rodrigolfp
Gamepads 4 Life
Voted everything but the bad camera. Camera is ok. And at least lame ass lock on for baddies is optional...
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What you don't like about "Souls-like combat"?
- Thread starter .Pennywise
- Start date
kyussman
Member
I've only played Dark Souls,Bloodborne and Dark Souls III but I enjoyed the combat in all of them.....can't say I had any real issues.I'm over these types of games at this point but I'm glad they are having so much success in a world of shitty open world trash and GAAS nonsense.
.Pennywise
Member
oji-san
Member
I'm bad at them, the combat is just too difficult to me, and then there's no checkpoint system or manual saving, so the whole level again. Tried Wo Long and can't enjoy anything about it, even the none stoppable menus annoys me, gave a fair share of Souls game a try and never could get anywhere far then 1-2 hours, will buy Elden Ring when it's 10 buck just to say myself i tried.
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
I just want a souls combat game that’s more like ghost of Tsushima in its structure. None of those leveling stats. Not losing stuff and going to get it back. Etc. A normal mission and side mission open world game with souls combat.
March Climber
Member
I checked the 4 that felt the most true:
-The unbalanced nature of the games is a gift and a curse. If you happen to spec right, you're having a blast and you are experiencing the best version of the game. For that person, it's a 10/10 experience. If you spec wrong however, you have to then either try and power through it with a +15 worthless weapon, or grind to get the materials to +15 a weapon from the wiki list that everyone else deemed as the best ones to have.
-The bad camera is mostly true and is a key problem of the genre. There are still very few 3D soulslikes that fully fix this problem and one of the few that do is a third person shooter(Remnant: From the Ashes), but it has the benefit of being a shooter.
-Speaking of Remnant, it's also one of the few games that managed to get ranged combat right, but that's due to the enemy AI behavior that will flank you, shoot back, and have swarms that rush you down if needed. This type of design can't work in other souls games, so at this point I think that the ranged combat is built poorly in other soulslikes, because the devs don't want to bother trying to balance around that and they don't want their own experience to be too easy either.
Bloodborne is a top 3 all time game for me, but even I can admit that the guns(especially the longer barrel ones) not having a range of more than a few feet in front of you, was very silly to look at. Somehow, for that game, it just works
-The unbalanced nature of the games is a gift and a curse. If you happen to spec right, you're having a blast and you are experiencing the best version of the game. For that person, it's a 10/10 experience. If you spec wrong however, you have to then either try and power through it with a +15 worthless weapon, or grind to get the materials to +15 a weapon from the wiki list that everyone else deemed as the best ones to have.
-The bad camera is mostly true and is a key problem of the genre. There are still very few 3D soulslikes that fully fix this problem and one of the few that do is a third person shooter(Remnant: From the Ashes), but it has the benefit of being a shooter.
-Speaking of Remnant, it's also one of the few games that managed to get ranged combat right, but that's due to the enemy AI behavior that will flank you, shoot back, and have swarms that rush you down if needed. This type of design can't work in other souls games, so at this point I think that the ranged combat is built poorly in other soulslikes, because the devs don't want to bother trying to balance around that and they don't want their own experience to be too easy either.
Bloodborne is a top 3 all time game for me, but even I can admit that the guns(especially the longer barrel ones) not having a range of more than a few feet in front of you, was very silly to look at. Somehow, for that game, it just works
Finally, this is also true. The best usual option for 1v3 fights in soulslikes is to run backwards into the most hallway-esque room so that the enemies can line up, which is essentially finding a way to cheese a system that is inherently flawed. Also in the case of a dual boss fight, you're hoping and praying that the big guy to your right side that's off camera, isn't charging up some one hit kill animation while you're busy fighting the speedy guy.
PlayerPurple
Member
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Bad camera in enclosed spaces, limited by stamina/MP when enemies/bosses don't have this problem, stiff methodical combat for every fight, ridiculous hitboxes, would rather play the game rather then Soul grind to get stronger.
