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[DatBreh]

Being in your face is entirely dependent upon how you view "in your face," though. I am going to assume you mean system updates, so in pure terms, the updates are not in your face... a small notification in the top corner that there is a system update, and you can then update at your own convenience. However, the only real intrusion I can think of is installing a game, agreed. I wish Sony would correct that... Anyway, there really is very little difference between the two user interfaces, because after the recent dashboard update, two are extremely similar in style, both are easy to use and visually pretty, so one is no more factually fun that the other; it just comes down to personal preference. Secondly, it is not bad to state that the 360 UI is simpler than the XMB, because once again, that is entirely opinionated and there is no real discernible evidence to prove "fun and simpler" and thus to effectively affect sales of either console? Yes, because fun for you might mean hell for someone else.

A lot of things wrong here.

1st, you can not update at your own convenience. If there is a required update you can not use Netflix, PS Store, or any online features of a game until you update. Hell during a couple updates the only way i could play the actual game i wanted without updating is to turn off the PS3, remove the ethernet cord, then turn it back on.

Then you have the actual game updates which do the same thing but instead of 5 minutes to download and install you are looking at up to 20 depending on the game and if you are really unlucky there can be multiple updates for the same game. The PS3 does a very good job of reminding you its a computer. On Xbox updates take 5-10 seconds for games and 2 minutes for a major update thats maybe twice a year.

The UI on the PS3 should come with a manual compared to XBL. On XBL i have huge boxes that let me know when something is on sale, new trailers and demos, and new releases. I have to look at that tiny window in the corner on PS3 or enter the PS Store itself to find this info. Currently as soon as i turn on my 360 i see a huge ad for Ms. Spolsion Man which released this week. Pretty much anything new thats going on with XBL i can see by scrolling up and down, i dont have to click on any folders or anything. Also if i click on a game in my library or even in an advertisement i can scroll over and see every demo, trailer, and piece of DLC released for that game. On PS3 that is a lot more difficult as you need to know exactly how to search for a game. If you click on a game in the demo section, then you will only see the demo and not any dlc or trailers.

 

[Akia]

I wonder where in the top 10 would Terraria fall if it was included?

 

[Shurs]

I wonder where in the top 10 would Terraria fall if it was included?

Seems like an unfair comparison, no?

 

[Akia]

Seems like an unfair comparison, no?

Not if you just included copies sold on Steam in June from US customers.

 

[Shurs]

Not if you just included copies sold on Steam in June from US customers.

You're comparing a $10 game, that has little to no marketing, to games that range mostly from $40 to $60.

Doesn't seem like an apples to apples comparison.

 

[SkylineRKR]

A lot of things wrong here.

Yes, thats what I meant with being in your face.

Take Ps3 demo's for instance. You download them, and then you have to manually install them which sometimes takes a long as the time it took you when you downloaded it. Especially if you install while another download is still processing. Then there are the dozens of mandatory installs, which can take over 20 minutes if its a Capcom game.

Thats not in your face, is it? Its clunky, its slow. Its like the PS Store which is clunky and slow to navigate. The Ps3 update process is slower in general, thats what I was aiming at. Its not a console thats ideal to start up when friends are over, because chances are you have to wait for something. I sometimes had to wait for almost an hour before I could play a game (XMB update, install, game update... etc). And now we've gotten those PS Move messages too... that might be a small thing, but its annoying regardless.

 

[Akia]

You're comparing a $10 game, that has little to no marketing, to games that range mostly from $40 to $60.

Doesn't seem like an apples to apples comparison.

Yeah, you're right. Plus Terraria would probably bomb if it was released in retail for $10-$20.

 

[Rush2thestart]

So did PS3 sell 175k like Pachter said? I dont see it outselling the wii the number in the OP. Wii just got a pricecut.

 

[Luckyman]

So did PS3 sell 175k like Pachter said? I dont see it outselling the wii the number in the OP. Wii just got a pricecut.

360 sold 48% of market with 507k. Wii made only 273k of remaining 549k

 

[Gravijah]

Yeah, you're right. Plus Terraria would probably bomb if it was released in retail for $10-$20.

