Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Shame that plot synopsis looks to be correct. I don't really like it.
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Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
- Start date
Guess I'm not alone. The structure is very similar to the first film, but I still don't like it. Perhaps that's part of the reason.
Still, I always find Star Wars entertaining and my expectations have been adjusted accordingly, so I can't feel disappointed.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Yeah. I kinda felt this way since I saw the first teaser. Too much love and nostalgia for the Original trilogy while I wanted something entirely new or rather different from stuff I've seen before. But clearly looking at the reaction online that I'm in the minority.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Don't know, wasn't clear to me. I like the "new" synopsis somebody posted a bit earlier in the thread, since it had Phasma being a key component of all 3 major acts, even when it came to Maz Kanata and the lightsaber. I also like how she's kinda an evil reflection of Finn, like Kylo is for Rey. A heartless soldier, no concept of empathy, everything Finn feared he could be and rejects. I like the idea of him overcoming her and her mission at the end. I think that would be a strong thematic victory for his change from First Order stooge to Resistance hero.
Ya know, before he gets worked by Kylo Ren.
VistraNorrez
Member
Its good to know if the price is right any piece of art can be officially continued by anyone. The original artist doesn't matter at all. I hope this translates to other arts as well. I'd really love to see some new Van Gogh paintings and more Beatles music. Wish someone would buy those properties.
Jesting of course, but it is strange that it works that way.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Phasma survives. Hux doesn't.
Sorcerer
Member
It was sold by George himself so its not like he died and someone who was in charge of his estate sold it off. His estate was not pillaged and looted by Uwe Bowell.
I certainly get what you mean by artists work falling into the wrong hands, but I am pretty sure George was happy selling to Disney and apparently so are about 1 million other people it seems.
Well, when Lucas sold it, he gave them an outline for an entire trilogy, plus he hired a writer (Michael Arndt) to draft a treatment for Episode VII.
Considering how Arndt is still credited for the film, I have to imagine Lucas' vision is still in there somewhere.
Kitschkraft
Member
I'm the opposite....I hope they never have (Or at least, show) those kinds of feats in a live-action film.
Edit : Thought about this a bit, and Palpatine comes about as close to this type of power that I'm comfortable with in ROTS when he's picking up the senate seats and tossing them at Yoda. But even that was a stretch for me.
Not just that, too many plot devices from the series being reused, numerous absurd coincidences, weak tropes and other things that I'd rather wait and see first.
I'm pretty sure I'm still going to enjoy it, but I was very disappointed when I first read the synopsis.
GL said they're not using anything he wrote, while Kathleen Kennedy says they are. I'm inclined to believe Lucas.
Grover Cleveland
Member
Yeah.
Aping The Force Unleashed is not what I want from the movies.
That's an interpretation of the Force that just doesn't fit well with live-action.
CreepingFear
Member
I'm still wondering why Kylo appears to have his mask off when he goes after Finn. Is it shot off or something or does he take it off himself to show Finn he means business? Is that walk of his just the way he walks or did Han manage to get a good shot in before meeting his fate, causing a limp?
FriendlyGoat
Member
I doubt Han gets a shot off, but I can see either Chewie going apeshit with a barrage of fire or, more likely, all the explosions and base crumbling going on having something to do with it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Why
CreepingFear
Member
You can't believe a fucking word Lucas says, especially after he sold everything to Disney. He has had too many revisionist bullshit come out of his mouth.
If Arndt is still receiving credit, then his work is still in the script. Didn't he and Disney go to arbitration over his credit?
The Hermit
Member
I am not reading the thread, I am trying to be as spoiler free as possible, but I have one question that is driving me crazy:
Is Wedge Antilles in the new movies? I just read the actor turned down the role, so I am wondering if they scraped it or recasted him
Is Wedge Antilles in the new movies? I just read the actor turned down the role, so I am wondering if they scraped it or recasted him
I'm not, given his penchant for revisionist history.
I'd argue that, if you read between the lines, Lucas is intentionally downplaying his role in the genesis of these movies.
Edit: Plus, yeah, there are strict rules governing how writing credits work.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
GL's original quote:
“Well, the ones that I sold to Disney and everything, they came up to the decision that they didn’t really want to do those. So they made up their own. It’s not the ones that I originally wrote.”
Then Kathleen Kennedy's comment:
“We’ve made some departures” from Lucas’s ideas, Kennedy conceded, but only in “exactly the way you would in any development process.”
Which is the ultimate PR response.
I'm not suggesting the story would be any better if it was based on his ideas or anything. In fact, the teenager-centric story would probably be pretty bad, but if he's saying they're not using his stuff, I believe him.
Some people are already complaining (rightfully so IMO) that his name is not in any of the posters or promotional material, while even the recent Star Trek movies mentioned Gene Roddenberry.
