what? It's been a faster seller than the 360.
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Will MS overtake Sony in North America now?
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what? It's been a faster seller than the 360.
BrokenIcarus
Member
Not year-to-date. It's been completely front loaded.
Mass Effect
Member
This is absolutely not true. PS2 > PS3 shows as much.
Initially, but sales have slowed considerably. Just because it was fast out of the gate does not mean that it will keep on-pace to outsell the 360. April's NPD numbers support this, as it only sold 115k. That's really bad and May's numbers are going to be even more dismal. The Wii U even might outsell it this month. There's a reason Microsoft finally just decided that they are going to drop the price this June, because if they didn't, sales would be abysmal until fall.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
PlayStation seemed to be the first video game brand to be subliminally marketed through music and shows/movies. It didn't start with the PS2, the PS1 was also everywhere.
Looks like ms lies are working.
Schweinehund
Member
Brand loyalty doesn't mean crap.
It's just a wet dream of fan boys.
(see: Wii -> Wii U sales, PS2 -> PS3 Sales)
It's just a wet dream of fan boys.
(see: Wii -> Wii U sales, PS2 -> PS3 Sales)
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Microsoft being so quick to react is also having a negative side effect: appearance of desperation. Casual consumers know how consoles tend to work; they start out expensive and over a period of years, not months, they gradually lower in price and those consumers eventually bite. Meanwhile the hardcore and core are the bulk of purchasers.
When casual consumers see a system dropping its price by $100 less than 8 months out of the gate, that goes against the traditional price reduction model the industry's used since forever. They aren't so much seeing a successful product as they are a failing product cutting price to try and get more people to bite. This is even more true since even casuals are likely aware of some of the going-ons btwn the two systems...they're certainly still under the impression XBO still does DRM and anti-used games. Those initial impressions are going to stay for a couple of years despite what MS does.
But back to the original point, consumers have access to information w/ social media now they never had before. When they see the price cuts, they're gonna probably do a quick check on the product and they'll inevitably come across the reason for the price cuts....that's where they'll find out the reasons aren't so rosy and it'll make that price look like an act of desperation instead of strength.
Wii U is like Wii+. It's not different enough.
If you're going to sit here and tell me PS2 fans don't own a PS3, then I'm going to have to call you a liar.
Sorry, I have to call bullshit on this theory that seems prevalent. Casuals are not watching E3. And that's where the presentation was. And it was quickly changed. So, if they're casual they wouldn't even notice it. And if they're not, then they would be up on the latest policies. You can't have it both ways. "well, they saw the policies at E3, but then they just stopped looking at gaming news". Huh?
Call me a liar.
The 360 and PS3's combined sales make up only about ten million more than the PS2's total. A lot of people switched to 360. A lot of GAFfers, probably, too.
Once again: Xbox One did NOT drop in price.
They added another SKU without Kinect for 399
The Version many of us bought is still available and still 499
iceatcs
Junior Member
Most of my casuals friend aware of the hardware strength when they were fuckhole about it on last gen. Pretty much everyone know that PS4 has better hardware. I dunno if they are owners but it surprised me that they know about that. I assume it must be BBC news or some advert/social media done the work.
I believe smartphone revolution made more people care about the technology and speed.
I believe smartphone revolution made more people care about the technology and speed.
or a lot of people didn't buy anything since they grew out of gaming (everyone had a PS2 because it was the best, and had a DVD player), or they bought both. I bought both (and a Wii)
RoninChaos
Member
Maybe. But I think MS has underestimated how much damage they did to their brand. Even seeing messages on the dashboard about live that say "you asked, we listened" and how things like Netflix won't be behind a paywall anymore. and that's bullshit. They didn't listen, it's because they're getting fucking curb stomped by Sony and they have to do this to stay even remotely competitive.
My biggest issue now is I just don't trust MS. Same way Sony fucked up last gen, MS fucked up this gen and they're going to be trying to right the ship for years.
My biggest issue now is I just don't trust MS. Same way Sony fucked up last gen, MS fucked up this gen and they're going to be trying to right the ship for years.
They don't watch E3.
They do read the news and see what their gaming friends say on Facebook. Social media and the instant availability of information made it spread like wildfire, as many of us have noticed for ourselves.
So you're saying fifty million people left the market completely, only to be succeeded by fifty million completely different new people? ... Really?
Unknown One
Member
I agree.
All of MS's actions seems reactionary to their sales. I wouldn't even say they listened. They only did those 180s because of the poor reaction from the market.
Are you saying a business shouldn't do that? Just take the losses and die?
Unknown One
Member
I'm saying that the 360 owners have been begging for the paywall to be taken down for years. Microsoft did not listen to them when they were on top in the U.S.
killatopak
Member
Sony built the PS4 as a reactionary device. This means they could drop the price very easily due to how the PS4 is built. MS will never out-price drop Sony this gen.
