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[speedpop]

I don't usually read sales theads much. However I just wanted to know why some people are so convinced the ps3 is dead in Japan and in some instances ''even the brand''. If they were dead would they not be selling much less software of popular franchises. As in if something was indeed dead wouldn't it's best be trending as good as the rest of software.

It's more got to do with what the DS and Wii are achieving in a video game market that was labeled as "dying" 2-3 years ago. Once the Nintendogs/Animal Crossing/NSMB musketeers hit on the DS, everything just went up and up and up. There was never a piece of software that stuck into the top 30 of Japanese sales for 1-2 years with 4 million sold thus far attached to it's name till the DS showed up. People are naturally expecting the same thing for Wii.. and Wii Sports/Wii Play (regardless of whether you condemn them to hell as non-games is of no consequence) are essentially continuing this tradition.

 

[legend166]

Well if you take out games are that "bound to sell" then you're left with nothing, on any system, anywhere around the world, ever.

I mean, sales of Gears of War? Bound to sell - had a massive marketing budget. Guess it doesn't count. Same for Lost Planet. Crackdown? Bound to sell, had a Halo 3 beta.

Hell, I guess we're headed for another market crash with these horrible sales.

 

[AniHawk]

What.? The wii at least over here and at almost any retailer you go to and advert you see is marketed as the ''Nintendo Wii'' same with the Ds. So exactly what reinvention have they been doing in terms of branding to get away from their nintendo name that sony needs to mimic. I don't claim to know a lot about anything but even that sounds stupid to me. Throw away a bran that so many people have grown up with an feel a bit reminicent about.? Thats what nintendo markets towards.

Any Wii commercial simply says "Wii." There is no "Nintendo Wii" in adverts. Even trailers such as the one for NiGHTS 2 says "exclusively for... Wii."

Nintendo DS is a bit different, but I wasn't talking about the handheld market. If I was, I'd make a point that it was "Game Boy," not "Nintendo," that was driven into peoples' heads. So much so that the DS was often called "Game Boy DS" by confused and uninformed parents for over a year after its release.

To answer your second question: They needed to run away from the whole "we're mimicking PS[insert number here]" like what Microsoft has been (more successfully) doing. Gamecube, Game Boy, and especially "Nintendo" itself sounded very video gamey, which is something they tried moving away from with their newer platforms. The name Wii was specifically chosen BECAUSE it didn't sound like a video game system, and it's been beneficial.

If this generation continues and the Playstation brand is a distant, distant second in the handheld wars and a distant second or possibly third in the console arena, Sony will need something else to bounce back from, since it's likely not too many people will care about "Playstation" going on 20 years after so many years of failure.

 

[Nolan.]

Well if you take out games are that "bound to sell" then you're left with nothing, on any system, anywhere around the world, ever.

I mean, sales of Gears of War? Bound to sell - had a massive marketing budget. Guess it doesn't count. Same for Lost Planet. Crackdown? Bound to sell, had a Halo 3 beta.

Hell, I guess we're headed for another market crash with these horrible sales.

Were you replying to me.? If you were I still don't get the correction.

 

[legend166]

So you guys are comparing a console recently put out to trends of a console thats not too long ago been more or less discontinued after 5 years.

Um, no?

We're comparing the sales of a console to the sales of another console at the exact same point in their life cycle.

Seems pretty fair to me.

I'll let someone else tear the rest of your post to shreds.

 

[Parl]

Nintendo games doesn't count.
Square Enix games doesn't count.
Mario games doesn't count.
RPGs doesn't count.
Tamagotchi doesn't count.
Non games doesn't count.
Ports doesn't count.
Remakes doesn't count.

Something I forgot?

Anime games. They're bound to sell.

Third parties are gonna have a hard time on Wii.

 

[Nolan.]

Um, no?

We're comparing the sales of a console to the sales of another console at the exact same point in their life cycle.

Seems pretty fair to me.

I'll let someone else tear the rest of your post to shreds.

I don't mind go ahead but you still didn't answer me. I asked you to please correct me. Be as brutal as you like but I like to know the correct thing so next time I know better.

 

[dude]

The Playstation brand will have been around 16 years or so when Sony announces the next system. I say get rid of Playstation and start completely fresh. Same name and controller for nearly two decades definitely won't fly.