(Lucasfilm is not the same thing)
Judging by what Lucas said, it sounds like the decision not to use his ideas was made very early in the process.
“Well, the ones that I sold to Disney and everything, they came up to the decision that they didn’t really want to do those. So they made up their own. It’s not the ones that I originally wrote.”
Then Kathleen Kennedy's comment:
“We’ve made some departures” from Lucas’s ideas, Kennedy conceded, but only in “exactly the way you would in any development process.”
Which is the ultimate PR response.
I'm not suggesting the story would be any better if it was based on his ideas or anything. In fact, the teenager-centric story would probably be pretty bad, but if he's saying they're not using his stuff, I believe him.
Why wouldn't I? He has no reason to lie about it. It's in Disney's interest to pretend they're not dumping everything the original creator gave them. I guess a considerable portion of the fans want just that, but it wouldn't look good.
Some people are already complaining (rightfully so IMO) that his name is not in any of the posters or promotional material, while even the recent Star Trek movies mentioned Gene Roddenberry.
(Lucasfilm is not the same thing)
That's debatable, though. What if you change as many words for synonyms as possible and keep everything 100% intact? Is the percentage based on text that remains untouched? Is it based on content? Then you'd have plot, story, characters, dialogue, descriptions, backgrounds, notes, etc.
Judging by what Lucas said, it sounds like the decision not to use his ideas was made very early in the process.
He never downplayed his role in anything AFAIK.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
...from a certain point of view
The Hermit
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He has no real reason to bullshit about a bunch of stuff he's bullshitted.
Doesn't mean he's not a documented bullshitter.
Besides which, as was pointed out, the fact Arndt's got a credit means at least a third of whatever he did is intact (whether that means basic plot, story, characterization, whatever), and that third was based on the notes Lucas gave him.
If Ardnt got through, that means part of Lucas got through, because Arndt based his shit directly on Lucas' notes.
It's weird to argue he's never downplayed his role in anything when he made it a point to downplay his role in EVERYTHING by selling his life's work to Disney for $4 billion.
What's a quick answer to paparazzi outside his car in the face of that?
True.
I'm sure he read Lucas' notes, but adaptations are always debatable. Maybe it's not 100% different, but it's probably different enough that he doesn't consider it based on his work, as is the case with the vast majority of adaptations.
Also, he downplayed his role in everything by selling the IPs and the companies? Seriously? That doesn't even make sense.
It was a great business opportunity and he didn't want to spend another 10 years working on another trilogy.
Doesn't change one thing about his role in creating the franchise and everything related to it, including his numerous mistakes and failures. It means he's not involved anymore, but that's it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It makes perfect fucking sense. I'm confused as to how it couldn't. His "role" in Star Wars Episode VII is almost non-existent. You know why? Because he sold Lucasfilm. How is that not "downplaying" his role? There's no role now. He sold the company. You seem to be acknowledging this as you're attempting to rebut it, apparently.
Then that's his problem.
If Kennedy says they're still using his notes, if Story Group says they still have his notes, if the WGA is still giving Arndt credit and Arndt's work was based off those notes, then I think I'm gonna roll with the idea that they're still using his notes, regardless what the guy completely uninvolved in the continuation of this cinematic universe might say.
Did you even read the original post I quoted?
These movies. I said he never downplayed his roles in the movies being referred to, and he never did. Yet for some reason you're talking about episode VII. So much for "perfect fucking sense".
Roll with whatever you want, just get a grip while you're at it.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Why wouldn't you use his notes? The guy has everything mapped out already. The story group just has to iron it out.
Moff
Member
because the prequels were not good? they wanted to start something new and better?
I am very surprised to read that apparently at least 30% of TFA is still based on Lucas' Story, do I understand that correctly?
TheKaeptain
Banned
Lucas is a good idea guy that needs someone to fix the wearker areas. You know what is good? The OT and he still had tons to say about it.
That's just speculation, we don't know that it went to WGA arbitration. That only happens when there's a disagreement. It's been rumored that there was one because Michael Arndt wasn't mentioned back when the release date was announced.
The arbitration process must decide whether the specific writer has contributed at least 33% of the material, but as I said above, it's not nearly as clear cut as some suggested here, and in the end it's an arbitrary decision.
The WGA arbitration process guideline says this:
It also mentions something quite relevant here:
"In the case of an original screenplay, the first writer shall be entitled to no less than a shared story credit."
Keep in mind that creative freedom was the reason JJ changed his mind and joined the project in the first place. It's not like he had to use what Arndt wrote, and I find it unlikely that he used much.
However, it's very likely that the WGA would've ruled in Arndt's favor anwyay, so they probably saved themselves the hassle, otherwise Disney would have to sue the WGA to remove his name, and the WGA wins most of these cases.
