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PoliGAF Thread of First Debate Election 2008 - GAF doesn't know shit

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permutated said:
I really hated how much McCain smiles when he just talks over Obama, otherwise I think that (objectively speaking) there weren't enough solid new points made on either side, and McCain spent too much time trying to discredit Obama on stuff that was simply a manipulation of the truth.

Regardless, I'm happy I watched the full debate, though I wish there weren't so many of the "once upon a time" stories. The bracelet bit was corny and unnecessary (on both sides). Obama nearly forgetting the soldiers name & McCain obviously just reciting lines showed me that neither of them truly cared.
I cringed at that part, but it was the best way for Obama to neutralize the idea that McCain is the only one who stands symbol for our soldiers and patriotism.

Still, very stupid shit to tell in a debate. Like there's nothing else to be told than emotional, personal anecdotes to attract the people that vote with their gut.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
I can mostly agree with this post but I still think the length of the debate will eventually do her in, with or without Biden "slaughtering" her.

I agree. Since there's going to be little to no back and forth between the candidates, it means there's going to be a ton of questions over 90 minutes. That's a huge gauntlet to get through for Palin. All it takes is a couple of questions that she didn't anticipate for the house of cards to fall.

Though I think if she can get through the first 45 minutes without making any major gaffes, she'll have enough confidence to get through the rest of the debate without totally falling apart. Also, even if she gives broad generic answers, she just needs to respond fairly fast. She can't have a deer in headlights moment like she did with the Rick Davis question. Most Americans have no idea what the candidates are talking about anyway. They mostly go by body language and how clear a response is given. McCain made several errors on foreign policy last Friday but no one noticed because he responded with confidence.

I honestly don't know how this debate is going to go. I keep going back and forth. She did mediocre in the Gibson interview. Not great, but not terrible. If that Palin shows up, she'll exceed expectations. But the townhall she did wasn't very flattering and the Couric interview was a train-wreck, which was just a few days ago.

So I see it anywhere from being a bland debate to Palin running off the stage in tears. I think a lot depends on the final VP debate format and how much the McCain campaign were able to rehabilitate Palin.
 

Kintaco

Member
artredis1980 said:
Bill Clinton : I wont call Obama a great man like McCain
artredis1980 said:
Former President Bill Clinton was hesitant to characterize Barack Obama as a "great man" Sunday, a phrase he had no qualms using last week to describe Obama's rival John McCain.

Clinton told NBC's Tom Brokaw that it was only earlier this month in Harlem that he and Obama had their "first conversation." He said he had spoken with Obama before, but only in passing.

Clinton then explained what he meant in characterizing McCain as a "great man."

"I think his greatness is that he keeps trying to come back to service without ever asking people to cut him any slack or feel sorry for him or any of that stuff because he was a POW," Clinton said of the Republican presidential nominee.

Clinton, who successfully ran his own 1992 presidential campaign on the now commonly used phrase "it's the economy, stupid," said that he believed the current economic crisis "left [Obama] in a position of leadership that he's now in."

Clinton said he thought Obama "saw and imagined" how the economic situation could develop.

"And I think that the rest of us should admire that. That's a big part of leadership, being able to sense, as well as see the future," he said.

Clinton said he and Obama are developing a "really good relationship," and the Democratic nominee has the potential for greatness.
Explaining, he said Obama has many personal accomplishments, but none that exemplify his greatness to the country.

"When he becomes president, he'll be doing things for the American people and for the world and he is-and the greatness will then become apparent because of the good he'll do…That's what I very much believe is going to happen."

Some have questioned Bill Clinton's support for Obama following the protracted primary battle between the Illinois senator and Hillary Clinton. The former president praised Obama during his speech at the Democratic National Convention and declared Obama "ready to be president of the United States," as both sides tried to bring an end to the "Clinton-Obama rift" storyline.

Clinton himself was among the most outspoken critics of Obama's readiness during the primary season.

The reason it has taken him so long to hit the trail for Obama was the need for him to return to work on his foundation after the long primary season, Clinton explained Sunday.

