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Will MS overtake Sony in North America now?

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AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Zomg PS4 dropped to #9.

PS4 is deaaaaaaaaaaaaad

Sony is dooooooooomed

OT: Give it some time. While preorders are a decent way to gauge interest for a product, all we have now is the $500 Kinect bundle that retailers need to sell, when stock of that runs dry and they start pining for Kinect-less editions, then we can get a better estimate of how well the price drop has worked.

The PS4 always gets pushed down when there are new games that push up in the top five (or some PC game goes on sale for a few bucks), the list is relative, not absolute. The Kinectless SKU made it to around #50 and dropped from there. Where is the demand? The TF bundle went to #1 the day of the listing...
 

Chitown B

Member
I only play digital games if they're very cheap, to the point that resell wouldn't bother me at all, so I do have a bunch of stuff on PC that's digital. Dark Souls 2 and Watch Dogs have both cost me just under £20. The amount saved more than makes up for the lack of resell value, so i'm ok with that. £55 for a game I'll be done with in a week though and can't resell though? No chance in hell I'm paying that.

And with regards to redownloading them, what happens when XB2 doesn't do backwards compatibilty, or they turn the servers off?

I have a ton of XBLA and downloaded Xbox 360 games. So?

It's the same as Steam, like you said. And if it's not BWC you can keep your X1, same as you need to keep your 360 or PS3.
 

King_Moc

Banned
True.

Look, I have no problem with people being pissed at policies MS used to have. But they are trying to change to fit the customer desires. Instead of Sony fanboys berating them and mocking them, we should be happy a company is willing to change to fit the mass consumer's wishes.

They've made it clear that they didn't want to change and that they felt the customer was wrong. I've no confidence that they won't go back to their old policies in the future and have no interest in going back the the Xbox ecosystem if that's what they'll be doing to it in the future.
 

Chitown B

Member
The PS4 always gets pushed down when there are new games that push up in the top five (or some PC game goes on sale for a few bucks), the list is relative, not absolute. The Kinectless SKU made it to around #50 and dropped from there. Where is the demand? The TF bundle went to #1 the day of the listing...

wait, I thought no one wanted the TF bundle.
 

Chitown B

Member
They've made it clear that they didn't want to change and that they felt the customer was wrong. I've no confidence that they won't go back to their old policies in the future and have no interest in going back the the Xbox ecosystem if that's what they'll be doing to it in the future.

when did they make it clear? When they hadn't even shown the consumer the system or features? No feedback was had before that, and then they got feedback and changed.
 

King_Moc

Banned
I have a ton of XBLA and downloaded Xbox 360 games. So?

It's the same as Steam, like you said. And if it's not BWC you can keep your X1, same as you need to keep your 360 or PS3.

XBLA stuff I'm ok with, as it's cheap. The horribly overpriced full retail games is what I'm talking about. That's where MS intends to take us. £55 for every game with no resale value. It's not so bad when it's just there as an option for idiots, or people to whom money is no object, but if that was the only way you could get games, I'd be saying bye-bye to console gaming.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Nope, as Sony proved last gen, screwing up that bad at launch means you're playing catchup for most of the generation. The brand loyalty is gone. PS4 is what 'my friends have' which is how Xbox had such a strong grip last gen.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
wait, I thought no one wanted the TF bundle.

It's all relative, it just takes several thousand orders for a few hours and something will be #1, apparently that isn't true for a $399 XB1.

The sad part? These are pre-orders with no commitment or money changing hands. People don't even want to fake buy it..
 

Chitown B

Member
XBLA stuff I'm ok with, as it's cheap. The horribly overpriced full retail games is what I'm talking about. That's where MS intends to take us. £55 for every game with no resale value. It's not so bad when it's just there as an option for idiots, or people to whom money is no object, but if that was the only way you could get games, I'd be saying bye-bye to console gaming.

If you're paying 55 pounds for a digital game, you need to bitch about that. Because that's like $90 US, and we pay $60.

I have a bunch of Xbox downloads that cost around $5-25.
 

a916

Member
If they had Halo 5 to go this christmas, I'd say that and Titanfall are enough to to close the gap to about even.

No offense to Order 1886 and Driveclub, but they don't match up at all with a sales juggernaut like Halo.

No Halo 5 means MS doesn't have that big holiday exclusive either.
 

Chitown B

Member
It's all relative, it just takes several thousand orders for a few hours and something will be #1, apparently that isn't true for a $399 XB1.