I don't see why it would bomb if the publisher had proper expectations.

 

[lord pie]

...

I think a lot of the staying power of the 360 comes from investment in the services and software for the platform, not specific games or franchises. It's the little things that make an experience enjoyable or make it irritating.
Updates are a prime example, on the 360 updates are handled by the kernel - the differences are patched over the previous version. It's a complex system, but it has two great benefits; it's very secure and it reduces download time.

The thing I find odd, is that from an investment point of view this feature of the 360 has almost certainly paid for itself many times over. I just can't understand why Sony do not implement a similar system (if only to reduce download sizes); the global bandwidth cost for PS3 firmware and game updates must be enormous.

It's the little niggles that drag down an experience and make you less likely to recommend a system or continue to use it. I recently tried Motorstorm Apocalypse; after downloading the latest PS3 firmware it then required nearly 600mb (!) of game updates. All told it took around an hour before I could play the game. I feel this sort of thing is simply unacceptable, unnecessary and reflects badly on the console.

I think we will continue to see continued development from Microsoft. They iterate a lot, and (for the most part) they do a good job not releasing incomplete features - although there have been some stumbles recently (while kinect was very solid at launch, the dash is crying out for the next update). It'll be interesting to see how they handle the (rumored) free to play games and TV services. Both have been a long time coming, but I get the feeling they will be well integrated and TV may be a big seller.

Basically, my gut feeling is I don't see the momentum shifting back anytime soon. I suspect they will keep this growth going because of the slow but steady iteration and improvements they make to the platform. In any case, Christmas is going to be pretty big this year.

 

[Live Free or Die]

Wow those 3DS numbers.

 

[AranhaHunter]

I think the 360 could catch it if MS doesnt pull the plug on it

If 5 years ago you had said that the 360 had a chance to outsell the PS2 in the US and the PSP had a chance to outsell the PS2 in Japan, you would have been ridiculed and laughed at, yet here we are. What are the PS2's numbers in EU? I wonder if any console can catch it there....

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

What are the PS2's numbers in EU? I wonder if any console can catch it there....

Last I remember Wii was ahead of it launch aligned, but I can't imagine that lasting indefinitely. Wii will outsell PS2 in the US for sure though.

 

[AranhaHunter]

Last I remember Wii was ahead of it launch aligned, but I can't imagine that lasting indefinitely. Wii will outsell PS2 in the US for sure though.

I'm not as confident on that, but it's certainly possible.

 

[KingDizzi]

If 5 years ago you had said that the 360 had a chance to outsell the PS2 in the US and the PSP had a chance to outsell the PS2 in Japan, you would have been ridiculed and laughed at, yet here we are. What are the PS2's numbers in EU? I wonder if any console can catch it there....

PS2 could very well be beaten by 360 AND Wii in NA but that's a small victory, that bitch pimped all over all world. Wii should have taken it's place but has lost steam pretty dramatically, PS3 has more chance of passing PS2 in EU than 360 and even then the chance is about zero. Obviously can't predict the future but even though the market has expanded since the days when PS2 was boss, cannot see a console dominating like it did. Anyone got Shift 2 figures? The first game was mint and shipped several million copies but heard very bad things about Shift 2 and nothing about sales. Does not look good. :/

They didn't reach last FY target either, barely. Needs to be $199 for more of an impact.

NA is pretty much a lost cause at this point but a price drop would settle things everywhere else. As I said before this gen is set, 360 will rule NA and UK while PS3 does so everywhere else. Excluding Wii of course, despite it's drop the console will be number 1 by far when all it said and done.

So with this US domination, is the 360 increasing its lead WW over PS3 or are the other territories enough for it to keep nibbling away at the 360's lead? I could have swore I read someone here say the gap increased last year or something.

We don't get actual EU consoles sales besides Nintendo giving them so we should know more when the next shipment figures release whenever.