He is expected to campaign for Obama in Florida, Ohio, northeast Pennsylvania, and Nevada after the Jewish holidays.

"I'm going to do my very best to do every single thing he asks me to do," Clinton said.


This should tell you where Bill's priorities lie

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/28/clinton-hesitant-to-call-obama-a-great-man/
Yeah I see where his priorities lie.
You do know you can actual admire people from the opposing party right? All he is saying Obama is not a "great man" yet, which is true. But he definitely has great potential to be a great man and leader.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Everyone in here convinced that Palin is going to get slaughtered is setting themselves up for disappointment.

She's done a few terrible interviews, but she's not as clueless as I think you think she is.

Can she stand toe to toe with Biden? No. But she'll do well enough to exceed your lower-than-low expectations.
 
GDJustin said:
Everyone in here convinced that Palin is going to get slaughtered is setting themselves up for disappointment.

She's done a few terrible interviews, but she's not as clueless as I think you think she is.

Can she stand toe to toe with Biden? No. But she'll do well enough to exceed your lower-than-low expectations.

The fact that she's bombed 90 second interviews, says loads about the biggest debate of her life.
 

Kintaco

Member
GDJustin said:
Everyone in here convinced that Palin is going to get slaughtered is setting themselves up for disappointment.

She's done a few terrible interviews, but she's not as clueless as I think you think she is.

Can she stand toe to toe with Biden? No. But she'll do well enough to exceed your lower-than-low expectations.
No actually I think she is a lot more clueless than she appears, she only seems less clueless thanks to all the preparation she's been getting.
 
Kintaco said:
No actually I think she is a lot more clueless than she appears, she only seems less clueless thanks to all the preparation she's been getting.

Lol @ the avatar, wanted to get that out of the way.

For the record I think Palin will start off OK in the debate, but by the end there will be alot of changed minds in the audience.
 

Kintaco

Member
permutated said:
Lol @ the avatar, wanted to get that out of the way.

For the record I think Palin will start off OK in the debate, but by the end there will be alot of changed minds in the audience.
I'm hoping it's a train wreck, but sadly I don't believe it will be one. Still can't wait for it. Hopefully the debate isn't on at the same time as the Dodgers-Cubs game.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
In my opinion, Palin fucked those interviews because she was very nervous. You can hear it in her voice.

Anyone, ANYONE, can cram. I could cram talking points and stumble through a VP debate, for Christ's sake.

My main point here is that you guys literally talk about her like you believe she's borderline retarded

I believe she'll have her talking points down, and might even get 1-2 zingers in on Biden. And then you'll all be shocked afterwards that you didn't witness a complete meltdown.

If she gets her nerves down she'll be OK.
 
Kintaco said:
I'm hoping it's a train wreck, but sadly I don't believe it will be one. Still can't wait for it. Hopefully the debate isn't on at the same time as the Dodgers-Cubs game.

What day/time? I think i missed the announcement during the debate.
 

Extollere

Sucks at poetry
GDJustin said:
In my opinion, Palin fucked those interviews because she was very nervous. You can hear it in her voice.

Anyone, ANYONE, can cram. I could cram talking points and stumble through a VP debate, for Christ's sake.

My main point here is that you guys literally talk about her like you believe she's borderline retarded

I believe she'll have her talking points down, and might even get 1-2 zingers in on Biden. And then you'll all be shocked afterwards that you didn't witness a complete meltdown.

If she gets her nerves down she'll be OK.

This is what I'm thinking too. The meltdown would be great, but in all honesty I think she'll probably be ok with it. Granted I am still expecting Biden to receive a much higher performance percentage than Palin.
 
GDJustin said:
Everyone in here convinced that Palin is going to get slaughtered is setting themselves up for disappointment.

She's done a few terrible interviews, but she's not as clueless as I think you think she is.