TheUsual
Member
The offensive nature of BB's combat plus the mechanic of gaining some health back briefly after getting hit is a great change on the formula.
.Pennywise
Member
Weird that you find the camera being the most ok of it, since it's one of the worse ofenders lol
begotten
Member
Soulsborne games remind me of why I like Mega Man games.
You know what game-play loop you're getting with the traversal, small iterations and boss re-skins - so the games are fun, familiar & cozy.
There's nothing I love or hate about the games tho' apart from the "hardcore" fans who exaggerate the difficulty and story-telling.
You know what game-play loop you're getting with the traversal, small iterations and boss re-skins - so the games are fun, familiar & cozy.
There's nothing I love or hate about the games tho' apart from the "hardcore" fans who exaggerate the difficulty and story-telling.
rodrigolfp
Gamepads 4 Life
I don't remember having a cheap death because of camera.
MikeM
Member
Other for me.
Demon Souls doesn’t seem to have checkpoints. As someone with finite gaming time, the idea of slogging through an entire level again at death is not appealing in the slightest.
Could also be that there is a check point system and I had no idea how it worked or even existed.
Demon Souls doesn’t seem to have checkpoints. As someone with finite gaming time, the idea of slogging through an entire level again at death is not appealing in the slightest.
Could also be that there is a check point system and I had no idea how it worked or even existed.
What i don't like is more about the influence it has on both action and RPG genres, rather than the combat itself. I think it has all the stigmas of modern gaming where a game must be everything all at once. I think because of that now every RPG must be an action game and every action game must be an RPG.
And if we talk about the Souls game themselves, i guess that's both the best and the worst quality they have.
And if we talk about the Souls game themselves, i guess that's both the best and the worst quality they have.
Paltheos
Member
Wonky hit/hurtboxes and uneven difficulty curves and unfun game mechanics.
The first is especially apparent in grabs in this series. Dark Souls 2 is pretty famous for this I think in terms of size, and DS3 has some 1-frame "I turned 180 degrees instantly fuck you" grabs too. Hitboxes for regular attacks being inconsistent is a problem throughout the series though. Watchdog of the Old Lords from Bloodborne has a swift lunge-bite that hasn't seemed entirely consistent to me (based on my own experience and moreso from side-side video footage from others I've seen).
Uneven difficulty curves and unfun game mechanics mostly relates to bosses and Elden Ring's probably the worst in this regard. Some bosses' startups on attacks are so fast they push the limits of human reaction speed (Godrick's tornado spin) and - the shit that really grinds my gears - button-prompt reactions from bosses that only sometimes go off and where guessing wrong as to how the boss acts next can land you in serious trouble. Margit, the very first boss of the game, has some followups that he only uses if you're attacking him during his string but he doesn't *always* use it, and if you choose to dodge and he doesn't use the FU, he'll have enough time to start his next attack string and probably hit you as you're recovering. Or maybe I just suck. I'd played all these games though and none of the first bosses had pissed me off like he did (I'd grinded for him too!)
The first is especially apparent in grabs in this series. Dark Souls 2 is pretty famous for this I think in terms of size, and DS3 has some 1-frame "I turned 180 degrees instantly fuck you" grabs too. Hitboxes for regular attacks being inconsistent is a problem throughout the series though. Watchdog of the Old Lords from Bloodborne has a swift lunge-bite that hasn't seemed entirely consistent to me (based on my own experience and moreso from side-side video footage from others I've seen).
Uneven difficulty curves and unfun game mechanics mostly relates to bosses and Elden Ring's probably the worst in this regard. Some bosses' startups on attacks are so fast they push the limits of human reaction speed (Godrick's tornado spin) and - the shit that really grinds my gears - button-prompt reactions from bosses that only sometimes go off and where guessing wrong as to how the boss acts next can land you in serious trouble. Margit, the very first boss of the game, has some followups that he only uses if you're attacking him during his string but he doesn't *always* use it, and if you choose to dodge and he doesn't use the FU, he'll have enough time to start his next attack string and probably hit you as you're recovering. Or maybe I just suck. I'd played all these games though and none of the first bosses had pissed me off like he did (I'd grinded for him too!)