With Microsoft and Sony going with more of a media center approach, I can see them changing the name from Playstation, and changing much of the focus of the system. They may actually benefit from this, entering a new market...

I don't really see it happening with their next console though, too soon I think.

 

[jj984jj]

Nintendo games doesn't count.
Square Enix games doesn't count.
Mario games doesn't count.
RPGs doesn't count.
Tamagotchi doesn't count.
Non games doesn't count.
Ports doesn't count.
Remakes doesn't count.

Something I forgot?

Sega's arcade games and Gyakuten Saiban, but who said DS third party sales are poor?

 

[Stop It]

Any Wii commercial simply says "Wii." There is no "Nintendo Wii" in adverts. Even trailers such as the one for NiGHTS 2 says "exclusively for... Wii."

Nintendo DS is a bit different, but I wasn't talking about the handheld market. If I was, I'd make a point that it was "Game Boy," not "Nintendo," that was driven into peoples' heads. So much so that the DS was often called "Game Boy DS" by confused and uninformed parents for over a year after its release.

To answer your second question: They needed to run away from the whole "we're mimicking PS[insert number here]" like what Microsoft has been (more successfully) doing. Gamecube, Game Boy, and especially "Nintendo" itself sounded very video gamey, which is something they tried moving away from with their newer platforms. The name Wii was specifically chosen BECAUSE it didn't sound like a video game system, and it's been beneficial.

If this generation continues and the Playstation brand is a distant, distant second in the handheld wars and a distant second or possibly third in the console arena, Sony will need something else to bounce back from, since it's likely not too many people will care about "Playstation" going on 20 years after so many years of failure.

QFT, Nintendo are playing on the console brands this gen, not the Nintendo name, whenever I see Wii and DS ads, 2 things stick in my mind, the "console sound" for Wii and DS at the start of every ad, and the console itself, actually come to think of it, in the UK, the DS ads now mention "Only on Nintendo DS" (They certainly didn't upon the release of DS IIRC) but the Wii ones state "Only on Wii" maybe Nintendo are becoming more confident in correlating DS to themselves.

 

[test_account]

Isnt that the same with PSP, PS2, PS3 and 360? I cant recall that i've heard i.e "for Microsoft Xbox 360" or "for Sony Playstation 2" in commercials, just "360" and "Playstation 2".

EDIT: I see now its talk about that Nintendo goes away from the Nintendo name i the console. How was it with Gamecube? Did they use "Nintendo Gamecube" or just "Gamecube"?

 

[AniHawk]

Isnt that the same with PSP, PS2, PS3 and 360? I cant recall that i've heard i.e "for Microsoft Xbox 360" or "for Sony Playstation 2" in commercials, just "360" and "Playstation 2".

You misunderstand what I'm saying here. Nintendo itself was a brand. Game Boy itself was a brand. Playstation itself is a brand.

 

[test_account]

You misunderstand what I'm saying here. Nintendo itself was a brand. Game Boy itself was a brand. Playstation itself is a brand.

But isnt Nintendo a universal brand for their systems/games? I mean, when people say "i'm going to play Nintendo", what systems do they think about?

 

[Tf53]

But isnt Nintendo a universal brand for their systems/games? I mean, when people say "i'm going to play Nintendo", what systems do they think about?

Used to be back in the day. Not anymore.

 

[Stormbringer]

No, he has a point. Dragon Quest Swords is apart of one of the very biggest franchises in Japan, so using its sales a barometre for how well third parties can sell on Wii is what's actually absurd.

Dragon Ball Z: Sparking! Neo (Bandai) - 157,784
Naruto Shippuuden: Gekitou Ninja Taisen EX (Takara Tomy) (2/22/07) - 97,123
One Piece Unlimited Adventure (Bandai) - 95,203
Resident Evil 4 Wii (Capcom) - 93,360

The top three are anime games, which are bound to sell, and RE4 is a good game, so its bound to sell.

So what you imply is that in fact, the true barometer that will determine the success of a third party game on Wii will simply be the one that tracks only games that are : NOT good, that are NOT published by a famous third party company, and that are NOT part of a popular video game or anime franchise ? Eh, in that case, following this reasoning why not narrowing down the selection a bit, and go for the best of the best ! I mean, we could say that the ULTIMATE measurement for the success of a third party on Wii would be the one that tracks only mediocre games from totally unknown companies that are based on an perfectly unpopular video game or anime franchise ! And if even one game meets these requirements and still sells 1 million copies, then we could all say that it's a success - probably a lucky one anyway. Otherwise, it would be a total flop, that would demonstrate that the third party curse on a Nintendo console is absolutely true.
Yep, sounds good to me.