Can she stand toe to toe with Biden? No. But she'll do well enough to exceed your lower-than-low expectations.
It's obvious in her interviews that she is merely repeating information by rote. She may have a great memory, but she can only appear authoritative within the narrow bounds of what she has been specifically coached to say, which is fine for speeches, sufficient but not ideal for interviews, and terrible for the purposes of a debate. When pressed she resorts to repeating the same phrases or side stepping the issue entirely with prepared remarks on unrelated matters.

Given that Gwen Ifill is a good moderator those tactics are not going to take her very far on Thursday. I'm sure however she performs the fundamentalists that she already appeals to will praise her, but based on everything we've seen from the time she was picked through the past week I don't think it's a stretch to assume she'll appear completely out of her league, which she is. Among independents, or even moderate Republicans tuning in for the first time, I have a hard time imagining that she's going to make a positive impression.
 
GDJustin said:
In my opinion, Palin fucked those interviews because she was very nervous. You can hear it in her voice.

Anyone, ANYONE, can cram. I could cram talking points and stumble through a VP debate, for Christ's sake.

My main point here is that you guys literally talk about her like you believe she's borderline retarded

I believe she'll have her talking points down, and might even get 1-2 zingers in on Biden. And then you'll all be shocked afterwards that you didn't witness a complete meltdown.

If she gets her nerves down she'll be OK.

Absolutely, but don't you think it's strange for her to bug out from nervousness on 10 minute interviews, when she has the biggest debate of her entire life coming up? I mean 10 minutes is a long time, but 90 minutes can be brutal. One screw up or false answer and Biden will attack.

I don't like rollover teams in sports games, neither do I enjoy trainwreck debates. I liked how much McCain brought up during the debate, because it creates a good environment for candidates to really get into it, and even though I'm voting Obama I still want Palin to put up a fight.
 

Beavertown

Garbage
GDJustin said:
In my opinion, Palin fucked those interviews because she was very nervous. You can hear it in her voice.



That makes sense. So she was nervous and not completely and utterly clueless, uniformed and borderline retarded.

For fucks sake man. There's nervous and then there's stoopid! I mean wtf? Did you even listen to the shit she was saying? I mean my god! How can you even begin to defend her or make excuses for her?

Preposterous.

That said, yeah, she'll probably be able to stumble through the debate without doing too much damage, but then again, every time she opens her mouth, poop comes out.
 

AniHawk

Member
Also, I don't think people, especially with the sudden seriousness of the last couple weeks, are going to see a Palin that did better than expected and think, "oh, well that went okay enough, I guess!" They're gonna see a mediocre at best performance by her and possibly a great performance by Biden. Even if she doesn't implode, he'll probably still get the win. No one's gonna wanna go with the pity vote with what's going down right now.
 

Wray

Member
My biggest concern in the VP debate is that Biden will come off as the grouchy grumpy old white guy and Palin will come away with the "Volume Turned Off" win that alot of folks were talking about after the McCain/Obama debate.
 

M3wThr33

Banned
AniHawk said:
Also, I don't think people, especially with the sudden seriousness of the last couple weeks, are going to see a Palin that did better than expected and think, "oh, well that went okay enough, I guess!" They're gonna see a mediocre at best performance by her and possibly a great performance by Biden. Even if she doesn't implode, he'll probably still get the win. No one's gonna wanna go with the pity vote with what's going down right now.
I hope so, but keep in mind how she responds when under duress.
She just spouts party lines and meaningless bullshit, which has been enough to keep her supporters happy. As long as she makes a fucking coherent sentence, it seems to justify her role in their mind.
 
OMG . . . I finally got around to watching Friday's Bill Maher and that New Rules rant at the end had me laughing so hard I was turning blue. :lol

Well done. :lol
 
speculawyer said:
OMG . . . I finally got around to watching Friday's Bill Maher and that New Rules rant at the end had me laughing so hard I was turning blue. :lol

Well done. :lol
It was one of his best.