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I think parrying feels great, but at my old age it’s just hard to pull off at times.
They should have an old man mode.
They should have an old man mode.
Souls is the only series that I like 'souls-like' combat in. Other games that try to mimic it make the games slow, clunky and they don't really seem to get the difficulty right, so it's just frustrating and not fun. Tunic is one such example where I hated the 'souls' inspiration. Beautiful game, but the combat made me stop playing.
GymWolf
Member
All the thinsg i said apply to bb aswell, hell bb could be one of the very worse when it comes to shitty camera and absurd weapons compenentrations, you literally don't have to go further than the first 2 bosses to test that.
First boss is a nightmare when he is close to you on that fucking small bridge and you can see a zoom of his hairy bulge in your face, and gascoigne hits you (and you hit him) throught fucking trees and tombstones (except the famous spot where you can cheese him)
Maybe you were talking about other people but some flaws are present in every from soft game.
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Antwix
Member
This is probably the only thing I dislike (aside from the camera sometimes on bigger bosses). The fact that an enemy can swing some huge ass scythe/axe/sword in a tight corridor while you clang and bounce off the walls is infuriating haha
Drizzlehell
Member
Weird hit detection and some enemy attacks sort of homing in on you when you dodge just a couple of frames of animation too late. Feels so fucking cheap. I think it was mostly a problem with Dark Souls 2.
ComputerBlue
Member
I’m not going to vote because none of those things bother me, what does though is enemies can clip through walls and shit and hit you in Souls games.
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ValiantTraveler
Member
Every option in this poll is a valid criticism and should be improved in future games.
I experience each of these issues every now and then, but thankfully not often enough to make me dislike the combat overall.
It would be nice if blocking attacks was more viable against bosses, when you put up your shield most of the time the boss' attack depletes all of your stamina, leaving you open. So you have to dodge everything.
I experience each of these issues every now and then, but thankfully not often enough to make me dislike the combat overall.
It would be nice if blocking attacks was more viable against bosses, when you put up your shield most of the time the boss' attack depletes all of your stamina, leaving you open. So you have to dodge everything.
Nickolaidas
Member
There are literally people who kill the Fume Knight in DS II when they are level one. ONE.
It's all about being good in those games.
March Climber
Member
Souls fans say this often, but it is simply not a good rebuttal. The issue here is that I'm discussing averages. The average person playing souls games simply won't be good enough to solo a boss as a level one with a beginner sword while their character is in underwear. That is reserved for people with insane memorization, speedrunners, and sweatlords. The rest who are just good enough to beat the game, have a higher likelihood to experience what I've discussed.
Considering this, my point still stands.
Nickolaidas
Member
I get what you're saying, but I think the average person can't play Souls games *well*, period. They're hard games and demand concentration, fast reflexes and strategy. Most average gamers have all the above dilluted due to hand-holding, health regen after five seconds, respawn points taking them five seconds before they died, etc.
If FROM wanted to make a game that asks more of the player, that doesn't make the gameplay lacking.
That said, single player offline mode not having a pause button is totally unnecessary, imo
Rhazkul
Member
It gets very repetitive if you focus on a single weapon for a playthrough (which is the only optimal way, you will otherwise hit a brickwall if you don't focus on a single stat+weapon). Combat boils down to: dodge/parry, Light Attack, Light Attack, dodge, Heavy Attack....for 30 hours or so. Yawn. And Magic-type builds suck ass in Dark Souls & Co simply because lack of AoE.
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lyan
Member
People always find ways to finish games in unintended ways, this doesn't imply anything lol.