Anyway, even if 33% of the story was written by Arndt, which there's no way to know unless actual drafts are released and compared (don't hold your breath), that doesn't mean everything he wrote was strictly what Lucas gave them. Lucas discussed the story and attended several story group meetings, and he said they discarded his material.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
BobbyRoberts
Lore Expert
thanks... i guess
The actor refused to reprise his role as Wedge.
Grover Cleveland
Member
I don't think they used his stuff for this movie, but storytelling is the last thing I would complain about relating to George Lucas
The prequels had many issues that were larger than the movies' overall plot.
The prequels had many issues that were larger than the movies' overall plot.
Wasn't Ford "confirmed" to be in Episode 8 thanks to a cast-list? Could be fake though .. you never know. Although I'm pretty sure he'll die because he always wanted the character to die.
Besides, it'll follow the mentor/hero-death scene quite well.
Episode 1 - Qui-Gon Jinn.
Episode 4 - Obi-Wan
Besides, it'll follow the mentor/hero-death scene quite well.
Episode 1 - Qui-Gon Jinn.
Episode 4 - Obi-Wan
I think that list was fake, if I recall correct.
I can see it going either way, really. Him dying would definitely make sense since that's what Kasdan (and Ford I think) wanted in Jedi, so why not do it now? BUT, if what I read a couple pages back about him falling over a railing or off a ledge is true, I'll be skeptical that he's really dead. I pictured the scene being him getting hit in the chest with Kylo's lightsaber or something, but if there isn't a scene where he is definitively dead and we see the body, I can see them bringing him back in 8.
According to spoilers, he gets attacked by Kylo and then he falls. Depending on whether it's a stab or slash with the lightsaber I guess he could potentially survive.
I'm betting on he's dead for good though.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The "these movies" in that quote is referring to the Sequel Trilogy.
Which is why, in a thread about Episode VII rumors, I'm talking about Episode VII. Being as it's part of the Sequel Trilogy.
You're apparently not discussing the same thing everyone else is currently discussing, which explains your confusion.
kaiju
Member
It comes off during the battle in the woods between Finn and Rey.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Actually, wasn't there a rumor that said Kylo not only stabs Han, but actually THROWS HIS BODY away after killing him and saying "You're not my father?"
Shit is going to be rough, you guys. We're going to see Han at his most vulnerable (even moreso than when he was blinded in Jabba's prison, moreso than being tended to by Leia post Vader torture) and then we're going to see him get murdered for it.
Shit is going to be rough, you guys. We're going to see Han at his most vulnerable (even moreso than when he was blinded in Jabba's prison, moreso than being tended to by Leia post Vader torture) and then we're going to see him get murdered for it.
kaiju
Member
Han is going to die in VII. It will be a powerful, emotional moment in the movie that fans will never forget.
CreepingFear
Member
If it's executed well(no pun intended), it will setup the villain perfectly, maybe more than when Vader killed Obi Wan. The audience will have been with Han far longer than they were with Old man Obi Wan. Plus, a force user vs a non-force user seems unfair. Bad form.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
also:
Pretty sure that's Finn. So Rey is likely super-fucked up at this point because
a) she thought they'd abandoned her and they didn't, just in time for
b) Kylo (who she only just now remembers as the guy that got her ass stranded on Jakku in the first place with that Temple Assault bullshit) to kill Han in front of her, before
c) seeing Kylo injure Finn.
Whatever this fight between them is going to look like, it's probably gonna be pretty impassioned.
Pretty sure that's Finn. So Rey is likely super-fucked up at this point because
a) she thought they'd abandoned her and they didn't, just in time for
b) Kylo (who she only just now remembers as the guy that got her ass stranded on Jakku in the first place with that Temple Assault bullshit) to kill Han in front of her, before
c) seeing Kylo injure Finn.
Whatever this fight between them is going to look like, it's probably gonna be pretty impassioned.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Man, I am going to cry like a baby when Han is killed.
Shit.
I'm already picturing Kylo unmasking and walking up to Han as if to hug him before igniting the saber in his chest. Then tosses his body into chasm.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, people are wondering why the mask is off and I'm betting he takes it off to face his dad. Takes it off SPECIFICALLY to tell his dad he denies that parentage.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know if he looks "on death's door." We can't even see his face. We can see Daisy's, but that face isn't necessarily reflective of his condition as much as it is hers. But he could be. Luke looked pretty fucked up after fighting Vader in Empire.
And Empire was "the dark one" for a very long time - but it was also the funniest one (and still is) - so I think it's still possible this is going to be a pretty emotionally balanced film. Amplified as hell - but balanced.
CreepingFear
Member
What if Finn's injuries cause him to become more machine than man? Maybe he'll be a good version of Vader?