 

[Kagari]

PS3 hasn't had a price drop since 2009, and according to the numbers parminedes posted, it's actually selling a lot WW, so I don't think Sony is feeling pressured right now. They haven't increased their fiscal year projection as well, so yeah, $50 price cut max. They need to do something about the US market, though. Right now it is slipping away from them.

They didn't reach last FY target either, barely. Needs to be $199 for more of an impact.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

So with this US domination, is the 360 increasing its lead WW over PS3 or are the other territories enough for it to keep nibbling away at the 360's lead? I could have swore I read someone here say the gap increased last year or something.

 

[Jomjom]

So with this US domination, is the 360 increasing its lead WW over PS3 or are the other territories enough for it to keep nibbling away at the 360's lead? I could have swore I read someone here say the gap increased last year or something.

Pretty sure 360 is inching away. Japan gives the PS3 only about 120k over the 360 per month. EU I think is fairly even because the 360 outsells the PS3 in England while losing in the other smaller countries?

 

[Kagari]

So with this US domination, is the 360 increasing its lead WW over PS3 or are the other territories enough for it to keep nibbling away at the 360's lead? I could have swore I read someone here say the gap increased last year or something.

2011 Media Create-Japan (26 Weeks)
PS3 627,030
Wii 327,716
360 64,403

2011 NPD-U.S. (26 Weeks)
360 2,423,000
Wii 1,744,000
PS3 1,692,300

2011 Nintendo-Europe (14 Weeks)
PS3 1,090,000
360 760,000
Wii 750,000

Japan+U.S.+Europe 2011
PS3 3,409,330
360 3,247,403
Wii 2,821,716

 

[ULTROS!]

Pretty sure 360 is inching away. Japan gives the PS3 only about 120k over the 360 per month. EU I think is fairly even because the 360 outsells the PS3 in England while losing in the other smaller countries?

How about PS3 and 360 around the world besides Europe, Japan, and the US?

I'm under the impression that the PS3 is doing well at the rest of Asia that's not Japan as compared to the 360.

 

[Lingitiz]

I'm not saying it isn't a good thing to them but I myself would rather see more focus in creating new IP's and building new game studios. Outside of Kinect I just don't see that happening. I would also like to see Xbox Live actually evolve where it matters most, how the games perform online. Rumor has it Gears of War 3 will have dedicated servers so I guess that's a start.

I've always used my Xbox 360 as a gaming device, first and foremost. I rarely even use it for watching DVD's. It also seems outside of the U.S. that Live members don't get as much value from being a Gold member which could explain why it does so well there.

This is not a rumor. Gears 3 has dedicated servers and they were in the beta. Don't expect them to be made standard for other first party MS titles though.

 

[Jomjom]

How about PS3 and 360 around the world besides Europe, Japan, and the US?

I'm under the impression that the PS3 is doing well at the rest of Asia that's not Japan as compared to the 360.

If you are talking about china and korea the numbers are so low as to be negligible.

And wow i stand corrected. Im really surprised the ps3 has outsold the 360 by 300k thus far in Europe.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

How about PS3 and 360 around the world besides Europe, Japan, and the US?

I'm under the impression that the PS3 is doing well at the rest of Asia that's not Japan as compared to the 360.

Wii leads Korea (though it's still pretty irrelevant), PS3 and 360 essentially gave up there. I dunno about other Asain regions.


Australia's Wii > 360 > PS3. So is Canada. PS3 leads in Arab nations, though it might be the only one with an official presence too? No clue about Central or South America?

 

[Jomjom]

Wii leads Korea (though it's still pretty irrelevant), PS3 and 360 essentially gave up there. I dunno about other Asain regions.


Australia's Wii > 360 > PS3. So is Canada. PS3 leads in Arab nations, though it might be the only one with an official presence too? No clue about Central or South America?

I would think Canada would make a big difference no? They are the US's hat afterall.

 

[pieatorium]

If you are talking about china and korea the numbers are so low as to be negligible.

And wow i stand corrected. Im really surprised the ps3 has outsold the 360 by 300k thus far in Europe.

300k as of 12ish weeks ago if I read that right?