With enough research you can even beat a lot of turn based rpgs without any leveling while many will rant about grinding in those games, it's about the general experience.
March Climber
Member
What you’re discussing and what I’m discussing are becoming two different things. Your post is implying that I’m approaching this from the general angle of “souls games are too difficult” but that’s not what I’m discussing at all.
I’m talking about two specific issues:
1)Being soft-locked into a set of weapons, stat builds, or armor deemed as “the best for end game” as an average souls player.
There are certain bosses which become monumentally harder if these players haven’t specced correctly and end up with mediocre weapons and mediocre armor in terms of stats and ability late game(such as if they can’t stagger or handle stagger, or cause/deny bleeding, poison, etc). It is a light funnel that exists, and we should stop pretending it doesn’t just because a select few can beat the games without it.
2)The game forcing you down certain builds, as an average souls player, by having the same enemy types and bosses suddenly hit for 3x to 5x damage late game(mainly an Elden Ring and DS2 issue), instead of continuing an exponential ramp, creating more unique moments, and making the combat scenarios themselves more creative instead of just the environments.
Fighting a dragon who can kill you in 3-5 hits earlier in the game and then suddenly fighting the same model/type of dragon later on who now kills you in 1 hit doesn’t make you suddenly appreciate the game more because this is a new engaging moment. Instead, it just means that the numbers for that mob were annoyingly cranked up to the point where you either have to A) Grind B) Make zero mistakes or C) Find a way to cheese. This isn’t balancing, yet it keeps being excused.
Asking more from a player should be making creative combat situations that the player has to navigate around, not cranking up damage numbers to the point where they hit a wall and have no choice but to be very selective about their builds.
In ANY other game you guys would drag it through the coals for doing this, and even as a souls fan I can see this as a glaring flaw, and yet a lot of the rest of you cannot or will not allow yourself to see this type of flaw, and instead will defend it to death because of some benign fear of it being taken away in the future because of complaints. Now that it is solidified that Souls isn’t going away anytime soon and From Software is Namco’s new golden child multimillion seller, I think it’s fine to point out these flaws as fans.
There is a reason why people consider Bloodborne and Sekiro as superior games. Honestly, I agree with them. They are more balanced, more creative, and are more memorable experiences due to those creative factors and more. Again, Elden Ring would have literally beaten Bloodborne for me in personal ranking if it wasn’t for the last 20% of the game being such a drag(by last 20% I mean the two snow areas and much of what is after).
Nickolaidas
Member
I have yet to finish Elden Ring, so I cannot comment on that. However, both in Demon's Souls, Dark Souls and Dark Souls II - which I've beat - the game gives you ample of items and equipment which can help you balance or empower your character to overcome EVERYTHING. You didn't invest in making your character able to handle heavier loads and now can't effectively roll when wearing an armor heavy and sturdy enough to withstand the upcoming boss? Wear a ring that boosts your equipment load value and makes you able to roll. Low poison resistance? Wear this ring. The X opponent is weak to magic but you never made a magic build? Imbue a weapon with magic properties and fuck him up. Many opponents hit you with fire? Wear rings and armors with heavy fire resistance.
Many people think that Souls games are just well-timed rolls. They aren't. There is a great amount of customization options which can help you make your character better suited to handle a challenge.
Personally, in order to keep my character more easily versatile, I almost never raise an attribute much higher than the others. I try and have his stats equal, with only STR and DEX having 5 numbers higher than the other stats.
To this day, this tactic never failed me in PvE situations, and I can still hold my ground relatively well in PvP until I stumble upon a VERY well-planned power-gamer.
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GymWolf
Member
Remnant was such a good game yeah.I checked the 4 that felt the most true:
-The unbalanced nature of the games is a gift and a curse. If you happen to spec right, you're having a blast and you are experiencing the best version of the game. For that person, it's a 10/10 experience. If you spec wrong however, you have to then either try and power through it with a +15 worthless weapon, or grind to get the materials to +15 a weapon from the wiki list that everyone else deemed as the best ones to have.
