Support NeoGAF

[border]

That's because they're making the same game as consoles for most of the aaa software that we see. By continuing to perpetuate dual analog pads as the go-to for shooters, you're relegating level and enemy design, among other things, to yet another generation of stagnation. Move was a good thing. It should have been bundled.

Except there was a time not so long ago when PC had many exclusive FPS games, and their level design and enemy placement was nothing special compared to today either.

People want big dumb shooters to play with friends. Even if you have a more sensitive and faster input device, that will not change. Consumer taste dictates game design more than technology in this instance.

 

[Kyon]

Developers had over 3 years to experiment with Kinect or other motion controls now and we´re still waiting for the first meaningful experience.
Yet Kinect has proven over and over again that it´s completely worthless for anything that goes beyond primitive dance/fidget games.

its also laggy as hell. Did you see the demo of the new one? still laggy and it took like 3 seconds for the snap feature to work for the lady on the show floor

 

[semiconscious]

Why does the article seem so negative?

maybe because a number of his podcast/article appearances are all connected to something called 'tech fetish'? ...

 

[Mifune]

It's a solid move for Sony right now, but it's definitely a move that lacks foresight. Personally speaking, I'd value the viability of a game altering peripheral such as the PS Eye and Kinect over short term entry cost. The latter can be fixed at any point in the generation while the former is a move set in stone for the entirety of the generation.

These camera accessories have been around long enough that I think we can safely say they're not game altering. Sure the new cameras might have higher resolution or the ability to read your heart rate, but the core of this technology has been around for years and years, and it has yet to produce one killer application.

 

[zroid]

i am ok with this

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Wise decision now, wise decision in the long run who knows. We'll have to see what software comes from having kinect in the box on day 1.

Price drops but a add is always a add on.

I'm sure Sony will bundle the camera in the future at $399 when the console drops in price. It seems like an obvious move.

 

[Cimarron]

Dumb decision. I am amused by often gamered sqawk about wanting new experiences and inovations yet frown on brand new tech. Sink or swim I am glad m$ made the decision ro include kinect. Now all i need to see is some good games. I would have rather had occulus rift included instead though.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I think a lot of people aren't thinking forwards in here. Sure it's nice that they saved us all $100, but this also basically means the new camera will never amount to anything. Including it with every system allows developers to put more to developing uses for it and makes it flourish. Now who is going to buy the Eye?

I think MS actually did right in adding Kinect 2 to every system, regardless of the price increase. It ensures there will be development for it that is much more than the development for Kinect 1, as it was not included. Every Xbox has one now.

I guess it will be interesting to see how then generation shapes up.

 

[KAL2006]

Hey now, naysayers, as soon as a good light gun game is made for Move+new Eyetoy it'll be worth the bundle price! Maybe I'll even try KZ3 or other supported Move games, but first I have to get a Move. If MM brings a game with 3d sculpting, I'll get it no questions asked.

I won't shed a single tear about the lost pack-in, though.



The packed-in, guarenteed to be there Kinect didn't even get Ryse, after all.

Exactly, Kinect will again be relegated to Dance, Fitness, Mini Games, Sports and etc. at most we could get a hardcore on rails game. These types of games we would've got regardless if Kinect was bundled or not. The tacked on Kinect features for traditional games, turn me off. And look even a exclusive like Ryse makes shitty use of Kinect, and you expect multiplatform games to make good use of Kinect when they have to release on cameraless systems. Let's mbe honest, Kinect is a marketing gimmick, vouce commands like your in the future, track your movements and etc sounds good for a marketing campaign. Of course people who like Motion games (sports, mini games, dance and etc) will like Kinect, but really it should have been optional for those types of people.

Please someone, challenge me, the people who say there is no foresight of not bundling a camera

 

[StuBurns]

This is what I'm saying. Like 100% what I'm saying. Why is it nobody else sees this?

Because it's pure speculation.