The sad art? These are pre-orders with no commitment or money changing hands. People don't even want to fake buy it..

People knew about Titanfall and were waiting for it for at least a year before that. The new pricing was only known about if you were paying attention that day AND didn't already have an X1 but yet cared enough about gaming that it made you need one just for $100 discount.
 

Chitown B

Member
If they had Halo 5 to go this christmas, I'd say that and Titanfall are enough to to close the gap to about even.

No offense to Order 1886 and Driveclub, but they don't match up at all with a sales juggernaut like Halo.

No Halo 5 means MS doesn't have that big holiday exclusive either.

I'm hoping there's more for PS4 this year than just The Order - which I do want to play, but that's the first exclusive I care about.
 
If they had Halo 5 to go this christmas, I'd say that and Titanfall are enough to to close the gap to about even.

No offense to Order 1886 and Driveclub, but they don't match up at all with a sales juggernaut like Halo.

No Halo 5 means MS doesn't have that big holiday exclusive either.

I'm sure Titanfall was much more of a sales juggernaut than Infamous SS and yet XB1 was outsold the month it came out. Whats not to say the same thing happens with Halo 5 (which is for 2015) and especially since the holidays cause massive inflation in sales.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
People knew about Titanfall and were waiting for it for at least a year before that. The new pricing was only know about if you were paying attention that day.

People didn't know about a bundle for a year. Are you suggesting people will recognize the TF name before they recognize a $399 price tag? Your theory is wrong anyhow, the spreading of the $399 news isn't driving pre-orders up, it peaked the day it was announce (it was all over the net, even the WSJ) and has dropped since. It stabilized around #180-200.

No doubt the sales rank will go up the day of release, but the pre-order rank is very telling.
 

quetz67

Banned
They've made it clear that they didn't want to change and that they felt the customer was wrong. I've no confidence that they won't go back to their old policies in the future and have no interest in going back the the Xbox ecosystem if that's what they'll be doing to it in the future.

.

And the complete 180 on Kinect message doesn't help to build consumer trust.
 

TomShoe

Banned
If they had Halo 5 to go this christmas, I'd say that and Titanfall are enough to to close the gap to about even.

No offense to Order 1886 and Driveclub, but they don't match up at all with a sales juggernaut like Halo.

No Halo 5 means MS doesn't have that big holiday exclusive either.

Halo 5's not happening until Fall 2015, unfortunately. I expect something to fill the gap like Halo 2 Anniversary or that Master Chief Edition that was rumoured.

Currently Sony has DriveClub and Uncharted (possibly) for Fall 2014.
 

wapplew

Member
I can see xbone catch up in the US. Won't happen for a while though.

Yup, it will take time. PS4 might keep leading the sales up to September.
Holiday sale depend on what they are going to show at E3 and what line up they got.
The gap is not crazy, some say 500k now, let's say it become 800k by September. Xbox need to out sold PS4 by 100k for 8 months to take over.
Assuming Xbox one have better offering than PS4 for holiday up until May 2015, and Sony didn't react accordingly.
Its possible.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Halo 5's not happening until Fall 2015, unfortunately. I expect something to fill the gap like Halo 2 Anniversary or that Master Chief Edition that was rumoured.

Currently Sony has DriveClub and Uncharted (possibly) for Fall 2014.

Uncharted is 2015. 1886 is fall 2014. They have a lot more than that, they have all the MP games, remastered TLoU and they have momentum. How many people who drool over a ten year old FPS are not already in the XB1 camp? You guys tend to count your chickens twice.
 
we can speculate all we want but until the system is parity in pricing in June and the public catches on to the price drop, it's hard to compare apples to oranges pricing sales.

It's been cheaper than PS4 here in the UK for the last eight weeks, Titanfall was given away along with a £50 price drop and it still hasn't shifted in decent numbers.

I don't see how a 'price drop' that's - actually worse than the deal offered over the last two months - is going to make a jot of difference over here.

Do you own iPhone games though? You will always be able to redownload them and always have access to them. But you can't resell them.

But you should be able to sell them. Also, most of those games can be had for pennies.
 

a916

Member
I'm sure Titanfall was much more of a sales juggernaut than Infamous SS and yet XB1 was outsold the month it came out. Whats not to say the same thing happens with Halo 5 (which is for 2015) and especially since the holidays cause massive inflation in sales.