And I tend to love almost all of Maher's jokes.:lol
 

benjipwns

Banned
I think Palin needs to be considered like Bush. If the handlers try to focus him on talking points, and make sure he hits certain stuff, he rushes in his answers. (Which is the key to that Cafferty clip everyone I know seems to be sending me. Palin tries to fit like sixty talking points in two paragraphs) But when he's allowed to go more off the cuff he appears better.

This is the opposite of what you would consider to be prime strategy, but for both Bush and Palin it makes them more likeable. The "who do you want to have a beer with?" question.

In the first debates in 2000 and 2004, Bush was "talking points" robot, and he suffered. Luckily for him, Gore and Kerry botched it enough. Then he ignored that and did his schtick and performed far better. (Remember, people don't watch to see who won each point, they watch to see who they'd trust more. Which is why Obama won the last debate, he seemed like someone to trust.)

I imagine Biden has been told for weeks now to doublethink everything he does so it doesn't come off as "attacking a woman" and with Joe we absolutely cannot count on him not doing that, but I imagine it is his top priority. He's spent 36 years with federal political issues, he knows how to handle them. She's a relative newcomer. Her best angle is "she's one of us" and his best angle is "I know how to do shit."

I imagine it will be over 9000 (and I only use that meme because of the Oprah stuff, much respect on that) times more exciting than the first debate. If not...fuck it, I'll still watch the last two debates. Political History is my life after all.

I still can't believe neither candidate said, all over the airwaves, "let's change this first debate to economic matters" and it took Jim Lehrer and some behind the scenes crap to get the first half hour on it.
 

AniHawk

Member
M3wThr33 said:
I hope so, but keep in mind how she responds when under duress.
She just spouts party lines and meaningless bullshit, which has been enough to keep her supporters happy. As long as she makes a fucking coherent sentence, it seems to justify her role in their mind.

She already has her base. She needs independents and people looking for answers. If all she can do is repeat party line, she won't be able to sway people, no matter how much she doesn't screw up.

Wray said:
My biggest concern in the VP debate is that Biden will come off as the grouchy grumpy old white guy and Palin will come away with the "Volume Turned Off" win that alot of folks were talking about after the McCain/Obama debate.

Yeah, that's a problem, definitely. I still don't think it would be enough for people to overwhelmingly vote against Barack Obama though. The last thing people will have in their minds will be the third debate, about the economy. And that's basically two weeks later, which is a long time.
 

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
M3wThr33 said:
I hope so, but keep in mind how she responds when under duress.
She just spouts party lines and meaningless bullshit, which has been enough to keep her supporters happy. As long as she makes a fucking coherent sentence, it seems to justify her role in their mind.

Yeah... well, if republicans were the only people in an electorate that mattered, Obama wouldn't be doing nearly as well as he is now.
 

kevm3

Member
What I really want is for Biden to encapsulate the essence of the Obama campaign for the American public. Really define what change the Obama-Biden ticket will bring to the American public, while also spending time distinguishing themselves from the supposed change that McCain is promoting. I don't want him to focus on 'trying to win against Palin,' which I doubt he will do. I want Biden to focus on, "this is why the Obama-Biden ticket is viable and the McCain-Palin ticket is not," as opposed to trying to outlogic/outrhetoric Palin, which probably isn't too hard to do. But the American public doesn't really respond to logic as much as they do to emotion.

My assessment of how Palin will perform...
I think Palin did so well in the Alaskan debates because she was familiar with Alaskan matters. Now, that's a tremendous disadvantage to her on the national stage, because it's obvious that her whole focus in her life up to that point was on Alaskan issues. Look at the "what does a VP do" video. In that, she's talking about whether things she does as a VP will be beneficial to Alaskans. She is completely out of her element when discussing things such as foreign policy, economic issues, etc. Palin has to come through this completely with the 'likeability' factor. So, I don't think we'll get the Alaskan debates Palin, which was fairly competent, but we also won't get the complete trainwreck of Palin on Couric. I'm just trying to set my expectations to a reasonable level here. The thing is, Palin doesn't really have to be 100% logical. She just has to say fairly agreeable things that resonate with the public. If she can sit and 'cheerlead' McCain talking points, she will have exceeded expectations in this debate.