 

[test_account]

Used to be back in the day. Not anymore.

Ye, maybe. 3 of their first consoles (not counting the Famicoms) had Nintendo in their name (NES, SNES, N64) so its probly more logical that it was used alot more before I remember one time some years ago i was playing on my cellphone and a guy comes a says "so you're sitting on your ass playing Nintendo?" lol.

 

[Parl]

So what you imply is that in fact, the true barometer that will determine the success of a third party game on Wii will simply be the one that tracks only games that are : NOT good, that are NOT published by a famous third party company, and that are NOT part of a popular video game or anime franchise ? Eh, in that case, following this reasoning why not narrowing down the selection a bit, and go for the best of the best ! I mean, we could say that the ULTIMATE measurement for the success of a third party on Wii would be the one that tracks only mediocre games from totally unknown companies that are based on an perfectly unpopular video game or anime franchise ! And if even one game meets these requirements and still sells 1 million copies, then we could all say that it's a success - probably a lucky one anyway. Otherwise, it would be a total flop, that would demonstrate that the third party curse on a Nintendo console is absolutely true.
Yep, sounds good to me.

Exactly. It wouldn't count if it was just luck.

 

[ksamedi]

Nintendo made a very smart move to market the Wii as a neccesity in homes instead of a toy like entertainment device. What i read from interviews is that they deliberetly created the Gamecube to look like a toy because it was meant to be an entertainment device and the name Nintendo fitted the bill. With the Wii, they wanted that image to be cleared and create something that all users can relate to and use so they also ditched the name Nintendo from there system. They market it everywhere as just Wii which is very different from a traditional game console name.

 

[Stormbringer]

Exactly. It wouldn't count if it was just luck.

I like how you absolutely did not deny or went against the horrible logic that I have exposed in this post and that stems directly from your crazy reasoning about how the success of a third party game should be measured and tracked on a Nintendo console .
Oh, well...

 

[Kiriku]

Nintendo made a very smart move to market the Wii as a neccesity in homes instead of a toy like entertainment device. What i read from interviews is that they deliberetly created the Gamecube to look like a toy because it was meant to be an entertainment device and the name Nintendo fitted the bill. With the Wii, they wanted that image to be cleared and create something that all users can relate to and use so they also ditched the name Nintendo from there system. They market it everywhere as just Wii which is very different from a traditional game console name.

I don't know if that fits the bill in all cases though. I worked with this girl during summer, she was excited about Wii because it was 'Nintendo', and since she had grown up with Nintendo she thought they deserved to be on top because that's how it was before and how it 'should' be. Lapsed gamers?

 

[Mgoblue201]

It's not like Nintendo has a very positive connotation anymore. At its best, it's still sometimes synonomous with videogames, but merely the idea of a videogame, not anything necessarily specific. Nintendo remaking their brand was the smartest thing they did with the Wii outside of the controller. I think Nintendo's chances to ever be seen as cool died the moment Halo was released. People wondered how Nintendo would ever recover their image. Well, they sidestepped it, essentially trying to stop pleasing the very consumers who had written them off to begin with. I say Halo was a turning point because with Goldeneye and Perfect Dark and a smattering of decent sports and racing games on top of their already robust first party lineup, Nintendo still was at least somewhat relevant in America. That ship sailed when the GC was released.

Incidentally, I think the Wii was the perfect storm. Without the embarrassment of the GC, without the technology, without the transformation of the Japanese market, without the issues of Sony and Microsoft, without the DS, would they be where they are right now? Sony did something similar in a dissimilar fashion with the Playstation. Throwing another reference to Apple, the iPod brand has become its own thing. I think Nintendo could have energized the brand had they chosen to. Essentially, it comes down to the controller. But the Wii names helps so much with branding purposes, and of course it's basically its own clean slate: they can mold it however they want based on the perception they're hoping to acquire. It's not just the system, it's not just the controller, it's an instantly recognizable face that everybody will identify. I think the Nintendo name itself has benefited greatly because of this, and I can still see them using it, and now it is actually relevant once again.