 

[Kusagari]

If you are talking about china and korea the numbers are so low as to be negligible.

And wow i stand corrected. Im really surprised the ps3 has outsold the 360 by 300k thus far in Europe.

360 is almost as irrelevant in the rest of Europe as it is in Japan so it's no surprise. The UK can only do so much.

 

[Replicant]

2011 Media Create-Japan (26 Weeks)
PS3 627,030
Wii 327,716
360 64,403

2011 NPD-U.S. (26 Weeks)
360 2,423,000
Wii 1,744,000
PS3 1,692,300

2011 Nintendo-Europe (14 Weeks)
PS3 1,090,000
360 760,000
Wii 750,000

Japan+U.S.+Europe 2011
PS3 3,409,330
360 3,247,403
Wii 2,821,716

Interesting discrepancy between US vs. the rest of the world.

 

[pieatorium]

Interesting discrepancy between US vs. the rest of the world.

EU is the only middle ground really though, It's not like Japan follows the same way with PS3 outselling 360 by almost 10 times

 

[Jomjom]

360 is almost as irrelevant in the rest of Europe as it is in Japan so it's no surprise. The UK can only do so much.

Wow I had no idea. The UK is that different culturally compared to the other European countries? To the point where the 360 is only selling a couple thousand units a week?

 

[Mileena]

2011 Media Create-Japan (26 Weeks)
PS3 627,030
Wii 327,716
360 64,403

2011 NPD-U.S. (26 Weeks)
360 2,423,000
Wii 1,744,000
PS3 1,692,300

2011 Nintendo-Europe (14 Weeks)
PS3 1,090,000
360 760,000
Wii 750,000

Japan+U.S.+Europe 2011
PS3 3,409,330
360 3,247,403
Wii 2,821,716

So... everyone besides Americans have good taste?

 

[Ardenyal]

Wow I had no idea. The UK is that different culturally compared to the other European countries? To the point where the 360 is only selling a couple thousand units a week?

UK would tow their island across the atlantic if they could They don't seem to want to be involved with EU.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

he was saying that the UI is more intuitive software. It does what you when when you want. ie, If you click on something to buy and need more money to do so it takes you right where you need to go and then right back where you were without pressing back or thinking where you were, without anything. while other systems may do that similarly, every aspect is designed like that, it just does what you expect intuitive software to do. IMO Same thing I find with Windows Phone UI. MS knows how to design this software chit.
exactly! of course its a good thing. It is an entertainment machine. Game machines are so 1990s

I think you also have a very different view on whats simple, is it awesome to gawk at? maybe but is it as simple as using the XMB? no (or maybe it's a preference thing, i simply don't know anymore lol)

UK would tow their island across the atlantic if they could They don't seem to want to be involved with EU.

Their taste seems very similar to that of the US, maybe we should anchor them beside Florida and they can officially become a state.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Wow I had no idea. The UK is that different culturally compared to the other European countries? To the point where the 360 is only selling a couple thousand units a week?

Because the 360 is so online oriented it makes since it sells in the biggest areas where one single language is spoken. English native countries have the biggest pool of people to talk to online when playing online console games.

 

[Ardenyal]

Because the 360 is so online oriented it makes since it sells in the biggest areas where one single language is spoken. English native countries have the biggest pool of people to talk to online when playing online console games.

I think it has more to do with MS investing more in english speaking regions. Netflix, Kinect voice control, ESPN etc. are not available in europe. Sony on the other hand seems to invest heavily in localizing content and even creating content for very small markets (localized singstar games, games aimed at younger audiences get localized voice overs, local TV station streaming apps etc.)

 

[ULTROS!]

If MS wanted to invest in English speaking countries with a sizable amount of online gamers (though not very big, sizable seems ok), it would be nice if they invest on Singapore, India (I think it's being well advertised there), and the Philippines too (PS3 launched here, which makes the 1st home system to launch, 360 hasn't been officially launched).

 

[SPEA]

So... everyone besides Americans have good taste?

*sigh.

Really folks?