You can't possibly know the 'advantage' of a packed in camera will have a greater long term impact than not including it. Not including it has advantages beyond separating MS from Sony in public perception and providing a cheaper console, it also means Vita remote play support is stronger, something which could easily inspire better Vita sales, bringing Vita into the realm of viability is a significant reward.

No one knows if this was a good call or not, it's impossible to know.

 

[Raistlin]

I think this was pretty obvious. They were completely reactionary to Microsoft in their conference. This is a great move though - it's good for consumers.

irony

 

[The Elite]

Even if the camera was packed in the PS4 would be less and still significantly more powerful on top of it. I'm glad it isn't packed in.

The PS4 would have been the same price as the Xbone with the camera packed in. They were going to charge $499.

 

[PerZona]

Very good move by Sony. Not much of a sacrifice if you ask me!

 

[schwabdizzle]

Is there any hope that preorder figures for the Xbone be so low that Microsoft does a 180° on Kinect too?

I think we will know in the next few weeks.

 

[maltrain]

Good for Sony, good for those who didn't want it. Sucks for me though.

Sucks why? Go and buy a camera for 59,99. Everybody win.

 

[Marleyman]

It's crazy how they haven't yet showed any reason why it was necessary to have the camera bundled gaming wise.

They should have bundled in Kinect Rivals to showcase it; no clue why they didn't.

 

[Appleman]

While I don't agree with all the bs Microsoft were spouting, holy hell people fucking EVOLVE. All we know the camera could have been the absolute shit, now it's going to just be absolute shit. You people are fucking stagnant as fuck. I love the controller just as much as you but dammit new experiences aren't always a bad thing. So Damn close minded on this site sometimes. Fuck.

I couldn't tell if this post was sarcastic, but I actually totally agree. People are the WORST about new experiences like this. Making things like this mandatory is what allows progress, without it it's just the same old shit we've been playing for years. I'm not even a huge fan of the motion control implementations we've seen so far, but you'd have to be completely ignorant to not think there's some potential value for some cool stuff to be done.

I don't understand how 90% of the people posting can claim "I hate motion controls". Maybe you don't wholeheartedly like what the tech has been used for so far (although anyone playing FPSs with Wii/Move knows), but there's some staggering potential for some really cool stuff. But if the camera is only optional, I'd be very surprised if it gets supported to the extent that it needs to be.

I do agree that even with the bundled Kinect MS seems short on ideas for how to use it, and I think they should have further developed some concepts to show people what the potential is. It's kind of the same with the Wii U. The GamePad is actually really cool, but they need to show everyone some examples of what it can do, and Nintendoland isn't enough if the rest of the first party games omit it.

 

[Canis lupus]

Good, the PS4 was not built around the camera.

 

[RadarScope1]

Good move by Sony IMO.

This brings up a question that I considered starting a thread about: What kind of game should Sony release as a bundle with the camera to encourage adoption? I'll admit I'd kind of like to get the camera later if these are some good games for it. The tech demo from E3 showed it has a lot of promise, but for what?

 

[Somnid]

These camera accessories have been around long enough that I think we can safely say they're not game altering. Sure the new cameras might have higher resolution or the ability to read your heart rate, but the core of this technology has been around for years and years, and it has yet to produce one killer application.

Hardly. Even last gen systems were bottlenecked by image processing so there's certainly a lot more that can be done. But also this is chicken -> egg, those camera weren't standard so few devs used them so it's not surprising to see that little effort was put into them.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Win/win for consumers.
Cheaper console, if they want the camera it's $60.

Devs...well not so much. Then again, the onus is on them to deliver a killer app that makes the camera feel like an essential purchase.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Nobody will ever buy software with this decision because they won't buy the camera which means there won't be support so nobody will buy the camera. It's death for the damn camera.

Like I said I see why it was a good decision, but it makes me sad for the future of any significant camera support. I.e move.

This is what I'm saying. Like 100% what I'm saying. Why is it nobody else sees this?

I think you're correct; however one consideration is the bundle at launch won't necessarily reflect the SKU bundles available later on. The issue I think is whether the technology is sufficient for something really compelling. Giving everyone the hardware won't matter if the software will all be junk because of limitations in how it works,

 

[PerZona]

Good move by Sony IMO.