-The bad camera is mostly true and is a key problem of the genre. There are still very few 3D soulslikes that fully fix this problem and one of the few that do is a third person shooter(Remnant: From the Ashes), but it has the benefit of being a shooter.
-Speaking of Remnant, it's also one of the few games that managed to get ranged combat right, but that's due to the enemy AI behavior that will flank you, shoot back, and have swarms that rush you down if needed. This type of design can't work in other souls games, so at this point I think that the ranged combat is built poorly in other soulslikes, because the devs don't want to bother trying to balance around that and they don't want their own experience to be too easy either.
Bloodborne is a top 3 all time game for me, but even I can admit that the guns(especially the longer barrel ones) not having a range of more than a few feet in front of you, was very silly to look at. Somehow, for that game, it just works
Finally, this is also true. The best usual option for 1v3 fights in soulslikes is to run backwards into the most hallway-esque room so that the enemies can line up, which is essentially finding a way to cheese a system that is inherently flawed. Also in the case of a dual boss fight, you're hoping and praying that the big guy to your right side that's off camera, isn't charging up some one hit kill animation while you're busy fighting the speedy guy.
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
I love the situations of multiple enemies in the world, crowd control, surviving in a hostile terrain against foes... the part I enjoy least is the actual boss battles where you have no room to maneuver.
Jigsaah
Member
Other. I don't like that they eventually let you teleport to whatever bonfire you wanted. I appreciated having to learn the map without having a map in Dark Souls 1.
I also don't like the bell maiden in Bloodborne and the choice for pvp in Elden Ring without consequence. Yes you could opt out of PVP in Dark Souls by staying undead/hollow, but it came at a cost of lower health/ item discovery.
I also don't like the netcode not improving over the course of 5 games.
I also don't like repeated bosses in Elden Ring.
I also hated chalice Dungeons in Bloodborne needs to get certain specced weapons
I hated the lack of build variety in Bloodborne.
I hated Dark Souls 2...period.
I also don't like the bell maiden in Bloodborne and the choice for pvp in Elden Ring without consequence. Yes you could opt out of PVP in Dark Souls by staying undead/hollow, but it came at a cost of lower health/ item discovery.
I also don't like the netcode not improving over the course of 5 games.
I also don't like repeated bosses in Elden Ring.
I also hated chalice Dungeons in Bloodborne needs to get certain specced weapons
I hated the lack of build variety in Bloodborne.
I hated Dark Souls 2...period.
Nickolaidas
Member
I think that being hollow still allowed players to invade you. Not 100% sure on Dark Souls, but in Dark Souls II, hollow means nothing, in terms of invasion.
Demon's Souls, yes, absolutely. Soul form = no invasions, but no help from players either.
Jigsaah
Member
Im pretty sure I got thru the Cat forest in Dark Souls 1 by staying dead. At least in the early days of the game, you could not step foot in that forest while alive and not get invaded 2 or 3 times by players from that covenant. Same thing happens in Dark Souls 3. I'm not 100% on Dark souls 2. In all cases you could invite people to invade via the red soap sign, though I don't believe red signs were available in DS1.
kvltus lvlzvs
Member
I wish I could but sadly I do not have a ps4
bloodborne is the thing that makes me the most sad about being a pc gamer.
farmerboy
Member
Have only played Demons Souls and really enjoyed it. Will play Bloodborne at some point, would love a patch. The combat is its own thing and its enjoyable. I enjoy the methodical nature of it.
In saying that, I enjoyed the Berserker King and Gna fights in GOW more. The spectacle, the mechanics, the feeling of brute force, the speed. Its insane.
In saying that, I enjoyed the Berserker King and Gna fights in GOW more. The spectacle, the mechanics, the feeling of brute force, the speed. Its insane.