watch since I won't be able to compete with the top runners.
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When you begin it shouldn't be about competing with others, only yourself. Pick a game you like and want to learn and improve at and stick with just that game. You'll start to build viewers regardless of the games' popularity as you improve and interact with them. There's always someone out there who will watch regardless of how obscure a game may be.

As you keep improving you should start to look at competing, by taking the next nearest runner's time and using it as a target to aim for.

For example, I started at the bottom of the Zero Mission 100% "rung" if you will a year ago and am now 6th - Kirbymastah is my next target time and that encourages me to improve so I can beat it.

I wouldn't recommend switching games (unless it's an event or something) until you build up a regular viewership - a lot of viewers lurk and are simply there to watch the game you're playing. Eventually though you'll get a steady stream of regulars who will be interested in staying when you play something decent just for your interaction.
 
R

redhairedking

Junior Member
I've started running Ms. Pac-Man Maze Madness. There isn't really anyone else running yet so I'm getting to do all sorts of optimization/routing on my own which is pretty fun.
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
The SGDQ game list is now up. Schedule still needs to be worked out:
https://gamesdonequick.com/submission/all
Like with many time limited schedules being rejected does not mean a run was bad it is just with 10 times as much running time as available time a lot needs to go.

Things I'm looking forward to:
Kirby tilt n' tumble is going to be hilarious (runner is using game boy player so has to tilt entire gamecube).
One handed F-Zero GX is going to be interesting too (I guess they quite literally can say "I can beat F-zero GX master difficulty with a hand tied behind my back"
original donation comment, do not steal
).
 
C

CassSept

Member
Trihex Yoshi's Island run?

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T

TUSR

Banned
New OOT any% WR

17:47

http://www.twitch.tv/skater82297/v/4798001

Requires a bit of explanation along with it:
So, when you exit a crawlspace, there is a brief period of time where the camera doesn't follow Link. If, during this brief period, you get the "I just got deku nuts for the first time ever" message window to pop up, then the sudden camera change will interrupt this message box, allowing enemies to move during it. If Link is hit, then he can also move during it. This delays the nuts actually being acquired until you (for some reason I don't understand) dive into water and resurface. HOWEVER, if you walk in front of various treasure chests, the item you resurface with will change, and it just so happens that the Dungeon Map chest will change this item to a Blue Potion.
Also, doing this will crash the game on both N64 and iQue. This is why Wii VC version is now used.
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J

Jokab

Member
I love how so many OoT glitches are of the form "it just so happens" or "fortunately, thing X we wanted to happen is actually possible". There aren't that many chests to choose from in Deku Tree to begin with, and only a few of them would make this route viable over the old route. It just so happens that the dungeon map chest gives the exact item that was needed. I can't help but laugh.
 
T

TUSR

Banned
Jokab said:
I love how so many OoT glitches are of the form "it just so happens" or "fortunately, thing X we wanted to happen is actually possible". There aren't that many chests to choose from in Deku Tree to begin with, and only a few of them would make this route viable over the old route. It just so happens that the dungeon map chest gives the exact item that was needed. I can't help but laugh.
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I haven't been keeping up with OOT much, or speedrunning in general, but when I saw the bottle appear I laughed.

"of course the chest will generate a blue potion"

Not even phased.
 
L

LeleSocho

Banned
OoT in general is such a joke nowadays that i lost all interest in watching the traditional categories... we arrived to the point that you can do anything in the game, where's the fun in watching any% then? There's even something that spectacular that could improve drastically the time?

The last thing i was excited about something OoT related was when Wrong Warp was discovered.
 
J

Jokab

Member
LeleSocho said:
OoT in general is such a joke nowadays that i lost all interest in watching the traditional categories... we arrived to the point that you can do anything in the game, where's the fun in watching any% then? There's even something that spectacular that could improve drastically the time?

The last thing i was excited about something OoT related was when Wrong Warp was discovered.
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I'm not sure what you're saying. You can do a whole lot in the game yes, but why would that fact make any% boring to watch? It's still the fastest way to complete the game. If you don't want to watch the fastest way, then there are other interesting categories like max% child that ZFG is routing and will start running soon. Essentially get as many items as you can without ever going adult, with the run ending as soon as you do. You'd be surprised how many adult items are actually obtainable as child.
 
L

LeleSocho

Banned
Jokab said:
I'm not sure what you're saying. You can do a whole lot in the game yes, but why would that fact make any% boring to watch? It's still the fastest way to complete the game.
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Once you've seen OoT any% 1, 2, 3, 4, 20 times it essentially becomes as fun as pressing start in the start menu and then watching the credits immediately after that.
any% is neither fun to watch nor to play since it's incredibly reset heavy and there's no much to see anyway once you've seen it a couple of times.
In other categories stuff can happen and are more subject to route changes.

Actually the fact that any% is boring is pretty much shown by the fact that both the number of runners and viewers for the category are not as big as they were a couple of years ago.

Jokab said:
If you don't want to watch the fastest way, then there are other interesting categories like max% child that ZFG is routing and will start running soon. Essentially get as many items as you can without ever going adult, with the run ending as soon as you do. You'd be surprised how many adult items are actually obtainable as child.
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max% child is nice but personally i was liking more the Glitched 100% he was doing before.
Actually i'm waiting for him to grow tired of OoT so he can mess around with TP once again. Those TP streams are super comfy.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
LeleSocho said:
Once you've seen OoT any% 1, 2, 3, 4, 20 times it essentially becomes as fun as pressing start in the start menu and then watching the credits immediately after that.
any% is neither fun to watch nor to play since it's incredibly reset heavy and there's no much to see anyway once you've seen it a couple of times.
In other categories stuff can happen and are more subject to route changes.