I'm not sure that they will overtake but they definitely chose the right time to do this. Now that most of the hardcore has bought their console of choice, both Sony and MS can fight for the casual and then remaining hardcore crowds on an evening playing field (as far as price goes).
wapplew
Member
I heard about DDR3 price went up crazy and GDDR5 price is dropping, you might be right.
RoninChaos
Member
Agreed. This is MS going "OH FUCK OH FUCK OH FUCK".
The Xbox One was designed in a board room, same with the PS3. MS thought they could get away with it, same way Sony did. They thought just because they had a consumer base currently, that same base would show up just because. Hell, Sony did that with the vita too. They thought just because they made the system that people would buy it and Devs would make games for it.
At least with the ps3 playing catchup for years and the vita being basically dead, it gave Sony a fucking heads up on how to act.
As for me, I prefer Xbox live, I prefer achievement points over trophies, and I like the UI on the Xbone. But I'll be god damned if I pay top dollar to a company for their product when they were SO VOCAL about how they wanted to fuck me as a consumer. And not just once, but repeatedly. Everything MS has done since has everything blew up in their faces has been saying "Look, we didn't mean what we said. We did this and this and this to make it better so let's be friends again" and I don't believe a fucking word they say. Not when this industry is so willing to treat it's paying customers like they're criminals while MS was willing to lead the charge. That makes them seem like scumbags, just like EA or Cliffy B. Ps4 is my main gaming platform this generation.
Unknown One
Member
That is indeed a huge problem in this industry. We as paying consumers are being treated as criminals, despite being paying customers. I feel like they are trying to justify DRM by using piracy as a scapegoat.
I think MS tried to force DRM down people's throats because it'll get them more money. If you cut out used game sales, people would have no choice but to buy new games. That will in turn get them more royalty for more new games being sold.
I think MS tried to force DRM down people's throats because it'll get them more money. If you cut out used game sales, people would have no choice but to buy new games. That will in turn get them more royalty for more new games being sold.
I think the Kinect added very little to the Xbox in overall consumer appeal and value. So, pulling it from the package won't hurt demand for the One. I don't think that Xbox sales will pick up a lot until November, and then I do expect it to outsell the PS4 on a month-by-month basis until after Christmas. Microsoft simply has a better mindshare in the United States and at an equal price level, well, there won't be anything to dissuade people from picking Xbox One over PS4. I figure the casual market will lean Xbox, thus giving Microsoft the advantage come shopping season.
D1STORT1ON
Neo Member
I agree with a lot that has been already said about reacting to sales and everything, but one thing that I think people underestimate is the RROD fiasco from last gen. I know I went through a bunch of 360's, from the refurbished "we've repaired your xbox" to brand new and I know I don't really trust their hardware anymore. I have no desire to go through all that crap again. I'm sure there are others who feel the same way, plus I think it inflated their sales numbers/userbase numbers.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
PS3 wasn't created in a boardroom, it was created in Mad Ken's garage on a mushroom and whiskey binge.
BoboBrazil
Member
Well they didn't even act like they didn't mean what they said. They still carried on after the 180s like we just didn't understand their vision. I'm amazed so many people can forgive them for the way they acted. I'm sure they will do the same thing again if they get the lead again.
travisbickle
Member
If Sony takes May by ~100,000 then it would take MS beating Sony by 100,000 every month till christmas to overtake. If on the other hand it continues in sony's favour, by 100k a month, that's over a million lead by Christmas.
It's definitely a case of don't blink for MS, they've been outsold in their best territory by half a million in only 6 months.
It's definitely a case of don't blink for MS, they've been outsold in their best territory by half a million in only 6 months.
Xbox One will probably be sub 100k in May, wouldn't be too hard for PS4 to beat it out by 100k.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Actually there are two worst; Arrogant Microsoft and Mafioso Pimp Nintendo.
C'mon now, you're just ignoring the obvious. It's effectively a price drop; they can word it as a new SKU all they want they wouldn't be wrong but it's a price drop in the eyes of someone who doesn't know any better. The average consumer will see it as a price drop.
Who said they were? They were watching Jimmy Fallon, where he uttered PS4 is "the one that does used games". They're watching the President name-slip PlayStation into a televised conference. They're watching Kim K. and Lebron James talk about and pose w/ PS4s. Also the negative XBO news got around...a lot. You could find it onYahoo's front page, on the NYT, HP, hell even Rachael Maddow called MS out on the DRM and used-game stuff.
Casuals were finding out the policies well before E3 and by your own admission, most weren't watching E3, so they didn't find out about the policy changes (which took, what, 3 weeks, maybe a month after E3 to happen?) until well after the fact, if at all.
If you accept that the digital check ins was actually going to happen, then you also have to accept their statement that you could share those digital games. Which balanced the field, IMO.
I'm not saying that they were or were not trying to kill the used game market - they very well could have been. Which could have been great for developers so they didn't lose money and could actually build even better games.