There's another side of me that really does think it will be a trainwreck because, although she will be able to spout talking points, she will only be able to do so for so long. When the moderator says, "Sarah, you have 5 minutes to talk about how you believe in solving the economic crisis." She'll be able to say something like, "Well, I like what Congress is doing. They are coming up with a bi-partisan solution. McCain has the answers because he warned of the crisis in 2005." After that, she's stuck with about 4 minutes and 30 seconds to talk. The thing with cramming is, it's easy to cram for subjects that you are competent in, but for something that you are completely unfamiliar with, it's nearly impossible to cram. For example, someone who has never taken accounting can't just open an accounting book and start cramming for accounting in two weeks and look competent. So how easy will it be for an Alaskan-issue focused politician to turn into a national and global focused politician?

Now, I really wonder how the media will react. It seems that this crisis has been beneficial in more ways than one to the Obama camp. Not only does it aid him because the public sees him as more competent than McCain on the economy, but it has also tilted the media his direction to some degree. After seeing their stocks plummet, some of these journalists and reporters are thinking, "Palin will be disasterous in office, and McCain, who admitted he doesn't know much about the economy, won't be any better." So even if Palin performs better than expected, I don't think the media will be all that generous to her like they would have been if this crisis had not occured.

Thursday can't come soon enough.
 

benjipwns

Banned
kevm3 said:
There's another side of me that really does think it will be a trainwreck because, although she will be able to spout talking points, she will only be able to do so for so long. When the moderator says, "Sarah, you have 5 minutes to talk about how you believe in solving the economic crisis." She'll be able to say something like, "Well, I like what Congress is doing. They are coming up with a bi-partisan solution. McCain has the answers because he warned of the crisis in 2005." After that, she's stuck with about 4 minutes and 30 seconds to talk. The thing with cramming is, it's easy to cram for subjects that you are competent in, but for something that you are completely unfamiliar with, it's nearly impossible to cram.
I think this is the best part of your post, even if it doesn't directly say the key point. How she fills that other 4:30 is the important point. If she can do it, Biden has no chance, she will automatically be more likeable. If she stumbles, or rambles, she has no chance.

I personally think, that early on she'll probably look bad, but eventually ditch the campaign directives and do her thing. I get the impression she's the type of person who knows they can lose the points and win the debate. It depends on how much of a "I MUST ADHERE TO WHAT THE CAMPAIGN WANTS" kind of person she is. What I've heard about the teleprompter troubles at the RNC makes me think she might be a bit tougher than the Obama camp may think. She didn't get the "Sarahcuda" tag in politics for nothing. (Same with Obama and Chicago politics it should be said.)

Also, your part on Biden making the case on Obama. Yes, absolutely. Cheney dominated in his debates, while also making the case for Bush. That's why his debates are referenced so much. It makes a double case, that not only is the top of the ticket solid, but worse comes to worse, the bottom can handle stuff too. That is Biden's goal in the debate. (Which I expect a "relative nobody" to watch.)
 
benjipwns said:
What I've heard about the teleprompter troubles at the RNC makes me think she might be a bit tougher than the Obama camp may think.
I agree with just about everything you've said, but had to comment on this portion.

There were no prompter problems. She was lying when she said the prompter went out. There's footage of her speech and never once did the prompter fritz.
 

Schlep

Member
kevm3 said:
Now, I really wonder how the media will react. It seems that this crisis has been beneficial in more ways than one to the Obama camp. Not only does it aid him because the public sees him as more competent than McCain on the economy, but it has also tilted the media his direction to some degree. After seeing their stocks plummet, some of these journalists and reporters are thinking, "Palin will be disasterous in office, and McCain, who admitted he doesn't know much about the economy, won't be any better." So even if Palin performs better than expected, I don't think the media will be all that generous to her like they would have been if this crisis had not occured.
Realistically I think the media's changing right now for a couple reasons. The first is that the McCain campaign really pissed them off with the outright lies in ads and from their surrogates. It got to the point where the media could no longer go by the status quo, else risk their reputations as professional journalists.