This brings up a question that I considered starting a thread about: What kind of game should Sony release as a bundle with the camera to encourage adoption? I'll admit I'd kind of like to get the camera later if these are some good games for it. The tech demo from E3 showed it has a lot of promise, but for what?

Probably some card games or EyePet v2.0 lol

 

[Kyon]

I think a lot of people aren't thinking forwards in here. Sure it's nice that they saved us all $100, but this also basically means the new camera will never amount to anything. Including it with every system allows developers to put more to developing uses for it and makes it flourish. Now who is going to buy the Eye?

I think MS actually did right in adding Kinect 2 to every system, regardless of the price increase. It ensures there will be development for it that is much more than the development for Kinect 1, as it was not included. Every Xbox has one now.

I guess it will be interesting to see how then generation shapes up.

no one will buy software for it. Time and time again these gimmicks never amount to anything

 

[la flama blanca]

They should have bundled in Kinect Rivals to showcase it; no clue why they didn't.

At least digitally, or if any previous Kinect game titles are compatible, have all of those available for free day one. Their E3 showing was pretty hardcore focused so maybe they avoided showing anything that would have people yelling "CASUAL" at them.

 

[Bgamer90]

They should have bundled in Kinect Rivals to showcase it; no clue why they didn't.

Probably will in the future. Right now they are obviously going for hardcore early console buyers; since many of them don't care about motion controls they only kept the kinect features to what the Xbox dashboard could do at their conference.

Hardcore early console buyers don't make up the majority of people who buy games throughout a gen so yeah, I can definitely see some future SKUs with bundled motion games -- possibly for both the Xbox One and PS4 (with the latter having a camera packed in with certain SKUs).

 

[JJD]

Exactly, Kinect will again be relegated to Dance, Fitness, Mini Games, Sports and etc. at most we could get a hardcore on rails game. These types of games we would've got regardless if Kinect was bundled or not. The tacked on Kinect features for traditional games, turn me off. And look even a exclusive like Ryse makes shitty use of Kinect, and you expect multiplatform games to make good use of Kinect when they have to release on cameraless systems. Let's mbe honest, Kinect is a marketing gimmick, vouce commands like your in the future, track your movements and etc sounds good for a marketing campaign. Of course people who like Motion games (sports, mini games, dance and etc) will like Kinect, but really it should have been optional for those types of people.

Please someone, challenge me, the people who say there is no foresight of not bundling a camera

That is what I'm talking about. Those taked on Kinect features can easily be done/ported to the PS Eye.

If devs. choose to have simple voice and gesture commands on core games they can easily port such features to the PS4, the PS Eye supports those kind of features.

 

[Espada]

I don't care about gimmick features like cameras and motion control. I just want to play games, so if its removal meant a lower entry price? That's a good thing.

 

[monkey666]

The PS4 would have been the same price as the Xbone with the camera packed in. They were going to charge $499.

So Sony is going to sell it for $59.99 on the side, but charge $100 packaged with the system? I am going to have to disagree with you Dr.

 

[Whompa]

I never would have used it. Great foresight on Sony's part.

 

[littlebirdtoldme]

Face the fact, motion gaming has been shit for the most part. Wii, kinect, move left a sour taste in our mouths. It's all shit.

And now even the casuals know. Fool me once..fool me twice, shame on you. The game is up. Wii dropped like a rock.

Come back when you have something that improves things.

 

[border]

Making things like this mandatory is what allows progress, without it it's just the same old shit we've been playing for years. I'm not even a huge fan of the motion control implementations we've seen so far, but you'd have to be completely ignorant to not think there's some potential value for some cool stuff to be done.

2 1/2 years of C-grade Kinect garbage and people still go on and on about its "potential". Even when nothing remotely interesting is being shown or demo'ed.

The tech has resulted in little more than tiresome rehashes of Wii fads, and yet we're supposed to mourn its loss because "without it it's just the same old shit we've been playing for years." I'm a little confused as to how sports minigames and dance/fitness titles don't qualify as "the same old shit" at this point.