Yeah, and that's the surprising thing. I honestly thought Titanfall was enough to at least post a temporary lead in sales for XBO.

Halo 5's not happening until Fall 2015, unfortunately. I expect something to fill the gap like Halo 2 Anniversary or that Master Chief Edition that was rumoured.

Currently Sony has DriveClub and Uncharted (possibly) for Fall 2014.

I don't think the Halo 1 remake never sold nearly as much as any of the original Halos. Which really sucks for MS because it probably would've been a great time to launch it.
 

Jack cw

Member
Assuming Xbox one have better offering than PS4 for holiday up until May 2015, and Sony didn't react accordingly.
Its possible.
Assuming ps4 stopps selling then yes. You guys all seem to forget that and the fact that the playstation brand is on fire.
 
Yup, it will take time. PS4 might keep leading the sales up to September.
Holiday sale depend on what they are going to show at E3 and what line up they got.
The gap is not crazy, some say 500k now, let's say it become 800k by September. Xbox need to out sold PS4 by 100k for 8 months to take over.
Assuming Xbox one have better offering than PS4 for holiday up until May 2015, and Sony didn't react accordingly.
Its possible.

But it's not. Like another poster said, assuming PS4 averages 200k a month from now on (conservative estimates), XBO has to sell at least 300k for the next 12 or so months to simply close the game (guessing here, but it's in the ballpark). That's Wii-level performance. Neither console is going to have that selling power, but most especially the XBO lacks that capability. There are many reasons for that and price is only one of them.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
How many people who drool over a ten year old FPS are not already in the XB1 camp? You guys tend to count your chickens twice.

Lots since Titanfall sold so much in 360 in the US given it was number one in the NPD IN april, but Infamous was the best selling next gen game despite bit being in the overall top ten.

So a lot of US shooter game fans have stuck with 360 so far and are probably more likely to go X1 when they do upgrade. They're in the camp but waiting for a true next gen CoD or Halo etc to drop the $400-500 since most if their friends are still gaming online in 360. It's harder for that crowd to early adopt as the want to keep playing online with their same group of friends. The X1 should have had a Halo at launch to speed up adoption. New IP like Titanfall just doesn't have the same system selling power as established brands.
 

Salex_

Member
Uncharted is 2015. 1886 is fall 2014. They have a lot more than that, they have all the MP games, remastered TLoU and they have momentum. How many people who drool over a ten year old FPS are not already in the XB1 camp? You guys tend to count your chickens twice.
Uncharted isn't confirmed to be 2015. In fact, Naughty Dog went out of their way to clear up that misconception of a 2015 release date from that blog post. It's been 3 years since Uncharted 3 and no one knows what the current status is. A bunch of people have said the game will be at E3 though, so we'll know what happens there. Quantum Break is another title in the same situation.

Confirmed 2014 PS4 games so far:
Driveclub
The Order
Lily Bergamo
Guilty Gear Xrd

Other titles such as Deep Down, Rime, and Uncharted are still unknown.
Unannounced games?

Huh?
 
Uncharted isn't confirmed to be 2015. In fact, Naughty Dog went out of their way to clear up that misconception of a 2015 release date from the blog post. It's been 3 years since Uncharted 3 and no one knows what the current status is. A bunch of people have said the game will be at E3 though, so we'll know what happens there. Quantum is another title in the same situation.

Confirmed 2014 PS4 games so far:
Driveclub
The Order
Lily Bergamo
Guilty Gear Xrd

Other titles such as Deep Down, Rime, and Uncharted are still unknown.

Unannounced games?
 

quetz67

Banned
The only thing MS has going for them now that they can start a price war from the same position. So how long until we'll see game bundles at $349?
 

wapplew

Member
Lots since Titanfall sold so much in 360 in the US given it was number one in the NPD IN april, but Infamous was the best selling next gen game despite bit being in the overall top ten.

So a lot of US shooter game fans have stuck with 360 so far and are probably more likely to go X1 when they do upgrade. They're in the camp but waiting for a true next gen CoD or Halo etc to drop the $400-500 since most if their friends are still gaming online in 360. It's harder for that crowd to early adopt as the want to keep playing online with their same group of friends. The X1 should have had a Halo at launch to speed up adoption. New IP like Titanfall just doesn't have the same system selling power as established brands.

Never underestimate the numbers of satisfy 360 owners on the fence because of the price.
According to Yusuf, PS4 selling better because PS user jump to next gen earlier, while 360 user still waiting because of the price and wait for halo/gear.
You just wait.
 