The other problem for the McCain campaign is that shit got serious. When everything was good, and Louisiana was spared by Gustav, their distraction strategy of style with no substance worked incredibly well. After Ike hit the Houston area and the bailout stuff happened, people started paying attention to the issues. Unfortunately this doesn't work for McCain because his stance on issues are Bush's just by definition of his party. Bush screws McCain once again...

Also, re: the teleprompter. I thought that was widely discredited as a Republican fable that never happened.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Thunder Monkey said:
I agree with just about everything you've said, but had to comment on this portion.

There were no prompter problems. She was lying when she said the prompter went out. There's footage of her speech and never once did the prompter fritz.
Oh, was there? I heard the Rudy stuff (having spent plenty of time on him, I knew he was ad-libbing), and she seemed to be ad-libbing it at points and just assumed it continued. Hadn't bothered to investigate further. My fault then if she wasn't.
 

kevm3

Member
It's interesting, but political debates do seem to come down to emotion when you get down to it. It's not about who has the most well thought out, rational points, which is the case in academic debates... But these political debates are more like marketing a presidential product. The American public will go for who can sell the "Presidential image" the best.

This is why so many polls tilted in Obama's favor. McCain may have been more firm and knowledgeable when talking about foreign policy, but he didn't sell the Presidential image. He came off as bitter and somewhat nasty. If you think back to your high school days, the most popular people weren't usually the most intellectual, and they certainly weren't the bitter people who criticized everything.It's usually the friendly, social jock, who probably wasn't the brightest bulb around, who made people feel comfortable that got crowds gathering around them.

McCain didn't give off that feeling of likeability and comfort when he started talking down on Obama, calling him naive, etc. The American public isn't looking for someome who can destroy the other person with the best arguments. Rather, they'll be looking for statements they can 'connect with' and for the candidate who gives off that calm and collected image, because, ultimately, it's about feeling. That's the big thing that Obama has over Kerry and Gore, despite the fact that he has to deal with a race disadvantage. He has the sort of personality that is loose and natural and makes people feel relaxed around him, whereas they gave off a sort of "uptight intellectual/elitist" vibe.

This is why Gore lost to Bush, and guys like Ron Paul, even though he has the ability to make very intelligent arguments, won't get far with the American public. Even though Gore had the superior arguments, he had a robotic posture and delivery. Bush came off as more calm, collected and warm. People are much more inclined to follow people they "like," which was the big advantage for Bush during his campaigns.


Another big aspect of these debates is that it comes down to the dominating emotion at the time, which is almost always fear. During 9/11, it was fear of terrorists and 'who can keep me safe during these troubling times?' Now, it's 'who can keep me from financial ruin?' Who can market this feeling of security in light of this financial crisis? Deliver me from this fear and make me feel good and I'll pay you with my vote. Looking at Ron Paul's vocal inflections and his posture, he seems to give off a nervous vibe and makes people feel nervous. He may be able to talk very intelligently, but he makes people too jittery to follow him. People want to follow the guy who bfings them the feeling of security amidst the currently dominating crisis... and the candidate and the runningmate which can most accurately market themselves as the ones who will deliver that feeling are the ones who usually end up in the White House.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Gotta love Kerry fucking shit up on behalf of Obama on Fox. Too bad he never seemed this sharp in his own defense during the '04 campaign.
Strangely, he seems to believe in Obama more then he ever did himself.:lol

benjipwns said:
Oh, was there? I heard the Rudy stuff (having spent plenty of time on him, I knew he was ad-libbing), and she seemed to be ad-libbing it at points and just assumed it continued. Hadn't bothered to investigate further. My fault then if she wasn't.
No harm no foul man.

Just don't fall for Rightwing talking points.
 

benjipwns

Banned
No harm no foul man.