But either way, advancing tech isn't necessarily only doing it for one reason. That'd be like saying companies put out digital movies in order to kill DVDs. Why would they do that? Digital is because it's what people wanted. They wanted to watch anywhere without carrying physical media, and watch on their phones, etc.
I would imagine MS wanted to release a system without discs so they could sell directly, and not have to pay for Bluray licensing or deal with retail contracts. However, since we aren't there yet with the internet speeds for everyone, they were trying to do a hybrid of this.
I guarantee next gen, if there is one, will be digital only. You can quote me.
I was in the minority of people who liked their announcement. I wanted all digital (and I have it, still). I wanted digital game sharing, and I'm pissed because of the complaints that I can't have it. I'm using my X1 the same now as I would have if they kept with their original vision. I buy mostly new already, and I haven't bought a single disc for the X1 yet I own 10 games.
Not entirely true they could out price the ps4 but it would mean that would not make any money on the one for quite a while.
Even if they go digital there is still licensing on the file format generally so its not a huge savings there mostly it was about eliminating the second hand market. However with the cases as they are going in europe the gaming companies may be required to allow a digital second hand market or face large fines by the EU. I think the concept of the gamesharing did exist but I don't know what the restrictions on it would be since they never shared the full idea of it.
They are already profitable on PS4 with 1 game purchase... They can drop the price without too much of an adverse effect. And you've got to realize that we're already past launch by quite a few months, so the manufacturing cost has already dropped.
It's an uphill battle for MS now. WW they have no chance, and already it seems less and less likely that MS will regain their marketshare in America. I don't think it's impossible, but I doubt we'll see anything less than 60%/40% in Sony's favour in NA by the end of this gen. And the gap can easily grow if MS isn't firing on all cylinders.
BoboBrazil
Member
I think price drops will be possible faster on this generation than any other, due to the parts being used. I'm still of the belief of a $349 PS4 at e3, but we will see.
wapplew
Member
App store monopoly is what they want. Same with what they do with Windows 8.
They just want to follow Apple footstep.
Yea, this baffles me the most. At this point I'm not sure if fans of that company
have selective memory or are willfully ignorant. They perhaps didn't give a shit
to begin with.
That powerful allure of Halo.
No I mean MS would never make money if they try to undercut the ps4.
I could totally see Sony dropping the price in the US to keep the title of cheapest console.
I don't see the difference between digital games on a console, and apps on a phone. You can't sell apps on a phone, why should you be able to sell apps on a console?
RustyNails
Member
Damn. So Xbox One needs to sell roughly 300k+ units every month in order to overtake PS4 (if we assume that PS4 is selling on average 200k units (conservative estimate)). Basically it needs to perform at Wii levels. It looks insurmountable to me.
Do you really, really think that humans will be tied to a physical disc of media from here on out just because we can then re-sell them? Because no one has discs for phone games, and there's no outcry there.
I don't know ask the EU they are the ones deciding you should be able to.
I can't stand the PS3/XB1 and MS/Sony comparisons any longer.
PS3 was designed as a game console with a Bluray player like PS2 was designed as a game console with a DVD player. Marketing it as a Bluray player early was needed to sell some units at initial price at all (and it was not that different from early PS2).
Sony was arrogant, but it was just out of desperation because Cell and Bluray turned out too expensive, especially early (and MS forced them to launch when blue lasers where in low supply). Still PS3 was about games from the start and it recovered because 1st/2nd party studios delivered.
The cheaper SKUs and price drops in general were no 180, they were a deperate and successful move to sell the machine.
PS3 was designed as a game console with a Bluray player like PS2 was designed as a game console with a DVD player. Marketing it as a Bluray player early was needed to sell some units at initial price at all (and it was not that different from early PS2).
Sony was arrogant, but it was just out of desperation because Cell and Bluray turned out too expensive, especially early (and MS forced them to launch when blue lasers where in low supply). Still PS3 was about games from the start and it recovered because 1st/2nd party studios delivered.
The cheaper SKUs and price drops in general were no 180, they were a deperate and successful move to sell the machine.
PS4 won't sell any better with a $50 drop. $299 is the golden number, something PS3 didn't hit until 2009. This time PS4 will be $299 by holiday 2015 and it's going to absolutely dominate the market at that price.
TalentBurke
Member
This is exactly how I feel about the situation too. I owned a ps3 and Xbox 360 but mainly gamed on the 360. Planned on getting both consoles before they were announced and I couldn't believe what Microsoft tried to pull, still can't believe you have people out there defending the Xbox one or trying to justify that shit. I bought a PS4 and called it a day.
Honestly, Sony have got this gen. in the bag. All they have to do is lead or keep
parity with XB1 in NA, while their sales in Europe and Asia widens their total
sales.
Like a poster above said, XB1 would have to pull in Wii like sales to just get ahead.
I'll be sure to quote you. Anyone who thinks physical media will be dead in 5-7 years is crazy. Digital music sales only recently surpassed cd sales. Internet bandwidth caps exist for most people, and internet speeds are shit for a lot of people. Not a chance in hell.
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