People knew about Titanfall and were waiting for it for at least a year before that. The new pricing was only known about if you were paying attention that day AND didn't already have an X1 but yet cared enough about gaming that it made you need one just for $100 discount.

It shows also that there isn't really any significant number of people who wanted an XB1 (the type of people who would have known about this price-drop announcement first) but were just waiting for a price cut as they deemed it too expensive currently.

The unfortunate thing about the price-cut is the timing of it. Again, it is a little MS shooting themselves in the foot for the umpteenth time.

June is not a good time for a price cut because it is a slow sales month. It is even worse timing when there is no notable Xbone software coming in June or even the next few months.

What MS needed to be was really bold if they wanted to catch the PS4. A price-cut in March to co-incide with TF would have had a significant impact.

Instead they were overly bullish about the prospects and effect of TF on hardware sales. It didn't do anything on its own but would have in conjunction with a cut to the system price.

Now what they are left with is a price cut whose effect is likely to get lost in the slow months of June and July, where PS4 also has a stronger release line-up (if TLOU releases in June/July, which is likely).

Edit: Soz for the formatting of that, was written on phone.
 
Never underestimate the numbers of satisfy 360 owners on the fence because of the price.
According to Yusuf, PS4 selling better because PS user jump to next gen earlier, while 360 user still waiting because of the price and wait for halo/gear.
You just wait.

Isn't PS3 outselling 360 WW..lol
 

BeforeU

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
The only thing MS has going for them now that they can start a price war from the same position. So how long until we'll see game bundles at $349?

$349 is far away for both Sony and MS. I am pretty sure they will both sale game bundle during black Friday for 400$.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Decent chance of this happening since the Xbox is very competitive with games. So far sony's slate is good but lacks system sellers.

Games is subjective, so you can say that for yourself, but you can't easily apply that comment to the market at large. If MS *did* have more system sellers at the moment, they'd have sold more systems.
 

BeforeU

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Never underestimate the numbers of satisfy 360 owners on the fence because of the price.
According to Yusuf, PS4 selling better because PS user jump to next gen earlier, while 360 user still waiting because of the price and wait for halo/gear.
You just wait.

Sarcasm? I can not tell. Either way, not sure how much truth is in Yusuf's PR statement but they are heavily promoting 399$ Xbox One on Xbox 360 dashboard, along with changes to Gold.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
Never underestimate the numbers of satisfy 360 owners on the fence because of the price.
According to Yusuf, PS4 selling better because PS user jump to next gen earlier, while 360 user still waiting because of the price and wait for halo/gear.
You just wait.


I think the 360 user base is just more casual in the sense that there are a lot of people who own that and only play a couple games like CoD and Halo each year. That group is going to be slower to adopt than Sony fans as that console base has always appealed more to the hardcore with more Japanese games, fighting games etc.

That said, the Yusuf quote is silly as MS has lost a ton of support, even in the US. I think they'll wind up pulling ahead here over time as more exclusive shooters come out. But it will be a narrow win vs the dominance they had in the US with the 360. Which is still major loss for them.

Only thing that can change that is if Sony can finally make an exclusive shooter with anywhere near the appeal of Halo and Gears. As it will take something like that to get those fanboys to jump ship. Not mediocre stuff like Killzone or Resistance.

I hope they do. I dislike MS as a company and their fanbase is annoying as hell. But there are so many casual shooter game fans loyal to the MS games and CoD on Live that I have a hard time seeing them not eeking out a win in the US in the long haul even with all the missteps that have them off to a slow start. Even with all the screwups the gap here is 500k, not nearly as large as in Europe. They can overcome that if they avoid future missteps and keep marketing Live as the place to play shooters online. They need to do a great job with the Halo ports this fall and Halo 5 next year though. If those end up lackluster they're in trouble.
 

wapplew

Member
I think the 360 user base is just more casual in the sense that there are a lot of people who own that and only play a couple games like CoD and Halo each year. That group is going to be slower to adopt than Sony fans as that console base has always appealed more to the hardcore with more Japanese games, fighting games etc.

That said, the Yusuf quote is silly as MS has lost a ton of support, even in the US. I think they'll wind up pulling ahead here over time as more exclusive shooters come out. But it will be a narrow win vs the dominance they had in the US with the 360. Which is still major loss for them.