Just don't fall for Rightwing talking points.
I'm a skeptic to everything, but I heard the stuff on Rudy and he was pretty much (in my opinion) ad-libbing major sections of his. (A skill I really like of his. Wish more politicans were able to ad-lib. Including Obama and his "uh"/"you know" fest at times. So it was believable that they'd failed to fix it in time.) And then I didn't care enough to look up stuff further. :lol

I still don't think she should be misunderestimated. That was Kerry's (and Gore's) major flaw on Bush. Not thinking he'd find his way to hold his own.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
Gotta love Kerry fucking shit up on behalf of Obama on Fox. Too bad he never seemed this sharp in his own defense during the '04 campaign.

Man I love Kerry. This is why I hate it when people say Kerry wasn't a good candidate. He has a real spark to him. Bush's dirty tactics are to blame in '04, and that's it.

I hate how my fellow Dems often dismiss their former candidates so quickly; both Kerry and Gore are great politicians who are the heart and soul of the party. Don't hate on our own, the Republicans do more than enough of that as it is.
 

benjipwns

Banned
I think Kerry sucked almost completely in 2004. It's like he gained new life as soon as the campaign was over. If the Kerry post-2004 was the Kerry of 2004 things might have turned out different.

Still not sure on Gore however. That seems like it was just bad luck.
 

mj1108

Member
permutated said:
Absolutely, but don't you think it's strange for her to bug out from nervousness on 10 minute interviews, when she has the biggest debate of her entire life coming up? I mean 10 minutes is a long time, but 90 minutes can be brutal. One screw up or false answer and Biden will attack.

This won't be just 90 minutes...it'll be 90 minutes on live television being watched by probably 50 or 60 million people.

A whole different league than a taped interview that can be edited down.
 

Barrett2

Member
GDJustin said:
In my opinion, Palin fucked those interviews because she was very nervous. You can hear it in her voice.

Anyone, ANYONE, can cram. I could cram talking points and stumble through a VP debate, for Christ's sake.

My main point here is that you guys literally talk about her like you believe she's borderline retarded

I believe she'll have her talking points down, and might even get 1-2 zingers in on Biden. And then you'll all be shocked afterwards that you didn't witness a complete meltdown.

If she gets her nerves down she'll be OK.


If she was so nervous during the Couric interview she couldn't keep her shit together, the VP debate will be 100x more pressure-filled. It will be by far the most nerve wracking experience of her life, and her longest interview by far. She not only has to rehash her talking points for 90 minutes, she has to be able to respond to things that Biden says, even if indirectly. She will fall apart in the first 30 minutes, guaranteed.
 

benjipwns

Banned
If she doesn't though, they win all the marbles. If Palin holds her own against Biden, it changes everything.

Not saying it happens...but if it does...

I stop giving any value to any polls until the results come in. (As if they could lose the little value I give them already.)
 
I almost agree that Palin has a really good chance of really fucking it up, but then I remember her nickname was Sarah Barracuda.

With enough acclimation, she could be deadly so i wouldn't underestimate her completely.
 

AniHawk

Member
MightyHedgehog said:
Gotta love Kerry fucking shit up on behalf of Obama on Fox. Too bad he never seemed this sharp in his own defense during the '04 campaign.

Kerry's been a fucking awesome surrogate for Obama. I think the pressure's off as far as needing to look presidential and he's really, really pissed at what the GOP and other right-wing nutjobs did to him in 04.

If we saw more of this kinda fiery Kerry in 04, I might have been more willing to vote for him than against Bush. I never disliked him though. Same with Gore.
 