 

[Marleyman]

At least digitally, or if any previous Kinect game titles are compatible, have all of those available for free day one. Their E3 showing was pretty hardcore focused so maybe they avoided showing anything that would have people yelling "CASUAL" at them.

Well of course they did; they read the forums, heard the critics after their weak showing from their reveal.

 

[Bsigg12]

Developers had over 3 years to experiment with Kinect or other motion controls now and we´re still waiting for the first meaningful experience.
Yet Kinect has proven over and over again that it´s completely worthless for anything that goes beyond primitive dance/fidget games.

The original Kinect is a shell of what it should have been. It's a weaker, less accurate device that was only useful in situations that required either large movements or speaking. The new one is much, much better. The hardware itself makes a massive difference and the new active IR and high def RGB camera make the new kinect much more appealing. You don't need to be standing in order to implement something like seeing a player lean in a racing game or see their pulse rising in a horror game.

The original Kinect was a good idea with mediocre at best execution. It sold a shit ton though, and through that has allowed Microsoft to refine it to something developers can actually use without basing their entire game around it.

Also, the dashboard features are something I'm looking forward to. Jumping from playing music to a game just by saying it, or suspending my game to watch a movie on Netflix in an instant sounds good to me.

 

[alr1ght]

I think a lot of people aren't thinking forwards in here. Sure it's nice that they saved us all $100, but this also basically means the new camera will never amount to anything.

Some of us think that is a good thing.

 

[StevieP]

I think you're correct; however one consideration is the bundle at launch won't necessarily reflect the SKU bundles available later on. The issue I think is whether the technology is sufficient for something really compelling. Giving everyone the hardware won't matter if the software will all be junk because of limitations in how it works,

If its not mandatory/in every box it's an accessory. If its an accessory... Well it won't really matter if its in future bundles from the perspective of software support. It's simply not in every box.

 

[Kyon]

Im still waiting for that scathing Amir0x dragging of camera gimmicks etc.

Let me perch

 

[Eusis]

2 1/2 years of C-grade Kinect garbage and people still go on and on about its "potential". Even when nothing remotely interesting is being shown or demo'ed.

The tech has resulted in little more than tiresome rehashes of Wii fads, and yet we're supposed to mourn its loss because "without it it's just the same old shit we've been playing for years." I'm a little confused as to how sports minigames and dance/fitness titles don't qualify as "the same old shit" at this point.

On the other hand the Kinect 1 clearly wasn't a refined iteration, maybe the Kinect 2 will have potential.

Buuut I wouldn't be surprised if said potential was still limited, similar to how Skyward Sword did more with the Wii Remote but in the end wasn't too integral really.

 

[Suikoguy]

It just seems really odd to include it when there are two subsets of people.

Those who want motion games, and those who don't want motion games.

The key point being; There is not a considerable amount of overlap between these two groups.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

no one will buy software for it. Time and time again these gimmicks never amount to anything

I don't think you can say that. Kinect 1 was obviously rushed and chopped up (removal of chip) and thus the software suffered, plus when everyone doesn't have one it's more of a risk to actually spend money developing for it. Now that everyone is required to have one and have it plugged in it's less of a risk to take a shot at something awesome. Not to mention it's much more powerful.

You may be right, but I don't think we can know that yet.

 

[Mifune]

2 1/2 years of C-grade Kinect garbage and people still go on and on about its "potential". Even when nothing remotely interesting is being shown or demo'ed.

The tech has resulted in little more than tiresome rehashes of Wii fads, and yet we're supposed to mourn its loss because "without it it's just the same old shit we've been playing for years." I'm a little confused as to how sports minigames and dance/fitness titles don't qualify as "the same old shit" at this point.

I think it's telling that even Microsoft hasn't demonstrated anything on Kinect 2.0 worth a shit.

 

[Snapshot King]

The issue I see with all this camera shit is the argument of

"Well if the camera is included, then devs can use it to its fullest extent to make new gameplay!"