Only thing that can change that is if Sony can finally make an exclusive shooter with anywhere near the appeal of Halo and Gears. As it will take something like that to get those fanboys to jump ship. Not mediocre stuff like Killzone or Resistance.

I hope they do. I dislike MS as a company and their fanbase is annoying as hell. But there are so many casual shooter game fans loyal to the MS games and CoD on Live that I have a hard time seeing them not eeking out a win in the US in the long haul even with all the missteps that have them off to a slow start. Even with all the screwups the gap here is 500k, not nearly as large as in Europe. They can overcome that if they avoid future missteps and keep marketing Live as the place to play shooters online. They need to do a great job with the Halo ports this fall and Halo 5 next year though. If those end up lackluster they're in trouble.

I don't think Sony can make a FPS as big as Halo, But I think they are on the right track by securing Destiny market deal. It wouldn't be as good as an exclusive, but that's some smart decision.
And better version of multiplat might help a little. Battlefield 4 still have the most players on PS4 right?
 
Yup, it will take time. PS4 might keep leading the sales up to September.
Holiday sale depend on what they are going to show at E3 and what line up they got.
The gap is not crazy, some say 500k now, let's say it become 800k by September. Xbox need to out sold PS4 by 100k for 8 months to take over.
Assuming Xbox one have better offering than PS4 for holiday up until May 2015, and Sony didn't react accordingly.
Its possible.

I was thinking a while,meaning 2019, but hey with your enthusiasm I'm sure ms will catch up in no time. All these doom and gloom scenarios are tiresome, and your outlook is fresh and positive. Your posts are a breathe of fresh air.
 
I was thinking a while,meaning 2019, but hey with your enthusiasm I'm sure ms will catch up in no time. All these doom and gloom scenarios are tiresome, and your outlook is fresh and positive. Your posts are a breathe of fresh air.
I'm not sure if you meant it that way, but this reads like sarcasm.

What's that called, again? Poe's law?
 

Salex_

Member
I don't think Sony can make a FPS as big as Halo, But I think they are on the right track by securing Destiny market deal. It wouldn't be as good as an exclusive, but that's some smart decision.
And better version of multiplat might help a little. Battlefield 4 still have the most players on PS4 right?


Damn, MS really did lose it's rep as the go to system for fps.

It doesn't tell the full story. Xbox One FPS players are split between COD, Titanfall, and BF4. PS4 is KZ, COD, and BF4. I'm not sure if games like War Frame and Blacklight are overlapping with this audience.

I wonder what the player numbers are on PS4/Xbone for COD and how many players are playing Titanfall on Xbox One.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think Sony can make a FPS as big as Halo, But I think they are on the right track by securing Destiny market deal. It wouldn't be as good as an exclusive, but that's some smart decision.
And better version of multiplat might help a little. Battlefield 4 still have the most players on PS4 right?

Getting marketing for Destiny definitely helps. As can better versions of multiplats. On that front, CoD is really all that matters though. If they can get CoD running significantly better on PS4, that will be huge. Minor differences probably won't matter, especially if MS is still getting the map packs earlier as the serious players are always dying for mp ew maps.

I'm torn personally. On the one hand I dislike MS immensely as a company and would like to see Sony really steal their thunder, even in the US. On the other hand, competition is always good, and I wouldn't mind seeing more of the dude bro shooter game crowd stay on Live. :D
 



It doesn't tell the full story. Xbox One FPS players are split between COD, Titanfall, and BF4. PS4 is KZ, COD, and BF4. I'm not sure if games like War Frame and Blacklight are overlapping with this audience.

I wonder what the player numbers are on PS4/Xbone for COD and how many players are playing Titanfall on Xbox One.

Someone can probably provide them, but closer to launch someone provided numbers for COD on both and PS4 was still beating out the XB1 in that also(it should with almost, if not 2x install base). I've heard Titanfall player numbers fell off a cliff and most went back to BF4 or COD, but there isn't any way to know since they don't give numbers. There was a thread recently where Respawn are doing away with 2 game modes, because there aren't enough players though. That should be a hint.
 
Nope, as Sony proved last gen, screwing up that bad at launch means you're playing catchup for most of the generation. The brand loyalty is gone. PS4 is what 'my friends have' which is how Xbox had such a strong grip last gen.
Most of my friends (who only owns the Xbox 360 last generation) have PS4 now. Only my friend who's a Microsoft fan boy got the Xbox one.
 
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