 

[Hazelhurst]

Again, there is no way Sony or MS are gonna cut prices when their systems are doing so well so late in their lifespan. Noooooooooooooo way.

Well, maybe Sony will do a $50 cut, but that's the max.

Surely there will be a $199.99 PS3 this holiday season. The last price cut was about two years ago. It's time for Sony to get under that $200 price point.

 

[Majine]

Surely there will be a $199.99 PS3 this holiday season. The last price cut was about two years ago. It's time for Sony to get under that $200 price point.

Sony isnt going to have a 199 dollar PS3 when they are launching the 249/299 dollar Vita.

 

[Duxxy3]

$249 seems most likely - maybe a pack in game thrown in

 

[AranhaHunter]

Wii leads Korea (though it's still pretty irrelevant), PS3 and 360 essentially gave up there. I dunno about other Asain regions.


Australia's Wii > 360 > PS3. So is Canada. PS3 leads in Arab nations, though it might be the only one with an official presence too? No clue about Central or South America?

Can you post the numbers for those countries? I'm interested in seeing them.

 

[Rad-]

Wow I had no idea. The UK is that different culturally compared to the other European countries? To the point where the 360 is only selling a couple thousand units a week?

Not really. It's just UK gets all the cool Live things, the rest of Europe doesn't. Also MS markets its stuff a lot more in UK than in continental Europe.

 

[noobie]

Sony isnt going to have a 199 dollar PS3 when they are launching the 249/299 dollar Vita.

i am sure PS2 was less than $200 when PSP original launched at $250.
Somebody can confirm it.

 

[noobie]

Wii leads Korea (though it's still pretty irrelevant), PS3 and 360 essentially gave up there. I dunno about other Asain regions.


Australia's Wii > 360 > PS3. So is Canada. PS3 leads in Arab nations, though it might be the only one with an official presence too? No clue about Central or South America?

I thought PS3 was catching up 360 in Australia ..
but i m definitely interested in seeing the actual numbers of Canada & Australia.. please anyone?

 

[CadetMahoney]

There really should be a worldwide thread instead of the same debate in every NPD.

I'm not saying it isn't a good thing to them but I myself would rather see more focus in creating new IP's and building new game studios.

They probably think 3rd parties are the strong point this gen. PS3 exclusives don't seem to be lighting up the charts and the last PS3 exclusive that moved systems was MGS4 in 2007. From a business pov I don't think MS are sweating it.

 

[okenny]

*sigh.

Really folks?

You've heard the many things fanboys have said this generation the ridiculous stances that have been taken. Surely this can't be your breaking point! If you haven't managed to learn to savor this brand of stupid then you're really missing out on a culinary delight

 

[velvet_nitemare]

i am sure PS2 was less than $200 when PSP original launched at $250.
Somebody can confirm it.

While i don't have confirmation, PS2 was $200 as early as May 2002 almost 3 years before PSP launch (March 2005).

http://money.cnn.com/2002/05/14/technology/ps2_pricecuts/

 

[MeBecomingI]

A lot of things wrong here.

1st, you can not update at your own convenience. If there is a required update you can not use Netflix, PS Store, or any online features of a game until you update. Hell during a couple updates the only way i could play the actual game i wanted without updating is to turn off the PS3, remove the ethernet cord, then turn it back on.

Then you have the actual game updates which do the same thing but instead of 5 minutes to download and install you are looking at up to 20 depending on the game and if you are really unlucky there can be multiple updates for the same game. The PS3 does a very good job of reminding you its a computer. On Xbox updates take 5-10 seconds for games and 2 minutes for a major update thats maybe twice a year.

The UI on the PS3 should come with a manual compared to XBL. On XBL i have huge boxes that let me know when something is on sale, new trailers and demos, and new releases. I have to look at that tiny window in the corner on PS3 or enter the PS Store itself to find this info. Currently as soon as i turn on my 360 i see a huge ad for Ms. Spolsion Man which released this week. Pretty much anything new thats going on with XBL i can see by scrolling up and down, i dont have to click on any folders or anything. Also if i click on a game in my library or even in an advertisement i can scroll over and see every demo, trailer, and piece of DLC released for that game. On PS3 that is a lot more difficult as you need to know exactly how to search for a game. If you click on a game in the demo section, then you will only see the demo and not any dlc or trailers.