You mean like how despite the past decade of nintendo handhelds having two screens, there's very very little use for both? Same with the WiiU Gamepad? Throw a fucking map on there, or something. How about the 3ds' terrible 3D effects that drive up the cost of the system? How about the Wiis motion controls being used for 95% bullshit waggle, even from Nintendo games? Shouldnt that have been a path to amazing new game design ideas?

Forcing dumb peripheral gimmicks onto people under the guise of "BUT GAMES MIGHT TAKE SO MUCH ADVANTAGE" is ridiculous.

 

[Marleyman]

Probably will in the future. Right now they are obviously going for hardcore early console buyers; since many of them don't care about motion controls they only kept the kinect features to what the Xbox dashboard could do at their conference.

Hardcore early console buyers don't make up the majority of people who buy games throughout a gen though so yeah, I can definitely see some future SKUs with bundled motion games -- possibly for both the Xbox One and PS4 (with the latter having a camera packed in with certain SKUs).

Well, it is strange to not have a game to showcase the new and improved Kinect. I consider myself a hardcore gamer but I also enjoy playing Kinect games w/ my cousins, wife and family.

 

[kaching]

It's a solid move for Sony right now, but it's definitely a move that lacks foresight. Personally speaking, I'd value the viability of a game altering peripheral such as the PS Eye and Kinect over short term entry cost. The latter can be fixed at any point in the generation while the former is a move set in stone for the entirety of the generation.

Foresight? If this gen proves to be another 6-8 yrs before new hardware is released, there's plenty of time to adjust course and start bundling these accessories for tens of millions of buyers. Worked for MS over the past couple of years, didn't it?

If these camera accessories have inherent "viability as game altering peripherals" then they shouldn't need bundling for their value to be apparent. Unlike gamepads, they won't approach 100% applicability to the software library anytime soon, even with the most dedicated push, so it's better to leave the choice to the consumer.

And there's good news on that count since the PSEye was showing up on preorder lists ahead of several XB One games.

 

[dcx4610]

I'm all for it. I was never compelled to get the original Eye and doubt I'll get this one either.

I hate cameras in general and don't like being filmed or having pictures taken of me. I'm buying a gaming console and a camera should be considered a non-essential accessory.

IGN is overly negative acting like the LED on the controller is worthless now. The original idea for the LED was to have a better way to identify players and add interesting features to gameplays like life bars, pulsing lights, and yes, interaction with the Eye if needed. It's just an LED. It has very little power draw and won't effect the battery anymore than the original red one did on the DS3.

 

[Bgamer90]

Face the fact, motion gaming has been shit for the most part. Wii, kinect, move left a sour taste in our mouths. It's all shit.

And now even the casuals know.

In reply to the bold , the Just Dance series still sells really well.

 

[jaypah]

Sucks why? Go and buy a camera for 59,99. Everybody win.

I already answered that. I absolutely love the Move, especially AR games so I wanted more of them. I figured that more of them would be made if the whole user base had the camera. It's my own selfish desire. I already said it was good for Sony and those who didn't want to pay for it. I'll definitely pick one up and hope that it gets good support.

 

[RoadHazard]

The controller tracking stuff for automatically assigning split-screen halves to each player, etc, does seem sort of cool, but at the end of the day it's just a nifty bonus feature and nothing even remotely essential. I'm glad they made it optional and made the console cheaper to buy.

 

[la flama blanca]

Well of course they did; they read the forums, heard the critics after their weak showing from their reveal.

I think they should have shown some casual stuff though. It was good they had a better games showing than Sony, but because their system has such a wide range of features, their presentations and messaging have been so fragmented. An all in one device should be showing everything all at once to really push that "it does everything" marketing effort.

 

[StuBurns]

I think it's telling that even Microsoft hasn't demonstrated anything on Kinect 2.0 worth a shit.

They've built the UI around it, they don't need to 'sell' it to people, if you want an XBO, tough shit, you get a Kinect with it.

I still hope they bail on it, I know people don't think they will, but I think it's possible.