EDIT: I think Parl is being sarcastic. Then again, you can never be too sure on GAF.

 

[Myke Greywolf]

I don't know if that fits the bill in all cases though. I worked with this girl during summer, she was excited about Wii because it was 'Nintendo', and since she had grown own up with Nintendo she thought they deserved to be on top because that's how it was before and how it 'should' be. Lapsed gamers?

That's the genius of it - people who know Nintendo are likely to know that Wii is theirs, and buy it as Nintendo fans do. People who are not familiar with Nintendo or videogames are less likely to associate it with Nintendo because of the way the brand has been promoted, and will buy it based on that promotion only, and not based on what or how Nintendo has done in the past.

 

[AniHawk]

It's not like Nintendo has a very positive connotation anymore. At its best, it's still sometimes synonomous with videogames, but merely the idea of a videogame, not anything necessarily specific. Nintendo remaking their brand was the smartest thing they did with the Wii outside of the controller. I think Nintendo's chances to ever be seen as cool died the moment Halo was released. People wondered how Nintendo would ever recover their image. Well, they sidestepped it, essentially trying to stop pleasing the very consumers who had written them off to begin with. I say Halo was a turning point because with Goldeneye and Perfect Dark and a smattering of decent sports and racing games on top of their already robust first party lineup, Nintendo still was at least somewhat relevant in America. That ship sailed when the GC was released. Incidentally, I think the Wii was the perfect storm. Without the embarrassment of the GC, without the technology, without the transformation of the Japanese market, without the issues of Sony and Microsoft, without the DS, would they be where they are right now? Sony did something similar in a dissimilar fashion with the Playstation. Throwing another reference to Apple, the iPod brand has become its own thing. I think Nintendo could have energized the brand had they chosen to. Essentially, it comes down to the controller. But the Wii names helps so much with branding purposes, and of course it's basically its own clean slate: they can mold it however they want based on the perception they're hoping to acquire. It's not just the system, it's not just the controller, it's an instantly recognizable face that everybody will identify. I think the Nintendo name itself has benefited greatly because of this, and I can still see them using it, and now it is actually relevant once again.

I agree, but you need to give us room to breathe.

 

[Parl]

I like how you absolutely did not deny or went against the horrible logic that I have exposed in this post and that stems directly from your crazy reasoning about how the success of a third party game should be measured and tracked on a Nintendo console .
Oh, well...

Well, third parties don't sell on Nintendo consoles. When they do sell, it don't count because [insert random reason here], therefore, it will always remain that third parties don't sell on Nintendo platforms. It's just the way it works.

 

[Stormbringer]

EDIT: I think Parl is being sarcastic. Then again, you can never be too sure on GAF.

That's what I was wondering too. I have noticed Parl being a fool quite a few times here, so I thought that he was probably being serious in his foolishness, as you would be one crazy motherfucker to play a character 24/7 (well, unless you're AniHawk). Now I'm not so sure...

[edit]

Well, third parties don't sell on Nintendo consoles. When they do sell, it don't count because [insert random reason here], therefore, it will always remain that third parties don't sell on Nintendo platforms. It's just the way it works.

...

:lol

Fuck.

 

[Magicpaint]

Well, third parties don't sell on Nintendo consoles. When they do sell, it don't count because [insert random reason here], therefore, it will always remain that third parties don't sell on Nintendo platforms. It's just the way it works.

This actually is true for certain people in GAF land. That's the scary part.

 

[Parl]

That's what I was wondering too. I have noticed Parl being a fool quite a few times here, so I thought that he was probably being serious in his foolishness, as you would be one crazy motherfucker to play a character 24/7 (well, unless you're AniHawk). Now I'm not so sure...

I make some serious posts on here, but like many, many GAF members, like to joke around, but I like to not be so obvious a lot of the time (often just parodies of typical illogical things said on GAF), and continue with it when somebody thinks I'm serious.

This actually is true for certain people in GAF land. That's the scary part.

Yeah, it is quite scary.

 

[Mgoblue201]

Third party games don't sell because there are no third parties. It's just a vast conglomerate of Nintendo ninjas working unpaid overtime under names like Square and EA. I saw it in an Oliver Stone movie once.

 

[Stormbringer]

I make some serious posts on here, but like many, many GAF members, like to joke around, but I like to not be so obvious a lot of the time (often just parodies of typical illogical things said on GAF), and continue with it when somebody thinks I'm serious.