Yes, you can update at your convenience. The system does not automatically direct you to the System Update selection, nor force you to update at that very moment. Because you still have the option to play something on your PS3, listen to music, watch videos and other things, you have the convenience of updating whenever you feel the need too. Yes, there are mandatory updates, and you are stuck updating regardless to get online features, but you still have access to your console and a wide variety of features without having to update.

Actual game updates, which I have agreed with on a previous post as being intrusive and annoying, can be an unfortunate problem, I agree. However, the speed at which they download are entirely dependent on the users connection. I have never had an update take 20 minutes to download and install, generally because my connection is fairly fast. Each console approaches this task differently. Unfortunately, Sony made a stupid decision and made automatic patching a Plus only feature, so a lot of people miss out on it. I have automatic patching, so I really have no problem with the game updates now, but I can understand it being a problem for people. I give credit to Microsoft, they did a great job with patching and deserve a lot of praise for it.

Finally, the U.I on the XMB does have a "manual" and it happens to located directly on the XMB under Network, called Online Instruction Manuals - though it doesn't mean the system is difficult to use. If you have a problem using the XMB, than you are free to use the manual, but the design of the XMB is actually fairly fool proof... Users, Settings, Photo, Video, Music, Game, Network, PlayStation Network and Friends. All options horizontally listed and sub options and selections are listed vertically... should be very easy to use. If I need to adjust a microphone setting, I scroll over to Settings and scroll down to Accessory Settings... select it and find Audio Device Settings. No extra menus overlay over another and everything just slides in. Very hard to get lost with sliding menus. Hell, if you were take a picture of the XMB and the current dashboard, they actually look and function very, very similarly, albeit reversed; XMB having the main functions listed horizontally, the dashboard has them listed vertically and options listed in clusters instead of vertical lines.

Regarding the huge ads... Sony decided it would be easier to have that game ads information scroll at the top, or in the actual PlayStation Store to keep the XMB clean. They also provide an option similar in the What's New box, which you can optionally have load when you turn on your PS3. Microsoft chooses to display newest information on a game right when you turn on the 360, regardless. Both are unique approaches that different people enjoy. I agree in the idea of having all the content related to that game be displayed when you select that particular game, which is fantastic, but once again, Microsoft provides more convenience for some things and Sony provides more convenience for others. Again, they approach things differently.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread. Sorry, everyone!

 

[SimpleDesign]

So... everyone besides Americans have good taste?

Sick burn.

 

[M-PG71C]

Yes, thats what I meant with being in your face.

Take Ps3 demo's for instance. You download them, and then you have to manually install them which sometimes takes a long as the time it took you when you downloaded it. Especially if you install while another download is still processing. Then there are the dozens of mandatory installs, which can take over 20 minutes if its a Capcom game.

Thats not in your face, is it? Its clunky, its slow. Its like the PS Store which is clunky and slow to navigate. The Ps3 update process is slower in general, thats what I was aiming at. Its not a console thats ideal to start up when friends are over, because chances are you have to wait for something. I sometimes had to wait for almost an hour before I could play a game (XMB update, install, game update... etc). And now we've gotten those PS Move messages too... that might be a small thing, but its annoying regardless.

There is a lot of truth to that. My fiancee had some friends over the other night and wanted to Netflix a film. She had to update the console and it took forever. So much so they decided to do something else altogether apparently.

Now I play my PS3 but not as often lately and it seems every time I turn it on, I either have to update a game's patches or update the console. Its kind of annoying really.

I wish it was more streamlined or seamless really. The 3DS will download the update when its sleeping and then its a easy two minute install process. That's pretty fucking cool. The Xbox 360 only updates once a blue moon and the game patches are apparently pretty fast, which is something I would figure Sony would look into.

The PS3 is cumbersome, plain and simple. I'm hoping the Vita changes this.