MrHicks

Banned
Nabs said:
"He said he was going to interrupt his campaign to come down and save the negotiations. Most people believe what he did was come down and interrupt the negotiations to save his campaign."

ooooh snap
 
lawblob said:
If she was so nervous during the Couric interview she couldn't keep her shit together, the VP debate will be 100x more pressure-filled. It will be by far the most nerve wracking experience of her life, and her longest interview by far. She not only has to rehash her talking points for 90 minutes, she has to be able to respond to things that Biden says, even if indirectly. She will fall apart in the first 30 minutes, guaranteed.
And all of this will be LIVE and broadcast around the world (on probably every major network), which is the biggest thing here. No editing of prerecorded interview footage will help here. I think it's going to be chock full of cringeworthy moments, mostly thanks to her performance.
 

benjipwns

Banned
We have to account for the media editing her interviews against her though. The media likes to position itself against everyone. I don't think much of the Republican spin has much weight, but some of the stuff like the Bush Doctrine has a bit. (I mean, when did this go from speech crap to an actual academic doctrine.)

The worst thing you can do is underestimate your opponent. Especially in debate. You have to imagine they have an answer for everything you say. And you have to have a response to that ready.
 
Wray said:
My biggest concern in the VP debate is that Biden will come off as the grouchy grumpy old white guy and Palin will come away with the "Volume Turned Off" win that alot of folks were talking about after the McCain/Obama debate.

If you ever seen Biden debate (or in interviews) he doesn't give out a "grouchy old white guy" vibe at all. He almost always has a smile on his face even when he's landing zingers. Heck, he's able to totally blast McCain without coming off as a jerk. Obviously he'll need a lighter touch with Palin, but he never looks grumpy.

Biden is an excellent debater. The absolute best the McCain campaign can hope for is a wash and the Obama campaign would be perfectly fine with that. So Biden doesn't have to score points at all. He just treat it like a regular Meet the Press interview.

This should be the most stress-free debate for Obama supporters. We basically just want to see if there is a Palin train-wreck or not. If so, great. :D If not, no harm done.

Besides, the Couric interview is now infamous. People aren't just going to forget about it even if she gives a passable debate performance.
 

benjipwns

Banned
The Chosen One said:
Biden is an excellent debater. ...He just treat it like a regular Meet the Press interview.
This.

Biden doesn't change on the format. Usually. The question is how much power the Obama campaign has over him to control everything. If Biden isn't Biden, and Palin plays her "everywoman" tag, Biden can't win.

Biden is refreshing in his honesty, how much does he hold to that is the key.
 

devilhawk

Member
benjipwns said:
I think Kerry sucked almost completely in 2004. It's like he gained new life as soon as the campaign was over. If the Kerry post-2004 was the Kerry of 2004 things might have turned out different.

Still not sure on Gore however. That seems like it was just bad luck.
People are fickle. People were tired of democrats in 2000 and wanted to see what the other party could do. I think it is very similar to 2008 in that the incumbent party has a disadvantage in attitude of the electorate. Obviously the hate Bush has now wasn't paralleled in 2000 for Clinton but the electorate was ready to move on.

This is why people always say that McCain shouldn't be so close. The discard for Clinton wasn't anywhere comparable to Bush so it is amazing that McCain and Gore have similar numbers.
 

AniHawk

Member
devilhawk said:
People are fickle. People were tired of democrats in 2000 and wanted to see what the other party could do. I think it is very similar to 2008 in that the incumbent party has a disadvantage in attitude of the electorate. Obviously the hate Bush has now wasn't paralleled in 2000 for Clinton but the electorate was ready to move on.

By electorate, do you mean majority of the people? Because then that wasn't the case.
 
benjipwns said:
We have to account for the media editing her interviews against her though.
Not sure how you can deny her absolutely terrible Couric interview answers. No editing was needed to make her look bad there.

The worst thing you can do is underestimate your opponent. Especially in debate. You have to imagine they have an answer for everything you say.
I don't think that Biden nor the Obama team is underestimating her, but I do believe that some people are severely overestimating Palin's capability on a national issues level. If she were in a debate with Biden focused on Alaskan issues, she would be fine, I'm sure. Too bad for her that she jumped out of that small pond and into the open sea with Joey the Shark. A lot of what will save her will simply be the debate format, which seems to keep direct debate between the two to a minimum. A lot of what will fuck her up will be the kind of questioning offered up by the moderator and how well Biden takes his shots.
 
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