Actually the fact that any% is boring is pretty much shown by the fact that both the number of runners and viewers for the category are not as big as they were a couple of years ago.
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So basically it has nothing to do with OoT and everything to do with people going for good times in an optimized and difficult category. Your complaints are true in literally every game that is -- as I stated -- optimized and has difficult tricks. If you think this is something inherent to Ocarina you're incredibly confused.

Not to mention your reasoning as for why there are less viewers now is also flawed. You know why it was a big a couple years ago? Because streamers that people cared about ran it. People like Cosmo, who can pull viewers playing actually boring games. Additionally, the category used to be far less optimized so there was more potential to get records. That doesn't make it boring but appeals to a different audience. Generally a more 'hardcore' or 'enthusiast' speedrun audience who care more about optimization than just simply beating records.
 
L

LeleSocho

Banned
NormalFish said:
So basically it has nothing to do with OoT and everything to do with people going for good times in an optimized and difficult category. Your complaints are true in literally every game that is -- as I stated -- optimized and has difficult tricks. If you think this is something inherent to Ocarina you're incredibly confused.

Not to mention your reasoning as for why there are less viewers now is also flawed. You know why it was a big a couple years ago? Because streamers that people cared about ran it. People like Cosmo, who can pull viewers playing actually boring games. Additionally, the category used to be far less optimized so there was more potential to get records. That doesn't make it boring but appeals to a different audience. Generally a more 'hardcore' or 'enthusiast' speedrun audience who care more about optimization than just simply beating records.
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It has everything to do with OoT really.
OoT is a very famous game and essentially a stepping stone for every speedrunner and because of this status people always and test new stuff on it, the result is that we have reached to point where the game is fundamentally broken and speedrunning any% just becomes unappealing.
Ocarina is a victim of its intrinsic popularity.


Ocarina even outside big names in streaming always is/was one of the big names in speedruns and any% is almost by definition the most played category in speedruns, the fact that you bring Cosmo as a reason people don't speedrun OoT any% is nothing but a scapegoat in my eyes.
You think that the audience for any% is "Hardcore" and trying something other than to get a new record, i think that's bonkers because if you want pure optimization you go to a TAS or try to find new routes instead of trying to get that angle right in the movement to gain that 0.1 second which is something that even a monkey can do given time and requires no effort at all.
 
Y

YianGaruga

Banned
LeleSocho said:
You are right the only effort it requires is patience because you need to get good movement while also getting the glitches at the first try.
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Welcome to speedruns? This describes pretty much any speedrun of any classic game ever. Stuff like Gimmick, Mega Man 2 etc also don't require any effort, just patience, right?

The shit that is said in speedrunning discussions is baffling sometimes. I won't even respond to your other post because it's all nonsense. It's the typical "It's not difficult to get the WR if you spend enough time, anyone could do it" argument. Guess what, actually spending that time and grinding out runs is the difficult and impressive part.
 
L

LeleSocho

Banned
Ok i'll give one last attempt to explain what i mean then i'll stop because sincerely i had enough of being treated like some kind of idiot that doesn't know what is he talking about.
I've been watching speedruns a majority of my wake up hours for the last 3-4 years so i think i can have an opinion on something without being treated like trash.

The any% route run is well established and it's veeeery short ok?
We have had a run that is clean for some time now, you know the deku nuts RNG at the first mini gohma, good rock superslide from Ganon's Tower no major fuck ups etc.
Now all the variable that is left between a run and another is movement optimization like, for example, how fast to get from Link's house to the catdoor tunnel to get the Kokiri Sword and all the other "in betweens"... again even here the route is well established (backflip from link's house some backwalk then sidehop into the bushes to get rupees and so on) all that's left is stuff like being lucky to be in front of the tunnel when you turn around from the backwalk and hit A the same frame the game triggers the crawling animation and situations like that throughout the whole run.
When you arrive at this point the run is tedious to watch and to do and these kind of optimizations requires no major effort aside patience because it doesn't have to do with tricks or techniques, the route isn't even dangerous so examples like Gimmick (which i absolutely adore) where you need to have your nerves and reflexes up at 200% every second of the run don't really fit but it's just about having to punch the same combination of analog/buttons again and again until it happens and you are happy with the result.
This has nothing to do with how difficult the tricks are and how hard is to memorize and execute a route which is why i think this situation is bad.

Now if you find this stuff funny or interesting to watch what can i say? Good for you and continue to enjoy these runs.
I think that is clear enough that after a certain point people have lost interest in OoT any% for the reason i exposed in my posts.

I apologize in advance for the bad writing, i know i suck at that.
 
L

LordAlu

Member
FireSol said:
New WR in Battletoads 100% 29:27 by TMR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuuAOzzjiIE

Whats the difference between 100% and warpless cathegory??
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In 100%, as well as not warping you also need to display all the game level content, including:

  1. - Lv.4 "Arctic Caverns" - Not skipping upper part in the last check point where are located the porky pines.
  2. - Lv.6 "Karnath's Lair" - Not getting early exit in room 4 (Last room), this means showing all the snakes.
  3. - Lv. 9 "Terra Tubes" - Not allowed to go out of bounds at the beginning of the level, not allowed the pixel spike skip in the last check point. Spinner skips are allowed and also to swim between spikes in the last check point beginning, right before the 1up.
  4. - Lv.10 "Rat Race" - You need to do the whole race and kill the boss at the bottom.
 
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