Well, anyway, bravo for fooling me, and obviously thanks for making me waste my precious time with a perfectly nonsensical - though relatively short lived - argument :lol . I'll know better next time.

 

[kkg1701]

This actually is true for certain people in GAF land. That's the scary part.

Not scary, just very very entertaining :lol


KK

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Zelda went up, too.

302,887
136,586
74,937
69,896
46,762
36,968
29,088
26,989
32,000

Definitely Phantom Hourglass saved the series in Japan. The millions seller is almost sure now and it finally breaks the loss of sales of this incredible franchise.
Just I hope that the next Zelda for Wii will be fresh as this one.

 

[Pureauthor]

Man, I love the Naked Gun series.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Could we have a illustrated Zelda chart please? Since PH outsold WW, a new one would be great.

Someone should update the Mario graph this with all the Mario's - and make one for Zelda with all the Zelda's. Whoever invented that, it would be cool.

 

[Lobster]

Japanese are monsters confirmed..My precious TP

 

[Magicpaint]

Was LA that low? Is that the figure for LA alone or combined with the DX version?

 

[AniHawk]

Japanese are monsters confirmed..My precious TP

Well latest TP sales were somewhere around 530k IIRC. So it should at least pass LA... maybe even MM with time.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Was LA that low? Is that the figure for LA alone or combined with the DX version?

You can see LA DX in the light gray text hidden at the top of the graph with the sales numbers for all of the Zelda's that don't make the top. I didn't include it merged with LA because it was released for a different system--on the other hand, maybe I should have because it did pretty much entirely supercede LA.

 

[Magicpaint]

You can see LA DX in the light gray text hidden at the top of the graph with the sales numbers for all of the Zelda's that don't make the top. I didn't include it merged with LA because it was released for a different system--on the other hand, maybe I should have because it did pretty much entirely supercede LA.

Ahh, I see it now thanks.

Just because I'm a huge fan of LA, I'd say combining both versions would be neato!

 

[AniHawk]

Ahh, I see it now thanks.

Just because I'm a huge fan of LA, I'd say combining both versions would be neato!

You also have two versions of ALttP, Zelda 2, and LoZ. I say let them be.

 

[DefectiveReject]

TP will get a Players Choice release and push its sales up worldwide

On that note do we know TP's WW sales?

 

[John Dunbar]

Just 80,000 and the best Zelda would have also been the best selling in Japan. So close.

 

[AniHawk]

Just 80,000 and the best Zelda would have also been the best selling in Japan. So close.

Actually, OoT had about 240k to go.

 

[Jirotrom]

Where is Sunshine?

 

[Fuzzy]

http://images.stumpnet.net/mario/zelda_history.png



http://images.stumpnet.net/mario/mario_history.png

Mind adding the tracking firm to these?

I love that Tingle is the best a game can do. :lol

Where is Sunshine?

Light grey.

 

[USD]

Where is Sunshine?

It's in the light gray text at the top of the graph: 871,250 copies.

 

[schuelma]

Re: 3rd parties. I agree that Sega is actually putting in a lot of effort relative to the competition. A decent Sonic game, Sonic and Mario, hopefully Nights, it looks like Samba is coming to the Wii. Not too shabby.

 

[Rocksteady33]

I thought Super Mario 64 DS was already at 1 million sales?

And anyone have numbers on Super Mario Bros. 2 USA in Japan?

 

[jarrod]

Used to be back in the day. Not anymore.

Not even then always... Famicom was it's own unique and hugely popular brand, easily on par with later brands like Game Boy or PlayStation in Japan. Actually, Nintendo 64 was the only Nintendo console to prominently use Nintendo's name in the region (and even that was originally going to be called Ultra Famicom).

GameCube also dropped "Nintendo" from the title in general advertising and press iirc, as Nintendo was trying to create some synergy with the Game Boy brand.... maybe they shoulda called it GameStation? :lol

 

[Fuzzy]

I thought Super Mario 64 DS was already at 1 million sales?

It is according to Famitsu which is why I asked for the name of the tracking firm to be added to those pics.

 

[Evlar]

I thought Super Mario 64 DS was already at 1 million sales?

And anyone have numbers on Super Mario Bros. 2 USA in Japan?

It is, it reached Platinum more than a year ago.